Jp Fix
clamatius
Join Date: 2003-03-27 Member: 14948Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-03-27 Member: 14948Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Any interest in JP bugfix for v1.04?</div> Hypothetically, if the framerate bug in jetpacks which lets marines fly indefinitely and hence win with HMG/JP could be fixed, would anyone be interested in having that slight tweak?
(I'm not actually sure it would fix the whole problem, since maybe HMG rushes would be a problem instead, but at least the skulks would get in on the action a little)
(I'm not actually sure it would fix the whole problem, since maybe HMG rushes would be a problem instead, but at least the skulks would get in on the action a little)
Comments
If you mean for 1.1, well, it is fixed...
If they are, I guess I can write up some installation instructions and upload it.
You can download it <a href='http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=76903&release_id=164268' target='_blank'>here</a>.
Here's the text from the README explaining what it does.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->JPN (Jet Pack Nerf) is a minor tweak to Natural Selection, the Half-Life mod. It fixes the frame-rate dependence of the jetpack in NS v1.0 through v1.04.
For installation instructions, please see JPN_INSTALL.txt.
JPN adds 2 important server variables: jpn_jp_discharge and jpn_jp_recharge. The values of these variables controls how fast the jetpack uses energy and recharges energy.
To modify them, type the variable name and the new value you want on the console, or add them to your server config file.
Example:
jpn_jp_discharge 0
would make the jetpack not use any energy, and marines could fly infinitely.
jpn_jp_recharge 0
would make it impossible to recharge the jetpack, hence it wouldn't work.
jpn_jp_recharge 500.0
would make the jetpack recharge in 2 seconds, since the maximum energy value is 1000.0, and the server variables are in units of energy/time.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you find JPN useful or have any problems with it, let me know. If you run this on a public server, <b>please</b> add something to your welcome text and/or server title explaining that you are not running the default server build, as you should with any gameplay-affecting metamod.
The Linux build should be available in the next couple of days if I get time to do it. The source code is also available in CVS at <a href='http://whichbot.com' target='_blank'>whichbot.com</a>.
<edit>If a forum admin is reading this, I guess this thread belongs in Servers and Server Operators. Oops.</edit>
Good work!
Ok, I'll bite.
I'd guess it was missed because it takes a ridiculous amount of testing with good players to find the best tactics, so the best tactics don't come out immediately. The best tactics have changed over time (for example, in v1.0, turrets were overpowered and overused).
You have exactly the same problem in another game type I like, collectible card games. Often, a card-set is released, and since there's so many more players than testers they find an "exploit" combination of cards that happens to be too good and breaks the game.
Sadly, if a tactic like JP/HMG exists that is just plain better than any other tactic, once the competitive players know about it, they will tend to use it all the time.
On the mechanics of why the problem occurred in the first place, I understand the framerate dependence issue has been a common mistake in many other Half-Life mods as well. It's a fairly easy mistake to make, to be honest.
On your somewhat nasty-sounding comment on the beta being an alpha, you are incorrect. A beta is feature-complete, but needs debugging (and balancing issues count as debugging).
Hope I answered your question. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
good job m8, I hope that as long as 1.1 isnt out yet all servers start using this <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
jpn_jp_recharge 200
jpn_jp_discharge 300
so if you do not edit your config files, that's what they'll be.
Note that it is either discharging or recharging, so it won't do both at the same time. The upshot is with the default settings, if you have full power, you can fly for 3.3 seconds and then you must recharge at least a bit to take off again. Recharging to full would take 5 seconds.
sounds like a damn good idea, welldone
jpn_jp_recharge 200
jpn_jp_discharge 300
so if you do not edit your config files, that's what they'll be.
Note that it is either discharging or recharging, so it won't do both at the same time. The effect of the default settings is that if you have full power, you can fly for 3.3 seconds and then you must recharge at least a bit to take off again. Recharging to full would take 5 seconds. You recharge any time you're not hitting jump.
This (in theory) should let you jetpack into vents and zoom up to avoid skulks, but not let you hover round the hive peppering it like you're some kind of giant death bee. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Also on that note, if you're going to be taking out one abuse you should remember there's almost half a dozen other FPS abuses. Skulk leap damage, Onos charge damage, marine build time, and I believe some other little things are linked to FPS. A skulk leaping for 700 damage @99fps is pretty friggin scary.
