The Roman empire was a democracy until Caesar died, it lasted from approxamately 750 BC to to 43 BC. After Ceasars death, Rome ceased to be a Republic and became an Empire...
Had to add that, sorry <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
just my irrelevent take on the situation of anti-americanism - note, NOT the 'war on terror', unless i specifically say so. incidentally, if you intend to make a politically correct and eye-opening essay, dont use sarcasm. weight the facts against eachother, youre not a reporter for woman's weekly.
another note - this post is in no way educated, informed, or referring in any way to any FACTUAL, or HARD evidence - only misinformed opinions that a self-deluding mind [thats me!] would try and enforce upon others in an attempt at self-glorification
anti americanism -
i believe that [personal opinion, goes against me saying weighing the facts, eh? oh well, i never said this was going to be new. i was referring to the intelligent people] anti americanism isnt justified at all, excepting that 'everybody does it'.
a simple, generalised statement [which may or may not be true, but im going to believe it is]: america dominates the world in as many ways it can, in as offensive and successfuly way it can.
[ - no, dont limit yourself to thinking about offensive in a military way, as many people seem to be - ]
america dominates the world, because if they werent the leaders, who would they be? if you arent the 'winner', then youre the 'loser'. the 'runner-up'. america fought the world, and came out on top. america in my opinion isnt any different from any other country would be if it was the 'winner' of the world. you come out on top, and youve got a lot of people coming out losers. you need to be offensive to stay number one, else you fall
ok i just lost my line of thought, umm okay ill stop rambling on, and try and wrap this up seeing as its only a waste of space anyway
it is in a humans best instincts to put themselves [physically, not just a delusional state of mind "im better than you"] at the top of the food chain. they will do anything and everything to ensure self preservation. now, extend this situation to a whole nation, a nation with a high state of paranoia and enemies [many just because they came out on top].
humans natural instincts for self preservation and self elevation [to the top of the food chain]. this is why communism would never work - not just because it was russia. incidentally, corruption in my opinion is a word that applies only to humans ideas of a 'supreme being' - human instincts are full of corruption, its part of their [our] nature. humans tend to try and apply the 'perfect being' idea to themselves
okay, im not making any sense, even to me
ive been rambling on for far too long, its far too late, i should never have written this, but seeing as i HAVE, i dont want a post to go to waste just because its stupid - i put a fair bit of effort into this...
All this is is a compitition like you see in sports "my team is better than your team" likewise "my nation is better than yours" this is one of the only reasons that there is anti Americanism. (I dont know much about soccer/futball, but here goes) In the world cup the best team is allways booed the most because all the fans of the other teams are jealous. The same applys to this topic. USA has the most money the nukes and the biggest conventional weapons anywhere (except the guy down the street from me <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ) The US offers better things (my oppinion, im open to yours) than other countries.
P.S. If france had a threat who do you think thay would come crawling to. The US. They did in WWII. I hope Al Gore never gets into the Whitehouse again esp as Pres.
1. There are few things that depress me more than when numerics, the only universal and unerring truth that humans have discovered, are misused to support an argument. You may be entirely correct in stating that "25% of the worlds pollution is produced in America." You are not correct in further applying that same statistic to say that we refuse to take any responsibility for it. It is also a distortion of fact to omit the other parameters of that statistic. For example, why not give the percentage of the US contribution to global manufacturing, shipping, and economics that create said pollution? Why not cite how frequently new, more stringent laws and regulations concerning pollution control are passed and enforced in this country? Why not apply the percentage on a per capita basis, and then see how the US stacks up against the rest of the world? Why not investigate a little history and discover just how horrible the impact of European pollution during its boom still affects the world today, or how much less recently the rest of the world (discounting the third world, which still is unable to do anything) has taken action to aggressively reduce pollution versus the US?
I just noticed this point and felt I should respond to it. The current world population is 6 Billion People. The US currently holds 250 Million Individuals. That 4.16666% Of the worlds population. Now, 4 and 1/6'th percent of the worlds population produces 25% of the worlds pollution. That sir, is a crime against humanity. How so?
