Honest 2.0 Evaluation
Zelda
Join Date: 2003-05-31 Member: 16893Members
Join Date: 2003-05-31 Member: 16893Members
I am going to be honest with my evaluation and please do not pull that "you haven't played 2.0 enough" **** on me because my little brother was a Veteran who let me play 2.0 since it changed from version 1.1. First of all, I am pleased with the new sounds as they far surpass the old ones. The grenade launcher model is another excellent modification. By far what I like the most, no contest, is the new information given to the player about his surroundings. It tells you when medpaks and ammo are being dropped and where, it informs you of concurrent upgrades, and finally the minimap shows your current position. Bear with me as I can't think of anything else improved upon other than this from 1.0. The gameplay has suffered <b>dearly</b> from the version switch and the games are very long, tedious, and repetitive. Hives no longer possess the significance that they used to; with the hive requirements removed, every game ends up with Onos vs. HA and after hours of playing one side prevails. The commander mode is way too complicated for any sane person's taste. It doesn't even tell you what each icon represents. I couldn't find the phase gate tech icon because it didn't tell me when I moved my cursor over the icons. One last point I would like to make is that the game does nothing for the few gorges who sacrifice hunting marines as Onos or Fade, and build resource nozzles/lame-**** cloaking areas. I can think of far more ways by which 2.0's gameplay in general has detrimented from 2.0, but I wish to be more constructive with my time.
Comments
Every single of your points is negated by reality
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However, Zelda, I disagree on your point about the gorges. Teams really all fight and only go gorge in the beginning to drop rts and cap as many as they can, then go back to skulk, and drop stuff accordingly to how much res they got from their kills. Really, there should be no permanent gorge, only temp gorges who drop stuff, then leave.
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Oh, and simply to add the commonly held rant I belive in, the learning curve is too high for ignorant "3y3 4r3 "elite"" newbies who just sit in base/idle/spam chat/request stuff/llama. A training course needs to be added for those who are new.
I love NS but the things that this new patch has brought that I'm not to found of are as follows:
*Fade much weaker, is only close combat until hive 3.
*Offensive chambers don't seem to be as powerful
*Turrets are much better, stronger, shoot immediatly. Makes them nearly impossible to take out.
*Umbra doesn't stay around long enough
These are all just annoyances I have had since the new patch, I will get used to them. My enjoyed features though far out way the small annoyances, great job dev team.
I had a rather nice game on Fists of Ra (Great server) with an exellent commander, and coordinated team. I was in squad one, and we were assigned to an area to patrol. Squad two was on the other side of the map, doing the same thing. We had an epic battle with the aliens after their second hive (We had one locked down, with squad two was patroling the area around it, as we attacked). But they managed to push us back with their absolutly amazing teamwork, and we held on for as long as we could. I suggested one giant push with the scrabble res we could gather, buying one heavy with an HMG, a GL'r, and some welders, and we rushed their hive with everyone we had. We almost got in, but we got pushed back. Our ill equiped team fell into chaos, and soon, we were blocked in, and collapsed. That whole game lasted about an hour I believe, absolutly astounding, many pushes and battles fought. 2.0 is amazing when you have a minimum level of teamwork. Wait about a week, until people get the swing of teamwork.
And zelda, I think your trying to work around the flaming. Who <i>is</i> your brother, and I would like one other person that somone else knows to confirm this. I'm really not taking your word on this, as you mention little about him.
The new Off chambers are far more accurate.
In fact in nearly every game I played marines were bitching about them. I cant even count the number of times I heard "OCs have aimbot"
Commander mode is 1000 times more infromative and easier to use.
Fact is, you <i>havent</i> played 2.0 enough to make a judgement wether you want to be told that or not...you havent.
Your experience is so vastly different from mine and that of others it's selfish to even think you can make such assumptions already. Until repeated strategies emerge and everyone reprts having the exact same experience for nearly every game they play...and one team repeatedly dominates that we should draw these types of conclusion. You arent the only one in any game you play...you gotta wait for everyone else to learn how to play. Once everyone is up to par, then your advanced knowledge of 2.0 will be worth anything, until then its (for lack of a better word) selfish.
Also, the teamplay element seems vastly improved. Even the aliens need to work together, and with a variety of units to take advantage of their special abilities. However, fades seem much too weak, since even a few lvl 1 marines can easily take one down. For 50 credits, they get mauled vs. just 1 HA/HMG costing 40 credits. I can kill just as much marines as a skulk for free than a fade <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Another good point raised is the fun gorges have. I love being gorge, and have played them extensively, yet I feel they get the short end of the stick. They spend the whole game using res for building, leaving nothing left for themselves. When all the building is done, and everyone has HA/HMG, you have to do skulk runs for a loooooong time until you have enough res yourself to go onos or even fade <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
I don't like the new play style of the lerk either. I liked how they were assasins before, swooping down and taking down lone or small groups of lvl1 marines. But now, they'll be hard pressed to be even able to take out one marine. Plus, I think it's a lot more boring having to use spikes instead of bite. They're strictly support units now, unable to do much other than spore bases.
