My First Ns Map. Wip But Screenshots Available!

anty · May 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">need feedback during the mapping process</div> First: Sorry for my bad english, I'm Austrian.

Because I need some feedback, I'm posting some screenshots of my first NS map. I've postet them also in the our clanforum, but I think I'll get more feedback here <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>
I don't have a name for this map, but a name isn't a map <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>
The whole map should look like an advanced space-station. Yeah, it <b>should</b> *g*

BTW, I can't mention it enough times: <b>This map isn't finished now! WIP!</b>

This is the first hive:
<img src='http://mitglied.lycos.de/blablablag/ns_wip1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
<img src='http://mitglied.lycos.de/blablablag/ns_wip2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>

The upper right textur is now replaced by a "half-infested" texture. but it looks nearly like this screenshot:
<img src='http://mitglied.lycos.de/blablablag/ns_wip3.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>

Other screenshots...
<img src='http://www.hakke.at/anty/forum/ns_wip4.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
<img src='http://www.hakke.at/anty/forum/ns_wip5.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>

Now the "pink section" starts:
<img src='http://www.hakke.at/anty/forum/ns_wip6.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>

Hammer screenshot that I have to remake because of the bad placing of the sky-brushes:
<img src='http://www.hakke.at/anty/forum/ns_wip7.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image'>

Here the very first version of the room:
<img src='http://www.hakke.at/anty/forum/ns_wip8.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>

anty · May 2003

But now it looks like this (the pink textures are animated and the energy-core in the middle is also moving):
<img src='http://www.hakke.at/anty/forum/ns_wip9.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>

The second hive. I've to make some contrast into this room, you can hardly see the hive:
<img src='http://www.hakke.at/anty/forum/ns_wip10.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
<img src='http://www.hakke.at/anty/forum/ns_wip11.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>

Now it's your turn. Gimme feedback plz!

The_Real_Quasar · May 2003

I just LOVE that "pink" area! You've got some great architecture round the whole thing!
Very nice work! Can't wait to see more <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>
Oh, and you've got good english too <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Lazer · May 2003

That has the quality to become official if you ask me... now to wait for a released version to test gameplay...

Wolhay · May 2003

I'm not too fond of the contrast of green and red light at the first hive. It makes it look like the hive area is glowing.

The squares in the texture in the first "other screenshot" (ns_wip4.jpg) does not "align" the door which makes it look illogical but you could still get away with it since it's still visually appealing.

The blue lights(?) in the pink tunnel doesn't match the pink space in my opinion and I think that it would look better if they have a darker hue.

I like the architecture of most of the map and it somehow reminds me of the gory "infestations" in the game Fallout.

RPG_Jssmfulhud · May 2003

I'm concerned about the Hammer picture... It looks like that you're building "room by room"...

Build cubes and hollow them out or make wall by wall, it's the same... This is gonna make some serious compile problems...

anty · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I'm not too fond of the contrast of green and red light at the first hive. It makes it look like the hive area is glowing.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Yep, I've made the hive glowing green. There's a map, I don't know which one, where one hive is also lightning green. (official map).
But I'll think about it. Maybe I'll add a green "Exit"-Sign and a door...? Then you have a source.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>The squares in the texture in the first "other screenshot" (ns_wip4.jpg) does not "align" the door which makes it look illogical but you could still get away with it since it's still visually appealing.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Sorry, I don't know what you mean. The door is always oben, because it's blocked. You can see the sparks at the screenshot I think... Anyway, plz describe what you think is wrong, I want to correct it. If necessary mail me the screenshot with a red arrow on it <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>The blue lights(?) in the pink tunnel doesn't match the pink space in my opinion and I think that it would look better if it was a darker hue.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
The space is black with white stars. (standard sky of HL). The pink "windows" are laser barriers. You want the pink part darker, or the blue lights darker?

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I like the architecture of most of the map and it somehow reminds me of the gory "infestations" in the game Fallout.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Never played it, sorry *g*

What I've to do:
<ul>
<li>Source of the green light at the hives
<li>Pink area darker (or the blue lights?)
<li>Play the game "Fallout" to get new ideas of the architecture.
</ul>
Ok, thx for feedback, I'm currently working at the next part.

Edit: </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I'm concerned about the Hammer picture... It looks like that you're building "room by room"...
Build cubes and hollow them out or make wall by wall, it's the same... This is gonna make some serious compile problems... </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
So if I undersand you correctly, I shouldn't build rooms by cutting them out, but neither by building the walls around them.
I do <b>not</b> carve. I build wall by wall. why should this cause compile problems?