In the next century or so, sea levels will rise. This is a definite finding. If the US and the world acts now, and I mean right at this very minute, we can minimise how much sea levels will rise. If we DO act now, it will still mean that hundreds of populated pacific islands, not to mention coasts will be flooded and millions of people displaced, but it wont nearly be as bad. However, the worlds largest sole contributer to global pollution has not lifted a finger. The opposite in fact! The US is currently INCREASING their CO2 Emmisions to keep up with power demands! This only damns further millions to drown in the rising tides of next century. Will the US taking these displaced individuals in? House them? Feed them? Clothe them? Educate them? Make them feel welcome?
The point is, you can argue how strong and robust the US economy is all you like. No amount of money will make up for the millions upon millions of displaced individuals knocking on every high and dry countries door in the next one hundred years. It is the one main reason, apart from the fact that the US President is a fool, that I dislike the American Empire. They'd rather drown the planet in a century and preserve their robust economy today rather then grow up now and act like a responsible global citzen.
A message to the US:
You are part of this world. Your actions have repurcussions on the rest of the world. Because of that, you must act more responsibly then any other nation on this pitiful excuse for a planet. Just as the brain cannot function without the heart and lungs, so too America cannot function without the world. Come down from that ivory tower that you sit in, that dirty word, that "we are better then you" word, that word "Super Power" and be a responsible global citzen.
SpoogeThunderbolt missile in your cheeriosJoin Date: 2002-01-25Member: 67Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Gadzuko+Mar 15 2003, 05:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gadzuko @ Mar 15 2003, 05:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The Bush Administration is arrogant, unilateral, and warmongering; the Clinton Administration was not, and the next administration may not be if the citizens of the US realize what they have done. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <a href='http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/meast/9812/20/iraq.01/index.html' target='_blank'>Not a War in Iraq</a>
<a href='http://www.cato.org/dailys/10-11-96.html' target='_blank'>Not Warmongering in Bosnia</a>
<a href='http://www.cato.org/dailys/02-11-99.html' target='_blank'>Not Warmongering in Kosovo</a>
<a href='http://www.cato.org/dailys/01-20-01.html' target='_blank'>President Clinton: The Hippy Peace Lover</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--Cronos+Mar 16 2003, 02:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cronos @ Mar 16 2003, 02:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Now, 4 and 1/6'th percent of the worlds population produces 25% of the worlds pollution. That sir, is a crime against humanity. How so?
In the next century or so, sea levels will rise. This is a definite finding. If the US and the world acts now, and I mean right at this very minute, we can minimise how much sea levels will rise. If we DO act now, it will still mean that hundreds of populated pacific islands, not to mention coasts will be flooded and millions of people displaced, but it wont nearly be as bad. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, so true. While the world climate is going up the turd creek, stupid nonsenical hysterical people cannot see anything for the TERRORIST THREAT looming on the horizon. We should being worrying a lot less about rabid fanatics and a lot more about what terrible disasters that will happen to us all when our world climate is changing dramatically.
AS much as I think Saddam is a despicable person, he does command an awful lot of attention, a lot more than he's worth compared to really pressing issues. Alas these issues stretch far beyond any politicians 4 year rule, so all they can do is "someone ELSE worry about this. I gotta career to tend. And that means focusing on little short sighted (almost myopic) goals that will win me the next election."
Perhaps the worst part of our democratic systems is that our rulers get so short a chance to rule. They can't make reforms that HURT but are for the long term GOOD because they will get cut down by the knee jerk reactions in polls and funding cuts from contributors. I say we extend any politicians "rule" to 8 years. Can we all agree that a constant change of captain on a ship will lead to an erratic navigation? Ship has a momentum, sure, but the course will be erratic and the chance to strike a reef much higher.
<!--QuoteBegin--Gimpy Doodly Doo+Mar 16 2003, 12:29 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gimpy Doodly Doo @ Mar 16 2003, 12:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> All this is is a compitition like you see in sports "my team is better than your team" likewise "my nation is better than yours" this is one of the only reasons that there is anti Americanism. (I dont know much about soccer/futball, but here goes) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Differnce is, Football is FOOTBALL. This is life, hurting and bleeding life. When ever USA farts, or any of the other large power hodlers, a small 3rd world country gets the shaft.
Interesting sidepoint: US greenhouse gas emissions dropped by 1.2% in Bush's first year of office. The first drop, in fact, since '91, when Bush Snr was in.
