Regarding Flayra Interview

GuspazGuspaz Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2862Members, Constellation
edited June 2003 in NS General Discussion
I was extremely pleased to see that you (Flayra) hope to persue NS commercially. This is CERTAINLY a game I am willing to spend money to buy! I also hope to join the constellation program when the means become available to me <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

Natural-Selection could do nothing but benefit from retail sales... The development team could, at the very least, be much more dedicated due to full financial coverage <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Good luck with it!
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Comments

  • clamatiusclamatius Join Date: 2003-03-27 Member: 14948Members, Constellation
    In case people don't realise, the <a href='http://ingaming.com/articles.php?f=49' target='_blank'>link to the interview</a> is from the site front page.
  • Brave_UlyssesBrave_Ulysses Join Date: 2003-04-28 Member: 15922Members
    So multiplayer excites Flayra. Well, I never used to enjoy MP games - it seemed all about twitch shooting, ultrafast gameplay like Quake or Unreal. But NS has really addicted me. I love it! And a retail version sounds nice. I know some HL mods received retail versions - like The Gunman Chronicles - which felt fun to play but I didn't consider worth paying money for. They Hunger, for example, I consider superior to TGC but Neil Manke has made it available freely for download. And I'd pay for that one! Same with NS - free? Fantastic! Brilliant! But a retail copy you have to pay for? Ace! Definitely worth it!

    I'll stop talking now...
  • SpoogeSpooge Thunderbolt missile in your cheerios Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 67Members
    Hmm. Retail?

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Will I ever have to pay for NS? Will we ever see NS on Steam?</b>
    Natural Selection will always be free. We are working with VALVe to get Natural Selection on Steam at release.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That's in the FAQ. Wonder what this all means. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • BugBrainBugBrain Join Date: 2003-05-14 Member: 16279Members
    NS is an excellent game. The game has obviously had a lot of effort put into it, and Flayra and his crew would be more than justified i getting paid to do this.

    It would also lead to even better things IMO. If Flayra got paid to do this, he could spend even MORE time on his games, streamlining and perfecting them in record time.
  • MrMoFoMrMoFo Join Date: 2003-05-10 Member: 16193Members
    even if it goes retail it would still be free for the people with half-life, counter-strike and day of defeat are <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • criticaIcriticaI Join Date: 2003-04-07 Member: 15269Banned, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--Spooge+Jun 11 2003, 11:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Spooge @ Jun 11 2003, 11:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hmm. Retail?

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Will I ever have to pay for NS? Will we ever see NS on Steam?</b>
    Natural Selection will always be free. We are working with VALVe to get Natural Selection on Steam at release.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That's in the FAQ. Wonder what this all means. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Its like CS or DoD silly... a retail version.. but you always have the option of downloading it for free. Flayra hasn't gone back on that. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    vehicles? nooo...... i dont want em
  • RyoOhkiRyoOhki Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12789Members
    edited June 2003
    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    OOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    *the crys of every devoted NS player who has ever lived*

    I don't know how to say this without coming off sounding like an utter jerk. I love NS the way it is.
    Flayra and the gang are free to develop the game as they see fit, without worrying about "consumers" or "customers".
    Flayra's statements that NS was always going to be free seem to have lead me to the wrong conclusion:
    now this seems to simply mean that the game will be going commericial, it will just also be free to download.

    One of the reasons I loved NS so much was my percieved perception that the devs would never "sell out".
    I played CS since the beginning and saw what an effect commericialisation had on the game.
    Needless to say I stopped playing soon afterwards.
    DoD, or Counter-Defeat as it's now known, is heading straight down the same path.

    Look at NS as it is now, with new players struggling. <b>Now multiply that but about one hundred times</b>.
    Then we'll have an idea of what commerical NS would be like.
    Worse still, these new players, as paying customers would demand an easier game without a learning curve.
    Countless more would hunt down cheats and hacks. The terrible fate of CS would haunt NS as well.

    But of course, you see the problem with me ranting on like this. Flayra has the right to get something out of all this, yes?
    Hence my dilema. Perhaps I always thought that Flayra would be happy to keep on making the game for free,
    that the praise of his fans would be enough to sustain him. But words don't pay the bills.
    Thus I think I have no right to complain if Flayra wants to sell NS. But I can't be happy with such a decision.
    I can only play a few last games then find something else to play.

    Truth be told I'd be much happier if say the Constellation program was expanded, and everyone who
    wanted to play NS needed an account which cost say $30. Something like this I would prefer an infinite
    number of times over NS boxed and packaged on shelves. If the central issue is that of money then I'd much
    rather FLayra got the money than Valve.
  • RamsesRamses Join Date: 2002-05-21 Member: 642Members
    edited June 2003
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Truth be told I'd be much happier if say the Constellation program was expanded, and everyone who
    wanted to play NS needed an account which cost say $30. Something like this I would prefer an infinite
    number of times over NS boxed and packaged on shelves.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Well, in my opinion there couldn't be anything better than Natural-Selection boxed on shelves. That is what NS and its developers deserves. And I can guarantee you that I'll pay for a boxed Natural-Selection package(unlike for the constellation program, since I don't like paying via Internet and live in europe).