Still, these are initial impressions. V2 has been great so far <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I was ready to go onos...
When our second hive went down.
I gorged while the first hive was being annihilated and put up the cargo hive again. Somehow, our skulks managed to force the HA/hmg and HA/GL marines away from Computer Core. Meanwhile, I had been taking my measily res and putting up oc's, dc's, and sensories. Soon I had about 6 oc's total defending maintainance hive, with max dc's to heal them, and sensories out the wingwang. Suddenly, a single Ha/HMG marine arrived and mowed down 2 of the 4 Oc's guarding the east entrance to maintainence. This marine was the first of an entire team of Ha/HMG Marines and soon after, GL marines.
Three and a half hours. We fought for an entire hour, holding them off with only skulks. Finally, some of us began to go onos, one onos at a time. Everytime an onos would die, another onos would be born from the hive and would run forward to gore the marines. Being the sole gorge, I had no choice but to try to support them as I built my defense. I had been giving our onos sensories right near the marines, as they had begun to build turret farms and sieges right outside the hive, then a gl bounced around the corner and took me down.
I respawned as a skulk and charged forward. An hour and a half later, we managed to take down the Turrets and their mini base there, as well as their ha/hmg/gl marines. Having a decent amount of res, but noticing that my teammates didn't, I ran around the other exit, gorged, and spotted two res nodes that the marines had ignored. I capped them and suddenly I noticed a marine trying to build a tf near cc. I skulked and chomped him up and one of our onos redeemed into CC...just as a gl went flying past him.
He charged forward, attacked a jp/gl marine, and we found another minibase and discovered Eclipse Command was under HEAVY marine control. I ran back to maintainance to see what was going on there, and discovered that there were about 3 hmg/ha marines there with 1 jp/hmg marine. We dispatched them and forced the marines into a defensive position at keyhole. Finally, I had enough res to onos, and I ran to CC and gestated. Upon bursting forth from my egg, I got redemption, cloaking, and headed off to Eclipse Command.
Through through nearly an hour of combat, a massive amount of teamwork, with a gorge and another onos, we took Eclipse Command back, and headed over to keyhole. Within a few minutes, Keyhole was no more, then it was a matter of the marine base. We all charged towards the base, 4 fades, 1 gorge, 2 onos (including me), 1 lerk, and the rest of the 12 player team as skulks. The marines had HEAVILY fortified and had turrets all over, but we plowed through them and finally, only one thing remained.
The Command Chair.
The Commander popped out in heavy armor with an HMG, ready to fight. I stomped him and the other Onos devoured him.
Team two won.
Have you noticed that you can shoot multiple umbra clouds in a short period. Basically, you can build a longer lasting umbra by timing your shots. With adrenaline, you can build umbras that are even superior in many ways to the old umbras. It's things like this that take time to get used to.
oh wait, i don't have one yet.
Oh ya, I almost leik how my thread about helping hte aliens overcome things that are overpowerd with a helpful have 2 spawn at a time or something weirder and how it was locked, with them going 2.0 WILL FIX EVERYTHING EVEN THIS SPAWN CAMPING CAUSE HIVE WILL UMBRA!!!!!!!! ya that didn't just fall on its face and not happen.
when 2.0 first came out... wait, its still been under two days hasnt it <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> i havent seen marines win yet.
we tech up fast, they tech up fast, adn we battle. i guess we might be battleing for RT's but since i dont kno the maps anymore, we are jsut kinda deathmatching.
so much has changed... i cant even shoot skulks very well now that they flip and spin off walls, the simplest thing, shooting a skulk, i can no longer do. we are newbies. enjoy it while it lasts.
I can't even go anything but redemption when I go Onos otherwise I know I won't survive more than 5 minutes around the map.
Honestly people who haven't played games that lasted more than an hour either didn't play more than 10 rounds or play on servers that all the good players go on one team, and all the newbies on the other. Or both.
Its so easy to kill Fade and Oni with LMGs now that I don't even see people cheering anymore after the kill. Of course, this also varies from server to server.
Shotguns also are way too good... 6-9 shots to kill an Onos is not fun... they used to survive more than 6 grenades without carapace if i'm not mistaken... now they can be killed without reloading your 10 res weapon.
(Puts on standart anti-flame TSA vest 2.0 to prepare for sure to come awnsers : "If you let a marine with a shotgun kill you, you suck" my reply: What can you do against jetpackers on a big room? WHAT? No paralyze, stomp doesn't affect airbone marines... run? Onos are slow as hell! What am I doing on a big room? Gee, trying to protect the hive maybe?)
