F4 Retiring From Aliens
Mazkaline
Join Date: 2003-02-11 Member: 13409Members
Join Date: 2003-02-11 Member: 13409Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Doesnt seem to happen in marines</div> "Ok, im saving 400 res to make couple tanks and rush to hive, trust me."
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Oh joy, were going to shoot em up like a bugs soon.
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Die die die you pigs!
And so we march into nearest hive like tank-battallion and succeed in destroying it after much of welding and even more ammo and finally just clearing off that fades blood from armours and getting ready to destroy the other hive too.
When suddenly
[Team 1 won the game]
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"What the *****?"
Every marine asks that from himself and some ask it from others while I check the scoreboard and see that half of the alien team has F4'ed when they cant take the bitter loose.
So I scream in frustration and exit game, while I got nice victory but not so nice gameplay because aliens simply retired.
On the next day, played as marine for six times and lost four of them and "won" two. All marines simply fought back till the bitter end (and we got one onos down too <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ) and aliens ate us all
While in the victorius games we got one of their hive and noticed again that we didnt get any satisfaction of victory but retirement of opponents.
This bugs me and been talking with couple friends and we all noticed that almost no marine retires until fade is ripping his arm off from command console. While aliens only want victory rather than noisy final fight against heavily armored troops.
Im not accusing all aliens, but im confused about the fact that both marines and aliens are the same players and still marine team doesnt retire while half of the aliens do retire when the Rare Victory of Marines raises its head.
And here we should think some way to prevent this kind of (lame) quitting.
Theres been success in preventing the aliens from eating all IP's when first alien-rush is succesfull and all marines killed. So we must do the same thing for these cowardly F4'rs who dont want to give any more feel of victory to marines than they must to.
And dont even think of suggesting about preventing use of F4, thats not gonna work but we must make the actual players better in somehow and add some more satisfaction in killing HA guys (as much as there is killing fade with pistol <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> )
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Oh joy, were going to shoot em up like a bugs soon.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
Die die die you pigs!
And so we march into nearest hive like tank-battallion and succeed in destroying it after much of welding and even more ammo and finally just clearing off that fades blood from armours and getting ready to destroy the other hive too.
When suddenly
[Team 1 won the game]
<!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
"What the *****?"
Every marine asks that from himself and some ask it from others while I check the scoreboard and see that half of the alien team has F4'ed when they cant take the bitter loose.
So I scream in frustration and exit game, while I got nice victory but not so nice gameplay because aliens simply retired.
On the next day, played as marine for six times and lost four of them and "won" two. All marines simply fought back till the bitter end (and we got one onos down too <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ) and aliens ate us all
While in the victorius games we got one of their hive and noticed again that we didnt get any satisfaction of victory but retirement of opponents.
This bugs me and been talking with couple friends and we all noticed that almost no marine retires until fade is ripping his arm off from command console. While aliens only want victory rather than noisy final fight against heavily armored troops.
Im not accusing all aliens, but im confused about the fact that both marines and aliens are the same players and still marine team doesnt retire while half of the aliens do retire when the Rare Victory of Marines raises its head.
And here we should think some way to prevent this kind of (lame) quitting.
Theres been success in preventing the aliens from eating all IP's when first alien-rush is succesfull and all marines killed. So we must do the same thing for these cowardly F4'rs who dont want to give any more feel of victory to marines than they must to.
And dont even think of suggesting about preventing use of F4, thats not gonna work but we must make the actual players better in somehow and add some more satisfaction in killing HA guys (as much as there is killing fade with pistol <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> )
Comments
but for aleins its a totally different matter. if were on our last hive and we got like 6 HA's comin to our last hive most ppl just want it to end. there is no rush to see how long you can last for. i dont know why this is maybe its because we know we have no chance with skulks. when all the marines have to do is get a jp'er in a vent to start a new base?.
well mabe some other ppl can think of some reasons <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
they could have walked into the place and shot it with very little problem, it just meant that some of our team f4ed and the others just attacked and died a lot. fairly sure we took one or two down, but it wasnt fun in the slightest.
i think theres several other topics in this somewhere down the list.
generally i think the aliens are more agresive when attacking marines than other way around, though as you say, it is sort of fun losing a marines (mostly)
As a marine, you dodge bitefire, spores, Acid rockets and maybe take a few down. As an alien, you get killed upon spawning, and have to sit there while the marines take their sweet time to take down the hive.
With aliens, there is no sole hero to cheer for, no reprieve, and it is certainly no fun to sit there and do nothing. Most people prefer to go straight to the ready room and muck around in there, if enough people prefer this then watching the defenseless hive get shot to pieces, then it results in a marine victory.
It really depends, with aliens under a 2 hive lockdown, it's more like a "We're dead so kill us already", if the marines are facing three hives however, it's more like "Those Onos are gonna come rolling in those doors soon".
The "Lame" kind of F4 is when aliens do it when there is a chance. If there is no chance, I dont really blame them. Alien losses particularly suck. Try it sometime for the sake of learning, there is simply no way to extricate yourself from that situation. I believe the word is "Living Death", I've had far too many games like these where the commander sees fit to not only turret spam, but tech up all the way and equip the entire marine team with HA/HMG's with at least 3 spares per marine, rather then just finishing it.
/rant off
/whips out .357
So anyone else wanna F4??? <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
f4ing fine by me as cronos said it fun 4 marine playing survivor seeing how long ull last when every1 is dead but boring 4 aliens <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
One-hive aliens basically have NO chance to fight against HA/HMG, especially when level 3 weapons and armour have also been researched. Throw in a few welders and your “tank batallion” are invincible against skulks and lerks. There is no fun for the aliens under these circumstances, hence the rush to F4.