The reason? The US economy crashed both times, leading to the drop in emissions.
Spooge, there must be a problem with those links... none of them lead to an article about when the Clinton administration unilaterally invaded a foreign country and installed their own government. Oh, wait... they didn't. Never mind.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The same applys to this topic. USA has the most money the nukes and the biggest conventional weapons anywhere (except the guy down the street from me ) The US offers better things (my oppinion, im open to yours) than other countries. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My country (holland) is more free and democratic then the U.S. will ever be (according to official UN reports) And the U.S. is a third world country (technically speaking). the U.S. government however CAN be compared to a CS noob shouting "OMG Ur jealouz cus I'm L33+!!!!11"
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> P.S. If france had a threat who do you think thay would come crawling to. The US. They did in WWII. I hope Al Gore never gets into the Whitehouse again esp as Pres. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The U.S. never entered the war to save Europe, it only acted _after_ the Nazi's conquered all of Europe and started attacking US vessels.
I still think your country is great though, it's just not _the_ greatest country in the world.
<!--QuoteBegin--Bo Selecta+Mar 16 2003, 06:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bo Selecta @ Mar 16 2003, 06:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And the U.S. is a third world country (technically speaking). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I've never heard that before. Could you elaborate?
<!--QuoteBegin--Onuma+Mar 15 2003, 06:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Onuma @ Mar 15 2003, 06:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Does a winning sports team get cocky? Yes they do. That doesn't mean that their ego will one day be broken; but for the time being they have earned their bragging rights. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Uh, actually this was what I was talking about, Onuma. Incidently you match the category described. See, our views differ alot here. I do not think there is such a thing as bragging rights. If someone wins in sports, good for them, but that DOES NOT give them the right to brag about it. Nothing gives anyone the right to brag about himself or his actions. With the words of ken20banks: "Let another praise you, not your own mouth, Someone else, not your own lips" (Something close to this as this was from memory alone) There is no reason why you should cheer for yourself, if you are truly great everyone else will.
Now... yes I know, every winning team gets cocky, that is not an American only problem, but that doesn't change my opinion.
Okay, if you were Prime Minister of Britain at the time, sure, I'd say you get some bragging rights at the diplomatic functions of the time.
Heck, I'd even go so far as to say that President Bush gets *some* bragging rights... I mean I'd say he's entitled to joke to other diplomats about how much foreign aid they're getting from us or whatever.
BUT, I fail to see how the sports team analogy fits with the _average_ American citizen... who can take very little responsibility for America's prosperity and power--virtually none unless you're a big CEO or military commander or Cabinet member or something.
<!--QuoteBegin--Shrike+Mar 16 2003, 11:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Shrike @ Mar 16 2003, 11:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Heck, I'd even go so far as to say that President Bush gets *some* bragging rights... I mean I'd say he's entitled to joke to other diplomats about how much foreign aid they're getting from us or whatever.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sure he could. All would smile and grovel, but secretly they'd come up with all sorts of inner visions of fancy accidents that involves rude Presidents and Pretzels. That would simply be BAD manners, and there are plenty of other country leader's who'd jump at the excuse to try and score points on that stunt. Now I don't hold the highest opinion of George W. Bush, and I think his administration has the diplomatic tact of a Sledge hammer in a chinaware store. but I simply refuses to believe he'd ever do that publicly. No, that wouldn't be good at all. He'd be better off secretly wringing their arms to coerce them into voting for this or that in the UN Council, or allowing a new US air base or something.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->BUT, I fail to see how the sports team analogy fits with the _average_ American citizen... who can take very little responsibility for America's prosperity and power--virtually none unless you're a big CEO or military commander or Cabinet member or something.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well I just think the sports analogy is really bad, come think closer of it. It's Life, not Sports. Two different things.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin--Cronos+Mar 16 2003, 08:05 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cronos @ Mar 16 2003, 08:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I just noticed this point and felt I should respond to it. The current world population is 6 Billion People. The US currently holds 250 Million Individuals. That 4.16666% Of the worlds population. Now, 4 and 1/6'th percent of the worlds population produces 25% of the worlds pollution. That sir, is a crime against humanity. How so?