This made me laugh quite a lot.
Good job with the jp fix, I'll try to find a server running it as soon as my HL is running again.
I seem to remember that the actual problem was the THRUST caused by a 100 FPS, not the recharge rate
thus why if you set fps max to 10 and try to take off YOU CAN'T, and this dosn't really fix that (as far as I can tell).
Note, My memory might be faluty, could some one more knowledgable then me coment?
Yah, just tested this out.
with an FPS of 20 I basicaly can make big 'jumps' with slow falling rate, but I couldn't even hit the cieling in the bast marine spawn.
And recharge rate was the same (with high FPS and low)
Well, in any event, the jetpack power should hopefully be reduced enough that the JP/HMG tactic is no longer the best tactic, so I think the metamod should have the desired effect.
I know about the other FPS problems JesusC mentioned, but I don't think any of them has a really nasty impact on gameplay like the JP bug except maybe the leap bug. I think there's already a fix for that one out.
i'm very impressed, and i take back what i said to start with lol.
*2 tails up*
Well, it's very easy. First, you must invent a flux capacitor and a graviton drive. Once you've got those, it's child's play to get your time machine fully functional. After that, you can just go back through time a few times to "double up" your spare hour of time to get a bit of coding in.
That, or the change I made wasn't that complicated. Take your pick.
Sadly, it's not the marine 1.1 jetpack right now, because as Thansal pointed out part of the problem is thrust rate, rather than recharge rate. That means that low-fps users are still kinda screwed. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Admittedly, fixing the low-fps problem wasn't the major point of me doing it, but still...
I would love to hear back from people who think they're good with a jetpack and high FPS whether this tweak made the jetpack totally useless or whether it's still overpowered in the JP/HMG combination.
the 1.1 JP (as far as I know, you obviously know more <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->) is a jumpjet more then a jetpack.
It alows for longer/higher jumps, not flight
and with about 20fps you get jump jets, not flight (with 100 you get flight)
the marines never having to land comes from 2 fold problems:
1) you odn't have to land to recharge (I tihnk you do in 1.1)
2) if I can create enugh upward momentum and then cut the jets I will keep going up, but have my fuel recharge enugh to not only break my fall but to send me back up well before I touch the ground. there is the problem
and why this bug 'sliped through' is b/c the PTs just didn't use JPs (favoring HAs) mistakes like that wont be made this time around (I hope)
after all, we learn from our mistakes <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
<li>Added Linux build.
<li>Fixed a stupid bug which caused Metamod to generate warning messages.
<li>Fixed an even stupider bug that was making the metamod much less efficient than it should be (probably wasn't noticeable, though).
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Enjoy!
It says: INVALID ZIP STRUCTURE when I try to open it <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ah, NM, works now.
It should be ok now.
Also is it possible to make JPs (or the whole proto lab) need the MT upgrade first? so u have to spend 22 for IP, 25 for obs, 45 for MT + ARMS + PROTO and 25 for JP, could slow down the rushes..... as suddenly it takes 207 res to get the JP side of it up and running. and a further 60? for armoury and upgrade. for a whopping 267 res, that will stop a JP rush a bit longer.
Sorry for writing this, i have no idea myself how to make mm plugins or id try <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
The way recharging works is that it only recharges when you're not activating the jetpack (hitting space). I could make it so it only recharges on the ground, but that doesn't seem to add a lot of value for a lot of complexity and possible bugs.
If you try it on the default settings, you'll find that it's pretty difficult to stay in the air for a long time, although you can get a long way round the map in the air providing you're prepared to blow all the jetpack fuel. 5 seconds for a full recharge is a long time, believe me. It's kinda fun (in my humble opinion) to try to balance the fuel usage, actually - do I use all my fuel, then get stuck for ages, or land for a second and take off again?
Good to hear from scott that things seem to be working as intended. If any other server ops are trying this (especially clan server ops!), please let me know if it's working for you too, or whether people are still winning with JP/HMG rush.
On modifying the resource model: I don't think the speed of reaching the top of the tech tree is the real problem - the problem was infinite flying. Why do surgery when you can use a Band-Aid?