Cheating, Bigger Problem Than We Thought?

XCan · April 2003

Everywhere in the forum you would hear how the marines are superior to the aliens because the the marines use ranged weapon. I myself have complained too. So this was a regular day on a server I use to play on, as usual the aliens were beaten to pulps by the marines. When suddenly the admin said that he was installing CD and would like to reboot the server. WTH I thought and left the server to dl CD which I didn't have anyway. After a while the server fired up and some people joined (mostly clan-folks since CD is required by the swedish clans anyway). The aliens won 2 straight rounds and the marines won the next one after. At first I thought, bah noob marines. Days pasted, and I was still amazed that the aliens actually had a chance, especially the uncarapaced skulks were *gasp* killing marines.
So it made me think, is cheating more of a problem than we thought? I know that a WH marine might as well turn on God Mode vs vanilla skulks, and don't mention aimbot....

coil · April 2003

Well, the fact/hope remains that clan matches do *not* include cheating of any variety, and marines destroy aliens regularly in clan matches.

Regardless, 1st-person speccing and VAC support in 1.1 will hopefully pull cheating frequency way, way down.

RyoOhki · April 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>VAC support </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Sorry for being ignorant here but what is VAC support?

Arcadius · April 2003

VAC = "Valve anti-cheat" I think.

Zel · April 2003

valve anti cheat.

its an anti cheating thingy made by valve themselves (half life developers). currently NS is incompatible.

Cereal_KillR · April 2003

its like a giant "vac"uum cleaner that cleans servers of cheater.

Valve Anti Cheat

Arcadius · April 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>its like a giant "vac"uum cleaner that cleans servers of cheater.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Bad pun <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'> jk

Align · April 2003

It also adds detected cheaters to a global ban list, and auto-updates itself(as new ways of detecting cheats are found out) automagically while the servers are running(causing everyone to cry OMG LAG simoltaenously)

hellokitty · April 2003

do people cheat in NS the same way they do in CS? like seeing through walls and such? or do people cheat by having their aim adjusted perfectly onto a target?

i don't cheat so i wouldn't know...

TeoH · April 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cereal_KillR @ Apr 16 2003, 12:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> its like a giant "vac"uum cleaner that cleans servers of cheater.

Valve Anti Cheat  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
It's also at present easily bypassed by 'VAC-disablers' that allow just about any cheat to run undetected on VAC. At the moment CD appears to be doing a better job than VAC.

Cereal_KillR · April 2003

theoreically it works. By practice it's shite <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

Jabba_The_Hunt · April 2003

CD would be fine if it didnt crash my computer.

abtm · April 2003

VALVe is currently working on a way to prevent people from disabling VAC on the client-side. But VAC will only be successful when people stop complaining and turning over cheaters/cheat sites to the VALVe programmers.

Kalmah · April 2003

Yeah, NS has tons of very unfair cheats ranging from wall hacks to aimbots to speed hacks. Aimbots and wallhacks are "sometimes" hard to detect, but if you ever saw the speed hacks, you'd know it instantly. These are the cheats that dump an entire LMG clip in the time it takes to fire 1 pistol bullet (A.K.A. instant death). There's almost anything you can want for NS out there, and since they're probably pretty easy to find, I wouldn't rule out that there are far more cheaters in the games than people realize.

Cowswin · April 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (abtm @ Apr 16 2003, 02:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> VALVe is currently working on a way to prevent people from disabling VAC on the client-side. But VAC will only be successful when people stop complaining and turning over cheaters/cheat sites to the VALVe programmers.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Please tell me how in any reasonable form of intelligence this makes any sense whatsoever? VAC was not, nor will ever be even half as successfull as CD. OGC had a hack to bounce around VAC in under a week if I remember correctly. And what IS it with you and cheats? You're supporting them or something? Of course HL staff should track down cheating programs and sites, how else are they supposed to analyze what they're fighting against? Duh...

airyK · April 2003

what ever happend to punk buster?...i remember always having to use that..now cheating death...ack i hate external program...at least i have my all seeing eye client auto detect c-d servers and launch it before i enter a game.. anyone remember punk buster? i had to use it to play the later betas of counter strike

Johny_Cage · April 2003

punk buster got pwned just before i was born yesterday

Amped1 · April 2003

Yeah I got a website with like 5 different anti-punk buster programs. I wonder if Valve knows about this website? Oh I tried out the hacks (in a LAN) to see what worked in NS and I got this stuff to work-
>Wallhack - Transperent Walls
>Radar - Adds dots according to enemy or ally
>Model Hack - Makes the models very bright making hiding useless
>Autoaim - This thing has several different features. Lock on, where to lock on, priority shooting, etc.
>Anti-Spread - Makes all of your bullets shoot at the center of the screen instea dof spreading out.
>Entity Hack- Makes entities transperant. AKA see through structures.
So If I found all this on one website, think of all the things people have available to them. Oh and if any developer or someone close to Flayra wants the URL I'll be happy to send it over.

Cowswin · April 2003

You should report them, aka, own their non-leet cheats in the face.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'>

hoju2 · April 2003

Who is the OGC?

Amped1 · April 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (hoju2 @ Apr 16 2003, 03:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Who is the OGC?  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
OGC is a hack program which usually conatins aimbots, wallhacks, and other little 'goodies.'

telemann · April 2003

I would also like to add bonus-hitpoints to the list of available cheats. I've seen a cheat that gives skulks the hitpoints and armor of gorges.

