I use them *exactly* like that, the few times I go fade. I don't have the fade skill that I see other people exhibit, but as you just pointed out, there are several other ways to play it.
Out of all the aliens the fade is the one you see the least of, so I guess it really is "underused".
Well I'm not skilled with the fade, so what I do is
Get Adren Get Cara
Blink into your three LMGs - swipe one until he's dead or you're halfway there. Tap blink out, zigzag crouch fly style. The dead one ain't coming back, and if he's half dead then they usually stand still.
Which keeps me happy - marine expansion slowed. Shotties are a different matter, as has been said already. With a shotty you're lucky to get in any swipes against an average opponent. But just blinking around them will slow them down.
Generally the key to the fade ambush is picking a good ambush point. Blinking down a long corridor to expectant marines is a bad idea unless you're exceptionally good. I tend to lurk near short choppy corridors that allow a quick escape (once you pass two corner, you're out of LOS and can outrun any pursuers).
As I have said before, I don't claim to be a good Fade but strongly believe I will become one with a little practice. Thus, my opinions are, admittedly, formed from foresight of something that <i>might</i> never happen, not someone who has actually tested these methods extensively and has thus proven their effectiveness. Nonetheless...
Firstly: I believe (though haven't been of opportunity to so test) that the Fade can tug the same psychological strings as does the hit-and-run method by circle-strafing tightly-bunched Marines.
This sounds ridiculous, I know. I AM being hypothetical here, but let's set up an example:
You, the Fade (of two hives) are upgraded thus: Regeneration and Silence. Your reactions to such a suggestion are predictable enough, but think about it: Regeneration allows you to heal inside a battle (Metabolise doesn't), and if this is done properly, you won't get hit very much, despite the pseudo-in-your-face nature of your attack. Also, Carapace slows you down (to be final on this point, for those who are uncertain: it slows down walking/running but, from my admittedly limited experience, not Blink), which, given you won't be Blinking very much if at all once you actually reach your targets, is unacceptable, as the mobility is necessary. Why Silence?
Perhaps the hardest thing to learn about the Fade isn't how to control it, but to be able to judge what you can, can't, and should do in any given situation with great speed. Clarity of mind is essential for a Fade. As it is for Marines who face it.
Silence will serve to create great confusion in a bunch of Marines with a Fade running in and around it. If you are adept at making random but not counterproductive movements in a psychologically stressful situation to make yourself very unpredictable, you can greatly disorientate such a Marine bunch even without Silence; with it, disorientated Marines' <i>only</i> cue as to where you actually are would be the sounds of you hitting other members of the group, and the sounds made when their comrades die.* It is easy to imagine the overall chaotic effect created. All you have to do is move unpredictably through and around the group, choosing targets and slashing them a few times. You might even get one or two kills if the group is one of HA, though that is perhaps stretching reality.
*The minimap is not a consideration, as one would require superhuman clarity of mind to look at and retrieve meaningful information from the minimap in such a psychologically stressful situation.
The only consideration here is from where you launch your attack. If you are already in a position to ambush, ambush. If you are in front of them, just Blink over their heads and you've already started to sap their all-important clarity of mind.
I look forward to testing this myself...
As this idea is somewhat... unconventional, shall we say, I am expecting criticism whether I would like it or not, and thus welcome any as long as it's constructive.
And for you "uber-leet" Fades out there - kindly give this idea a shot and see how it turns out.
So the general thing from what I've read is that fades can't handle 2 or 3 marines, which I fully agree with. They however can be more usefull in outpost attacking (no marines present), from what I've read, in which I agree with again.
<!--QuoteBegin--Jigga_what?!+Sep 9 2003, 02:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jigga_what?! @ Sep 9 2003, 02:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> hmm, chortle, I wish you could explain more, again, I'm not trying to say fades suck, I'm trying to figure out how you can kill a small group of marines. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> OK i'll bite.
I'm the current dedicated fade in our clan alien strat, that is to say i fade immediately as i hit 50 resources. The fade at this point in the game effectively does several things: Defends the 2nd (building) hive against just about anything. Takes map control. Deals with any electrified nodes if the opposite team actually decided to use electricity (rare in clan matches). And in some cases, can simply win the game outright.
I'm going to take a stab at describing how most people here believe fade is played, tell me if i'm close:
Fade takes an upgrade combination such as carapace and adrenaline, or carapace and celerity. Fade blinks directly towards marine group to close the distance. Fade then runs around the marines on the ground slashing away. When fade's health gets near critical, fade blinks off. Fade heals with meta and comes back to repeat the process later.
This is what i'd expect from most of the people here who believe the fade to be weak. And this is, in my opinion, a very ineffective way to play the fade. It's ineffective for several reasons, for a start, you're spending far too much time in melee range.
The fade is a melee fighter, it only deals damage at point blank, but... It deals damage in large chunks at a time. And it only takes 2 or 3 hits to down a LA. Slashing 3 times as a fade takes just under 2 seconds, but this does not mean you should ever spend a full 2 seconds at melee range onto any marine that isnt reloading. To be more accurate, 3 slashes only require you to be at melee range for 3 brief instances, the time you spend at melee range inbetween each slash is wasted and pointless.
Considering every marine weapon barring the pistol deals considerably more damage when up close, melee range is not a range you want to be wasting time in. If you blink next to a marine, and your blink is aimed correctly, you'll land 1 slash immediately as you fly in with your blink, this slash is fast, and as a fade moving in at that speed you are very hard to hit. The mistake people make at this point is then committing themselves to finish off that marine immediately. Once you come out of blink, and are on the floor running after the marine, you are a large, slow moving target that is relatively easy to avoid and very easy to hit, you're also at a range where you are taking maximum damage from the marine weapons. Attempting to run after marines and slash them at this point is simply stupid. You've landed a fast clean slash as you blinked in, and up untill the point you come out of that blink, you've taken minimal damage, so... why not do it again?