In the next century or so, sea levels will rise. This is a definite finding. If the US and the world acts now, and I mean right at this very minute, we can minimise how much sea levels will rise. If we DO act now, it will still mean that hundreds of populated pacific islands, not to mention coasts will be flooded and millions of people displaced, but it wont nearly be as bad. However, the worlds largest sole contributer to global pollution has not lifted a finger. The opposite in fact! The US is currently INCREASING their CO2 Emmisions to keep up with power demands! This only damns further millions to drown in the rising tides of next century. Will the US taking these displaced individuals in? House them? Feed them? Clothe them? Educate them? Make them feel welcome?
The point is, you can argue how strong and robust the US economy is all you like. No amount of money will make up for the millions upon millions of displaced individuals knocking on every high and dry countries door in the next one hundred years. It is the one main reason, apart from the fact that the US President is a fool, that I dislike the American Empire. They'd rather drown the planet in a century and preserve their robust economy today rather then grow up now and act like a responsible global citzen.
A message to the US:
You are part of this world. Your actions have repurcussions on the rest of the world. Because of that, you must act more responsibly then any other nation on this pitiful excuse for a planet. Just as the brain cannot function without the heart and lungs, so too America cannot function without the world. Come down from that ivory tower that you sit in, that dirty word, that "we are better then you" word, that word "Super Power" and be a responsible global citzen. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> First of all, please quit treating Americans as a homogenous entity. I find your remarks rascist and insulting. Furthurmore, the reason why we don't have a working Kyoto agreement is because of european politicians playing politics. They intentionally made the agreement unpalatable to the US specifically to have someone to blame. This was the point at which I lost all hope in the UN becoming more than a forum for empty gestures. If you want to discuss this, start a Kyoto thread.
Please, if you have complaints about an action, address it to the people who are responsible for that action. The entire purpose of a democracy is to foster diversity within it. If you have a complaint against the Bush administration, address your complaint to the Bush Administration. If you have a complaint against thoughtless American tourists, address your complaint to thoughtless American tourists. Holding me responsible for the actions of others because we live in the same country is as ludicrous as holding you responsible because we live on the same planet. The connection is not any greater because of the artiificial connection of citizenship.
A side note. Some have expressed sentiment about Americans having never visited other countries. Visiting another country for a European is geographically equivalent to visiting another state for an American. Expeciting international travel of every American is roughly equivalent to expecting every European to have visited another continent.
<!--QuoteBegin--moultano+Mar 17 2003, 12:09 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Mar 17 2003, 12:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> First of all, please quit treating Americans as a homogenous entity. I find your remarks rascist and insulting. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> They are at best blatantly generalizing (and insult is only taken by some one who choses to, remember). There's no racism here! He isn't talking about any race here, but a nation of people.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A side note. Some have expressed sentiment about Americans having never visited other countries. Visiting another country for a European is geographically equivalent to visiting another state for an American. Expeciting international travel of every American is roughly equivalent to expecting every European to have visited another continent.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you can find evidence in my post using those two definitions as a criteria, by all means point them out.
On a personal note, you know nothing about me, my background or my history. If you did, you would know that calling me a racist is utterly insulting me. You were not to know the first time, but I cant help but feel violently insulted.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited March 2003
Any time you consider people to be a homogenous enitity due to some artificial connection, I consider it racism. I make no distinction between racism, classism, or nationalism because there really isn't one. Racism seems to be the most inflammatory term of the three so I use it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> .
The US does not exist as an entity any more than any other nation. It is nothing more than a collection of people. Address the specific people responsible. I agree with you about all of the dangers of global warming. I resent being lumped in as part of the problem because of the place I was born and the actions of people that I have no influence over. That is why I consider it to be racism.
