Cheating, Bigger Problem Than We Thought?

2

Comments

  • Scum_of_the_UniverseScum_of_the_Universe Join Date: 2003-02-06 Member: 13174Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--abtm+Apr 16 2003, 07:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (abtm @ Apr 16 2003, 07:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> VALVe is currently working on a way to prevent people from disabling VAC on the client-side. But VAC will only be successful when people stop complaining and turning over cheaters/cheat sites to the VALVe programmers. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Half-life can't be protected.
  • zipperzipper Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5590Members
    In answer to the topic, much bigger. You'll be surprised when a lot of good players don't play as much around 1.1's release or don't play at all for a week or so until the new Jessen arrives. Or maybe they'll keep playing and just make a bunch of excuses (Like not being able to turn off the bite model <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->). That's going to be fun. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

    As for CD, well, it was good. I was fond of it and it's original author, but CD has kind of gone downhill. UA doesn't know what they are doing so I don't have high-hopes for it any longer.

    In anycase, don't worry about VAC, it'll work, and when it gets bypassed they'll find ways to stop it those. By the time their new engine arrives (Which should be revealed at E3 - unless some info/shots are leaked before then - maybe a HL anniversary release. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->) they will have a lot of information in it's VAC. And since it's their own engine, they'll be able to do so much more.

    Can't wait.
  • laggerlagger Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1805Members
    Niteowl.. your opinion seems to be a very biased one, and if your going to prove to me that 3rd party programs dont take up someones resources your mistaken.
  • ZelZel Join Date: 2003-01-27 Member: 12861Members
    edited April 2003
    lagger, you dont know what youre talking about.

    i apologize in advance if this becoems a flame war, but i think i am right here....

    CD does not lag anyone at all. cheating death is a 180 kilobyte program, if you cant spare 0.180 megabytes of ram then you have other problems.

    also, stop thinking that cheating death tries to stop cheating... what it actually does is makes cheats in general 90% useless. you can still run a wallhack but it will give faulty information and you will be better off playing without the wallhack. CD does not try to prevent aimbots, because the aimbot scripters can always change the way the aimbot hooks, instead it makes any aimbot innacurate, effectively making the cheater a worthless shooting machine.

    get your facts straight before yelling at someone who says they are "an operator of a CD required server"

    edit: also in response to this statement "maybe you only have a 900mhz computer.. the 3rd party programs would proabably slow you down which puts a wait on your bullets... or a capped refresh time." i would like to point out that i get 40 to 70 FPS playing from an 800 mhz pentium3 WITH cheating death.
  • fewfew Join Date: 2003-04-02 Member: 15128Members
    talkin' about cheating is boring....me want 1.1 <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • MavericMaveric Join Date: 2002-08-07 Member: 1101Members
    what im wondering:

    Why doesn't Valve just <b>SUE THE PANTS OFF</b> the cheat makers?

    I mean, seriously, people are lazy (which is why they cheat in the first place, or to be "the best") and wont make their own if they dont know how to.

    Valve MUST SUE the makers of OGC for "Ruining a great many mods... and perminatly giving a bad name to Half Life." THATS the way you stop cheaters. Once VAC is updated again, with no newer versions of OGC and the makers having "their fingers cut off with a large ax" basically a peice of paper that stops them from programing, and if they do they get tossed in jail, the older versions of OGC basically "die".

    Everything else like CD would then have a 100% effective, if for some reason OGC spawned some off-shoot programmers that were sloppy.


    That or make OGC's people Pay to use the cheats. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • airyKairyK Join Date: 2002-12-19 Member: 11126Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Maveric+Apr 16 2003, 05:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Maveric @ Apr 16 2003, 05:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> what im wondering:

    Why doesn't Valve just <b>SUE THE PANTS OFF</b> the cheat makers?

    I mean, seriously, people are lazy (which is why they cheat in the first place, or to be "the best") and wont make their own if they dont know how to.

    Valve MUST SUE the makers of OGC for "Ruining a great many mods... and perminatly giving a bad name to Half Life." THATS the way you stop cheaters. Once VAC is updated again, with no newer versions of OGC and the makers having "their fingers cut off with a large ax" basically a peice of paper that stops them from programing, and if they do they get tossed in jail, the older versions of OGC basically "die".

    Everything else like CD would then have a 100% effective, if for some reason OGC spawned some off-shoot programmers that were sloppy.


