Original vs. Converted models
Infinitum
Anime Encyclopedia Join Date: 2002-08-08 Member: 1111Members, Constellation
Anime Encyclopedia Join Date: 2002-08-08 Member: 1111Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">A discussion</div> First off apology's to Coil, cause he shouldn't have to put up with me and my crap ;p Long days at university and drunks at my bar have put me in an extremely aggitated state of mind as of late, and when I saw the CS conversion thread... well I kinda 'had enough' of it. My initial post was 1/2 in jest, 2/5 in seriousness and 1/10 too see what would happen when I wrote it. Guess noone appreciated the Australian skew on comedy...
Now that I've collected my self a little better perhaps I can put forward a better opinion on the matter.
Onwards!
At regular intervals I come into the model forums to check out if any "elite" custom models have been released, thus far I'm only using the Daemon Elite V1.1 reskin pack yet I crave more customisation. It disappoints me, however, when I browse the forums and I have an extremely hard time trying to find a snippet of information on a brand new original custom model among the mountains of model conversions out there. I can count the number of original models on 1 hand and still have fingers pick my nose with, it has simply gotten that bad.
Now model conversion takes skill, I'll give you that. I prolly couldn't do it if I had a month to spare learning it, that's not to say I don't understand the simplist of concepts about it. If you have most of the work done for you, that basically makes converting an easier task (In comparison to say building from the ground up from cenceptual artwork) You've got all the stuff preliminary stuff done for you, so hey we may as well reference that movie/book/game/etc and use that model. This is where Copyright Infringement comes into play.
Initially when this forum first opened with the release of 1.0 I took it upon myself to provide information to all the potential modeller's about the topic of Intellectual Property (Which can be found
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=19&t=11004&hl=' target='_blank'>here</a>) It made several points on plagarism and the like that I didn't want to see the boards devolve too. I got flamed for it pretty badly for it, yet I made my point got a pat on the back from Comprox and went on my merry little way. Too my... 'disappointment' I found that flagrant Copyright and Trademarked Infringement is running rampant through the streets of the NS Modelling Forum.
Very a long month ago the DoD Modelling forums got closed for a few weeks while everything was cross-checked for Intellectual Property infringement. The cause of this was that several people had converted other peoples work and claimed it as their own, thus a mass-closure and cross-check took place and the forums were never the same. I'm afraid this is what's going to happen eventually with NS. It only takes one model to ruin your fun people, one development team member from a well known company, one person to dob you in and you will all loathe that day.
This is why I seek the original models, not only do they show that a large amount of creative flare was needed in it's undertaking they also appeal to me more because seriously, I suck at Starcraft, I've already seen Aliens, I used to play Warhammer, and I quite enjoyed the Starship Trooper books, and that in my opinion is where they should all remain. There's nothing like a good high quality custom model that makes you feel all giddy inside.
So guys, if you'd want to put your skills to better use I HIGHLY recommend switching from simple conversions and start REALLY impressing me and others by producing some original works. I've known guys in the past whom have gotten interests from major gaming companies to do models based upon the strengths of the custom model resumes they have presented.
Unless of course you can prove me wrong ;p
Now that I've collected my self a little better perhaps I can put forward a better opinion on the matter.
Onwards!
At regular intervals I come into the model forums to check out if any "elite" custom models have been released, thus far I'm only using the Daemon Elite V1.1 reskin pack yet I crave more customisation. It disappoints me, however, when I browse the forums and I have an extremely hard time trying to find a snippet of information on a brand new original custom model among the mountains of model conversions out there. I can count the number of original models on 1 hand and still have fingers pick my nose with, it has simply gotten that bad.
Now model conversion takes skill, I'll give you that. I prolly couldn't do it if I had a month to spare learning it, that's not to say I don't understand the simplist of concepts about it. If you have most of the work done for you, that basically makes converting an easier task (In comparison to say building from the ground up from cenceptual artwork) You've got all the stuff preliminary stuff done for you, so hey we may as well reference that movie/book/game/etc and use that model. This is where Copyright Infringement comes into play.
Initially when this forum first opened with the release of 1.0 I took it upon myself to provide information to all the potential modeller's about the topic of Intellectual Property (Which can be found
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=19&t=11004&hl=' target='_blank'>here</a>) It made several points on plagarism and the like that I didn't want to see the boards devolve too. I got flamed for it pretty badly for it, yet I made my point got a pat on the back from Comprox and went on my merry little way. Too my... 'disappointment' I found that flagrant Copyright and Trademarked Infringement is running rampant through the streets of the NS Modelling Forum.
Very a long month ago the DoD Modelling forums got closed for a few weeks while everything was cross-checked for Intellectual Property infringement. The cause of this was that several people had converted other peoples work and claimed it as their own, thus a mass-closure and cross-check took place and the forums were never the same. I'm afraid this is what's going to happen eventually with NS. It only takes one model to ruin your fun people, one development team member from a well known company, one person to dob you in and you will all loathe that day.
This is why I seek the original models, not only do they show that a large amount of creative flare was needed in it's undertaking they also appeal to me more because seriously, I suck at Starcraft, I've already seen Aliens, I used to play Warhammer, and I quite enjoyed the Starship Trooper books, and that in my opinion is where they should all remain. There's nothing like a good high quality custom model that makes you feel all giddy inside.
So guys, if you'd want to put your skills to better use I HIGHLY recommend switching from simple conversions and start REALLY impressing me and others by producing some original works. I've known guys in the past whom have gotten interests from major gaming companies to do models based upon the strengths of the custom model resumes they have presented.