Ah good, I see it was just a misunderstanding on both sides <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'll be more then happy to redirect my comments at the US government rather then at it's people <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The U.S. is screwed up, but so is the rest of the world! This goes out to all of you who think that your country is better. Yes there are some flaws in the constitution but it still kicks! read this and see what your missing out on. (will take hours, maybe days to read) <a href='http://www.law.emory.edu/FEDERAL/usconst.html' target='_blank'>U.S. Constitution</a>
SpoogeThunderbolt missile in your cheeriosJoin Date: 2002-01-25Member: 67Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Gadzuko+Mar 16 2003, 12:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gadzuko @ Mar 16 2003, 12:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Spooge, there must be a problem with those links... none of them lead to an article about when the Clinton administration unilaterally invaded a foreign country and installed their own government. Oh, wait... they didn't. Never mind. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ah, now I understand. It's ok to bomb the hell out a country, fire a few missles at them and send in some troops but as long as you don't bother with their government it's not warmongering. Thanks for clearing that up.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->thanks for the link to us constitution
ill bookmark it
i dont have any current uses for it, but it should provide an interesting read in the future <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hah. Coincidentally, that's how Mr. Bush and his staff feel.
<!--QuoteBegin--moultano+Mar 17 2003, 01:02 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Mar 17 2003, 01:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Any time you consider people to be a homogenous enitity due to some artificial connection, I consider it racism. I make no distinction between racism, classism, or nationalism because there really isn't one. Racism seems to be the most inflammatory term of the three so I use it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> . <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well your use of the word racism is really stupid then. Learn up, get a clue to use the word the way it's meant to be used and most likely IS used by most people. The reason we can speak together fairly well is because not everyone is his own wordsmith. You are just muddying the waters.
Racism, to do with race. Nationalism, to do with the government and artificially defined state you live in.
Overly broad generalisations or stereotyping is where you should be looking if you want to describe what anti-americanism is.
CplDavisI hunt the arctic SnonosJoin Date: 2003-01-09Member: 12097Members
Ok im an asain american. But still an american. Many people from other countries hate the US and its people becasue they feel that we think that we are better then everyone else, bla bla bla. They call us hypocrites etc.
Guess what, myself and many other people in this countrydo not think that we are better then everyone else. (notice all the anti war protesters in america for example)
By calling Americans arrogant spoiled etc, many of (ot all but lots) of you are generalizing the entire population and are in fact doing the same thing that you are accusing the americans of.
Comments
Had to add that, sorry <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
another note - this post is in no way educated, informed, or referring in any way to any FACTUAL, or HARD evidence - only misinformed opinions that a self-deluding mind [thats me!] would try and enforce upon others in an attempt at self-glorification
anti americanism -
i believe that [personal opinion, goes against me saying weighing the facts, eh? oh well, i never said this was going to be new. i was referring to the intelligent people] anti americanism isnt justified at all, excepting that 'everybody does it'.
a simple, generalised statement [which may or may not be true, but im going to believe it is]: america dominates the world in as many ways it can, in as offensive and successfuly way it can.
[ - no, dont limit yourself to thinking about offensive in a military way, as many people seem to be - ]
america dominates the world, because if they werent the leaders, who would they be? if you arent the 'winner', then youre the 'loser'. the 'runner-up'. america fought the world, and came out on top. america in my opinion isnt any different from any other country would be if it was the 'winner' of the world. you come out on top, and youve got a lot of people coming out losers. you need to be offensive to stay number one, else you fall
ok i just lost my line of thought, umm okay ill stop rambling on, and try and wrap this up seeing as its only a waste of space anyway
it is in a humans best instincts to put themselves [physically, not just a delusional state of mind "im better than you"] at the top of the food chain. they will do anything and everything to ensure self preservation. now, extend this situation to a whole nation, a nation with a high state of paranoia and enemies [many just because they came out on top].
humans natural instincts for self preservation and self elevation [to the top of the food chain]. this is why communism would never work - not just because it was russia. incidentally, corruption in my opinion is a word that applies only to humans ideas of a 'supreme being' - human instincts are full of corruption, its part of their [our] nature. humans tend to try and apply the 'perfect being' idea to themselves
okay, im not making any sense, even to me
ive been rambling on for far too long, its far too late, i should never have written this, but seeing as i HAVE, i dont want a post to go to waste just because its stupid - i put a fair bit of effort into this...
anyway, bye <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
P.S. If france had a threat who do you think thay would come crawling to. The US. They did in WWII. I hope Al Gore never gets into the Whitehouse again esp as Pres.