No fade should ever be standing around in direct line of fire once a marine has got its aim centered on the fade - even if you're running after the marine trying to slash it. When you blink in you give yourself the best possible opportunity to land a slash and minimise damage to yourself, after the blink, if you land behind the marine you perhaps buy yourself another slash on the floor, but as soon as that marine gets its aim centered and is firing straight into you, get out of there. Waiting in this range for your health to go critical is innefficient, it will force you to spend a long time regenerating. If you blink out the moment the marine gets his bearings, you take very little damage, and you can blink straight back in again, get another fast slash as the marine tries to lock onto you, and then get out again.
In out in out in out. Don't wait for your health to go critical, or you wont be able to come straight back in again. Your 'out' doesn't have to be out of the room, it just has to be out of melee range, because against a blinking fade at long range, marine weapons do little or nothing. It also doesn't have to be 'out' horizontally, in a large room the best place to blink to is straight up in the air. By constantly moving in and out like this, you spend little or no time on the floor in a marine's sights, you waste an awful lot of their bullets as you spend most of your time moving quickly at range, and you draw the fight out. The last one is important because the most effective upgrade to take for this type of fading is regeneration.
While blinking in and out, you only take serious damage in the brief moments you spend at slash range. With this technique, fights are long and the damage dealt on you while you're not close up in minimal, the benefit of regen in this situation is absolutely massive. As well as its in-fight application, regen allows you to blink around the map while you heal, which you cannot do if you rely on meta for healing. With regen, and using this technique of blinking in and out, never dropping to critical health, you are able to control large areas of the map at once with almost no down-time. When you engage a marine group, even when not point blank onto them, you are a constant threat. Simply by blinking around at range, you can waste full clips of ammo and take no damage that isnt instantly healed with regen, and you are capable of striking that marine team any time you want, which means they cannot afford to ignore you.
Because of these properties, this style of fading is even effective against HA's. Provided your blinking is controlled well, and you do not take multiple shotgun blasts at once, you can provide an ongoing threat to a HA team by blinking around them. Blinking in occasionally to get 1 slash or 2, and then blinking out. This is exactly the style of fighting that craps on HA's, because HAs are easily tied up in a cycle of welding and reloading. A drawn out attack such as this, with a little help, can beat HAs using nothing more than 1 fade and a bunch of frequently spawning skulks.
Now, the next obvious question is how exactly you can blink in out and around the room without immediately running out of energy. Alot of people have got the hang of blinking properly now, but its clear from posts that some people are still trying to use it by looking forwards, holding down the button and sliding across the floor. I'll paste my reply to an earlier thread that got locked before my post went through:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That's because you're using it wrong. pressing fire with blink gives you an instant speed boost in which ever direction you point it, since the acceleration is instant there is no need to hold the key down to gain speed while blinking. If you can avoid the floor friction, all you need to get you up to full blink speed is 1 brief tap of the blink key, which costs you practically zero energy. Because you're trying to avoid friction with the floor, what you want to be doing is jumping when you blink.
The technique is as follows: move forward and jump, aim slightly above horizontal and tap blink once, very breifly. When you hit the floor, bunnyhop, and on the way up from the bunnyhop tap blink again slightly above the horizontal. You just travelled about 20m at full blink speed for the cost of effectively 0 energy. To use this properly you need to be able to use HL's air control to turn yourself in the air.
As for slashing as you come out of the blink, remember this: There is no weapon switch delay for any of the fade's weapons, period. The animation for the fade's claws are delayed because of the weapon switching animation, but this has no effect on your ability to slash. Just because you don't see claws swinging doesn't mean you aren't dealing any damage. Standing point blank onto a marine, blinking past him and instantly as you begin the blink, switching to slash while still holding the button down as you slide past WILL score a hit. And no one will see any claws being swung.
Because the only weapons you need to use are blink and slash, slash needing only a slither of energy and blink having no minimum energy usage so it effectively works off any energy you have... The amount of energy in your bar when playing fade is almost meaningless, the regeneration rate of the energy is far more important. In the time it takes you to switch from a slash into a blink, even without adrenaline, you will have regenerated SOME energy, even it is only a pixel's worth of the bar. Since the acceleration from blink is near instant, this pixel's worth of energy, when used in a jump, is enough to escape a fight. Which is why blink fade can be effective even without adrenaline. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Despite that, adrenaline is my movement upgrade of choice, while fade is still effective without it, you sometimes find yourself unable to slash as you come out of a blink, which forces you to blink off again with no damage done, and is a little annoying. Your ground speed when playing fade in this way is almost irrelevant, as 90% of your hits are going to be done as you fly at someone with blink, and are in mid air moving at full blink speed when you make the slash. Any ground slashes are going to be made when you have a clear shot on someone who isnt targetting you. For example if you land behind someone, or catch them reloading. (Alternatively if you're against a lone LA, you can sometimes just charge him and finish it quickly, he wont kill you, and although you'll take quite a bit of damage, it wont matter if he's alone).
Obviously, its alot easier to say it in a forum post than to do it in a game, you absolutely must have tight control over yourself in the air, or you will not be effective. Anyone who bunnyhops regularly has something of a headstart here, as the air control you need to develop to hop well is exactly what you need to control your blink properly. If you've no experience with more advanced movement techniques then the learning curve is quite steep, however, in the case of the fade, the payoff is great. You can make comments to the effect of 'well if you're good enough to play the fade well you'd be really good with any class' - truthfully, the fade has far greater potential. Of course, if you can't fade well, and try running on the ground after LAs with shotguns you're going to get royally owned, but thats life.
This style of fading, done well, takes groups of marines at once and can deal with multiple shotgunners, jetpackers, or with assistance even HAs. I'm currently at work but i'll probably get a quick pub demo for you once i get home, and stick it on here.
Although it is about Clan Games most of it is applicable if not more so to Pubs.
The 'long fight' tactic is something I have not thought about before but sounds good. It's important to notice that killing people is not the main aim of this combat. Hurting and stopping expansion is enough. I can easily imagine that tactic causing 25 med packs to go down after which the fade has done its job. Then there is the added bonuf of holding up the marines for 1-2 minutes before requiring a heal.
The have two other points: 2.01d is balanced on pubs because very few people go early fade. Aliens still dominate clan games because Fades are used well. Once people learn to Fade marines will be begging for a cost increase/nerf.
