Whats The Big Deal With F4?
Tiax
Join Date: 2003-05-28 Member: 16802Members
Join Date: 2003-05-28 Member: 16802Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Whys everyone hate it?</div> I see tons of people who seem to think F4ing is lower then cheating, Im curious as to why?
In some cases its understandable to be frustrated, for instance if someone just F4's at the start to unbalance the teams. But then again thats more like quitting then F4ing since they really have nothing to gain by sitting in the ready room.
In my case, I will always F4 when the games 'over'. I was just in a server last night (I believe the sx server) and the aliens were saying "Don't kill them, lets just play with them" and they sat around the spawn portal health spraying people to death for about 5 minutes. At that point, and probably before, I would F4 because its pointless. I like to play the game, not sit around in a losing game where I just spawn and die.
The other time I tend to want to just F4 and start over is when you get a really stupid com. One of those people who jumps in, drops two armories, drops an IP, and then starts giving everyone waypoints. Then gets frustrated and quits the game. At that point there is usually little chance to recover, especially when the aliens already have 2 hives and marines have nothing (no upgrades, no nothing...well, except 2 armories).
Only thing I can think, as the reason people hate F4...is because they enjoy the games that just drone on and on even though there is already a clear winner. True there are times (and ive played some) where aliens had 3 hives and marines came back to win or vs versa. However usually, you can spot what game is 'over'.
Just curious what everyone else thinks about F4?
Edit: Oh yeah, one other time ill usually F4 is if the teams are like 6-7 on 3-4. You get those games when everyone joins and everythings even then one or two people instantly quit offsetting the teams. Usually ill F4 to restart the round to rebalance teams since it'll end up as slaughter anyway....though I usually use my judgement since sometimes a team of 4 skilled can win. In fact I like the challenge uneven teams causes (when im on the weaker side) but not when it results in spawn kills and just bornig slaughter.
In some cases its understandable to be frustrated, for instance if someone just F4's at the start to unbalance the teams. But then again thats more like quitting then F4ing since they really have nothing to gain by sitting in the ready room.
In my case, I will always F4 when the games 'over'. I was just in a server last night (I believe the sx server) and the aliens were saying "Don't kill them, lets just play with them" and they sat around the spawn portal health spraying people to death for about 5 minutes. At that point, and probably before, I would F4 because its pointless. I like to play the game, not sit around in a losing game where I just spawn and die.
The other time I tend to want to just F4 and start over is when you get a really stupid com. One of those people who jumps in, drops two armories, drops an IP, and then starts giving everyone waypoints. Then gets frustrated and quits the game. At that point there is usually little chance to recover, especially when the aliens already have 2 hives and marines have nothing (no upgrades, no nothing...well, except 2 armories).
Only thing I can think, as the reason people hate F4...is because they enjoy the games that just drone on and on even though there is already a clear winner. True there are times (and ive played some) where aliens had 3 hives and marines came back to win or vs versa. However usually, you can spot what game is 'over'.
Just curious what everyone else thinks about F4?
Edit: Oh yeah, one other time ill usually F4 is if the teams are like 6-7 on 3-4. You get those games when everyone joins and everythings even then one or two people instantly quit offsetting the teams. Usually ill F4 to restart the round to rebalance teams since it'll end up as slaughter anyway....though I usually use my judgement since sometimes a team of 4 skilled can win. In fact I like the challenge uneven teams causes (when im on the weaker side) but not when it results in spawn kills and just bornig slaughter.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Then you have someone in the readyroom, who says "I told you so", when it was them who screwed you and not the fact that the marines/aliens had something.
:D
"OMG Fades, F4"
"OMG HMG's, F4"
F4 sucks when most people want to use it, it also robs the "winners" of the round the satisfaction of wiping out the other team...
Though as with anything F4 has many good uses (AFK, the lone hiding marine giving up, etc)
I also hate when a marine team loses with only one member left alive. Who promptly builds a comm chair in a pipe and avoids every form of attack like that. Aliens can do nothing but hit F4 to finish the game. At that point the marine mocks: "I winned! yu0 = pwned!" <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Sirus' point continued -- the games not over until it's over and you all are taken to readyroom by the server.
