Time Travel N Stuff

Brave_Ulysses · May 2003

I travel in time constantly. Into The Future at an approximate rate of 60 seconds a minute.

acer_r1 · May 2003

if you chamged the past, an alternate future would come into exestance, kinda like Chrono Cross. Or maby the Langoleris will eat you.........

dr_d · May 2003

Time travel in any understandable terms isn't possible because time isn't linear. All events exist in the same space, in simplistic terms the you of 1 second ago and the you of 1 second from now both exist, and in a second you will simply shift consciousness to the next one. Most ideas of time travel follow the rules of some kind of linear time line, the truth is it's more like the head of a pin than a line.

Now I'm sure there might be some way to figure out how to hop from event to event but it won't really matter because you wouldn't really be going anywhere. So in the end time travel's not only impossible, its a big waste of "time". heh.

Besides we all know time doesn't exist.

'And so it is assumed that the particle took ALL possible paths and speeds to get there, including those that travel backwards/forwards through time and through alternate universes. The question is not whether or not time travel is impossible, but whether or not it is feasible. The only method so far devised for large-scale (and most importantly: not completely random) time travel would be a worm hole device' -Allyourhives

Sorry didn't read your post, would have saved me the trouble of replying. Your exactly right the only way to travel through "time" is to travel to a different space/dimension. But you have to consider since time is only different in a different space and the time you observe won't change unless you are in a different space when you get to the other side of the wormhole it will be the same time as the side you came from because you are now in that space. Dig on that one for a few.

[WHO]Them · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (enf0rcer @ May 17 2003, 12:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([WHO]Them @ May 17 2003, 03:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I don't claim to be an expert on Einstein's special theory of relativity. But I think it's a bunch of crap. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
ok look. Here is the physics of it. You can never reach the speed of light. As you move faster your mass increases. Not your weight or volume it is your mass.. what you are made up of. The closer you go to 100% the speed of light the more mass you gain needing more energy to push you faster. As soon as you reach the speed of light, which isn't possible, you have an infinite amount of mass. You cannot be pushed father because your mass requires more energy than the universe. (there is an equatino to show that as you move faster your mass increases i forget it tho) I'll try and explain how the light thing works by looking at an example of a boxcar (train). A man is standing on a moving train that has a light on the roof. When he sees the light it appears to be just going stright to the floor. (if we say light moves in a linear motion). If there is another man on the side of the train tracks looking at that same light in the box car it would seem as if the light was bending. He begins observing it at one point and as the boxcar moves along the lightbulb moves with it. That means that the light has farther to travel from his eyes because it is in motion. If he could somehow record how long the light took to reach the floor of the car it would be longer than the man on in the car watching it. The man on the side feels more time, although it might be only 0.000000000006 of a second. This was prooven using an two atomic clocks. One was laid out on a table and the other was taken on an plane from point to point. As one flight ended it would board another. The clocks (which measure about .00000000000000000000001 of a second) where brought around in a plan and left in the office for one year. Because of the relation to time and light the clock traveling in the planes measured 2 seconds longer than the one in the office. Now say your moving at 99.99 the speed of light. If you stay in orbit for one year, 20 years will past for a friend on earth. Time is relative to you so you experience less time. anyways this is getting boring to write so ill just let you ponder over this. Some very interesting stuff. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I already know that much of the explanation. I still say it's a bunch of crap. You can say that we've done all sorts of experiments to prove it and whatnot, but my argument is that man is fallible and we only have false proof.

Here's what was explained to me in my physics class..... When an object accelerates toward the speed of light, it's surroundings become flattened onto a plane with a normal in the direction of motion. To the moving object, all time around it slows down. To outside observers, the object gets longer and it's time slows down. So, no matter which reference frame you're in, the OTHER frame slows down.

This means that every point in the universe is experiencing time FASTER than any OTHER point in the universe. This supposedly holds true for ALL points. So you have a fundamental breakdown in reference frame based calculations. So I'm saying that the atomic clock in the airplane must have been caused by something else, fundamental changes in it's environment that caused the error. For example, a slight variation in pressure coupled with travelling through countless orientations of the earth's magnetic field over the course of a year could have possibly changed the decay.

It could even be argued that simply the constant rumbling of the plane gave the atom enough kinetic energy over the course of a year to cause the change.