    That or make OGC's people Pay to use the cheats. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    hmmm i suppose throwing someone in jail because they shared a couple mp3s.....sure cheating and making cheating programs is horrible but thats a little unjust... i dont understand why people need to cheat in the first place. its rediculus and unmoral...
  • Paranoia2MBParanoia2MB Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7832Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Zel+Apr 16 2003, 12:49 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zel @ Apr 16 2003, 12:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> valve anti cheat.

    its an anti cheating thingy made by valve themselves (half life developers). currently NS is incompatible. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I wonder how long this will keep cheaters away for? Hopefully longer than a week hehe.

    What if you get falsed banned when you weren't cheating and you get on this "global chart of cheaters." Any way to get off of it?
  • laggerlagger Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1805Members
    edited April 2003
    <!--QuoteBegin--Maveric+Apr 16 2003, 10:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Maveric @ Apr 16 2003, 10:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> what im wondering:

    Why doesn't Valve just <b>SUE THE PANTS OFF</b> the cheat makers?

    I mean, seriously, people are lazy (which is why they cheat in the first place, or to be "the best") and wont make their own if they dont know how to.

    Valve MUST SUE the makers of OGC for "Ruining a great many mods... and perminatly giving a bad name to Half Life." THATS the way you stop cheaters. Once VAC is updated again, with no newer versions of OGC and the makers having "their fingers cut off with a large ax" basically a peice of paper that stops them from programing, and if they do they get tossed in jail, the older versions of OGC basically "die".

    Everything else like CD would then have a 100% effective, if for some reason OGC spawned some off-shoot programmers that were sloppy.


    That or make OGC's people Pay to use the cheats. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Valve has no grounds to sue cheaters because its just considered a mod... like lerk lift.. or /stuck. If they sue cheaters they would also have to sue anyone who ever moded a game. If you put a different crossheir on.. you can get sued? What if you put a winamp control in your game... valve would have grounds to sue you.

    Also, i point out that i never commented on how CD stopped/makes them useless.... I'm just saying that it takes up resources and nobody can go against that fact, because it is fact.
  • DaddenDadden Join Date: 2003-01-08 Member: 12015Awaiting Authorization
    I shall slay all cheaters with me mighty battleaxe of cheater slaying+5.
  • TeoHTeoH Join Date: 2002-12-30 Member: 11640Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--lagger+Apr 16 2003, 04:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lagger @ Apr 16 2003, 04:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This extra download is somewhat out of the way for the starting nublets so they ushally just go on a regular server. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Bonus
  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--lagger+Apr 17 2003, 01:35 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lagger @ Apr 17 2003, 01:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Valve has no grounds to sue cheaters because its just considered a mod... like lerk lift.. or /stuck. If they sue cheaters they would also have to sue anyone who ever moded a game. If you put a different crossheir on.. you can get sued? What if you put a winamp control in your game... valve would have grounds to sue you. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You don't HAVE to sue someone just because you legitimately CAN.
    So no problem.
  • Lord_Of_The_PingsLord_Of_The_Pings Join Date: 2003-02-27 Member: 14079Members
    why doesn't valve just write them a nice email telling them to tsop writing cheats or they will dissapear misteriously or their computer will statr smoking soon??
  • Major_ChromeMajor_Chrome Join Date: 2002-12-18 Member: 11096Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Before you people go bashing VAC, it DOES work quite well regardless.

    The CS server I help run, I see MANY names of people who have been caught by it when I am talking to someone via the console. It catches many people and it does work.
  • Big_Chief_Brown_BottomBig_Chief_Brown_Bottom Join Date: 2003-01-22 Member: 12584Members
    before bashing CD and VAC keep in mind that they do work to some degree. They will not stop all the hardcore programmers that code their own hacks and not make them public, but they will stop a lot the casual cheaters who download their hacks off sites and have to keep updating them. you never know when a vac server update successfully detects your hack and being on the ban list is not fun. at the moment, both CD and VAC needs to be updated much more often if they want to be more competitive.
  • Scum_of_the_UniverseScum_of_the_Universe Join Date: 2003-02-06 Member: 13174Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Zel+Apr 16 2003, 09:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zel @ Apr 16 2003, 09:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> lagger, you dont know what youre talking about.

    i apologize in advance if this becoems a flame war, but i think i am right here....

