Agree with your suggestions Majin, I think with that squad even if an onos showed up you could have dealt with it. The only thing I can think of to counter that is webs. Throw some webs in there while big evos attack, and if you got webs xeno too. 3rd hive counter. :\
Shotties are wicked, wild, fun and combined with HMGs you will start to need exponents to describe the t0t4l 0wn4g3.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 6 2003, 12:16 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 6 2003, 12:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The problem is that the only ranged attacks that are DECENT are hive 3 abilities. So no acid rocket, primal spikes, etc. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm guessing your not that great with spores, then, eh? /me remembers his 9 kills with 1 spore...what a good day.
I don't understand how investing 120 res and god knows how many res in upgrades into 6 marines and then moving through a relatively disorganised alien force to their hive, and taking it down, is lame or unbalanced :/
Really, I love wow this thread has talked about balance issues involving the shotgun without mentioning one the shotgun's weaknesses, reload time. For reloading a full clip, it has the LONGEST reload time of all the marine weapons. Granted, you can fire each shot as you reload, but that nerfs your RoF below the old 1.04 shotgun. I mean, how can you have a thread on shotgun balance without talking about the absolutely unique means of loading that ONLY the shotgun has ...
<!--QuoteBegin--a civilian+Aug 6 2003, 03:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (a civilian @ Aug 6 2003, 03:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Boy Wonder+Aug 6 2003, 04:08 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Boy Wonder @ Aug 6 2003, 04:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Pluss if you do shotgun rush the aliens wouldnt have enough time to evolve into lerks so they are pretty much screwed we went in packs of shotguns... it was unstoppable seriously. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> An alien only needs to gain 5 resource points in order to evolve to Lerk. If they didn't see the rush coming, they didn't scout well enough. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Of course they saw the rush comming we did it successfully 3 times in a row... remember its the beggining of the game... recources come slow and we finished the game in about 2 minutes and they killed just about none of our marines... There was just about no way they could have evolved and if they did they were too late...
<!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 6 2003, 03:02 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 6 2003, 03:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 2) In beta right now, onos can't redeem when eating someone. This makes onos useless vs. HA. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> A first page post that I felt the need to address...
That is ridiculous. Onoses won't be useless vs. HA, Redemption will be. Is it so unheard of for Onoses to start getting Cara or Regen? I always take regen with Onos and I pick apart HA groups on a regular basis.
Anyway, the counter to shotguns is a smart lerk, even at one hive. And have you seen how long it takes shotguns to take down a hive that has umbra? It's pitiful. The counter to HA/Shotguns is the same as the counter to any HAs, Onoses. Of course shotguns can kill them; Onoses die pretty fast to LMG if they run in like tards as many of them still seem to be doing. A combination of ambushing, stomp and devour is extremely effective against any kind of HA.
I think the reason people use shotguns more than HMGs is that shotguns are still capable of eradicating all forms of buildings; a single shotgunner and take out any chamber in seconds and a group of them just devastate a hive. If you have umbra, though, they're basically forced to use GLs to take out a hive. I think there just aren't enough good Lerks as a whole on pub alien teams right now, and hopefully that will change soon.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think there just aren't enough good Lerks as a whole on pub alien teams right now, and hopefully that will change soon. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I absolutely agree. The Lerk is an incredibly underused class that is the Aliens answer in 2.0 for many situations they used to solve with Fades in 1.04. The Lerks combination of offense and defense takes a good while to get the hang of, but it's great once you get it down.