DrunkenMonkey · May 2003

The pink area looks cool. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

neonfaktory · May 2003

I haven't mapped for NS yet (too busy with other projects) but from what I hear, NS mappers tend to struggle with many limits (textures or clip nodes or something), I don't know exactly.

What RPG was saying is that it looks like you are building "room by room", as in, making a room, and more specifically, <i>adding all the details</i> to the rooms as you go. The problem with this is that perhaps a week from now, you'll have 4 of 10 of your rooms completed, with all the time consuming details, and find out your map won't compile because you've reached your geometry limit. Now you are kinda screwed, and have to go back through all your hard work and <i>remove</i> those details, just so you can complete your map.

Like I said, I haven't actually mapped for NS yet, and I haven't read into any of the mapping standards, but I would assume the best way to do it is to create boxes of the general layout of your map - as little detail as possible. Then <i>equally</i>, through each of the rooms, keep adding details to them until you reach your creative limit or the game limit for geometry. Not only does this guarantee you have at least the whole map intact (even without the details), but also lets you test general balance and timing much earlier.

But this is just my personally opinion on how I would go about it if I ever get to making a map - maybe the way I do is wrong <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Wolhay · May 2003

What I meant with the illogical aligned texture was that the texture doesn't show a logical symmetry around the door. It's especially the square in the upper left corner of the door which looks odd since it's not only lines that disappear into the opening but a great chunk that is being taken by the opening. It's not necessarily wrong but it's something that I think doesn't look "right" (enter smilie here).
If that doesn't make sense I'll attach an image with highlighted "errors" if you want.

<b>The space is black with white stars. (standard sky of HL). The pink "windows" are laser barriers. You want the pink part darker, or the blue lights darker?</b>
It's the blue lights that I think would look better in a darker colour.
When I had posted it I noticed that what I had written wasn't specific enough so I edited it but you were too quick for me.

anty · May 2003

I've a reason why a build room by room: I normaly build my maps by creating a rough build and then I'm **** off, because I don't know what to add in my rooms. If I have to think how I will create my room before I build it, I build it like I want it to be.
I've a big r_speeds problem in the pink area as you can see at the picture (933 wpolys max.) So I'm working to get these speeds lower, but it will result in less details.
But I'll do something what I've never done in any map until now: I'll try to control the compiler with hint brushes, I think I can get lower wpolys with that methode too.
I'll show you a screenshot of a CS map which I've made without thinking of Details:
<img src='http://www.hakke.at/anty/online/img/games/counter-strike/maps/cs_oase.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
Here you can see: It would be nice if I would add details, but I'm too lazy creating rocks by using hours and hours by building them and in the end nobody cares. So I make room by room, show it to other people and then I know what people want and can add/delete parts. But an important thing is: I've a motivation to build another room because people like what I'm doing <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

I know that there are some problems with details and limits. Thx for the advice.

What I've to do:
<ul>
<li>Source of the green light at the hives
<li>Blue lights in pink area darker
<li>Play the game "Fallout" to get new ideas of the architecture
<li>realign texture at door (think I've got it <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> )
</ul>

Windelkron · May 2003

WOW, that's some nice work! When I saw "My First NS Map" I thought it would be like a textured cube with a resource node in the middle or something <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

The infestation is AWESOME. The only thing is where it ends, it ends awfully abruptly. Maybe make the infestation continue to the threshold of the door and then stop somewhere inside the door.

anty · May 2003

lol, first NS map doesn't mean first <b>map</b> ever done by me <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>
The infested problem, yes... I've noticed it but didn't cared about it. So now I have *g*
thx for the commend about this!

What I've to do:
<ul>
<li>Source of the green light at the hives
<li>Blue lights in pink area darker
<li>Play the game "Fallout" to get new ideas of the architecture
<li>realign texture at door
<li>make infested textures ending smother
</ul>

Fieari · May 2003

The "pink rooms"... with the energy core... I love how you can see into space, and the forcefielding texture looks great, probably even better animated. However, the floor looks very... flat. And boring. And worse, surgically clean. I think it would work better if you broke the floor up a bit... texture wise and brush wise. For such an interesting set of walls and ceiling, the floor needs a little bit of work.

anty · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>The "pink rooms"... with the energy core... I love how you can see into space, and the forcefielding texture looks great, probably even better animated. However, the floor looks very... flat. And boring. And worse, surgically clean. I think it would work better if you broke the floor up a bit... texture wise and brush wise. For such an interesting set of walls and ceiling, the floor needs a little bit of work.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I fully agree with you, but look at the speeds! I'll see what I can do...