    CD does not lag anyone at all. cheating death is a 180 kilobyte program, if you cant spare 0.180 megabytes of ram then you have other problems.

    also, stop thinking that cheating death tries to stop cheating... what it actually does is makes cheats in general 90% useless. you can still run a wallhack but it will give faulty information and you will be better off playing without the wallhack. CD does not try to prevent aimbots, because the aimbot scripters can always change the way the aimbot hooks, instead it makes any aimbot innacurate, effectively making the cheater a worthless shooting machine.

    get your facts straight before yelling at someone who says they are "an operator of a CD required server"

    edit: also in response to this statement "maybe you only have a 900mhz computer.. the 3rd party programs would proabably slow you down which puts a wait on your bullets... or a capped refresh time." i would like to point out that i get 40 to 70 FPS playing from an 800 mhz pentium3 WITH cheating death. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Just to illustrate the point heres a 7kb program that <i>will</i> impact your framerate >:) (or 21k for windoze) - <a href='http://users.ev1.net/~redelm/' target='_blank'>cpuburn</a>. Obviously I'm not responsable for any consequences.
  • Minstrel_KnightMinstrel_Knight The truth and nothing but the truth... Join Date: 2002-11-21 Member: 9562Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin--telemann+Apr 16 2003, 03:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (telemann @ Apr 16 2003, 03:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
    <ul>
    <li>Custom Crosshairs (easier to see where you are aiming over the muzzle flash.)
    </ul>
    <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    OH GNOE NOT TEH DREADED CUSTOM CROSSHAIR HAX
  • Infected_MarineInfected_Marine Join Date: 2002-12-21 Member: 11287Members
    edited April 2003
    I am really confused, I have never seen a cheater in NS (I have in CS), yet accusations of cheats seem pretty common (in-game and out). One time a guy killed me and my clan mate, and my buddy accused the guy if cheating, right before a noob killed him. Another time, this happened 3 un-carapaced skulks blundered into our base:

    <span style='font-family:Courier'><span style='font-size:9pt;line-height:100%'>
    Infected killed [NO C-D]Brigand with LMG
    Infected killed {TOS}Kyle with LMG
    Infected killed [NO C-D]Agent with Pistol
    [NO C-D]Agent: OMG hax!!1 ban infectius </span> </span>

    I see good players (some from this forum) get accused of cheating just cause they play the game right. Couldn't most of this quote on quote "cheating" simply be good players killing people who aren't as good?

    PS: If there are any sites that have NS cheats they should be sacked, NS is going the way of CS too much already.
  • jdub17jdub17 Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3107Members
    LOL if you guys think Vac and CD will stop cheating you must be smoking something hard. It still happens massively in dod and cs.This past months Top CAL-i DoD clans have had their best players exposed of using hacks(ALOT OF THEM). Vac doesnt stop anything cause its never updated. Im just telling you this from experience. VAC wont do Sh1T to the hacking that goes on. Hell look at CS , like average 10 people per week get busten in CAL ey? and its by 1st person spec demos not anti cheat progs
  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--Infected Marine+Apr 17 2003, 06:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Infected Marine @ Apr 17 2003, 06:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ]font=Courier]<span style='font-size:9pt;line-height:100%'>
    Infected killed [NO C-D]Brigand with LMG
    Infected killed {TOS}Kyle with LMG
    Infected killed [NO C-D]Agent with Pistol
    [NO C-D]Agent: OMG hax!!1 ban infectius </span> [/font] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Seems like a "joke" to me, heh.
  • jdub17jdub17 Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3107Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Custom Crosshairs (easier to see where you are aiming over the muzzle flash.)

    Pistol scripts (burst fire functionality)

    Bunny Hopping Scripts (makes it easier to hop)

    Additional binds (medpack drop for the commander and such)

    Fiddling with your display settings until there is no such thing as "the shadows".

    Fiddling with your computer and client settings until you have a framerate of 100fps so that you build faster and jetpack forever.

    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    -Unless you play for leagues, you can use any xhair you want.


    -So called pistol script is just binding ur shooting to mousewheel


    -you really dont need a script to bunny hop.Unless you havent discovered spacebar is for jumping u press forward and keep tapping spacebar and therefore you hophop till you drop.








    btw isint all this "minor" advatanges gonna be fixed in 1.1
  • Infected_MarineInfected_Marine Join Date: 2002-12-21 Member: 11287Members
    edited April 2003
    <!--QuoteBegin--Align+Apr 17 2003, 12:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Align @ Apr 17 2003, 12:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Seems like a "joke" to me, heh. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    No, a guy with out C-D started a vote kick when I had CD. Then again, as people pointed out, it doesn't stop people from cheating. Still, it was funny cause he was sincere.
  • ZelZel Join Date: 2003-01-27 Member: 12861Members
    even if VAC doesnt catch 100% of the cheaters, the fact that it keeps a permenant GLOBAL ban list makes it a fearsome force. if you slip once and use a hack that it recognizes you can be screwed out of a cd key. nothing can stop 100% of cheaters, but with CD and VAC they wont want to or be able to play natural selection with you/us.