Bogglesteinsky · May 2003

i found a christmas card that summed things up perfectly

"Dont worry about the past because you cant change it.
Dont worry about the future because it hasn't happened yet.
And dont worry about the present...
(inside, Ho Ho Ho plays from a little speaker)
Because I didn't get you one!!"

like i said. perfectly summed up.

Fam · May 2003

Time is just a human invention. What we call time is just our limited-dimensional explanation of a change in state. Time-travel as we see it is only possible in moving conciousness to a dimension or universe where the current state is that of the the state of our perception of what was the past or the future.

I'm just brain dumping here. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

[WHO]Them · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fam @ May 18 2003, 02:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Time is just a human invention. What we call time is just our limited-dimensional explanation of a change in state. Time-travel as we see it is only possible in moving conciousness to a dimension or universe where the current state is that of the the state of our perception of what was the past or the future.

I'm just brain dumping here. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
that's exactly what I'm trying to say Fam <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Bogglesteinsky · May 2003

whose brain are you dumping?

Fam · May 2003

My own. Out of the collection of brains I currently own, my own brain is one of the more qualified at pointless quasi-scientific rambling.

Er... I mean.... I don't have any other brains. Honest. You can even send UN Brain Inspectors to my house, they won't find any. Theres not even any brains taped under my desk drawers! Er... DAMN.

*Fam runs.

AllUrHiveRblong2us · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fam @ May 18 2003, 05:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Time is just a human invention. What we call time is just our limited-dimensional explanation of a change in state. Time-travel as we see it is only possible in moving conciousness to a dimension or universe where the current state is that of the the state of our perception of what was the past or the future.

I'm just brain dumping here. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
How can time simply be a human invention? You can feel it, you observe it's passage, you can travel through it, and most importantly you can MEASURE it. Saying that time is a human invention it like saying that distance is a human invention.

Dirty_Harry_Potter · May 2003

/steals one of fam's brain, runs grinningly back to my laboratory...AND NOW I ZAHL CONCKUER ZE WORLD!

Bogglesteinsky · May 2003

its too late to be discussing a thing such as this.

time travel is impossible (in the normal use of the phrase) addmitedly we are all travelling though time, but we cannot control this passage

[WHO]Them · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AllUrHiveRBelong2Us @ May 18 2003, 03:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fam @ May 18 2003, 05:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Time is just a human invention. What we call time is just our limited-dimensional explanation of a change in state. Time-travel as we see it is only possible in moving conciousness to a dimension or universe where the current state is that of the the state of our perception of what was the past or the future.

I'm just brain dumping here. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
How can time simply be a human invention? You can feel it, you observe it's passage, you can travel through it, and most importantly you can MEASURE it. Saying that time is a human invention it like saying that distance is a human invention.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I'm not sure whether you're trying to be funny or not. The idea of the past and the future are definetly human in nature.

AllUrHiveRblong2us · May 2003

Of course I'm not being funny!

Think that time is distance. I have a meter stick, I am very small and standing at the 50cm mark. that is the "present" I am moving towards the 1m mark, that is the "future" I am moving away from the 1cm mark, that is the past. Time is not an abstract concept, it exists, it can be manipulated, deal with it.

[WHO]Them · May 2003

time is not a noun. It does not "exist". Time is a concept. It is a concept that is closely associated with the motion of objects. If everything in the universe were to somehow stop moving, time would be an immeasurable thing.

AllUrHiveRblong2us · May 2003

Just because something is not measureable under certain circumstances doesn't mean it does not exist. I do not know my correct speed right now because I have no correct reference point. does that mean I am not moving? It is impossible to know the exact position and speed of a particle, does that mean that said particle does not exist?

Burr · May 2003

THERE IS NO SPOON!!!

Sorry, my brain is being fried from this topic..

Brave_Ulysses · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Burr @ May 18 2003, 09:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>THERE IS NO SPOON!!!</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
<b>Dog Soldiers</b>, yeah? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

[WHO]Them · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AllUrHiveRBelong2Us @ May 18 2003, 03:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Just because something is not measureable under certain circumstances doesn't mean it does not exist. I do not know my correct speed right now because I have no correct reference point. does that mean I am not moving? It is impossible to know the exact position and speed of a particle, does that mean that said particle does not exist?</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
My last point was about how time is an idea, not a thing.

