if the dev team doesn't react quickily enough to perceived imbalance they'll lose players, they can always adjust balance later.
Shotgun is broken, because its an uberpowered short range weapon. Because the aliens are very reliant on melee weapons, they have difficulty versus shotgun for that reason.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm aware of that. It's just that, even with a combined arms squad with all sorts of guns, onos still redeems with a fair amount of health left..... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not particularily true, well upgraded marines with a variety of weapons should be able to take down a redeming onos at least 50% of the time.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->if the dev team doesn't react quickily enough to perceived imbalance they'll lose players, they can always adjust balance later.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would hope the dev team are more worried about creating a good balanced game than they are about the amount of people playing their mod.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Shotgun is broken, because its an uberpowered short range weapon. Because the aliens are very reliant on melee weapons, they have difficulty versus shotgun for that reason. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What on earth? you mean to say a shotgun is good from short range but not from long range <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> These NS devs want to study their guns more, everyone knows the shotgun is the uber sniper rifle really.
Well ive died far too many times as a redeming onos <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
It does happen, maybe try and play on more clan servers, this is a recommendation i make to everyone for 2.0 - play it on clan servers and not blueyonder.
I will recommend - **** Brits - Natural Selection 2.0 - I cant remember the IP as im at work <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> but just have a look on gametiger or ASE or something and you will find it. We have 16 player slots with 2 reserved so you never get kicked. We also have a few dedicated admins who play NS too much <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Its (sometimes) quite high quality too, despite a sudden influx of inexperienced players
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->but its not clean is it, and has low armor pene due to the dispersion of force among a group of pellets? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not clean? what do you expect, its a shotgun <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I do take your meaning, but ultimatly ive never had huge problems with shotguns, theyre effective but not game winners on their own.
ive had darn near full health as an onos and been redeemed by one shotty blast. Marines probably had upgrades but still, an onos is supposed to be a walking tank and one blast takes away most of its life.
You can put alot of that down to the over-sensitive redemption. The main drawback of it is for Onos it kicks in around 200 health, you also had no upgraded armour.
Shotgun = onos killer, said it before, ill say it again.
It does alot of damage if all its shots hit, which they ultimately are on a big fat beast of an onos. A skulk is far more effective against someone with a shotgun.
Lvl 0 shotgun does 200 damage a shot i believe <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
hmmmm play with testing on and youll see, shoot the hive, it says -220 at lvl2 weapons (the only time i really payd attention) and i was under the impression that each upgrade ats 10% of the base value of damage, so lvl0 - 200 lvl1 = 210 lvl2 = 220 lvl3 = 230 160 was the 1.0 value, but i think its changed
at level 2, it suggests that the weapon is at 120% of its base damage. So, 220/1 * 13/12 should yield the new damage number...
you don't end up with a whole number. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
check dmg stats, i think that it should be 180, 198, 216, 234.
its as before people who play either side say that either or need to be modified, I play marines mostly as I like em.
I've seen rampaging onos taking out loads of marines with shottys I blame it on lack of teamwork to be honest nothing to do with the game, I have found myself saying Onos are too overpowered many a time as I see whole groups of marines getting tramped but I myself have seen onos taken down with knifes and pistols when we get desperate we go all out war, I know I do.
I've ran down corridors hoping that someone will back me up to save a soldier thats been devoured and been able to save my comrade (with a light machine gun and a pistol (call me a rambo if you want but sometimes people will run with you sometimes they won't, I enjoy the excitement of looking out for each other) and get back to base, to safety.
I think everything is good as it is. I have seen aliens win games mostly when I was in v1 and now in v2 I'm seen aliens win mostly as well. Getting a good comm is hard, most of the time I've gone onto a server people are not wanting to be comm because people give you such a hard time when you're starting out. I tried it out a few times and straight away people were calling me n00b and stupid comm. People are unsupportive of new commanders and it makes it hard for them to develop the skills to be a good comm. Personally myself I now encourage new comms and support them and try and give them advice. I know my place on the field, I'm a soldier through and through, most call me battlefield general now as I lead the troops well from the field.
anyway my bit over.
I say shotgun is fine and all other elements are fine, only thing I'd like to see is more weaponry, I'm a fiend for loads of weaponry <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I have a real problem with being able to destroy a Hive in less than 5 seconds with 4 SGs. I think that Umbra needs to be better vs the SG and to stop a SG team from owning everything on the way to the hive.
The hive will go down so fast that your team wont be able to get to it in time, if they all just got SGed to death trying to stop the SG rush, your GG for sure.
I wish Hive umbra was added, to stop the massive owning by the SG on a hive. The GL/HMG should be the HIVE killer not a SG, maybe the SG needs to be less effective vs Structures.