1. There are few things that depress me more than when numerics, the only universal and unerring truth that humans have discovered, are misused to support an argument. You may be entirely correct in stating that "25% of the worlds pollution is produced in America." You are not correct in further applying that same statistic to say that we refuse to take any responsibility for it. It is also a distortion of fact to omit the other parameters of that statistic. For example, why not give the percentage of the US contribution to global manufacturing, shipping, and economics that create said pollution? Why not cite how frequently new, more stringent laws and regulations concerning pollution control are passed and enforced in this country? Why not apply the percentage on a per capita basis, and then see how the US stacks up against the rest of the world? Why not investigate a little history and discover just how horrible the impact of European pollution during its boom still affects the world today, or how much less recently the rest of the world (discounting the third world, which still is unable to do anything) has taken action to aggressively reduce pollution versus the US?
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I just noticed this point and felt I should respond to it. The current world population is 6 Billion People. The US currently holds 250 Million Individuals. That 4.16666% Of the worlds population. Now, 4 and 1/6'th percent of the worlds population produces 25% of the worlds pollution. That sir, is a crime against humanity. How so?
In the next century or so, sea levels will rise. This is a definite finding. If the US and the world acts now, and I mean right at this very minute, we can minimise how much sea levels will rise. If we DO act now, it will still mean that hundreds of populated pacific islands, not to mention coasts will be flooded and millions of people displaced, but it wont nearly be as bad. However, the worlds largest sole contributer to global pollution has not lifted a finger. The opposite in fact! The US is currently INCREASING their CO2 Emmisions to keep up with power demands! This only damns further millions to drown in the rising tides of next century. Will the US taking these displaced individuals in? House them? Feed them? Clothe them? Educate them? Make them feel welcome?
The point is, you can argue how strong and robust the US economy is all you like. No amount of money will make up for the millions upon millions of displaced individuals knocking on every high and dry countries door in the next one hundred years. It is the one main reason, apart from the fact that the US President is a fool, that I dislike the American Empire. They'd rather drown the planet in a century and preserve their robust economy today rather then grow up now and act like a responsible global citzen.
A message to the US:
You are part of this world. Your actions have repurcussions on the rest of the world. Because of that, you must act more responsibly then any other nation on this pitiful excuse for a planet. Just as the brain cannot function without the heart and lungs, so too America cannot function without the world. Come down from that ivory tower that you sit in, that dirty word, that "we are better then you" word, that word "Super Power" and be a responsible global citzen.
<a href='http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/meast/9812/20/iraq.01/index.html' target='_blank'>Not a War in Iraq</a>
<a href='http://www.cato.org/dailys/10-11-96.html' target='_blank'>Not Warmongering in Bosnia</a>
<a href='http://www.cato.org/dailys/02-11-99.html' target='_blank'>Not Warmongering in Kosovo</a>
<a href='http://www.cato.org/dailys/01-20-01.html' target='_blank'>President Clinton: The Hippy Peace Lover</a>
In the next century or so, sea levels will rise. This is a definite finding. If the US and the world acts now, and I mean right at this very minute, we can minimise how much sea levels will rise. If we DO act now, it will still mean that hundreds of populated pacific islands, not to mention coasts will be flooded and millions of people displaced, but it wont nearly be as bad. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, so true. While the world climate is going up the turd creek, stupid nonsenical hysterical people cannot see anything for the TERRORIST THREAT looming on the horizon. We should being worrying a lot less about rabid fanatics and a lot more about what terrible disasters that will happen to us all when our world climate is changing dramatically.
AS much as I think Saddam is a despicable person, he does command an awful lot of attention, a lot more than he's worth compared to really pressing issues. Alas these issues stretch far beyond any politicians 4 year rule, so all they can do is "someone ELSE worry about this. I gotta career to tend. And that means focusing on little short sighted (almost myopic) goals that will win me the next election."
Perhaps the worst part of our democratic systems is that our rulers get so short a chance to rule. They can't make reforms that HURT but are for the long term GOOD because they will get cut down by the knee jerk reactions in polls and funding cuts from contributors. I say we extend any politicians "rule" to 8 years. Can we all agree that a constant change of captain on a ship will lead to an erratic navigation? Ship has a momentum, sure, but the course will be erratic and the chance to strike a reef much higher.