If you're so sure it's a thing, send me a picture of time, or an audio recording of what it sounds like. How much does it weigh ? Does it have any inherent strong/weak forces ? How much time can you fit in a jar ? What color is time ? What happens if you ingest time (and no, not the spice) ? Where does time come from ? Can we mine it out of the earth or grow it in a greenhouse ?

It's an intangible concept, accept that.

Burr · May 2003

you could argue the same thing with life too! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'>

Brave_Ulysses · May 2003

Maus · May 2003

Not sure if people have mentioned this yet or not (I haven't read everything because peoples logivcal fallacies when considering time travel annoy the living poop out of me) but time travel in the sense of removing yourself from one point in time (or timespace if you want to be "proper" about all this) is impossible, ain't going to happen, nuh-huh, never. It goes against so many physical laws it's wanted in thirty seven states.

However, changing the rate of the passage of time can be (and has been) done. Not currently to any useful degree (I think we're talking picoseconds, if that), but it's certainly possible.

[WHO]Them · May 2003

Brave Ulysses...... I'm going to have to hurt you now.

UltimaGecko · May 2003

After shifting through a bunch of stuff, I figured I'd throw in my moderate scientific ideas here.

For Einsteins theory of special relativity, look at that one guys post of objects at the speed of light elongating to infinite distance.

One of the basic tenets of the theory is that there is no preferred frame of reference for describing the laws of mechanics (-skip this if you know what that means- based on the example that 1 man flying in a plane throws a ball up it will follow a straight path and drop directly back down into his hand (if he could throw it exactly 90 degrees) another man on the ground sees the ball go in a parabolic arc, and while they may disagree on certain aspects of the balls motion both will agree that it followed the law of gravity)

Two events that are simutaneous in one reference are generally not simutaneous in a second frame moving with respect ot the first. Simutaneity is not absoulute.

Time Dilation:
Time dilates, according to the equation (with lack of knowing how to make the symbols, this could take a while):

delta t = delta t-prime / squareroot of y
where delta means change in/of
c is the speed of light in a vacuum (2.99792458 x 10^8 meters/second)
t is time
v is the objects velocity
y is (1 - v^2/c^2), its not really y, but i don't have the key to make the right symbol

Thus, according to a stationary observer, a moving clock runs more slowly than an identical stationary clock by the factor of 1/y (or y^-1)

Length Contraction:
The proper length of an object is the length of the object at absolute rest.

L = L-prime/y
L is the length of an object or distance between two objects

Thus you can see that time and space (ie. length) are related.

Newtonian Mechanics and adding speeds:
Some people believe that the speed of light is a barrier in which objects going faster always go faster and objects going slower always go slower, hence no object can go faster or slow down less than the speed of light.

This create a dilemma with Newtonian mechanics, Example:

You're on a truck going 80m/s east, you throw a ball 70m/s east, the overall velocity of the ball is 150m/s east (to a stationary observer).

However if you're on a truck going .8c east and throw a ball .7c east the overall velocity would need to be 1.5c which breaks this rule( "").

However, due to time dilation, length contraction and mass and momentum, the equations of Newtonian mechanics aren't true.

The equation for adding velocities with a sizeable percentage of the speed of light is:

u = v+u-prime / (1 + uv-prime/c^2)
u is the velocity in a particular frame of reference

Thus going .8c and throwing an object .7c results in a velocity of .96c ("").

And through all this scientific stuff, we come back to that one guy in here with him ending up in the year 3200AD. You can travel into the future (or you could consider it everyone else travelling into the past) by going any velocity, but to make it any noticeable degree you would need a sizeable percentage of the speed of light. Look on the internet for the twins paradox if you want to know how that works.

I'm done now.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'>

Brave_Ulysses · May 2003

Official technical term: "Him Head Explode".

<img src='http://www.dodstudios.net/uploads/uploads/zombiebrains.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image'>

dr_d · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dr.d @ May 18 2003, 03:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Time travel in any understandable terms isn't possible because time isn't linear. All events exist in the same space, in simplistic terms the you of 1 second ago and the you of 1 second from now both exist, and in a second you will simply shift consciousness to the next one. Most ideas of time travel follow the rules of some kind of linear time line, the truth is it's more like the head of a pin than a line.