I still think Umbra needs to work better vs the SG! as of right now its not stopping enough to save you from a single blast.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I wish Hive umbra was added, to stop the massive owning by the SG on a hive. The GL/HMG should be the HIVE killer not a SG, maybe the SG needs to be less effective vs Structures.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Finally a decent suggestion <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
However if SG becomes less effective against structures, the GL must be bumped up/made cheaper to compensate. Though even if SG were 1/2 damage on structures, a group of SG's would still take down a hive very fast.
<!--QuoteBegin--kavasa+Aug 6 2003, 03:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kavasa @ Aug 6 2003, 03:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> O hay guys check out this neat 2-hive ability I found for lerks it's called umbra and it seems to really help my teammates when I use it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> LOL
Ok so the hive goes down in 5 seconds with SGs... did you guys build defence? Did you get the whole team there? If the whole marine team is in the hive then you should be there too. People aren't bothering with hive D these days.
<!--QuoteBegin--LambdaProject+Aug 6 2003, 10:29 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (LambdaProject @ Aug 6 2003, 10:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--kavasa+Aug 6 2003, 03:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kavasa @ Aug 6 2003, 03:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> O hay guys check out this neat 2-hive ability I found for lerks it's called umbra and it seems to really help my teammates when I use it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> LOL
Ok so the hive goes down in 5 seconds with SGs... did you guys build defence? Did you get the whole team there? If the whole marine team is in the hive then you should be there too. People aren't bothering with hive D these days. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ok I'll set the scene for you. We were player ns_veil, I was a marine. 6 of us were given all SGs and 3 of the 6 were given HA and a SG (I just had a SG no HA). We started to walk towards one of the hives (the one near the res nozzle called "The Overlook") The Kharaa swarmed us as skulks and lerks and a fade, the 6 SGs smoked the Fade, the Skulks and the lerks in seconds. We took down WoL and RTs on the way, commander dropping us life and Ammo as needed. Now an Onos and a pair of lerks met us by "The Overlook" Res node We lost 2 non HAs to the Spores and were able to kill the Onos and the Lerks. Now it was me and 3 HAs all of us walked into the Hive, Killed 2 skulks and Smoked the Hive in less than 5 seconds, and then turned our attention to the remaining OCs.
The Lerk was shooting Umbra when the fades attacked, smoked him, they were sporing and shooting umbra when the Onos was attacking us and we still killed him in a few shots. Umbra never saved the Onos and the Ocs couldn't stop us either, we simply Owned anything in our way and took down the hive before they even had a chance to stop us!
Becasue we were able to do this so fast, by the time they died and respawned we had already killed the hive. It would have taken an army of Onos to stop us and they just didnt have the res income for it.
This is what I have a problem with.!
The SG is so cheap that you can give out 6 of them and still have res for HAs also. You would be able to give out maybe 4 HMGs and no HA, what would you pick?
Reduce the SG damage vs Structures and increase Umbra effectiveness vs the SG. then people wont just use a SG train to win the game.
We have a new lame tactic, not as lame as JP/HMG, much slower but just as unstoppable when done right!
SinSpawnHarbinger of SufferingJoin Date: 2002-11-12Member: 8359Members
I feel the shotty shoots abit to fast for its animations, this shuld be fixed, if you look at the animations, it shows you fire then pump the shotgun but, you can immediately shoot, but the shooty animation shows it shooting the sky (first person)
Comments
Shotgun is broken, because its an uberpowered short range weapon. Because the aliens are very reliant on melee weapons, they have difficulty versus shotgun for that reason.
Play it at least 2 weeks before complaining about balance.
Not particularily true, well upgraded marines with a variety of weapons should be able to take down a redeming onos at least 50% of the time.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->if the dev team doesn't react quickily enough to perceived imbalance they'll lose players, they can always adjust balance later.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would hope the dev team are more worried about creating a good balanced game than they are about the amount of people playing their mod.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Shotgun is broken, because its an uberpowered short range weapon. Because the aliens are very reliant on melee weapons, they have difficulty versus shotgun for that reason. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What on earth? you mean to say a shotgun is good from short range but not from long range <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
These NS devs want to study their guns more, everyone knows the shotgun is the uber sniper rifle really.
I have yet to see a redeeming onos go down in the servers I play in.......maybe it's just people can't aim well enough?
I mean, how hard can it be to hit a giant armored cow that takes up the entire width of the corridor you're standing in?
It does happen, maybe try and play on more clan servers, this is a recommendation i make to everyone for 2.0 - play it on clan servers and not blueyonder.
I will recommend - **** Brits - Natural Selection 2.0 - I cant remember the IP as im at work <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> but just have a look on gametiger or ASE or something and you will find it. We have 16 player slots with 2 reserved so you never get kicked. We also have a few dedicated admins who play NS too much <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Its (sometimes) quite high quality too, despite a sudden influx of inexperienced players
Edit: Errrr, by slugs I mean really really small ones.....basically depleted uranium buckshot.......or something.
Not clean? what do you expect, its a shotgun <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I do take your meaning, but ultimatly ive never had huge problems with shotguns, theyre effective but not game winners on their own.