However in clan games Fades are <i>slightly</i> better. 6v6 rather than 10v10 means Fades arrive quicker and will generally have smaller groups to deal with.
Thank you, TeoH, for describing the other, more practical combat method of the Fade, which I had envisaged from the start. Your lengthy description of air-Blinking in combat is what I meant when, originally (a bit of a while ago), I proposed "flying around, playing with your prey". And the Blink-jumping method adds to the flavour because with it, you don't need Adrenaline (allowing for Celerity, if you're not going to Blink that much once you're in combat, or Silence for the psychological effect, such as in the technique I posted above).
I also agree that there are many viable methods of Fading other than the boring hit-once-and-run-500m technique that most have, in their minds, fixed as the one and only true way to Fade. Also that Regeneration is clearly the Fade Defense upgrade of choice. (In fact, I think that Regeneration is <i>everyone's</i> Defense upgrade of choice, except perhaps Redemption for the dedicated battle/frontline builder Gorge with Celerity).
In fact, our ideas of Fading seem to have a lot in common. This is going to be interesting... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
wow... thanks teoh, it's given me a little to think about and hopefully it might stop people complaining so much =3
I'm not too bad for chasing marines on foot though I <b>am</b> really guilty of making sure I get the kill before blinking out again rather than slowly shredding them blink by blink ^^; Maybe some sort of fade guide like this could be put in the 'new players' section? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Great post Teoh. Never thought of it that way. If people start mastering this new combat method.. myself included.. id say fades are worth that 50 res. <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> .;.;.'.;';'`' <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> <Haha Umiss
Another thank you, I can definetaly see this is a viable strategy. I agree with you in one area more than any other.
You mention that you shouldn't wait till low health to 'jet'. I can't stress this enough, I have said before and will say again, fades are not tanks, they do not have a lot of health.
Once again though, even with this strategy, say I were one of the marines, I would tell with teammates to follow me, and I would at least check the next corridor to see if you were suiting up for another fly by. It seems that you would definetaly annoy and distract a marine group, but if it were important, the comm would drop a health pack every now and then. I would just keep moving on... but you would accomplish your goal in slowing down, or impeding the marine advance... so yeah, once again, I can see you have a great fade strategy that I would finally agree the fade is worth that 50 res!
Another point that Kid-A made that I also thought was great, is the whole thing about having less people. You do get fade faster, and marines probably wouldn't have teched as fast... so you would have more of an advantage in clan matches. (That was some really good think Kid-A, props to ya!)
Once again, thank you TeoH for explaining a great way to attack as a fade.
ok. i dont play fade now as much. the old blink ( i think that was the name?) was soo awesome where you just like teleported. i was like bam, there *swipe* *swipe* c4t says :pwnd!!!11111
The old blink was definatly.. better for ziping in and out.. But it was to unstable.. i dont know how many times i died because id get stuck blinking. But there is an advantage to this new blink.. marines waist half or all of there clip trying to get you WHILE your blinking. Which is funny and helpful
Wow, talk about a post <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->... so that's how people manage to rip up marines so efectively as fade, didnt know they had no weapon switch time, *heads off to go practice*
And yes, a fade at the correct moment in the game can turn the tide, you just have to be good, and know when and where to strike
After a bit of practising I used Teoh's method well.
It is pure H4X! Takes a while to get used to it though.
Because blink stops turret tracking you can stay in a turret farmed area pretty much indefinately if you have adren and regen. If not you need the leave every 2-3 mins.
The only thing I don't like is that is is less effective in smaller areas (usually aliens weaker areas) but then I just use the 'conventional hit and run'.
Even 5 marines have big problems. After about 20 secs of blinking around them they have little ammo and are all spread out (closely packed rines pwn fades). Then hit them while reloading, just blink in, swipe and blink out if it didnt connect STILL blink out you'll have plenty of other chances <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I had a go too but I swapped adren for silence for the first time just to see what it was like... OMG!!! o.O
I was blinking about when I came across 3 marines setting up an RT and TF, I blinked in and gutted 1 without a sound then started hacking at the 2nd one before they even knew I was there and the blink/hit/blinking started XD
I was even pulling massive damage on groups of HAs and causing incredible dmg at their base; without the loud noise blink makes they were completely lost lol
I love silence now <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Geminosity+Sep 12 2003, 03:58 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Geminosity @ Sep 12 2003, 03:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I had a go too but I swapped adren for silence for the first time just to see what it was like... OMG!!! o.O
I was blinking about when I came across 3 marines setting up an RT and TF, I blinked in and gutted 1 without a sound then started hacking at the 2nd one before they even knew I was there and the blink/hit/blinking started XD
I was even pulling massive damage on groups of HAs and causing incredible dmg at their base; without the loud noise blink makes they were completely lost lol
I love silence now <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, psychological impact wins again. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Silence is clearly the Fade's Movement upgrade of choice. Not only is it the Movement upgrade that best suits the Fade's role, it actually does that properly. It was always going to be good <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Silence is good when combined with regen - you dont waste your energy on metabolism and can save it for blink slash.
Adren and cara is good against tougher marines - you can afford to take a bit more damage and you can spam blink, swipe and acid rocket while still having energy enough to blink away and spam meta.
Adren is certainly your choice late game, when you'll end up spamming acid rocket to clear mines.
I would just like to post a reply addressing the complaint on why Regen and Meta dont stack. Actually, they do. All you have to do is wait for the *bloop* signalling Regen working, immediately after that bloop, use meta. Then, wait for another Regen bloop and use meta. Rinse and repeat. Basically, if you just hold down Meta, Regen will not work but if you time it right, you CAN heal about 40 health per sec or so. Saves alot of time too <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I tryed teoh's strat. But the commander kept droping meds on the group.. i was effectivly denting there Light Armor. =( So i finaly went back to my 'tank' method. And suprisingly i got 2 of the 4 befor i had to take off to heal. So i guess even if the comm drops medpacks it wont always be for the best.. 8 medpacks = -8 res 2 respawns = -2 res
i couldnt disagree more. I think adrenaline is the single most important fade upgrade. With more adrenaline, they can blink more often- which means you become ultra-manuverable. Picking silence isnt consistent with the fade doctrine. The new fade is a "fast heavy assault striker" lol if there is such a thing. He is designed to go in, get some kills, and get out. Therefore, adrenaline is essential.