I would also like to suggest that the Onos players who keep getting pwned by shotties try using something besides redemption. It's one of the most overrated abilities in the game right now IMHO. I watched a game with 3 redemption Onoses drag out for a full hour longer than it should have simply because the Onoses didn't have the staying power to finish off the marine base... kept getting redeemed just before finishing off the main structures. It wasn't until they managed to die and came back with a combo of one with Regen and another with Carapace (supported by a Lerk and Gorge respectively) that they were able to finish off the base.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyway, the counter to shotguns is a smart lerk, even at one hive. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <span style='color:yellow'>What about when they Group up and have HA?</span>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And have you seen how long it takes shotguns to take down a hive that has umbra? It's pitiful. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <span style='color:yellow'>It doesn't take all that long when you have 4 or 6 SGs firing at the same time!</span>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The counter to HA/Shotguns is the same as the counter to any HAs, Onoses.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <span style='color:yellow'>The Onos who tryed to stop us was the only player who had enough res to go Onos at that point and even with Umbra we F()><()R his a$$ in only a few shots. </span>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think the reason people use shotguns more than HMGs is that shotguns are still capable of eradicating all forms of buildings; a single shotgunner and take out any chamber in seconds and a group of them just devastate a hive. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <span style='color:yellow'>Thats my point! Dmg vs Structures needs to be lowered for the SG, keep it just as strong vs the ONOS (its still needed to be a counter to redemption) but it needs to be relaxed when going up against a Row of OCS or a HIVE.</span>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you have umbra, though, they're basically forced to use GLs to take out a hive<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <span style='color:yellow'>As I said, 6 SGs can take down a hive in seconds, umbra or no umbra! maybe 20 seconds instead of 4 but still way too fast!</span> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->without mentioning one the shotgun's weaknesses, reload time<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <span style='color:yellow'>What does reload matter if you have 4 ppl with SGs, by the time one person has to reload the problem is already destroyed! And since no one person is ever given a SG and rambos are useless ppl that never get SGs, SGers are always in groups. I normally reload as we move to the next area of attack. </span>
Close range support against lightly armored units. This means lerks and skulks. It has a spread so it's ideal for blasting quick-moving skulks.
Shoot a guy without a kevlar vest with a shotgun. Big **** hole in him. Or lots of little ones.
Shoot a guy with a kevlar vest with a shotgun. He gets knocked on his ****, gets up, and beats your **** in.
What's my point? Armor absorption should suck the energy out of a shotgun. Shotguns should do next to NOTHING to onos, fades, and structures. Onos counter? Make the HMG do more damage vs. the Onos. HMGs are rare to see nowadays.
- Shotguns are cheap. They're easilly accessable early in the game. They should be good vs. early game units. - Skulks are cheap. They're easilly accessable early in the game. They ARE only good vs. early game marines.
So unless the skulk is going to get a 'diamond teeth upgrade' that lets him kill HA in 2 hits, the shotgun is horribly out of place.
HA / Shotgun owns a lvl 2 fade easily. Youjust have to hit them too may times with a fades slash and acid rocket WTH is now 3rd hive ability not thats its much good against HA anyway.
30 res in HA / Shotgun easily beats a fade because the fade is now melee only until 3rd hive and thus get owned by shotgun users because he has to come so close.
And ifny of the marine n00bs out there go "owww but your meant to blink in and slash and run away again" i'll freaking kill them because in a situation where 2 equally skilled players meet HA/SG will beat a fade every time.
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
edited August 2003
<!--QuoteBegin--Majin+Aug 6 2003, 12:55 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Majin @ Aug 6 2003, 12:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you have umbra, though, they're basically forced to use GLs to take out a hive<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> As I said, 6 SGs can take down a hive in seconds, umbra or no umbra! maybe 20 seconds instead of 4 but still way too fast <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hmm.. umbra stops 5 out of 6 shots, making everything take 6 times more shots to kill. A shotgun fires 10 pellets of 17 damage each, making for 170 damage per shot and 1700 damage per clip. 5 seconds to fire the clip, five seconds to reload, so it's 170 damage/sec sustained ... 6000 hits/170 damage comes out at about 35 sec. Six lvl 3 shotties would take down an umbraed hive in about 20-25 seconds.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The Onos who tryed to stop us was the only player who had enough res to go Onos at that point and even with Umbra we F()><()R his a$$ in only a few shots.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So the other day I was playing this game of ns 2.0 on the marine side and we dominated and never let the aliens have any res and we won and I was really surprised I was like where are all the onoses?
It's good to see some freaking teamwork on the aliens once in a while. Aliens require little to no teamwork to win on the basic pub server.
I'm not entirely sure why the devs made the shotgun the way it is, but I like it. If you're getting killed by one man with a shotty.....try setting up......god forbid...an AMBUSH! THE WAY ALIENS WERE MEANT TO BE PLAYED!
<!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 6 2003, 01:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 6 2003, 01:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You know the gun is overpowered when you constantly hear:
"You should counter it by having gorges give lerks support while an onos goes in, and the lerk supports the onos."
<b><i>IT SHOULD NOT TAKE 1/2 THE ALIEN TEAM TO KILL ONE MAN WITH A SHOTGUN</b></i> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Must be a pretty crappy team to require 3-4 people to kill one guy with a shotgun. After all, you can shoot a skulk at close range with a shotgun and it can actually live (2.0 value).
It's good to see some freaking teamwork on the aliens once in a while. Aliens require little to no teamwork to win on the basic pub server.