Differnce is, Football is FOOTBALL. This is life, hurting and bleeding life. When ever USA farts, or any of the other large power hodlers, a small 3rd world country gets the shaft.
The reason? The US economy crashed both times, leading to the drop in emissions.
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My country (holland) is more free and democratic then the U.S. will ever be (according to official UN reports)
And the U.S. is a third world country (technically speaking).
the U.S. government however CAN be compared to a CS noob shouting "OMG Ur jealouz cus I'm L33+!!!!11"
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P.S. If france had a threat who do you think thay would come crawling to. The US. They did in WWII. I hope Al Gore never gets into the Whitehouse again esp as Pres.
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The U.S. never entered the war to save Europe, it only acted _after_ the Nazi's conquered all of Europe and started attacking US vessels.
I still think your country is great though, it's just not _the_ greatest country in the world.
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I've never heard that before.
Could you elaborate?
Uh, actually this was what I was talking about, Onuma. Incidently you match the category described.
See, our views differ alot here. I do not think there is such a thing as bragging rights. If someone wins in sports, good for them, but that DOES NOT give them the right to brag about it. Nothing gives anyone the right to brag about himself or his actions.
With the words of ken20banks: "Let another praise you, not your own mouth, Someone else, not your own lips" (Something close to this as this was from memory alone)
There is no reason why you should cheer for yourself, if you are truly great everyone else will.
Now... yes I know, every winning team gets cocky, that is not an American only problem, but that doesn't change my opinion.
Heck, I'd even go so far as to say that President Bush gets *some* bragging rights... I mean I'd say he's entitled to joke to other diplomats about how much foreign aid they're getting from us or whatever.
BUT, I fail to see how the sports team analogy fits with the _average_ American citizen... who can take very little responsibility for America's prosperity and power--virtually none unless you're a big CEO or military commander or Cabinet member or something.
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Sure he could. All would smile and grovel, but secretly they'd come up with all sorts of inner visions of fancy accidents that involves rude Presidents and Pretzels. That would simply be BAD manners, and there are plenty of other country leader's who'd jump at the excuse to try and score points on that stunt. Now I don't hold the highest opinion of George W. Bush, and I think his administration has the diplomatic tact of a Sledge hammer in a chinaware store. but I simply refuses to believe he'd ever do that publicly. No, that wouldn't be good at all. He'd be better off secretly wringing their arms to coerce them into voting for this or that in the UN Council, or allowing a new US air base or something.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->BUT, I fail to see how the sports team analogy fits with the _average_ American citizen... who can take very little responsibility for America's prosperity and power--virtually none unless you're a big CEO or military commander or Cabinet member or something.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well I just think the sports analogy is really bad, come think closer of it. It's Life, not Sports. Two different things.
I just noticed this point and felt I should respond to it. The current world population is 6 Billion People. The US currently holds 250 Million Individuals. That 4.16666% Of the worlds population. Now, 4 and 1/6'th percent of the worlds population produces 25% of the worlds pollution. That sir, is a crime against humanity. How so?
In the next century or so, sea levels will rise. This is a definite finding. If the US and the world acts now, and I mean right at this very minute, we can minimise how much sea levels will rise. If we DO act now, it will still mean that hundreds of populated pacific islands, not to mention coasts will be flooded and millions of people displaced, but it wont nearly be as bad. However, the worlds largest sole contributer to global pollution has not lifted a finger. The opposite in fact! The US is currently INCREASING their CO2 Emmisions to keep up with power demands! This only damns further millions to drown in the rising tides of next century. Will the US taking these displaced individuals in? House them? Feed them? Clothe them? Educate them? Make them feel welcome?
The point is, you can argue how strong and robust the US economy is all you like. No amount of money will make up for the millions upon millions of displaced individuals knocking on every high and dry countries door in the next one hundred years. It is the one main reason, apart from the fact that the US President is a fool, that I dislike the American Empire. They'd rather drown the planet in a century and preserve their robust economy today rather then grow up now and act like a responsible global citzen.