I don't think adren or silence is essential, they just assist in different ways =P
I find I become even <b>more</b> effective with silence than adren but that's because I'm pretty precise with my blinks and slashes so there's little wasted energy... I've yet to be in a situation where I didn't have enough energy to blink away.
The 'essential' upgrades depend on the player, not just the class =3
<!--QuoteBegin--Ashkajioni+Sep 12 2003, 12:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ashkajioni @ Sep 12 2003, 12:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 2 respawns = -2 res <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's an old myth. Respawning doesn't cost res in either tournament mode or casual mode.
It did a long time ago before release, but it was taken out.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think adrenaline is the single most important fade upgrade. With more adrenaline, they can blink more often- which means you become ultra-manuverable. Picking silence isnt consistent with the fade doctrine. The new fade is a "fast heavy assault striker" lol if there is such a thing. He is designed to go in, get some kills, and get out. Therefore, adrenaline is essential. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I tend to take either silence or celerity now. Controlling your blinking so you don't need to use all your energy really negates the need for adrenaline. It's convenient when you have to metabolize a lot or when you're beating down a RT, but it's not really necessary. Silence may not fit the concept of a fast heavy assault striker, but it does fit the concept of hit and run. Since Fades are noisy, don't take fall damage, and are fast, you can set up some interesting attack opportunities. Dropping out of the rafters on powersilo is always fun.
Adrenaline does have its uses, but it's not as necessary as some might think.
I didnt have time to read much past the first page, but heres the way i see fades.
2.0 fade is to 1.04 fade as 1.04 shoty is to 2.0 shoty
for those who dont get the analigy, its the skill curve. in 1.04 a good shotguner could single handedly decimate almost any number of skulks and gorges, generaly handle 1-2 lerks, was suprisingly efective against fades, and can usaly majorly injure an onos (kill em with a freind or 2), yet a bad one would normaly get bit before the second skulk dies. in 2.0 the damage had a slight drop, but the rof uped, most people can use them well now, you still have the shotgun people who truely preach "Respect the Shotty" but most people think they got the faith.
fades are now the invers. in 1.04 anyone could use a fade efectivly, they weren't even a little dificult, and put on some redemtion and the fade was almost invulnerable. Now though fades are different, in the hands of most they fall terribly short of their pricetag like the old shotty (this inculdes me, for some reason i could never us fade claws well). However in the hands of a few, very skilled people, they can single handedly stop your teams expansion. I have seen 3 such fades, one used a script to slash and blink at the same time, the other 2 didnt. They would be in and out and someone would be dead. It was scary to say the least. And it wasnt like the marines sucked either, I am a minor bad ****, and there were at least 2 others whom i new to be decent+ on the team each time. In the right hands a fade is probly more leathal against marines than an ohno.
I just watched the sYn vs HAM demo and just like the other top clan demo's, fades win the game. Nobody ever went onos. I've also been playing fade alot lately and I'd rather have regen at first hive with fade. Adren isn't needed, you can always blink if you dont hold the button down. It just takes a tap to work. Also, since I've been playing fade I have taken down every HA lone rambo I've met(all three) in the halls of eclipse and tanith. But, on the flip side I have had 2 lone rambo's in light armor take me out, one with shotty and one with hmg. So it all depends on skill anyways.
<!--QuoteBegin--AIRinc.F|aReZ+Sep 12 2003, 09:36 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AIRinc.F|aReZ @ Sep 12 2003, 09:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I would just like to post a reply addressing the complaint on why Regen and Meta dont stack. Actually, they do. All you have to do is wait for the *bloop* signalling Regen working, immediately after that bloop, use meta. Then, wait for another Regen bloop and use meta. Rinse and repeat. Basically, if you just hold down Meta, Regen will not work but if you time it right, you CAN heal about 40 health per sec or so. Saves alot of time too <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> post a demo
b/c yeah, you can stack, it just takes a lot more effort and isn't faster at all
so demonstrate what you're talking about.
If you're going to evaluate timing by winging it, you'd better be good.
There is a possibility that you are meta-ing constantly and letting the regen bloop in, but that seems Godly, and, by my feel of things, perhaps impossible. What it seems like you're saying is just what you said <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> which if you actually compare with meta vanilla, isn't faster at all, and instead is much more hassling.
EDIT: If regen heals more than I 'feel' it does or else there is some other way to pull of good stacking then shucks, be happy with regen. I cannot really play at the moment so I can't check for myself <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--IceBaron+Sep 15 2003, 07:40 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (IceBaron @ Sep 15 2003, 07:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I just watched the sYn vs HAM demo and just like the other top clan demo's, fades win the game. Nobody ever went onos. I've also been playing fade alot lately and I'd rather have regen at first hive with fade. Adren isn't needed, you can always blink if you dont hold the button down. It just takes a tap to work. Also, since I've been playing fade I have taken down every HA lone rambo I've met(all three) in the halls of eclipse and tanith. But, on the flip side I have had 2 lone rambo's in light armor take me out, one with shotty and one with hmg. So it all depends on skill anyways. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> did the ha have heavy weaponry?
Actually, doesn't much matter b/c ha rambos are newbies. It may well be that lights who leave base with heavy weapons are skilled.. but then again any random dude can leave base whenever he wants, and with a shotty too <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
adren isn't really needed, true, but helps a lot with meta (which is extremely useful, I feel the need to point out against its detractors)
<!--QuoteBegin--The Finch+Sep 14 2003, 05:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (The Finch @ Sep 14 2003, 05:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Ashkajioni+Sep 12 2003, 12:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ashkajioni @ Sep 12 2003, 12:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 2 respawns = -2 res <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's an old myth. Respawning doesn't cost res in either tournament mode or casual mode.