I guess in some cases such as "fades, F4" is lame. But F4ing so that one stupid marine who thinks its funny to hide wont' slow up the game is fine. Yet it seems like F4 period is looked down upon...when you should be looking at reasons.
I think to many times though, the alien team tries to drag the game out just so they can rack up kills. To me its pointless, even when on alien. At that point the games over and the challenge is gone, so why waste the time to make your score say 15 instead of 10? Afterall, score is meaningless in a team game.
There are times when a team comes back to win but I usually play on the same servers and I got a pretty good sense of who has what skill. Not to mention watching the team play. In many cases its simple to look at your team and realize "nope...no way we are gonna win". At that point, to me, its just not worth playing.
I also hate it when people stack the teams. Whats the point in playing 5 rounds if each round the one team slaughters the other because its skilled vs noobs? Its boring no matter which team your on because its not really a game. In cases like that I feel the people should just load up a map with tons of stuff to shoot and play offline.
unless of coarse, as you say, they are laming about keepin gu alive for kills etc i think f4 is fair in that circumstance.
there may be other circumstance that ive forgotten at the moment, such is the way of the world
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I also hate it when people stack the teams. Whats the point in playing 5 rounds if each round the one team slaughters the other because its skilled vs noobs? Its boring no matter which team your on because its not really a game. In cases like that I feel the people should just load up a map with tons of stuff to shoot and play offline. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't play with $#^*&#^(($ 's who team stack/deathmatch?
Problem solved.
nice clear and simple rules <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
it's annoying, so if you don't like it play on a server like that,
If you don't mind and want games to end by muppets who **** their pants when they see a fade, play anywhere <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
No, that is wrong. It goes like this:
"Lets play a round, but not finish it, unless we are winning".
F4 because you THINK you might lose is lame. This is different from the situations below which are gurantees.
F4 because the marines have two hives totally locked down (most maps), and are not finishing the game because they want to "tech everyone up (give the whole team JP/HMG or HA/HMG or GL)" is NOT lame.
F4 because the marines are spawncamping the aliens when the aliens have one hive and no structures and the marines have level 3 tech is NOT lame.
F4 because the ALIENS are spawncamping the marines is NOT lame.
F4 because the marines have almost nothing left and the aliens are not confronting them just so they can get their third hive abilities is NOT lame.
F4 because the comm went llama and dropped 4 comm chairs and recycled the res tower is NOT lame.
F4 because your comm won't eject and seems AFK or is a complete n00b (not newbie) is NOT lame.
That should cover most scenarios. Take it as you will.
We onos'd their base. It really is not over untill it's over.
The problem is alot of people get upset when you F4 because it means they couldnt' get their precious 3 hive ability or their HMG/HA. When the games being stalled just so one or more poeple on the other team can get some higher level abilities for a slaughter...there is nothing wrong with F4ing. In fact thats probably why its IN the game.
To add to your lis though: When the game just started and its very uneven teams (one team has 2+ more then the other) then its probably safe to F4 to 'fix' the teams.
nice clear and simple rules <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
it's annoying, so if you don't like it play on a server like that,
If you don't mind and want games to end by muppets who **** their pants when they see a fade, play anywhere <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Probably explains why I never play with you.
When F4'ing is treated the same way as cheating, you have the wrong concept of the game. Last I checked this was a part RTS part FPS. Last I checked in Starcraft, not everyone stays to the very end. After about an hour of playing, your crushed teammate finally dies, and three battlecruiser groups begin to fly towards you, do you sit and wait for the 8-15 minute battle of him wiping you out, or do you resign (giving the victors their victory sooner) and play another game? Not F4'ing is for CS'ing llamas, imo. /rant
I really wish you guys would stop bringing up this topic, it's just as bad as the Bunny-hop no bunny-hop discussion.