In addition to all of the "hardcore" cheats (wallhacks, aiming aids, speed, etc) there are also (as I like to call them) "softcore" cheats. Softcore cheats are grey-area things that have been the subject of "it's Cheating! No it isn't! Yes it is!" debates since the beginning of time (or gaming, whichever came second). These include things like
<ul>
<li>Custom Crosshairs (easier to see where you are aiming over the muzzle flash.)
<li>Pistol scripts (burst fire functionality)
<li>Bunny Hopping Scripts (makes it easier to hop)
<li>Additional binds (medpack drop for the commander and such)
<li>Fiddling with your display settings until there is no such thing as "the shadows".
<li>Fiddling with your computer and client settings until you have a framerate of 100fps so that you build faster and jetpack forever.
</ul>
Now, I'm just mentioning these things because SOME people consider them cheating (Personally I think the first 3 are). Repeat after me: "<b>I will not let this thread disolve into yet another pointless argument over whether these things are cheating."</b>

Cowswin · April 2003

Just as an add on abtm, the fact that you have "The Cheat" from strongbad for your avatar pic doesn't help your credibility any. We don't take kindly to cheaters in these parts. You might wanna just move along before you get an Onos horn where the sun don't shine.

I mean it, we'll be on you like a pack of rabid skulks...with mad cow disease...that had their teeth replaced with large barbed titanium spikes...that have been locked in a room with no marines for a week.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'>

Zel · April 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DeAtH_tO_gOrDoN @ Apr 16 2003, 03:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Yeah I got a website with like 5 different anti-punk buster programs. I wonder if Valve knows about this website? Oh I tried out the hacks (in a LAN) to see what worked in NS and I got this stuff to work-
>Wallhack - Transperent Walls
>Radar - Adds dots according to enemy or ally
>Model Hack - Makes the models very bright making hiding useless
>Autoaim - This thing has several different features. Lock on, where to lock on, priority shooting, etc.
>Anti-Spread - Makes all of your bullets shoot at the center of the screen instea dof spreading out.
>Entity Hack- Makes entities transperant. AKA see through structures.
So If I found all this on one website, think of all the things people have available to them. Oh and if any developer or someone close to Flayra wants the URL I'll be happy to send it over.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
please report that website to the guys who make cheating death over at unitedadmins.com or PM crackerjackmack here in the forums, he works for united admins to test CD against known hacks. they might already know about those, but we always want to make CD better.

Niteowl · April 2003

CD required servers babay, CD required servers. that's what it's aaaall about. less noobs, newbies (a shame, but, hey, get CD when you're serious), llammas, cheaters, ragers, flamers.

we got it on one of the OldF servers, and we STILL get the same (if not more) traffice than before.

XCan · April 2003

So anyone know that guy at Valve, John Smith or whatever his name was who's working with the VAC?

Keyser · April 2003

I truly think we are blowing this whole cheater deal out of proportion. Yes I know there is a hardcore cheater here or there (not someone who uses drawviewmodel exploit) but most of the community are honest players. All this talk of cheaters are really depressing <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

lagger · April 2003

CD, wwcl, and others will never work because they are 3rd party programs which must be enforced by the server and downloaded by each person that would like to join the server. This extra download is somewhat out of the way for the starting nublets so they ushally just go on a regular server. ALSO!! any 3rd party program anti-cheat cannot be run in clan match's which defeats the purpose of anti-cheats in leagues. Finally, 3rd party programs lag servers/clients giving them choke/loss which detracts from overall gameplay.

Cowswin · April 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lagger @ Apr 16 2003, 04:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> CD, wwcl, and others will never work because they are 3rd party programs which must be enforced by the server and downloaded by each person that would like to join the server. This extra download is somewhat out of the way for the starting nublets so they ushally just go on a regular server. ALSO!! any 3rd party program anti-cheat cannot be run in clan match's which defeats the purpose of anti-cheats in leagues. Finally, 3rd party programs lag servers/clients giving them choke/loss which detracts from overall gameplay.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
I don't know what leagues you play in but any league worth a spit will have a representative spectate AND take demos of everyone for later review. If you're not on a decent connection which can take an extra background program running I doubt you'll be very useful in league play. Not many players will reach the top on a 24kbps modem <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Not saying ALL servers should run CD, but if it get rid of cheaters, hell yeah. Most STARTING servers don't run anything extra, including custom maps and anti-cheats just to get people to start playing. Established ones don't need to worry about that much.

So that pretty much takes care of everything you have <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'>

Niteowl · April 2003

being an operator of a CD required server, lemme address your concerns

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
This extra download is somewhat out of the way for the starting nublets so they ushally just go on a regular server.
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
aah, but the regular/vet players will most likely have CD already, and would like to play on a relatively nub/cheater free zone. as i said before, we get the SAME player traffic as before (if not MORE).

the QUALITY of player has NOTICEABLY gone up. just that is reason enough to have CD req.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
ALSO!! any 3rd party program anti-cheat cannot be run in clan match's which defeats the purpose of anti-cheats in leagues.
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

sorry, not talking about leauge clan matches. pub play and clan scrims are good enough? no? that's all that Over Medicated is used for, good enough for the Fogies <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Finally, 3rd party programs lag servers/clients giving them choke/loss which detracts from overall gameplay.
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

this is DEFINITELY NOT true. no noticeable change in choke/loss on our server. plays the same, just better players to play with.

are you speaking about CD from experience? or just postulating?

because from EXPERIENCE, CD req, ROX!

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

lagger · April 2003

Twisted... Cal doesnt allow any spectators or 3rd party programs. If cal is a crappy league... then what isnt? *BOBS NS KNIFE TOURNY!!* They require you to take demo's which is somewhat a long shot to full proof. As for your good connection comments, a good connection does not help choke/loss when dealing with 3rd party programs... maybe you only have a 900mhz computer.. the 3rd party programs would proabably slow you down which puts a wait on your bullets... or a capped refresh time.

Cheating, Bigger Problem Than We Thought?

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