It did a long time ago before release, but it was taken out.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think adrenaline is the single most important fade upgrade. With more adrenaline, they can blink more often- which means you become ultra-manuverable. Picking silence isnt consistent with the fade doctrine. The new fade is a "fast heavy assault striker" lol if there is such a thing. He is designed to go in, get some kills, and get out. Therefore, adrenaline is essential. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I tend to take either silence or celerity now. Controlling your blinking so you don't need to use all your energy really negates the need for adrenaline. It's convenient when you have to metabolize a lot or when you're beating down a RT, but it's not really necessary. Silence may not fit the concept of a fast heavy assault striker, but it does fit the concept of hit and run. Since Fades are noisy, don't take fall damage, and are fast, you can set up some interesting attack opportunities. Dropping out of the rafters on powersilo is always fun.
Adrenaline does have its uses, but it's not as necessary as some might think. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> yeah silence and celerity help a lot
it's just that there are tradeoffs
also I almost never use carapace b/c of slower speed except maybe with celerity as I find that good marines will try to dance around you and the faster you reach them the faster they are dead and the less random damage you take. Carapace doesn't help THAT much against real heavy damage after all.
You, the Fade (of two hives) are upgraded thus: Regeneration and Silence. Your reactions to such a suggestion are predictable enough, but think about it: Regeneration allows you to heal inside a battle (Metabolise doesn't), and if this is done properly, you won't get hit very much, despite the pseudo-in-your-face nature of your attack.
(etc) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> yes, a good ideal
I originally favored celerity regen fades for the same reason; they are faster, better dancers, harder to hit, and so hopefully have enough time to heal significantly in battle.
I now feel (more recently, rather) better with adren/redemp. Favoring quick hit and run over extended dancing, which needless to say can get you killed. Capitalizing on the fades' unique capabilities, which incidnetally are celerity and regen taken to the extreme. Of course, use whatever you wish.. I just like to oppose cara w/o celerity since unless your marines are standing still or you have special blink/attack setup marines tend be the ones doing the dancing.
sorry to quad post, I tend to read topics in bursts
<!--QuoteBegin--elchinesetourist+Sep 16 2003, 07:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (elchinesetourist @ Sep 16 2003, 07:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> b/c yeah, you can stack, it just takes a lot more effort and isn't faster at all <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Stacking meta and regen works fine, the principle is quite simple:
Regen ticks on a timer, every second it will tick a certain amount of health. For some reason, using metabolize will reset this timer, so whenever you use meta, regen will not tick again untill 1 second after the meta was used. All you have to do, is use meta as quickly as you can after the regen ticks. The timing does not have to be perfect at all, however the closer you get to metabolizing exactly on the regen tick, the better the results. If you meta exactly as regen ticks, regen will then tick again 1 second later, and you will get the benefit of metabolize ontop of regen without slowing down regen at all.
You don't have to time it exactly of course, you just have to get the meta as soon after the regen tick as you can. If you're anywhere close, then you will be regenerating health faster than you could with just metabolize. You will not be 'ticking' as frequently as you would be when just using meta, however you will be healing 40hp a time, it works out quite a bit faster.
Comments
Out of all the aliens the fade is the one you see the least of, so I guess it really is "underused".
Get Adren
Get Cara
Blink into your three LMGs - swipe one until he's dead or you're halfway there. Tap blink out, zigzag crouch fly style. The dead one ain't coming back, and if he's half dead then they usually stand still.
Which keeps me happy - marine expansion slowed. Shotties are a different matter, as has been said already. With a shotty you're lucky to get in any swipes against an average opponent. But just blinking around them will slow them down.
Generally the key to the fade ambush is picking a good ambush point. Blinking down a long corridor to expectant marines is a bad idea unless you're exceptionally good. I tend to lurk near short choppy corridors that allow a quick escape (once you pass two corner, you're out of LOS and can outrun any pursuers).
Firstly: I believe (though haven't been of opportunity to so test) that the Fade can tug the same psychological strings as does the hit-and-run method by circle-strafing tightly-bunched Marines.
This sounds ridiculous, I know. I AM being hypothetical here, but let's set up an example:
You, the Fade (of two hives) are upgraded thus: Regeneration and Silence. Your reactions to such a suggestion are predictable enough, but think about it: Regeneration allows you to heal inside a battle (Metabolise doesn't), and if this is done properly, you won't get hit very much, despite the pseudo-in-your-face nature of your attack. Also, Carapace slows you down (to be final on this point, for those who are uncertain: it slows down walking/running but, from my admittedly limited experience, not Blink), which, given you won't be Blinking very much if at all once you actually reach your targets, is unacceptable, as the mobility is necessary. Why Silence?
Perhaps the hardest thing to learn about the Fade isn't how to control it, but to be able to judge what you can, can't, and should do in any given situation with great speed. Clarity of mind is essential for a Fade.
As it is for Marines who face it.
Silence will serve to create great confusion in a bunch of Marines with a Fade running in and around it. If you are adept at making random but not counterproductive movements in a psychologically stressful situation to make yourself very unpredictable, you can greatly disorientate such a Marine bunch even without Silence; with it, disorientated Marines' <i>only</i> cue as to where you actually are would be the sounds of you hitting other members of the group, and the sounds made when their comrades die.* It is easy to imagine the overall chaotic effect created. All you have to do is move unpredictably through and around the group, choosing targets and slashing them a few times. You might even get one or two kills if the group is one of HA, though that is perhaps stretching reality.
*The minimap is not a consideration, as one would require superhuman clarity of mind to look at and retrieve meaningful information from the minimap in such a psychologically stressful situation.
The only consideration here is from where you launch your attack. If you are already in a position to ambush, ambush. If you are in front of them, just Blink over their heads and you've already started to sap their all-important clarity of mind.
I look forward to testing this myself...
As this idea is somewhat... unconventional, shall we say, I am expecting criticism whether I would like it or not, and thus welcome any as long as it's constructive.
And for you "uber-leet" Fades out there - kindly give this idea a shot and see how it turns out.
OK i'll bite.
I'm the current dedicated fade in our clan alien strat, that is to say i fade immediately as i hit 50 resources. The fade at this point in the game effectively does several things: Defends the 2nd (building) hive against just about anything. Takes map control. Deals with any electrified nodes if the opposite team actually decided to use electricity (rare in clan matches).
And in some cases, can simply win the game outright.