<!--QuoteBegin--Speed 2 Dave+Jun 11 2003, 04:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Speed 2 Dave @ Jun 11 2003, 04:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Last I checked this was a part RTS part FPS. Last I checked in Starcraft, not everyone stays to the very end. After about an hour of playing, your crushed teammate finally dies, and three battlecruiser groups begin to fly towards you, do you sit and wait for the 8-15 minute battle of him wiping you out, or do you resign (giving the victors their victory sooner) and play another game? Not F4'ing is for CS'ing llamas, imo. /rant
I really wish you guys would stop bringing up this topic, it's just as bad as the Bunny-hop no bunny-hop discussion.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS has enough FPS elements to set it apart from SC. By F4ing, you are not just conceeding, you are also letting your team mates down. IT is the equivelent of being on a team in SC, and as soon as it seems like you could die, you leave, allowing your team mates to be slaughterd.
Thanks for the analogy.
However, the only time I F4 is when I'm the last person left at the end of a game and there's some comedy value to be had by saying "You'll never take me alive !!2" and F4ing. Besides, generally I wish people would just F4 at the end (ie no hives/IPs) instead of finding somewhere to hide and forcing everyone to wait a while before the next game.
Well I guess I could say that by admiting defeat you are showing you have no pride, honor or loyalty, but few game geeks would care. What they may care about it the fact that they are letting their team mates down.
I don't understand why some people feel dissatisfied when the other team resigns. A win is a win. They should be happy they got it so easily.
This "sportsmanship" concept is a social issue and only relevant if you <i>know</i> the people you're playing with. It's about trust and visible commitment. This concept isn't applicable to random, anonymous Internet players.
If the enemy team is being unsportsmanlike and just doing something to just gain score/tech when they CLEARLY could defeat you at that instant, then F4ing to end the game is a valid solution. It's why it's there. If they get annoyed because they didn't get to 'finish you off', it's their own fault. They had the chance to, and they chose not to -- if they don't feel it's as satisfying as a win, maybe next time they'll think again and finish you off sooner.
If, however, you're only losing and haven't lost (i.e. onos swarming your base while your fallen GL is being picked up over and over again by stock spawning marines) that ain't cause for F4ing. In that case, you do let your team down, and that's a big no-no.
People have real lives to attend to. Drawing out a game just to rack up your score is wasting everyone's time. End the game and savor your win, or risk having the game ended for you. That's why F4 is there.
The point is not the fact that you lose, it's <b>how</b> you lose. Do you try to go down fighting ? Maybe theres a 1% chance you'll be able to turn things around. Or do you play "chess grandmaster" and try to predict that in 10 minutes the game will be over anyway so lets just end it now. This game is not chess !
Picture this: "Ok guys let get ready for that final assualt"....*sounds of other team f4-ing*..."oh...that was fun". Get the picture ? It makes for an extreme anti-climax.
And before someone comments on how immature I am because I obviously only want to try out an HMG/HA toy..or maybe an Onos or some such nonsense I'll say this:<b> The objective of the game is to wipe the other team out completely, including their bases of operation. Until that is done, I feel like the round has not ended. When the other team just vanishes/f4s and leaves their structures in place it feels like there is still work to be done ! Anti-Climax, non-satisfying,no-closure.</b>
Lastly, a note about fun. If the other team is being lame i.e. spawn killing for the hell of it (keeping you alive when its obvious they could finish you at any point)...then f4 is justified. Short of that though, the sporting thing to do is to play the round finished.
If you had any skill, f4ing would not be a viable tactic for you, there is almost always hope, the only time where f4 is acceptable is when the other team is being a bunch of llama morons or if your team is doing the same.
Seriously, why are you people afraid to accept a loss?
<!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> seems to = ---------------> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
Teams:6v6
Situation:cargo taken by marines, red room hostile, viaduct not a nice place to be. 3 of our brothers have f4ed. the 3 that are left, are a gorge a lerk and a skulk. 5 minutes pass of 6 v 3, the gorge sneaks up viaduct hive. the skulk evolves to a fade, the lerk helps him into red room and umbras him. red room is ours! our 3 brothers who f4ed are now wondering why the games not over, they rejoin us, and explain how much they suck as they "THOUGHT" the game was over so f4ed.