Unless of course you can prove me wrong ;p
Comments
Well, I don't use custom models at all, not yet... but it seems like the AvP2 conversion age finished <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
If you don't like this forum why do you bother coming here?
The point is that we like this forum, just NOT EVERYTHING on it. If you don't like this thread, why do you answer on it?
It's just when I stuff like the Steyr AUG conversion that I want to bang my head on the table.
CrouchingHamster,HiddenElvis: I could construct a well written discussion on the topic, but I doubt half of the modellers would see it, and even less actually care.
The point is that we like this forum, just NOT EVERYTHING on it. If you don't like this thread, why do you answer on it? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you don't like my post why do reply to it
The point is that we like this forum, just NOT EVERYTHING on it. If you don't like this thread, why do you answer on it? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you don't like my post why do reply to it <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, no, I just LOVE it, it's so original... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Why is it pointless?
I can't seem to be able to get custom models of the same standard as the conversions that are coming out and it disappoints me and a lot of other people. My whole point is just give a few of the exceptional modellers, animators and texture artists a slight slap upside the head and try to coax some original stuff out of them. It's just a voicing of my disapproval of all the conversions that are coming out, and the lack of custom models that are available.
It makes me both sad and angry at this forum when I come in and see the stuff I've been seeing <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
I am SO going to convert the skulk into a bowl of cereal.
Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeetttttt
*readies milk-launcher*
: /
can u model ny better? if u can.. good job! then model something CUSTOM
I'd love to see more original models. The NS community is small, and (no offense intended) a lot of the modelers here - myself definitely included - are fairly new to the craft. As the community ages and expands, our current modelers will gain experience, and new modelers will show up as well.
There's also the fact that modeling for NS is a rather daunting task. Each of the two sides is so cohesive that in some sense it doesn't feel *right* to do a custom model if you're not planning on making an entire pack out of it. I wouldn't be comfortable to stop my chibis with just my skulk released... all 5 aliens, at the very least, need to be replaced, and I'm planning on replacing everything on the alien side - player models, view models, chambers, and the hive. Projectiles and weapon sprites (like the gorge spit and spore cloud) are going to change, and I may even change the HUD sprites.
When you start talking about a one- or both-side full conversion, you're suddenly faced with a rather daunting task. The Starcraft, WH40k, and Aliens packs are moving ahead because they are familiar and popular names that have multiple modelers, skinners, and animators supporting them. My chibipack will be much longer in coming, simply because even if I could find other people interested in helping (like Kylie, perhaps), it wouldn't be *my* chibis if I wasn't doing the artwork. And that's a major block to people interested in custom models.
Another block to custom modeling is simply the idea. A lot of people don't get the kind of creative ideas you need for a really original construction. Other people do, but lack the 2D drawing skills to effectively capture their idea in a reference image before they start (on that note - anyone who wants help drawing up an idea, I'm all for it; I've started to develop a rather large amount of concept artwork experience ^^).
In spite of all those reasons why custom modeling is hard for NS, I'd still love to see original models. I mean, anyone with basic import/export/skeleton assignment skills can convert a model from another engine. Challenge *yourselves*, modelers - original stuff speaks MUCH more to your abilities than conversions do. Who would you rather be - Bungie, for making Halo... or Gearbox, for porting it to PC?
<b>Please read the forum rules. What did I say in the "Gentle Suggestion" thread? Do not flame in kind. Report it to a moderator if you have issue with it. This entire post, in spite of the initial post, had been civil up until this point. Next time you feel like posting something like this, stop and THINK first.
On a different note... if you have a serious issue with the initial post of this thread, please say so - to me, in a PM. I will ask Inf to re-write it. --coil</b>
In most cases, I've pushed the report this post button and gone about my day. But then you said you wouldn't delete this flame-bait thread, which prompted me to take this course instead. You want to know if I have a problem with the intial post? Yeah, I have a problem with every bit of it. I don't want to be insulted by these ungrateful little kids. I don't care if I'm the laughing stock of the whole NS forums, I'll still do whatever the hell I want with my free time working on what I consider a hobby. If he doesn't like it, no love lost by me.
Bots is an amazing skinner, and a credible veteran of all modelling forums. I share the same sentiment as him.
me personally, i don't care. all of you modellers can get as original as you want. just make sure there's a starcraft pack first <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
i love starcraft.... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
2) There are people on here looking for Starcraft/AvP/Warhammer/et al, models. You're not above them, which means you cannot criticize them for wanting it, or working on it.
3) Custom models are being released and will continue to be released. I don't know why you aren't satisfied. Maybe you're just looking to gripe about something. Take it from me, we don't want to hear it, regardless of how your life is going.
Now, this was supposed to be a debate right? What's to debate? The modellers will always work on what they're interested in doing. You can't make anyone work on something they have no motivation for.
Cool your jets, or I will.
What's wrong with my tone again? I'm being courteous. I offered constructive criticism to someone's point of view. I haven't made any references to people's mothers or anything like that.
Just quickly, students are allowed to copy up to a certain percent (10-20%? Can't think...) of a piece of work (I think it only applies to written text) for school work only. So it's not infringement.
*sleeps*
The other thing Inf brings up, which I see as an equally bad if not a worse problem, is theft between community members. My chibiskulk skin has my name on it in one of the blank areas. easy enough to copy over, certainly, but at least it's there. I hope this community can maintain enough integrity to not steal others' hard work.
Then again, it seems to me that those individuals truly invested in the community wouldn't dream of stealing others' work... the heart and soul of this kind of venture is artistic creation. There's not much point to it if it isn't your <i>own</i> creation.