I'm going to take a stab at describing how most people here believe fade is played, tell me if i'm close:
Fade takes an upgrade combination such as carapace and adrenaline, or carapace and celerity.
Fade blinks directly towards marine group to close the distance.
Fade then runs around the marines on the ground slashing away.
When fade's health gets near critical, fade blinks off.
Fade heals with meta and comes back to repeat the process later.
This is what i'd expect from most of the people here who believe the fade to be weak. And this is, in my opinion, a very ineffective way to play the fade. It's ineffective for several reasons, for a start, you're spending far too much time in melee range.
The fade is a melee fighter, it only deals damage at point blank, but... It deals damage in large chunks at a time. And it only takes 2 or 3 hits to down a LA. Slashing 3 times as a fade takes just under 2 seconds, but this does not mean you should ever spend a full 2 seconds at melee range onto any marine that isnt reloading. To be more accurate, 3 slashes only require you to be at melee range for 3 brief instances, the time you spend at melee range inbetween each slash is wasted and pointless.
Considering every marine weapon barring the pistol deals considerably more damage when up close, melee range is not a range you want to be wasting time in. If you blink next to a marine, and your blink is aimed correctly, you'll land 1 slash immediately as you fly in with your blink, this slash is fast, and as a fade moving in at that speed you are very hard to hit. The mistake people make at this point is then committing themselves to finish off that marine immediately. Once you come out of blink, and are on the floor running after the marine, you are a large, slow moving target that is relatively easy to avoid and very easy to hit, you're also at a range where you are taking maximum damage from the marine weapons. Attempting to run after marines and slash them at this point is simply stupid. You've landed a fast clean slash as you blinked in, and up untill the point you come out of that blink, you've taken minimal damage, so... why not do it again?
No fade should ever be standing around in direct line of fire once a marine has got its aim centered on the fade - even if you're running after the marine trying to slash it. When you blink in you give yourself the best possible opportunity to land a slash and minimise damage to yourself, after the blink, if you land behind the marine you perhaps buy yourself another slash on the floor, but as soon as that marine gets its aim centered and is firing straight into you, get out of there. Waiting in this range for your health to go critical is innefficient, it will force you to spend a long time regenerating. If you blink out the moment the marine gets his bearings, you take very little damage, and you can blink straight back in again, get another fast slash as the marine tries to lock onto you, and then get out again.
In out in out in out. Don't wait for your health to go critical, or you wont be able to come straight back in again. Your 'out' doesn't have to be out of the room, it just has to be out of melee range, because against a blinking fade at long range, marine weapons do little or nothing. It also doesn't have to be 'out' horizontally, in a large room the best place to blink to is straight up in the air. By constantly moving in and out like this, you spend little or no time on the floor in a marine's sights, you waste an awful lot of their bullets as you spend most of your time moving quickly at range, and you draw the fight out. The last one is important because the most effective upgrade to take for this type of fading is regeneration.
While blinking in and out, you only take serious damage in the brief moments you spend at slash range. With this technique, fights are long and the damage dealt on you while you're not close up in minimal, the benefit of regen in this situation is absolutely massive. As well as its in-fight application, regen allows you to blink around the map while you heal, which you cannot do if you rely on meta for healing. With regen, and using this technique of blinking in and out, never dropping to critical health, you are able to control large areas of the map at once with almost no down-time. When you engage a marine group, even when not point blank onto them, you are a constant threat. Simply by blinking around at range, you can waste full clips of ammo and take no damage that isnt instantly healed with regen, and you are capable of striking that marine team any time you want, which means they cannot afford to ignore you.
Because of these properties, this style of fading is even effective against HA's. Provided your blinking is controlled well, and you do not take multiple shotgun blasts at once, you can provide an ongoing threat to a HA team by blinking around them. Blinking in occasionally to get 1 slash or 2, and then blinking out. This is exactly the style of fighting that craps on HA's, because HAs are easily tied up in a cycle of welding and reloading. A drawn out attack such as this, with a little help, can beat HAs using nothing more than 1 fade and a bunch of frequently spawning skulks.
Now, the next obvious question is how exactly you can blink in out and around the room without immediately running out of energy. Alot of people have got the hang of blinking properly now, but its clear from posts that some people are still trying to use it by looking forwards, holding down the button and sliding across the floor. I'll paste my reply to an earlier thread that got locked before my post went through:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
That's because you're using it wrong. pressing fire with blink gives you an instant speed boost in which ever direction you point it, since the acceleration is instant there is no need to hold the key down to gain speed while blinking. If you can avoid the floor friction, all you need to get you up to full blink speed is 1 brief tap of the blink key, which costs you practically zero energy. Because you're trying to avoid friction with the floor, what you want to be doing is jumping when you blink.
The technique is as follows: move forward and jump, aim slightly above horizontal and tap blink once, very breifly. When you hit the floor, bunnyhop, and on the way up from the bunnyhop tap blink again slightly above the horizontal. You just travelled about 20m at full blink speed for the cost of effectively 0 energy. To use this properly you need to be able to use HL's air control to turn yourself in the air.
As for slashing as you come out of the blink, remember this: There is no weapon switch delay for any of the fade's weapons, period. The animation for the fade's claws are delayed because of the weapon switching animation, but this has no effect on your ability to slash. Just because you don't see claws swinging doesn't mean you aren't dealing any damage. Standing point blank onto a marine, blinking past him and instantly as you begin the blink, switching to slash while still holding the button down as you slide past WILL score a hit. And no one will see any claws being swung.
Because the only weapons you need to use are blink and slash, slash needing only a slither of energy and blink having no minimum energy usage so it effectively works off any energy you have... The amount of energy in your bar when playing fade is almost meaningless, the regeneration rate of the energy is far more important. In the time it takes you to switch from a slash into a blink, even without adrenaline, you will have regenerated SOME energy, even it is only a pixel's worth of the bar. Since the acceleration from blink is near instant, this pixel's worth of energy, when used in a jump, is enough to escape a fight. Which is why blink fade can be effective even without adrenaline.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Despite that, adrenaline is my movement upgrade of choice, while fade is still effective without it, you sometimes find yourself unable to slash as you come out of a blink, which forces you to blink off again with no damage done, and is a little annoying. Your ground speed when playing fade in this way is almost irrelevant, as 90% of your hits are going to be done as you fly at someone with blink, and are in mid air moving at full blink speed when you make the slash. Any ground slashes are going to be made when you have a clear shot on someone who isnt targetting you. For example if you land behind someone, or catch them reloading. (Alternatively if you're against a lone LA, you can sometimes just charge him and finish it quickly, he wont kill you, and although you'll take quite a bit of damage, it wont matter if he's alone).