A message to the US:
You are part of this world. Your actions have repurcussions on the rest of the world. Because of that, you must act more responsibly then any other nation on this pitiful excuse for a planet. Just as the brain cannot function without the heart and lungs, so too America cannot function without the world. Come down from that ivory tower that you sit in, that dirty word, that "we are better then you" word, that word "Super Power" and be a responsible global citzen. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
First of all, please quit treating Americans as a homogenous entity. I find your remarks rascist and insulting. Furthurmore, the reason why we don't have a working Kyoto agreement is because of european politicians playing politics. They intentionally made the agreement unpalatable to the US specifically to have someone to blame. This was the point at which I lost all hope in the UN becoming more than a forum for empty gestures. If you want to discuss this, start a Kyoto thread.
Please, if you have complaints about an action, address it to the people who are responsible for that action. The entire purpose of a democracy is to foster diversity within it. If you have a complaint against the Bush administration, address your complaint to the Bush Administration. If you have a complaint against thoughtless American tourists, address your complaint to thoughtless American tourists. Holding me responsible for the actions of others because we live in the same country is as ludicrous as holding you responsible because we live on the same planet. The connection is not any greater because of the artiificial connection of citizenship.
A side note. Some have expressed sentiment about Americans having never visited other countries. Visiting another country for a European is geographically equivalent to visiting another state for an American. Expeciting international travel of every American is roughly equivalent to expecting every European to have visited another continent.
First of all, please quit treating Americans as a homogenous entity. I find your remarks rascist and insulting.
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They are at best blatantly generalizing (and insult is only taken by some one who choses to, remember). There's no racism here! He isn't talking about any race here, but a nation of people.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A side note. Some have expressed sentiment about Americans having never visited other countries. Visiting another country for a European is geographically equivalent to visiting another state for an American. Expeciting international travel of every American is roughly equivalent to expecting every European to have visited another continent.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well said!
My post is addressed to the US as a Nation, as a global citzen.
If you still feel that there are racist remarks in my post by all means point them out to me.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Dictionary: Racism
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
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If you can find evidence in my post using those two definitions as a criteria, by all means point them out.
On a personal note, you know nothing about me, my background or my history. If you did, you would know that calling me a racist is utterly insulting me. You were not to know the first time, but I cant help but feel violently insulted.
I wish you good day.
The US does not exist as an entity any more than any other nation. It is nothing more than a collection of people. Address the specific people responsible. I agree with you about all of the dangers of global warming. I resent being lumped in as part of the problem because of the place I was born and the actions of people that I have no influence over. That is why I consider it to be racism.
We can agree then to mutually pardon?
I'll be more then happy to redirect my comments at the US government rather then at it's people <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
ill bookmark it
i dont have any current uses for it, but it should provide an interesting read in the future
see if i would have done things easier
"the us has the power to murder other countries for any reason whatsoever. we are GOD."
haha nar just kidding <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
It's not "America" it's "The United States OF America".
Don't include two continents worth of people with a generic statement.
Ah, now I understand. It's ok to bomb the hell out a country, fire a few missles at them and send in some troops but as long as you don't bother with their government it's not warmongering. Thanks for clearing that up.
ill bookmark it
i dont have any current uses for it, but it should provide an interesting read in the future
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Hah. Coincidentally, that's how Mr. Bush and his staff feel.
<img src='http://koti.mbnet.fi/revo/Kuvat/bushie.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
Do I need to say more? It's so scary, that it isn't even funny.
<a href='http://www.snopes.com/photos/bushbook.asp' target='_blank'>http://www.snopes.com/photos/bushbook.asp</a>
<a href='http://www.snopes.com/photos/binoculars.asp' target='_blank'>http://www.snopes.com/photos/binoculars.asp</a>
So, yeah, you probably do need to say a <i>little</i> more . . .
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Well your use of the word racism is really stupid then. Learn up, get a clue to use the word the way it's meant to be used and most likely IS used by most people. The reason we can speak together fairly well is because not everyone is his own wordsmith. You are just muddying the waters.
Racism, to do with race.
Nationalism, to do with the government and artificially defined state you live in.
Overly broad generalisations or stereotyping is where you should be looking if you want to describe what anti-americanism is.
Guess what, myself and many other people in this countrydo not think that we are better then everyone else. (notice all the anti war protesters in america for example)
By calling Americans arrogant spoiled etc, many of (ot all but lots) of you are generalizing the entire population and are in fact doing the same thing that you are accusing the americans of.