BTW, I've found a bad screenshot about the green-hive-light we were discussing at the top:
<img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/images/pt0528ns_bast0028.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
dont know where the light is comming from...

sorry for sooo many pictures. but I can explain more in pictures than in english *g*

moultano · May 2003

you are going to want to add some sort of ship hull outside the entrances to the purple areas. Otherwise you'll be able to look back at what should be the ship and just see stars. Unless you're going to have a backstory involving cloaking technology, its going to be pretty disorienting. The purple areas also could also use more contrast. It looks too much like something at disneyworld at the moment.
Looks really good though. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> good luck.

ssjyoda · May 2003

I really like, in that pink area, lower one of the 4 sections, and connect with stairs, but keep the top at the same height. Just lower the floor and connect with stairs, or a ramp if u can't spare the polys. The pod with the node, lower that one, that would help break it up.

anty · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>you are going to want to add some sort of ship hull outside the entrances to the purple areas.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I'm working on that case. In the version now, there are some walls.
</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> lower one of the 4 sections, and connect with stairs, but keep the top at the same height</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Hm, I don't think this will look to good, because I've currently no idea how I should add the stairs/ramps so it looks nice.
I'll have to find a average (hope I'm allowed to use this word in this sentence <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> ) between the Outer Area (space station) and the floor. I don't think it makes sence to higher the wpoly only to get more eyecandy. It's still too high. Maybe I'll move the pink passage and add a non-pink room between them. So you can't see from one room to the other. This would lower the wpolys.

Trojan · May 2003

Looks outstanding, has some real potential. Keep it up, this could go a long way <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

tseepra · May 2003

I'm just afraid for the skulks in the pink room, not really any places to hide.

moultano · May 2003

Put the null texture on some of the textures outside of the area that you can't see. On the roof for instance if you haven't already. That could help with wpolys a bit.

Papercut · May 2003

I know where that green light in that screenshots comes from..

Its from those flies or whatever it is in that room.

Redford · May 2003

933 wpoly is still too much man, I think you'll have to tone that room down if you want any chance for it to be official.

anty · May 2003

What I've to do:
<ul>
<li>Source of the green light at the hives <b>done</b>
<li>Blue lights in pink area darker <b>done</b>
<li>realign texture at door
<li>Play the game "Fallout" to get new ideas of the architecture.
<li>make infested textures ending smother
<li>Null Tex replace <b>done</b>
</ul>

I don't think it makes sence to post a screenshot of each edited part, but I'll post the "green light source" picture:
<img src='http://www.hakke.at/anty/forum/ns_wip12.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>

Edit:
Anyone know why this compile cuts the leaves in this way, so I get these lines:
<img src='http://www.hakke.at/anty/forum/ns_wip13.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
I've tried to place a skip and hint brush before it, to force the compiler to make a leaf-cut as <b>I</b> want it, but nothing happens. still the same. I could save a lot of polys by reducing this faces. These brushes are 192 x 208. so also if the compiler cuts the face into 224x224 (224 is the max. leaf width I think) it wouldn't fit into the screenshot. so what can I do?

uffo · May 2003

umm those light textures are maybe too bright while the other areas are darker.
you could consider making illusionary object with same texture (but different name) on it,
so it wouldn't seem too damn bright <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

Jezpuh · May 2003

Nice map anty, I like the purple part =)

Wolhay · May 2003

I've marked the edges as requested.

Supernorn · May 2003

the use of infestation is some of the best i have seen, and the second hive room looks as if it had a purpose. Good work <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Not too keen on the purple though, maybe make it more skulk friendly?

anty · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> umm those light textures are maybe too bright while the other areas are darker.
you could consider making illusionary object with same texture (but different name) on it,
so it wouldn't seem too damn bright </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
"those light textures" -> which do you mean? Do you mean the blue lights? These I've already made darker <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>
If you mean another light texture, let me know...

What I have to do:
<ul>
<li>realign texture at door
<li>Play the game "Fallout" to get new ideas of the architecture.
<li>make infested textures ending smother
<li>pink area more skulk friendly
</ul>

infi · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (anty @ May 23 2003, 08:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> so what can I do?  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
try using "hint" brushes

anty · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>try using "hint" brushes</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I already said it doesn't help <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>
Somehow the compiler ignores my hint-brush.

My First Ns Map. Wip But Screenshots Available!

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