I'm not entirely sure why the devs made the shotgun the way it is, but I like it. If you're getting killed by one man with a shotty.....try setting up......god forbid...an AMBUSH! THE WAY ALIENS WERE MEANT TO BE PLAYED! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Aliens were MEANT to be played as a soloer with a little teamwork. That's how it worked in 1.04. Now everything I hear on this forum implies that the only counter to HA, Shotgun, jetpacks is to have 12 people all working as a team to take out 1 little squad that's just going to be reequipped when they respawn.
Meanwhile, marine's teamwork is like this: Commander tells them what to do. They go off and do it. Shoot stuff on the way.
Aliens seem to require more teamwork then the marines do nowadays.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That's how it worked in 1.04<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um, yeah. It's a <b>TEAM-BASED</b> game, where <b>TEAMWORK</b> will always play a role even if you're playing a wall-climbing dog of doom. Either team WILL lose without <b>TEAMWORK.</b>
You know, just once I'd like to post on these forums without having 15 idiots spew the same rhetoric that contradicts what everyone else said.
4 people say aliens don't need much teamwork.
3 people say OMG you need to have lerk support for you fades while your skulks cover for the onos to get the gorges to drop sensory chambers so the skulks can be cloaked etc. etc. etc.
5 people will offer trite and unconstructive posts along the lines of: "Maybe you shouldn't get shot!"
This forum is suffering from a very bad case of Fanboi-itis.
Now, shotguns are awesome now, but they are not the best counter for many situations, which maybe be why marines are having a tough time with certain wins.
Shotguns are awesome, and most aliens are melee, so of course, they own a good part of the match. But a lerk is a dang good counter, and something that not many aliens get anymore, carapace, is also a good counter. The difference carapace makes when fighting shotgunners is amazing as a fade or onos.
This is why HMG are overall better than shotguns in combat. They are much more versitile then shotguns are. They are more accurate now and can kill enemies well before they can get close enough to stomp, xenocide or slash you to death. Also, an HMG does 20dam/round with 125 per clip. Carapace absorbs 30% of the damage? The reduction for an HMG is significant, but not devistatingly different.
Now compare it to a shotgun. Each of the 16 pellets does A LOT less, it starts at only 10 damage. The 30% reduction makes a massive impact on the shotguners ability to do damage. Just check it out with an onos some time on a friendly server. Carapace is a great counter(not the only one, but a good one).
With only 8 rounds that go really fast, it can impact the ability to kill greatly. Shotguns are a good stand squad weapon, but HMGs are still better, just not as standard anymore. They are made to kill llots of aliens, plain and simple. They are too be used as support, where as shotguns are almost part of any decent squad now.
If it helps, just think of the GL as the Inverse, but equal of the HMG. Its just used to kill structures,t he HMG is used to kill aliens, but they are both VERY strong.
<!--QuoteBegin--a civilian+Aug 6 2003, 03:25 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (a civilian @ Aug 6 2003, 03:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 6 2003, 03:16 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 6 2003, 03:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'd like to know what the counter to shotguns are. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Lerks. They may die in two shots, but only at close range, and Lerks are long ranged. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> thats where your wrong, as lerk i was killed by 4 shots from a shotgun at least 6 onos away from the marine
The problem with the shotgun is the reload time, it takes quite a while for you to put the full 10 shots back in, I've had many battles lost as a result of this.
Although I think the damage should be reduced slightly.
A unique feature of the shotgun, which is present even in vanilla half-life.
You can interrupt the reload animation of the shotgun at any time by shooting, thus making shotguns have little actualy 'reload delay' which is present in weapons with clips and stuff, like LMGs.
Edit: However, if you have a totally empty clip.......well.......
Comments
Shotties are wicked, wild, fun and combined with HMGs you will start to need exponents to describe the t0t4l 0wn4g3.
The problem is that the only ranged attacks that are DECENT are hive 3 abilities. So no acid rocket, primal spikes, etc.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm guessing your not that great with spores, then, eh?
/me remembers his 9 kills with 1 spore...what a good day.
An alien only needs to gain 5 resource points in order to evolve to Lerk. If they didn't see the rush coming, they didn't scout well enough. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course they saw the rush comming we did it successfully 3 times in a row... remember its the beggining of the game... recources come slow and we finished the game in about 2 minutes and they killed just about none of our marines... There was just about no way they could have evolved and if they did they were too late...
A first page post that I felt the need to address...
That is ridiculous. Onoses won't be useless vs. HA, Redemption will be. Is it so unheard of for Onoses to start getting Cara or Regen? I always take regen with Onos and I pick apart HA groups on a regular basis.