Now I'm sure there might be some way to figure out how to hop from event to event but it won't really matter because you wouldn't really be going anywhere. So in the end time travel's not only impossible, its a big waste of "time". heh.

Besides we all know time doesn't exist.

'And so it is assumed that the particle took ALL possible paths and speeds to get there, including those that travel backwards/forwards through time and through alternate universes. The question is not whether or not time travel is impossible, but whether or not it is feasible. The only method so far devised for large-scale (and most importantly: not completely random) time travel would be a worm hole device' -Allyourhives

Sorry didn't read your post, would have saved me the trouble of replying. Your exactly right the only way to travel through "time" is to travel to a different space/dimension. But you have to consider since time is only different in a different space and the time you observe won't change unless you are in a different space when you get to the other side of the wormhole it will be the same time as the side you came from because you are now in that space. Dig on that one for a few.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Decided to quote myself since it should have ended all arguments <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

The theory of relativity is the theory of how things relate to one another, stop trying to pass it off as a time travel theory people.

Points.
1. Time isn't linear
3. Time doesn't exist
2. Going 6 lightyears in a direction instantanously won't put you 6 years in the future. Sorry.
4. All things time related exist in the same space aka 4th dimension, moving through time wouldn't really be moving since you wouldn't be going anywhere.
6. I know this is true because I am from the future where we failed at time traveling.
5. If time travel was possible, it isn't, but if it was there would have already been historical recordings of time travelers since they wouldn't be bound by time, think about it. If it existed it would have happened by now, since now wouldn't be a factor.

[WHO]Them · May 2003

There is never an arguement-ending statement other than when one party realizes that both sides are argueing for the same side. But that isn't the case here. It's a mix of 3 sects of thinkers.

1. people that don't think.
2. people that accept the first way of thinking they see about every topic, because being an "itellectual" in today's world means selling out your own thoughts.
3. people that give those ways of thinking some thought before blindly accepting them

I hate people that blindly accept things they are told. Because no matter how you slice it, some of it sounds true, but flat out isn't so. Just look at the things people believed in the past. You can research as far back in time as you want. You must accept that at least 10% of things you *know* are false in some way or another.

Brave_Ulysses · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dr.d @ May 19 2003, 12:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> there would have already been historical recordings of time travelers since they wouldn't be bound by time, think about it. If it existed it would have happened by now, since now wouldn't be a factor. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Leonardo DaVinci and his futuristic "plans" of flying machines, television, etc. that would have worked at that time.

Have you seen how Japanese peole make equipment really tiny? And have you seen old old WW2 guns, spy cameras, etc. disguised as pens & cigarette cases, etc? Well I think that in our future we would have made spy equipment less noticeable than we already have. Accordingly we may never know if a person visits us from our future because nothing would give him away.

Or her. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

And as for "now" not factoring into this... Well - how do we know how time works? What if it doesn't go in a straight line? What if it goes in a spiral shape? And we can only hop from one "leg" of this time spiral to another? So a person with a time machine might not have an ability to hop over to our part of this time spiral, hence couldn't visit us. BUT his machine might allow him to, say, visit Jesus Christ's period...

RPG_Jssmfulhud · May 2003

Well, considering that changing the past might have some really bad consequences or unexpected events in future... How can you say that the time travelers would be seen in the "past", our present?

If time travel is possible, we are having some "future guests" here and now. But they are just too careful not to put themselves "in the light"...

Pegenator · May 2003

There is no such thing as time.

Life is a process. It's like written in somewhere and everything happens according to the "script". You cannot make your own decisions or actions, it just happens. There is no excape.

This may sound weird (sounds to me), but I have actually seen things in my dreams that have happened in the FUTURE. They aren't any significant moments, just pictures of my normal life. I did everything the same way in the real life as I did in the dreams. I have tried to act differently, but I remember the dream as I live it, so I cannot remember what I would do in the next 10 seconds or so. I also thought the same things as I was thinking in my dreams. I cannot make my own actions or decisions, it just happens.

That might sound unbelievable, but trust me, it has happened.

1 of my friends has actually had the same experience, so I'm not alone, at least.

Time Travel N Stuff

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