Obviously, its alot easier to say it in a forum post than to do it in a game, you absolutely must have tight control over yourself in the air, or you will not be effective. Anyone who bunnyhops regularly has something of a headstart here, as the air control you need to develop to hop well is exactly what you need to control your blink properly. If you've no experience with more advanced movement techniques then the learning curve is quite steep, however, in the case of the fade, the payoff is great. You can make comments to the effect of 'well if you're good enough to play the fade well you'd be really good with any class' - truthfully, the fade has far greater potential. Of course, if you can't fade well, and try running on the ground after LAs with shotguns you're going to get royally owned, but thats life.
This style of fading, done well, takes groups of marines at once and can deal with multiple shotgunners, jetpackers, or with assistance even HAs. I'm currently at work but i'll probably get a quick pub demo for you once i get home, and stick it on here.
Although it is about Clan Games most of it is applicable if not more so to Pubs.
The 'long fight' tactic is something I have not thought about before but sounds good. It's important to notice that killing people is not the main aim of this combat. Hurting and stopping expansion is enough. I can easily imagine that tactic causing 25 med packs to go down after which the fade has done its job. Then there is the added bonuf of holding up the marines for 1-2 minutes before requiring a heal.
The have two other points:
2.01d is balanced on pubs because very few people go early fade. Aliens still dominate clan games because Fades are used well. Once people learn to Fade marines will be begging for a cost increase/nerf.
However in clan games Fades are <i>slightly</i> better. 6v6 rather than 10v10 means Fades arrive quicker and will generally have smaller groups to deal with.
I also agree that there are many viable methods of Fading other than the boring hit-once-and-run-500m technique that most have, in their minds, fixed as the one and only true way to Fade. Also that Regeneration is clearly the Fade Defense upgrade of choice. (In fact, I think that Regeneration is <i>everyone's</i> Defense upgrade of choice, except perhaps Redemption for the dedicated battle/frontline builder Gorge with Celerity).
In fact, our ideas of Fading seem to have a lot in common. This is going to be interesting... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'm not too bad for chasing marines on foot though I <b>am</b> really guilty of making sure I get the kill before blinking out again rather than slowly shredding them blink by blink ^^;
Maybe some sort of fade guide like this could be put in the 'new players' section? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> .;.;.'.;';'`' <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> <Haha Umiss
You mention that you shouldn't wait till low health to 'jet'. I can't stress this enough, I have said before and will say again, fades are not tanks, they do not have a lot of health.
Once again though, even with this strategy, say I were one of the marines, I would tell with teammates to follow me, and I would at least check the next corridor to see if you were suiting up for another fly by. It seems that you would definetaly annoy and distract a marine group, but if it were important, the comm would drop a health pack every now and then. I would just keep moving on... but you would accomplish your goal in slowing down, or impeding the marine advance... so yeah, once again, I can see you have a great fade strategy that I would finally agree the fade is worth that 50 res!
Another point that Kid-A made that I also thought was great, is the whole thing about having less people. You do get fade faster, and marines probably wouldn't have teched as fast... so you would have more of an advantage in clan matches. (That was some really good think Kid-A, props to ya!)
Once again, thank you TeoH for explaining a great way to attack as a fade.
And yes, a fade at the correct moment in the game can turn the tide, you just have to be good, and know when and where to strike
It is pure H4X! Takes a while to get used to it though.
Because blink stops turret tracking you can stay in a turret farmed area pretty much indefinately if you have adren and regen. If not you need the leave every 2-3 mins.
The only thing I don't like is that is is less effective in smaller areas (usually aliens weaker areas) but then I just use the 'conventional hit and run'.
Even 5 marines have big problems. After about 20 secs of blinking around them they have little ammo and are all spread out (closely packed rines pwn fades). Then hit them while reloading, just blink in, swipe and blink out if it didnt connect STILL blink out you'll have plenty of other chances <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I was blinking about when I came across 3 marines setting up an RT and TF, I blinked in and gutted 1 without a sound then started hacking at the 2nd one before they even knew I was there and the blink/hit/blinking started XD
I was even pulling massive damage on groups of HAs and causing incredible dmg at their base; without the loud noise blink makes they were completely lost lol
I love silence now <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I was blinking about when I came across 3 marines setting up an RT and TF, I blinked in and gutted 1 without a sound then started hacking at the 2nd one before they even knew I was there and the blink/hit/blinking started XD
I was even pulling massive damage on groups of HAs and causing incredible dmg at their base; without the loud noise blink makes they were completely lost lol
I love silence now <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, psychological impact wins again. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Silence is clearly the Fade's Movement upgrade of choice. Not only is it the Movement upgrade that best suits the Fade's role, it actually does that properly. It was always going to be good <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Silence is good when combined with regen - you dont waste your energy on metabolism and can save it for blink slash.
Adren and cara is good against tougher marines - you can afford to take a bit more damage and you can spam blink, swipe and acid rocket while still having energy enough to blink away and spam meta.
Adren is certainly your choice late game, when you'll end up spamming acid rocket to clear mines.
8 medpacks = -8 res
2 respawns = -2 res
2 kills = 2+ to 6+ res For Ash-Trey
=D
i couldnt disagree more. I think adrenaline is the single most important fade upgrade. With more adrenaline, they can blink more often- which means you become ultra-manuverable. Picking silence isnt consistent with the fade doctrine. The new fade is a "fast heavy assault striker" lol if there is such a thing. He is designed to go in, get some kills, and get out. Therefore, adrenaline is essential.
I find I become even <b>more</b> effective with silence than adren but that's because I'm pretty precise with my blinks and slashes so there's little wasted energy... I've yet to be in a situation where I didn't have enough energy to blink away.
