<!--QuoteBegin--Cpl.Davis+Jun 27 2003, 02:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cpl.Davis @ Jun 27 2003, 02:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Dont forget there is a .22 "long" and a .22 "short.
The pistol .22 round is smaller then the .22 rifle round in terms of casing and the such. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Probably long barrel = rifle, short = handgun.
without the gun, the bullets about as effective as a hardened sponge <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Coincidentally, .22's are the round that kill the most people, despite it being weak as poo.
And my dad has a few scars from 'Nam. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
NarfwakJoin Date: 2002-11-02Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
It should also be noted that width != power. For example, a 5.56 NATO round is much longer (and therefore carries more powder, and would be much more powerful) than the tiny 9x19mm Parabellum used in so many SMGs and handguns.
Russia actually makes 9x39mm rifle rounds - that's bigger than a whopping 7.62 cartridge (think AK-47). It's used in the VSS silenced sniper system and the AS special forces silences rifle. Them Russkies make some goofy guns.
Also note - the .22 used by hunters and boyscouts != the .22 used by the military. This point was made back when the DC sniper was at large. He was using the larger, NATO round (fired in M16, many other weapons) and not the smaller round used in civilian weapons.
What's sad is that I learn all these things just playing computer games and reading Tom Clancy books <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
BadKarmaThe Advanced Literature monsters burned my house and gave me a 7Join Date: 2002-11-12Member: 8260Members
edited June 2003
Uh, I have a .223 firearm, my Ruger actually. Good for the whitetails we get around here. And really, 7.62 isnt that powerful. Im not saying it wouldnt kill you stone dead but on the scale, it's abotu halfway up. Then again, talking about "high-powered" firearms is more than a little stupid. I mean, if you shot me in the leg with a .22 LR i'd tell you it's plenty high powered.
<!--QuoteBegin--Narfwak+Jun 29 2003, 10:24 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Narfwak @ Jun 29 2003, 10:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> For example, a 5.56 NATO round is much longer (and therefore carries more powder, and would be much more powerful) than the tiny 9x19mm Parabellum used in so many SMGs and handguns. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> But a smaller size enables guns to fire it much faster to get better penetration, which usually = better results (and PLEASE don't go into a FMJ vs JHP rant!).
BadKarmaThe Advanced Literature monsters burned my house and gave me a 7Join Date: 2002-11-12Member: 8260Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Brave Ulysses+Jun 29 2003, 01:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Brave Ulysses @ Jun 29 2003, 01:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But a smaller size enables guns to fire it much faster to get better penetration, which usually = better results (and PLEASE don't go into a FMJ vs JHP rant!). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> How you figure?
<!--QuoteBegin--BadKarma+Jun 29 2003, 04:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BadKarma @ Jun 29 2003, 04:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Brave Ulysses+Jun 29 2003, 01:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Brave Ulysses @ Jun 29 2003, 01:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But a smaller size enables guns to fire it much faster to get better penetration, which usually = better results (and PLEASE don't go into a FMJ vs JHP rant!). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> How you figure? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> a smaller bullet takes less energy to propel to the same speed as a larger bullet.
But, if the bullet does not fully penetrate a target then the same amount of powder will cause the same amount of power to be transfered, but since a smaller bullet has a smaller diameter is is more apt to penetrate targets and move at a faster rate and is less prone to falling at long distances.
<!--QuoteBegin--404NotFound+Jun 29 2003, 05:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (404NotFound @ Jun 29 2003, 05:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> a smaller bullet takes less energy to propel to the same speed as a larger bullet.
But, if the bullet does not fully penetrate a target then the same amount of powder will cause the same amount of power to be transfered, but since a smaller bullet has a smaller diameter is is more apt to penetrate targets and move at a faster rate and is less prone to falling at long distances. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> *Blinks (but in a manner somewhat different to a fade doing it)*
Well if you can get the 2 going the same speed a bullet that is heavier will have more kienetic energy and will do more damage. Also a heavier bullet has more momentum so air resistence will be less and it will slow down less because of that. You only can make a bullet go so fast, so eventually to do more damage you will need a heavier bullet.
<!--QuoteBegin--Salty+Jun 29 2003, 07:53 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Salty @ Jun 29 2003, 07:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well if you can get the 2 going the same speed a bullet that is heavier will have more kienetic energy and will do more damage. Also a heavier bullet has more momentum so air resistence will be less and it will slow down less because of that. You only can make a bullet go so fast, so eventually to do more damage you will need a heavier bullet. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ooooooohhhh physics! Not my strong point <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Anyway, that is true except that the bigger the bullet the MORE air resistance on it (larger surface), of course the bigger the bullet the more momentum. The higher the momentum, the more overall force can be exerted by the bullet.
So if you were hit by a Carbines bullet (which I think is .22 cal) compared to the thirty-ought-six of the m1 Garand which fires the bigger bullet, you'd feel the Garand a LOT more. Of course, in either event you'd probably be rather dead afterwards <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I do remember reading stories of soldiers shooting people with .22 cal and not stopping them dead (unless they hit a vital region). Hit someone with say, a .44 magnum and they know all about it.