213.230.205.100:27015
Unless you have redemption i would not take a shotgun lightly..
It does alot of damage if all its shots hit, which they ultimately are on a big fat beast of an onos. A skulk is far more effective against someone with a shotgun.
play with testing on and youll see, shoot the hive, it says -220 at lvl2 weapons (the only time i really payd attention) and i was under the impression that each upgrade ats 10% of the base value of damage, so lvl0 - 200 lvl1 = 210 lvl2 = 220 lvl3 = 230
160 was the 1.0 value, but i think its changed
at level 2, it suggests that the weapon is at 120% of its base damage. So, 220/1 * 13/12 should yield the new damage number...
you don't end up with a whole number. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
check dmg stats, i think that it should be 180, 198, 216, 234.
if 200 base, 220, 240, 260.
if 160 base, 176, 192, 208
So even if it is a bit more powerfull thats not enough to turn it from 'barely usefull' to 'omgz0r th4t gun i$ s0 h4x'.
I've seen rampaging onos taking out loads of marines with shottys I blame it on lack of teamwork to be honest nothing to do with the game, I have found myself saying Onos are too overpowered many a time as I see whole groups of marines getting tramped but I myself have seen onos taken down with knifes and pistols when we get desperate we go all out war, I know I do.
I've ran down corridors hoping that someone will back me up to save a soldier thats been devoured and been able to save my comrade (with a light machine gun and a pistol (call me a rambo if you want but sometimes people will run with you sometimes they won't, I enjoy the excitement of looking out for each other) and get back to base, to safety.
I think everything is good as it is.
I have seen aliens win games mostly when I was in v1 and now in v2 I'm seen aliens win mostly as well. Getting a good comm is hard, most of the time I've gone onto a server people are not wanting to be comm because people give you such a hard time when you're starting out. I tried it out a few times and straight away people were calling me n00b and stupid comm. People are unsupportive of new commanders and it makes it hard for them to develop the skills to be a good comm. Personally myself I now encourage new comms and support them and try and give them advice. I know my place on the field, I'm a soldier through and through, most call me battlefield general now as I lead the troops well from the field.
anyway my bit over.
I say shotgun is fine and all other elements are fine, only thing I'd like to see is more weaponry, I'm a fiend for loads of weaponry <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
play nice people
Duren out
I think that Umbra needs to be better vs the SG and to stop a SG team from owning everything on the way to the hive.
The hive will go down so fast that your team wont be able to get to it in time, if they all just got SGed to death trying to stop the SG rush, your GG for sure.
I wish Hive umbra was added, to stop the massive owning by the SG on a hive. The GL/HMG should be the HIVE killer not a SG, maybe the SG needs to be less effective vs Structures.
I still think Umbra needs to work better vs the SG! as of right now its not stopping enough to save you from a single blast.
Finally a decent suggestion <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
LOL
Ok so the hive goes down in 5 seconds with SGs... did you guys build defence? Did you get the whole team there? If the whole marine team is in the hive then you should be there too. People aren't bothering with hive D these days.
LOL
Ok so the hive goes down in 5 seconds with SGs... did you guys build defence? Did you get the whole team there? If the whole marine team is in the hive then you should be there too. People aren't bothering with hive D these days. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok I'll set the scene for you.
We were player ns_veil, I was a marine.
6 of us were given all SGs and 3 of the 6 were given HA and a SG (I just had a SG no HA). We started to walk towards one of the hives (the one near the res nozzle called "The Overlook") The Kharaa swarmed us as skulks and lerks and a fade, the 6 SGs smoked the Fade, the Skulks and the lerks in seconds. We took down WoL and RTs on the way, commander dropping us life and Ammo as needed.
Now an Onos and a pair of lerks met us by "The Overlook" Res node We lost 2 non HAs to the Spores and were able to kill the Onos and the Lerks.
Now it was me and 3 HAs all of us walked into the Hive, Killed 2 skulks and Smoked the Hive in less than 5 seconds, and then turned our attention to the remaining OCs.
The Lerk was shooting Umbra when the fades attacked, smoked him, they were sporing and shooting umbra when the Onos was attacking us and we still killed him in a few shots. Umbra never saved the Onos and the Ocs couldn't stop us either, we simply Owned anything in our way and took down the hive before they even had a chance to stop us!
Becasue we were able to do this so fast, by the time they died and respawned we had already killed the hive. It would have taken an army of Onos to stop us and they just didnt have the res income for it.
This is what I have a problem with.!
The SG is so cheap that you can give out 6 of them and still have res for HAs also. You would be able to give out maybe 4 HMGs and no HA, what would you pick?
Reduce the SG damage vs Structures and increase Umbra effectiveness vs the SG. then people wont just use a SG train to win the game.
We have a new lame tactic, not as lame as JP/HMG, much slower but just as unstoppable when done right!