The 'essential' upgrades depend on the player, not just the class =3
That's an old myth. Respawning doesn't cost res in either tournament mode or casual mode.
It did a long time ago before release, but it was taken out.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think adrenaline is the single most important fade upgrade. With more adrenaline, they can blink more often- which means you become ultra-manuverable. Picking silence isnt consistent with the fade doctrine. The new fade is a "fast heavy assault striker" lol if there is such a thing. He is designed to go in, get some kills, and get out. Therefore, adrenaline is essential. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I tend to take either silence or celerity now. Controlling your blinking so you don't need to use all your energy really negates the need for adrenaline. It's convenient when you have to metabolize a lot or when you're beating down a RT, but it's not really necessary. Silence may not fit the concept of a fast heavy assault striker, but it does fit the concept of hit and run. Since Fades are noisy, don't take fall damage, and are fast, you can set up some interesting attack opportunities. Dropping out of the rafters on powersilo is always fun.
Adrenaline does have its uses, but it's not as necessary as some might think.
2.0 fade is to 1.04 fade as 1.04 shoty is to 2.0 shoty
for those who dont get the analigy, its the skill curve. in 1.04 a good shotguner could single handedly decimate almost any number of skulks and gorges, generaly handle 1-2 lerks, was suprisingly efective against fades, and can usaly majorly injure an onos (kill em with a freind or 2), yet a bad one would normaly get bit before the second skulk dies. in 2.0 the damage had a slight drop, but the rof uped, most people can use them well now, you still have the shotgun people who truely preach "Respect the Shotty" but most people think they got the faith.
fades are now the invers. in 1.04 anyone could use a fade efectivly, they weren't even a little dificult, and put on some redemtion and the fade was almost invulnerable. Now though fades are different, in the hands of most they fall terribly short of their pricetag like the old shotty (this inculdes me, for some reason i could never us fade claws well). However in the hands of a few, very skilled people, they can single handedly stop your teams expansion. I have seen 3 such fades, one used a script to slash and blink at the same time, the other 2 didnt. They would be in and out and someone would be dead. It was scary to say the least. And it wasnt like the marines sucked either, I am a minor bad ****, and there were at least 2 others whom i new to be decent+ on the team each time. In the right hands a fade is probly more leathal against marines than an ohno.
post a demo
b/c yeah, you can stack, it just takes a lot more effort and isn't faster at all
so demonstrate what you're talking about.
If you're going to evaluate timing by winging it, you'd better be good.
There is a possibility that you are meta-ing constantly and letting the regen bloop in, but that seems Godly, and, by my feel of things, perhaps impossible. What it seems like you're saying is just what you said <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> which if you actually compare with meta vanilla, isn't faster at all, and instead is much more hassling.
EDIT: If regen heals more than I 'feel' it does or else there is some other way to pull of good stacking then shucks, be happy with regen. I cannot really play at the moment so I can't check for myself <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
did the ha have heavy weaponry?
Actually, doesn't much matter b/c ha rambos are newbies. It may well be that lights who leave base with heavy weapons are skilled.. but then again any random dude can leave base whenever he wants, and with a shotty too <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
adren isn't really needed, true, but helps a lot with meta (which is extremely useful, I feel the need to point out against its detractors)
That's an old myth. Respawning doesn't cost res in either tournament mode or casual mode.
It did a long time ago before release, but it was taken out.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think adrenaline is the single most important fade upgrade. With more adrenaline, they can blink more often- which means you become ultra-manuverable. Picking silence isnt consistent with the fade doctrine. The new fade is a "fast heavy assault striker" lol if there is such a thing. He is designed to go in, get some kills, and get out. Therefore, adrenaline is essential. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I tend to take either silence or celerity now. Controlling your blinking so you don't need to use all your energy really negates the need for adrenaline. It's convenient when you have to metabolize a lot or when you're beating down a RT, but it's not really necessary. Silence may not fit the concept of a fast heavy assault striker, but it does fit the concept of hit and run. Since Fades are noisy, don't take fall damage, and are fast, you can set up some interesting attack opportunities. Dropping out of the rafters on powersilo is always fun.
Adrenaline does have its uses, but it's not as necessary as some might think. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah silence and celerity help a lot
it's just that there are tradeoffs
also I almost never use carapace b/c of slower speed except maybe with celerity as I find that good marines will try to dance around you and the faster you reach them the faster they are dead and the less random damage you take. Carapace doesn't help THAT much against real heavy damage after all.
You, the Fade (of two hives) are upgraded thus: Regeneration and Silence. Your reactions to such a suggestion are predictable enough, but think about it: Regeneration allows you to heal inside a battle (Metabolise doesn't), and if this is done properly, you won't get hit very much, despite the pseudo-in-your-face nature of your attack.
(etc) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes, a good ideal
I originally favored celerity regen fades for the same reason; they are faster, better dancers, harder to hit, and so hopefully have enough time to heal significantly in battle.
I now feel (more recently, rather) better with adren/redemp. Favoring quick hit and run over extended dancing, which needless to say can get you killed. Capitalizing on the fades' unique capabilities, which incidnetally are celerity and regen taken to the extreme. Of course, use whatever you wish.. I just like to oppose cara w/o celerity since unless your marines are standing still or you have special blink/attack setup marines tend be the ones doing the dancing.
sorry to quad post, I tend to read topics in bursts
Stacking meta and regen works fine, the principle is quite simple:
Regen ticks on a timer, every second it will tick a certain amount of health. For some reason, using metabolize will reset this timer, so whenever you use meta, regen will not tick again untill 1 second after the meta was used. All you have to do, is use meta as quickly as you can after the regen ticks. The timing does not have to be perfect at all, however the closer you get to metabolizing exactly on the regen tick, the better the results. If you meta exactly as regen ticks, regen will then tick again 1 second later, and you will get the benefit of metabolize ontop of regen without slowing down regen at all.
You don't have to time it exactly of course, you just have to get the meta as soon after the regen tick as you can. If you're anywhere close, then you will be regenerating health faster than you could with just metabolize. You will not be 'ticking' as frequently as you would be when just using meta, however you will be healing 40hp a time, it works out quite a bit faster.