    Also, Flayra never designed the game only for his own fun. He always thought about things like playerbase, learning curve etc., so this has nothing to do with "sell out" the game...
  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    but i want no dropships or vehicles.. they just dont fit into NS
  • DreadDread Join Date: 2002-07-24 Member: 993Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Asraniel+Jun 12 2003, 11:06 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Asraniel @ Jun 12 2003, 11:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> but i want no dropships or vehicles.. they just dont fit into NS <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Maybe they fit in to NS2 <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
    I doubt Flayra starts adding vehicles in to hl-engine.

    Ryo-Ohki: I share the same feeling with you. I just hope that Flayra won't change NS to please the masses. I think the current gameplay-style is the core of ns.
  • SentrySteveSentrySteve .txt Join Date: 2002-03-09 Member: 290Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--Ramses+Jun 12 2003, 09:03 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ramses @ Jun 12 2003, 09:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well, in my opinion there couldn't be anything better than Natural-Selection boxed on shelves. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yeh, becuase it would probably be your sexy box art! ^_^
  • tseepratseepra Join Date: 2002-12-11 Member: 10530Members
    But vechicles wouldn't fit in right now, I can picture a skulk getting run over by a halo jeep, and thats not nice. But ns2 does have a nice ring to it.
  • RyoOhkiRyoOhki Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12789Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well, in my opinion there couldn't be anything better than Natural-Selection boxed on shelves. That is what NS and its developers deserves. And I can guarantee you that I'll pay for a boxed Natural-Selection package(unlike for the constellation program, since I don't like paying via Internet and live in europe).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Don't get me wrong, I'd pay for NS because it's a brilliant game. I live in Australia so donating to the Constellation program is hard for me as well but not impossible. Yes, the developers do deserve something back, I'm in complete agreement. But I just don't want to see NS out exposed to the general public in stores. I've watched as commericalisation killed CS and DoD and I don't want to see NS go the same way. If the issue is cash, then that can be generated without a commerical release. If it's recognition, surely isn't the praise of hundreds of thousands of NS players enough? Not to mention to respect of the entire Internet modding community?
  • Mjr_BeatingsMjr_Beatings Join Date: 2002-12-21 Member: 11283Members
    What are the chances there would be any kind of vehicle on board a fairly small spacecraft? I think vehicles would not only ruin the gameplay, but the atmosphere too, I think the devs have the same opinion considering:
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Things that will not be going into NS due to engine/game design constraints:

    Another team/race

    More alien evolutions (Which doesn't necessarily mean that there won't be new abilities, we just can't afford, say, six abilities per class.)

    <b>Vehicles/mechs</b>

    Secondary fire options
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Taken from the Ideas FAQ post.
  • XeroXero Join Date: 2002-11-14 Member: 8565Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Imagine an on-going persistent war, with many battles happening simultaneously, a full chain of command, outdoor battles, dropships and vehicles, battle-ranked commanders<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Is it just me, or does this sound like another game just recently released? If so, I'll have you know I was in the PS beta and without a doubt I enjoy 30 minute rounds MUCH better than never ending warfare. After all, what's the point? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • SilverWolfSilverWolf Join Date: 2003-05-20 Member: 16540Members
    You guys have to understand, this is a VERY early version of the game still. There are many changes in 1.1 that makes it almost feel like a new game. All of what Flayra is doing is slowly developing what he originally had in mind for this game. All that he has done and is doing has only made the game MUCH better. Even stating that Flayra intends to sell out is doing him a grave injustice. He does not intend to sell out, he simply intends to perfect this game into something great. He has already done that but is working on making it appealing to the average new comer. Have patience, do not fret, Flayra's vision is nothing short of amazing and i cant wait for the things to come. Understand he is NOT paid for this and going commercial is a logical conclusion for putting so much work into a game for people. Do not hold this against him, its simply a means to get to an end. He has a plan, dont worry.

    With that said....

    STD-S][LveRW0lf*
  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    excuse me, but i love the NS indoor battles, i even dont WANT outdoor and vehicles.. its not NS any more with that... it cannot work.
  • ExerExer Join Date: 2003-02-05 Member: 13167Members
    I think it would great to see this go commercial. It's probably what they (Flay) had in mind at the start.
    DoD isn't ruined. It's a better game now. A few things got in that weren't great but most of those are going to be fixed in 1.1 anyways.

    I put my trust in the dev team. Go go go!!
  • Mjr_BeatingsMjr_Beatings Join Date: 2002-12-21 Member: 11283Members
    Outdoor maps would have to be <b>very</b> well designed to stop them being totally harsh on the aliens without any ranged weapons at the start. I can't see them being pulled off too well atm.
  • TyrainTyrain Join Date: 2003-01-03 Member: 11746Members
    Is it just me or does he meant NS2?