    problem solved!
  • NiteowlNiteowl Join Date: 2002-09-04 Member: 1274Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    <!--QuoteBegin--lagger+Apr 16 2003, 01:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lagger @ Apr 16 2003, 01:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Niteowl.. your opinion seems to be a very biased one, and if your going to prove to me that 3rd party programs dont take up someones resources your mistaken. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    of course it's biased, i run a CD req server.

    do you run a server yourself? and did you find the complaints you have materialize?

    your second point is not addressing anything that i said.

    what i said was "no noticeable change in choke/loss on our server". are there resources taken up? sure, i didn't dispute that. but it's not noticeable.
  • XCanXCan Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5904Members, Constellation
    IMO CD does a fine job blocking the cheats. Note block not detect. Nothing can be 100% but CD is the Anti-Cheat program which is closest to it.
  • CatpokerCatpoker Join Date: 2002-06-25 Member: 816Members
    one day back in the days of when i played CS i wanted to see how easy it was to cheat...

    so i download OGC (i forget the version number) installed it and bam, it was so easy

    i would go to a server and say though a bind "i am testing a ogc hack, i will stay 1-2 rounds to see its effectiveness and leave, if you want to ban me.. ok"

    most people said sure,but only for a few rounds

    so i get my gun and turn the auto fire off (it had an easy easy menu, no need to go into the consol)

    it had perfict aim, and the wall hacks were amazing

    but the thing i noticed about the cheating was, IT WAS SO BORING!!!
    after about 10 - 20 minutes, i was crying with tears of bordorm

    i uninstalled it right away thinking "why whould anybody do this for fun"
  • FirewaterFirewater Balance Expert Join Date: 2002-12-12 Member: 10690Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--jdub17+Apr 17 2003, 12:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (jdub17 @ Apr 17 2003, 12:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Custom Crosshairs (easier to see where you are aiming over the muzzle flash.)

    Pistol scripts (burst fire functionality)

    Bunny Hopping Scripts (makes it easier to hop)

    Additional binds (medpack drop for the commander and such)

    Fiddling with your display settings until there is no such thing as "the shadows".

    Fiddling with your computer and client settings until you have a framerate of 100fps so that you build faster and jetpack forever.

    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    -Unless you play for leagues, you can use any xhair you want.


    -So called pistol script is just binding ur shooting to mousewheel


    -you really dont need a script to bunny hop.Unless you havent discovered spacebar is for jumping u press forward and keep tapping spacebar and therefore you hophop till you drop.








    btw isint all this "minor" advatanges gonna be fixed in 1.1 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Actually Othell said custom crosshairs are legal in CAL, but I still use the regular one anyways.
  • FirewaterFirewater Balance Expert Join Date: 2002-12-12 Member: 10690Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--Catpoker+Apr 17 2003, 02:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Catpoker @ Apr 17 2003, 02:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> one day back in the days of when i played CS i wanted to see how easy it was to cheat...

    so i download OGC (i forget the version number) installed it and bam, it was so easy

    i would go to a server and say though a bind "i am testing a ogc hack, i will stay 1-2 rounds to see its effectiveness and leave, if you want to ban me.. ok"

    most people said sure,but only for a few rounds

    so i get my gun and turn the auto fire off (it had an easy easy menu, no need to go into the consol)

    it had perfict aim, and the wall hacks were amazing

    but the thing i noticed about the cheating was, IT WAS SO BORING!!!
    after about 10 - 20 minutes, i was crying with tears of bordorm

    i uninstalled it right away thinking "why whould anybody do this for fun" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    People cheat to ruin other people's games, they get a thrill from the attention, and false sense of "power" they get. I really do have pitty for these individuals, they are rather pathetic and worthless, but htey still exist none the less.
  • Arcane18Arcane18 Join Date: 2003-05-05 Member: 16083Members
    Actually it is illegal to write cheat programs such as OGC for half life because you've modified the way the game works. Ok, well look up the laws on it, I remember reading somewhere that it is actually really illegal to write cheat hacks for games because it violates some kind of software law.
  • ThansalThansal The New Scum Join Date: 2002-08-22 Member: 1215Members, Constellation
    yay for thredomancy

    but, umm no cheating is not illiegal.

    If you were to say hack a server then it would be. But simply sending false data/requesting false data is not illegal
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