BadKarmaThe Advanced Literature monsters burned my house and gave me a 7Join Date: 2002-11-12Member: 8260Members
edited June 2003
Carbine what? M1? Belive that was .30 cal. And .22 hurts like a **** but it wont kill you less you pop an artery or some such. The thing with a .22 is that they penetrate and carry a long ways, especially .22 mag and .22 hornet.
<!--QuoteBegin--BadKarma+Jun 29 2003, 08:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BadKarma @ Jun 29 2003, 08:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well theres something else there. Would you rather be shot with a .22 going at 1000 fps or a .45 going 800 fps? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well I found the weights of a .25 and a .45 cal. Using those figures lets see.
p=mv
Momentum=Mass x Velocity
So
A .25 bullet weighs around .00023kg, while a .45 bullet weights around .25kg.
So
p=.00023 x 1000 p=.23kgfps
p=.25 x 800 p=360kgfps
So I would say that a .45 bullet would hurt a WHOLE lot more than a .25. So I would imagine that a .22 against a .45 would be an even bigger difference.
Ahhh that is right, I remember now. Been a while since I looked at WW2 weapons <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
BadKarmaThe Advanced Literature monsters burned my house and gave me a 7Join Date: 2002-11-12Member: 8260Members
Yes thats what im saying. Of course a .45 would do more damage. Straight FMJ anyway. Another thing, a 12 gauge, 2 3/4 shotgun slug dosnt go very fast but it will mess you up good. For the little bitty things we get up here it's overkill less youre using a .410
I was thinking kienetic energy. 1/2 m*v^2 and then you add the angular kienetic energy 1/2 *I *angular speed squared. Still the .45 would suck alot more.
I assuming that the bullets are cylinders I = 1/2 MR^2
Well **** it I don't know the Inertia for that <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
then theres the contents of the bullet ... a .50 AP a .50 hollow a .50 explosive or 20mm proximity airburst
i for one would want to be shot by a 20mm riot supressing foam round and nothing more lethal although i would like an OICW for the ranged-frag-rapid-fire-pwnageinator
Comments
The pistol .22 round is smaller then the .22 rifle round in terms of casing and the such. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Probably long barrel = rifle, short = handgun.
.22 is reference to the caliber of the weapon.
By most references from my friends, they seem to be weak, but in consideration with a sharpened stick, the .22 caliber would hurt a lot more.
Also, BadKarma, I think 5.56mm and .223 refers to the same exact thing, just everything in europe is now with the metric and not caliber system.
And my dad has a few scars from 'Nam. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Russia actually makes 9x39mm rifle rounds - that's bigger than a whopping 7.62 cartridge (think AK-47). It's used in the VSS silenced sniper system and the AS special forces silences rifle. Them Russkies make some goofy guns.
Also note - the .22 used by hunters and boyscouts != the .22 used by the military. This point was made back when the DC sniper was at large. He was using the larger, NATO round (fired in M16, many other weapons) and not the smaller round used in civilian weapons.
What's sad is that I learn all these things just playing computer games and reading Tom Clancy books <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
But a smaller size enables guns to fire it much faster to get better penetration, which usually = better results (and PLEASE don't go into a FMJ vs JHP rant!).
How you figure?
How you figure? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
a smaller bullet takes less energy to propel to the same speed as a larger bullet.
But, if the bullet does not fully penetrate a target then the same amount of powder will cause the same amount of power to be transfered, but since a smaller bullet has a smaller diameter is is more apt to penetrate targets and move at a faster rate and is less prone to falling at long distances.
a smaller bullet takes less energy to propel to the same speed as a larger bullet.
But, if the bullet does not fully penetrate a target then the same amount of powder will cause the same amount of power to be transfered, but since a smaller bullet has a smaller diameter is is more apt to penetrate targets and move at a faster rate and is less prone to falling at long distances. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
*Blinks (but in a manner somewhat different to a fade doing it)*
Yeah - pretty much that.
Ooooooohhhh physics! Not my strong point <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Anyway, that is true except that the bigger the bullet the MORE air resistance on it (larger surface), of course the bigger the bullet the more momentum. The higher the momentum, the more overall force can be exerted by the bullet.
So if you were hit by a Carbines bullet (which I think is .22 cal) compared to the thirty-ought-six of the m1 Garand which fires the bigger bullet, you'd feel the Garand a LOT more. Of course, in either event you'd probably be rather dead afterwards <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I do remember reading stories of soldiers shooting people with .22 cal and not stopping them dead (unless they hit a vital region). Hit someone with say, a .44 magnum and they know all about it.
Well I found the weights of a .25 and a .45 cal. Using those figures lets see.
p=mv
Momentum=Mass x Velocity
So
A .25 bullet weighs around .00023kg, while a .45 bullet weights around .25kg.
So
p=.00023 x 1000
p=.23kgfps
p=.25 x 800
p=360kgfps
So I would say that a .45 bullet would hurt a WHOLE lot more than a .25. So I would imagine that a .22 against a .45 would be an even bigger difference.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Carbine what?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ahhh that is right, I remember now. Been a while since I looked at WW2 weapons <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I assuming that the bullets are cylinders I = 1/2 MR^2
R= radius, M = mass, V= velocity.
a .50 AP
a .50 hollow
a .50 explosive
or 20mm proximity airburst
i for one would want to be shot by a 20mm riot supressing foam round and nothing more lethal
although i would like an OICW for the ranged-frag-rapid-fire-pwnageinator