Anyway, the counter to shotguns is a smart lerk, even at one hive. And have you seen how long it takes shotguns to take down a hive that has umbra? It's pitiful. The counter to HA/Shotguns is the same as the counter to any HAs, Onoses. Of course shotguns can kill them; Onoses die pretty fast to LMG if they run in like tards as many of them still seem to be doing. A combination of ambushing, stomp and devour is extremely effective against any kind of HA.
I think the reason people use shotguns more than HMGs is that shotguns are still capable of eradicating all forms of buildings; a single shotgunner and take out any chamber in seconds and a group of them just devastate a hive. If you have umbra, though, they're basically forced to use GLs to take out a hive. I think there just aren't enough good Lerks as a whole on pub alien teams right now, and hopefully that will change soon.
I absolutely agree. The Lerk is an incredibly underused class that is the Aliens answer in 2.0 for many situations they used to solve with Fades in 1.04. The Lerks combination of offense and defense takes a good while to get the hang of, but it's great once you get it down.
I would also like to suggest that the Onos players who keep getting pwned by shotties try using something besides redemption. It's one of the most overrated abilities in the game right now IMHO. I watched a game with 3 redemption Onoses drag out for a full hour longer than it should have simply because the Onoses didn't have the staying power to finish off the marine base... kept getting redeemed just before finishing off the main structures. It wasn't until they managed to die and came back with a combo of one with Regen and another with Carapace (supported by a Lerk and Gorge respectively) that they were able to finish off the base.
<span style='color:yellow'>What about when they Group up and have HA?</span>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And have you seen how long it takes shotguns to take down a hive that has umbra? It's pitiful. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='color:yellow'>It doesn't take all that long when you have 4 or 6 SGs firing at the same time!</span>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The counter to HA/Shotguns is the same as the counter to any HAs, Onoses.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <span style='color:yellow'>The Onos who tryed to stop us was the only player who had enough res to go Onos at that point and even with Umbra we F()><()R his a$$ in only a few shots. </span>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think the reason people use shotguns more than HMGs is that shotguns are still capable of eradicating all forms of buildings; a single shotgunner and take out any chamber in seconds and a group of them just devastate a hive. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='color:yellow'>Thats my point! Dmg vs Structures needs to be lowered for the SG, keep it just as strong vs the ONOS (its still needed to be a counter to redemption) but it needs to be relaxed when going up against a Row of OCS or a HIVE.</span>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
If you have umbra, though, they're basically forced to use GLs to take out a hive<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <span style='color:yellow'>As I said, 6 SGs can take down a hive in seconds, umbra or no umbra! maybe 20 seconds instead of 4 but still way too fast!</span>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->without mentioning one the shotgun's weaknesses, reload time<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='color:yellow'>What does reload matter if you have 4 ppl with SGs, by the time one person has to reload the problem is already destroyed!
And since no one person is ever given a SG and rambos are useless ppl that never get SGs, SGers are always in groups. I normally reload as we move to the next area of attack. </span>
"You should counter it by having gorges give lerks support while an onos goes in, and the lerk supports the onos."
<b><i>IT SHOULD NOT TAKE 1/2 THE ALIEN TEAM TO KILL ONE MAN WITH A SHOTGUN</b></i>
Close range support against lightly armored units. This means lerks and skulks. It has a spread so it's ideal for blasting quick-moving skulks.
Shoot a guy without a kevlar vest with a shotgun. Big **** hole in him. Or lots of little ones.
Shoot a guy with a kevlar vest with a shotgun. He gets knocked on his ****, gets up, and beats your **** in.
What's my point? Armor absorption should suck the energy out of a shotgun. Shotguns should do next to NOTHING to onos, fades, and structures. Onos counter? Make the HMG do more damage vs. the Onos. HMGs are rare to see nowadays.
- Shotguns are cheap. They're easilly accessable early in the game. They should be good vs. early game units.
- Skulks are cheap. They're easilly accessable early in the game. They ARE only good vs. early game marines.
So unless the skulk is going to get a 'diamond teeth upgrade' that lets him kill HA in 2 hits, the shotgun is horribly out of place.
30 res in HA / Shotgun easily beats a fade because the fade is now melee only until 3rd hive and thus get owned by shotgun users because he has to come so close.
And ifny of the marine n00bs out there go "owww but your meant to blink in and slash and run away again" i'll freaking kill them because in a situation where 2 equally skilled players meet HA/SG will beat a fade every time.