Oh ya, I almost leik how my thread about helping hte aliens overcome things that are overpowerd with a helpful have 2 spawn at a time or something weirder and how it was locked, with them going 2.0 WILL FIX EVERYTHING EVEN THIS SPAWN CAMPING CAUSE HIVE WILL UMBRA!!!!!!!! ya that didn't just fall on its face and not happen. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed, I played with Fluffy on that map. I was like, ok lets try a shotgun rush. We ran in, shot barely even a few rounds and the hive was down. the game ended in under a minute. Bear didnt' even spawn before we took it down because he ran off. This was 6v6 too so this is a clan match basically. If you had 5 fairly experienced shotty guys you can win the game faster than a jp/hmg rush back in 1.04. This needs to be addressed soon IMO.
Oh ya, I almost leik how my thread about helping hte aliens overcome things that are overpowerd with a helpful have 2 spawn at a time or something weirder and how it was locked, with them going 2.0 WILL FIX EVERYTHING EVEN THIS SPAWN CAMPING CAUSE HIVE WILL UMBRA!!!!!!!! ya that didn't just fall on its face and not happen. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed, I played with Fluffy on that map. I was like, ok lets try a shotgun rush. We ran in, shot barely even a few rounds and the hive was down. the game ended in under a minute. Bear didnt' even spawn before we took it down because he ran off. This was 6v6 too so this is a clan match basically. If you had 5 fairly experienced shotty guys you can win the game faster than a jp/hmg rush back in 1.04. This needs to be addressed soon IMO. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Depends, what if the aliens had anticipated it and built SC inside of the hive. Could it have so easily worked then?
(I have yet to see this tactic).
Oh ya, I almost leik how my thread about helping hte aliens overcome things that are overpowerd with a helpful have 2 spawn at a time or something weirder and how it was locked, with them going 2.0 WILL FIX EVERYTHING EVEN THIS SPAWN CAMPING CAUSE HIVE WILL UMBRA!!!!!!!! ya that didn't just fall on its face and not happen. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed, I played with Fluffy on that map. I was like, ok lets try a shotgun rush. We ran in, shot barely even a few rounds and the hive was down. the game ended in under a minute. Bear didnt' even spawn before we took it down because he ran off. This was 6v6 too so this is a clan match basically. If you had 5 fairly experienced shotty guys you can win the game faster than a jp/hmg rush back in 1.04. This needs to be addressed soon IMO. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Depends, what if the aliens had anticipated it and built SC inside of the hive. Could it have so easily worked then?
(I have yet to see this tactic). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
5 shotguns can take down a OT in one full blast. I see no way for 6 aliens to stop a group of shotties that can kill a skulk in under 2 seconds. If you have any sort of decent aim you can pull this off too.
I'm going to have to see this done in a more general sense. You should make a thread about shotgun rushes to try and identify if there is a problem.
I still think that skulks (cloaked sort) should be able to stop this particular rush...
We're addressing a issue that needs to be fixed. As soon as the public figures this out, every game will take approximately 2 minutes to win(for marines).
also the new command interfase is BEAUTIFUL <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
We're addressing a issue that needs to be fixed. As soon as the public figures this out, every game will take approximately 2 minutes to win(for marines). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dunno about that. There are many rushes that work straight away until someone manages to figure out a counter.
Of course, some people said that about the Mutalisk rush in Starcraft and they were wrong.
*Shrugs*
I still don't think it's that big a problem....
I'm going to have to see this done in a more general sense. You should make a thread about shotgun rushes to try and identify if there is a problem.
I still think that skulks (cloaked sort) should be able to stop this particular rush... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cloak Skuls won't do much they bite once and they show themselves the shotgunners point and click and he is dead. Hell if they cut through the aliens in teh first place only about 2 aliens will spawn before they loose the hive.
Shotgun: 17 pellets per shot at 10 damage per pellet. (Or something to that matter)
We're addressing a issue that needs to be fixed. As soon as the public figures this out, every game will take approximately 2 minutes to win(for marines). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
My point still remains the same. I highly doubt something this obvious was not discovered during play testing. A solution must be hiding.
We're addressing a issue that needs to be fixed. As soon as the public figures this out, every game will take approximately 2 minutes to win(for marines). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dunno about that. There are many rushes that work straight away until someone manages to figure out a counter.
Of course, some people said that about the Mutalisk rush in Starcraft and they were wrong.
*Shrugs*
I still don't think it's that big a problem.... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is how serious it was, we caught 2 gorges gestating and the rest of the skulks were sitll in the hive when we walked it. They wont even be able to get a building up before you have the fade killer weapon in your base.
We're addressing a issue that needs to be fixed. As soon as the public figures this out, every game will take approximately 2 minutes to win(for marines). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My point still remains the same. I highly doubt something this obvious was not discovered during play testing. A solution must be hiding. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, Blizzard had a larger beta than NS 2.0 and missed the most powerful rush in SC (The Mutalisk) because nobody at the time thought of it (in fact, it was version changes that caused it to be missed).
It also appears that devour+redeeming onos has been missed :/
I'm still not convinced this is imbalanced, but the sooner an unstoppable rush is found the faster it can be fixed.