    Cause... HL vehicles... just lol by Kalvin Klein..........
  • MastodonMastodon Old Fogie Join Date: 2003-01-09 Member: 12052Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--Mjr.Beatings+Jun 12 2003, 11:57 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mjr.Beatings @ Jun 12 2003, 11:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Outdoor maps would have to be <b>very</b> well designed to stop them being totally harsh on the aliens without any ranged weapons at the start. I can't see them being pulled off too well atm. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yeah, they'd also have to trees or something like that for Skulks to still utilize their wall climbing.
  • FlayraFlayra Game Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment San Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
    There's a bit of confusion here. The end of that interview was stating the direction I'd like to go in the future (as in, sequel), not for NS retail.

    Keep in mind that doing NS retail would allow us to greatly improve NS as a game in nearly every way. I'm surprised anyone would think that getting time, money and resources to flesh it out could be a bad thing in any way! NS retail will be NS in it's current form, fully realized.
  • TheWizardTheWizard Join Date: 2002-12-11 Member: 10553Members, Constellation
    edited June 2003
    <!--QuoteBegin--Flayra+Jun 12 2003, 01:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra @ Jun 12 2003, 01:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There's a bit of confusion here.  The end of that interview was stating the direction I'd like to go in the future (as in, sequel), not for NS retail. 

    Keep in mind that doing NS retail would allow us to greatly improve NS as a game in nearly every way.  I'm surprised anyone would think that getting time, money and resources to flesh it out could be a bad thing in any way!  NS retail will be NS in it's current form, fully realized. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I'm most likely going to get flamed, banned, drawn and quartered for this but I can't help it:

    Flayra is a SELLOUT!!!!!




    [/sarcasm]
    I am always amused whenever any change in something either to improve it or attract a larger audience automatically registers it as sellingout.
  • TheWizardTheWizard Join Date: 2002-12-11 Member: 10553Members, Constellation
    I do have some reservations about Mods going retail. Often when mods go retail the publisher forces the designers to modify it in order to appeal to a larger audience.

    My great fear would be that a retail NS would become simplified in a bad way. Not simplified as in making it intuitive but rather letting the game do the work for the player. (1.0 snipers in DoD is a good example, they no longer drop out of zoom when moving)
  • ZunniZunni The best thing to happen to I&amp;S in a long while Join Date: 2002-11-26 Member: 10016Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hmm.  Retail?

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Will I ever have to pay for NS? Will we ever see NS on Steam?</b>
    Natural Selection will always be free. We are working with VALVe to get Natural Selection on Steam at release.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That's in the FAQ. Wonder what this all means. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    It means FAQ != Gospel

    Which opens the flood gates for the Grenade laser weapons with a sniper rifle for a secondary fire posts... AHHHH!!

    /me ducks under a table, closes his eyes, covers his ears and humms softly while rocking back and forth....
  • FlayraFlayra Game Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment San Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
    Who says the FAQ is no longer accurate? I could've easily changed that after the interview if I wanted.
  • ZunniZunni The best thing to happen to I&amp;S in a long while Join Date: 2002-11-26 Member: 10016Members
    I'm still covering my eyes and ears Flayra.. I can't hear you.... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • That_Annoying_KidThat_Annoying_Kid Sire of Titles Join Date: 2003-03-01 Member: 14175Members, Constellation
    ooooooh

    nothing beats updates


    /me goes searching
  • RyoOhkiRyoOhki Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12789Members
    Please please Flayra if it's money you want say the word and we'll donate! Just please don't throw our beloved game to the ravenous cheaters and immature pre-teens who ruined CS!

    Just a thought though:

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Keep in mind that doing NS retail would allow us to greatly improve NS as a game in nearly every way. I'm surprised anyone would think that getting time, money and resources to flesh it out could be a bad thing in any way! NS retail will be NS in it's current form, fully realized. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I find this statement a bit confusing. Firstly, you seem to be saying, Flayra, that NS IS going to be retail. It seems to be almost like you're stateing that an agreement with Valve has already been signed <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Was this your intention from the beginning? That eventually NS was going to be packaged, shrink-wrapped and sold to the highest bidder? Whilst I understand your logic, I must admit feeling slightly betrayed. My understanding, backed by the FAQ, was that this was never going to happen. It might sound naive but I kinda guessed you were above all that commericalism (or so rich that it didn't matter anyway <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->)

    Secondly, there's an assumption that NS retail will be how NS was intended to be all along. I find this a little hard to believe. Look at CS and DoD after they went retail: dumbed down gameplay, patches that drove experianced players away, and neither of those games had anywhere near the learning curve of NS. Arn't you concerned that your new bosses will demand exactly the same from you, and force you to change the game to how their new 12 year old customers want? Players like us are very differant from customers: we recognise that anything we suggest is just that, a suggestion. Customers though have paid for their product and demand satisfaction to THEIR wants and desires, not those of YOU. How can you assume that what you wanted NS to be all along is what Valve, or whoever purchases NS, will want?
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