If you have umbra, though, they're basically forced to use GLs to take out a hive<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> As I said, 6 SGs can take down a hive in seconds, umbra or no umbra! maybe 20 seconds instead of 4 but still way too fast
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm.. umbra stops 5 out of 6 shots, making everything take 6 times more shots to kill. A shotgun fires 10 pellets of 17 damage each, making for 170 damage per shot and 1700 damage per clip. 5 seconds to fire the clip, five seconds to reload, so it's 170 damage/sec sustained ... 6000 hits/170 damage comes out at about 35 sec. Six lvl 3 shotties would take down an umbraed hive in about 20-25 seconds.
So the other day I was playing this game of ns 2.0 on the marine side and we dominated and never let the aliens have any res and we won and I was really surprised I was like where are all the onoses?
It's good to see some freaking teamwork on the aliens once in a while. Aliens require little to no teamwork to win on the basic pub server.
I'm not entirely sure why the devs made the shotgun the way it is, but I like it. If you're getting killed by one man with a shotty.....try setting up......god forbid...an AMBUSH! THE WAY ALIENS WERE MEANT TO BE PLAYED!
"You should counter it by having gorges give lerks support while an onos goes in, and the lerk supports the onos."
<b><i>IT SHOULD NOT TAKE 1/2 THE ALIEN TEAM TO KILL ONE MAN WITH A SHOTGUN</b></i> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Must be a pretty crappy team to require 3-4 people to kill one guy with a shotgun. After all, you can shoot a skulk at close range with a shotgun and it can actually live (2.0 value).
It's good to see some freaking teamwork on the aliens once in a while. Aliens require little to no teamwork to win on the basic pub server.
I'm not entirely sure why the devs made the shotgun the way it is, but I like it. If you're getting killed by one man with a shotty.....try setting up......god forbid...an AMBUSH! THE WAY ALIENS WERE MEANT TO BE PLAYED! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aliens were MEANT to be played as a soloer with a little teamwork. That's how it worked in 1.04. Now everything I hear on this forum implies that the only counter to HA, Shotgun, jetpacks is to have 12 people all working as a team to take out 1 little squad that's just going to be reequipped when they respawn.
Meanwhile, marine's teamwork is like this: Commander tells them what to do. They go off and do it. Shoot stuff on the way.
Aliens seem to require more teamwork then the marines do nowadays.
Welcome to 2.0
Have fun!
Kharaa need to work together more but not as much as Marines and I think it needs to be stressed this way!
4 people say aliens don't need much teamwork.
3 people say OMG you need to have lerk support for you fades while your skulks cover for the onos to get the gorges to drop sensory chambers so the skulks can be cloaked etc. etc. etc.
5 people will offer trite and unconstructive posts along the lines of: "Maybe you shouldn't get shot!"
This forum is suffering from a very bad case of Fanboi-itis.
Shotguns are awesome, and most aliens are melee, so of course, they own a good part of the match. But a lerk is a dang good counter, and something that not many aliens get anymore, carapace, is also a good counter. The difference carapace makes when fighting shotgunners is amazing as a fade or onos.
This is why HMG are overall better than shotguns in combat. They are much more versitile then shotguns are. They are more accurate now and can kill enemies well before they can get close enough to stomp, xenocide or slash you to death. Also, an HMG does 20dam/round with 125 per clip. Carapace absorbs 30% of the damage? The reduction for an HMG is significant, but not devistatingly different.
Now compare it to a shotgun. Each of the 16 pellets does A LOT less, it starts at only 10 damage. The 30% reduction makes a massive impact on the shotguners ability to do damage. Just check it out with an onos some time on a friendly server. Carapace is a great counter(not the only one, but a good one).
With only 8 rounds that go really fast, it can impact the ability to kill greatly. Shotguns are a good stand squad weapon, but HMGs are still better, just not as standard anymore. They are made to kill llots of aliens, plain and simple. They are too be used as support, where as shotguns are almost part of any decent squad now.
If it helps, just think of the GL as the Inverse, but equal of the HMG. Its just used to kill structures,t he HMG is used to kill aliens, but they are both VERY strong.
Lerks. They may die in two shots, but only at close range, and Lerks are long ranged. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats where your wrong, as lerk i was killed by 4 shots from a shotgun at least 6 onos away from the marine
Although I think the damage should be reduced slightly.
You can interrupt the reload animation of the shotgun at any time by shooting, thus making shotguns have little actualy 'reload delay' which is present in weapons with clips and stuff, like LMGs.
Edit: However, if you have a totally empty clip.......well.......