The aliens did eventually lose this game, but the point is, Dont F4 untill the enemy has breached your last line and there really is no hope what so ever.
e.g Aliens are sitting in that position where they can bite the IP BUT if someone spawns they are instant killed.
BUT
only if you are the last marine to alive.
f4 shoul be reserved to the last TWO players alive in a team only, imo. a games not over until at least half the team cant respawn, although many times ive seen one person bring it back.
but then again i play on british servers, where MOST people have loyalty and honour.
In my case I know im good at predicting the outcome of a game. Ive very rarely wrong. I can tell by the teams at the start whether one side will get slaughtered or not (and I try to avoid those games...slaughter, no matter which side your on, is no fun to me).
In my experience with NS (which is pretty extensive), unless sometimes horribly stupid, crazy, or downright buggy happens, a game CAN be decided in the first 4 minutes.
Here are some examples, and what they cause to HELP "end" a game quickly:
1: Killing the first built alien res node, basicly this hurts the aliens a LOT! Because you seriously hurt thier res intake early...which slows down the building of DCs, meaning no early carapace, meaning its easier for marines to take both hives and defend them.
2: Killing a re-locate, especially AFTER the chair has been dropped, this is obvious because the comm wasted 30 res early, and base building is slowed, meaning the gorge can probably safety get up decent RTs/DCs before the marines really move out of their base.
3: Locking down two hives for any decent amount of time, simply holding the hives, even if you lose one, might buy the marines enough time to get the tech needed to kill the original or building hive before it can finish, even if the aliens are at some point able to take it back and put a hive up. This is why aliens quit in 2 hive lockdowns, because even if they take it back, it won't be finished in time to get any fades to counter the soon coming or already released HMG/JP death squad.
4: Losing the proto, before JP finish, in a JP rush, this for all purposes ends the marines chances of winning, because they won't get the res for another proto, plus another 25 for JP before the 2nd hive is done. This is a rare one, but its still on the list.
5: Losing a hive, then all the fades, it basicly equals death, because if the marines were strong enough to kill the hive to begin with, then they are too strong to kill with only skulks to get the hive BACK, game over, gg.
There are many other minor ones, which can basicly make or break a game for either side, some obvious, some not.
But don't be fooled people, there ARE times when "not giving up" and such is rather stupid...if you lost, you lost, suck it up, and start a new game, don't drag it on and on and on and on and ON till you hear the hive dinging away just because you think in your wildest imagination there MIGHT be some crazy chance you'll win. It is possible to come back from the above, but its DAMN hard, and it requires a very high level of teamwork which is rarely found on the pubs.
There is no such thing as an infinitium spawncamp. No **** on earth alive will dothis unless they are impotent or freaking stoned and spawn camp the aliens/marines till the Sun supernovas (IE: A good billions of years). Keep trying. They want to have some fun, so give it to them. Its not everyday the opertunity to spawncamp, and its fun sometimes for both sides. Example given, Aliens spawncamped us on ns_ninja_fall. Then the Gorge came and started to build ots along with babblers. This apparently got the Comm really **** and gave him god-like powers. He hopped out, wasted the gorge, and then spammed IPs. A miraculous comeback, which ended in us wasting an onos that dropped and making the game last 30 minutes longer in a kickass gunfight.
Cheap tactics are: ok. A massive rush of highly skilled skulks in the beginning on ns_eclipse wasted a good number of the marines and the IP. Gorge then dropped DC outside the door, and then pwn. Its too bad, the comm didn't give us mines...
Summary: Just because your an ignorant miscreant who refuses to do simple things to keep cheap things from happening doesn't mean F4. And Llama actions deserve a bite in the **** from a Skulk, no the F4 of the whole Alien team.
*Ending Rant*