On the flip side, when the marines are overrun by fades and even onos, they often have a few weapon and armour upgrades that make it a fun challenge to try to take out a few aliens, even though the game is lost.
Marines in the end-game, assuming their commander has researched a few toys, do have a chance to kill upgraded aliens, but end-game aliens cannot do squat against upgraded marines. Until something is done to change this, the F4 evacuation will continue.
Personally, if I am playing on a losing alien side I will try not to F4 because I know how unsatisfying it is for the marines (especially as marines don’t often win on pub servers). However, some commanders lock down most of the map and then sit in their base until they have enough resources to upgrade all their squad, including themselves, before venturing out to end the game. That just becomes boring for the aliens, and again makes it more likely they will F4 in order to start a new game.
being able to come to to the rr actualy just makes alot of games end in a aura of disapoitment , you should always fight to the end of a match, even if the humans have HMG/MA u can still kill them as skulks,
Please post the name(s) of servers that kick/ban people for pressing F4, so I can avoid them like the festering venerial disease that they are. For heaven's sake, people, don't be so foolish.
And forget the "it's our server - we'll do what we like" flames. Yes it's your server, but you will be very lonely if nobody comes to play because you have firmly shoved your head up your posterior.
Have a nice day <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
being able to come to to the rr actualy just makes alot of games end in a aura of disapoitment , you should always fight to the end of a match, even if the humans have HMG/MA u can still kill them as skulks, <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What if you did remove F4? You would still be able to type retry. You can't stop people from wanting to quit what the belive is a boring game. You can try to make the end game more fun for all.
There was a thread some where with suggestions for how to do just that. I personaly don't care enough to find it though.
Guys, no one likes having their victory taken away by sore losers, but F4ing = kick/ban? Riiight. Name your server then, so I can avoid it.
At least once a week I get on a fun server with good players, where a marine comm. techs up, farms up, mines up, and drops every piece of equipment he can while the aliens are spawn killed with 1 hive. Fun.
Some simple code could be implemented though... like...
1) a game has gone on for X minutes, or X tech has been reached (for either side)
2) the last CC has been destroyed/only 1 hive is left and the other 2 were destoyed
3) the number of aliens F4ing = enough to end the match, then
Give the marines a 1 minute countdown (or 30 seconds?) to end the game, or the game ends like it does now with a mass F4.
Sifo
Please post the name(s) of servers that kick/ban people for pressing F4, so I can avoid them like the festering venerial disease that they are. For heaven's sake, people, don't be so foolish.
And forget the "it's our server - we'll do what we like" flames. Yes it's your server, but you will be very lonely if nobody comes to play because you have firmly shoved your head up your posterior.
Have a nice day <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed.
Then we had a new com step up...who proceeded to drop a hmg for himself, recycle the infantry portal, and go to camp in a vent with only one exit.
I jump in the com chair, res Heavy armor, then, when heavy armor is almost completed, I notice none of my buddies are respawning and we have no infantry portal. I place one, jump out and build it, while dodging fade acid rockets, then a skulk eats me...And they take down the infantry portal.
soon afterwards, the single marine in the vent with the hmg is killed by a single skulk.
That com denied us the right to go down fighting, if we would even lose, but more than likely, with 200+ res's, We could have ANNIHILATED the aliens, even if they had onos.
1) 3 hives dead, gorge has decided to go hide in a vent (no where near a hive) with DCs all around him. Now is that 'fun'? **** NO! F4 time!
same deal with marines going and hiding (trust me they CAN I have had to deal with stupid people like this)
And all of these f4 hatting people seem to not be able to READ. Look at some of these posts they are very well done.
Look, here is my deal. So long as I have SOMETHING to do (besides throwing my silly little skulk body against a turret farm) I will keep fighting till the last FN DROP OF GREEN(or red) BLOOD IS LEFT IN ME!!!!!!
I always yell at the tools who say 'oh, we screwed up time to f4'. So long as the opposing team is trying to win I will defend the IP/Hive. However if the other team is taking like 5 mins o simply TRY TO ATTACK! I will warn them that they are being lame, they could simply end the game, and if they don't they are going to run into F4.
As most people pointed out, F4ing is generaly a problem on the Alien side b/c it is very rare that there is not a constant stream of aliens charging the marine base at end game(often with some skulks trying to xeno, and they are kinda like skeet shooting when the launcher is aimed at your head ;D). However it is often the case that marines will whup it up and have GOOD D set up in 2 hives, and already have HA/HMP/JP. And they will then go around with their ***** in their hands not doing anything and just leaving the skulks to throw their little bodies against the marine equivilent of a WoL.
So just keep in mind, that not all F4s are b/c the loosing team is lame, many times it is b/c the winning team is lame.
Oh and as for your situation, if you JUST took the hive, I say they were lame for F4ing.
So I scream in frustration and exit game, while I got nice victory but not so nice gameplay because aliens simply retired. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Give me a break. Where's the "gameplay" in getting massacred by HAs as a skulk and waiting 2 minutes to spawn. (Answer: there isn't). It'a self serving butchery. All you REALLY want is to march in gleefull on full auto cackling at the scores of kills, at the expense of an annoyed, and very bored, skulk team.
I understand why it would be fun, but if you've won the game YOU'VE WON THE GAME. The final run is just the denoument. Maybe you think of it as a "reward" for successfully defending 2 hives, but no one deserves to be forced to play just so you can slaughter them for your own kicks.
F4 is necessary. I avoid servers that take it out or kick/ban.
/rant off
/whips out .357
So anyone else wanna F4??? <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It isn't a tactic. It's how you end an unbearable phase of the game. It just isn't FUN to try and skulk your way out of a 2-hive lockdown, and the marines take like FOREVER to get to the point where they actually feel confident enough to directly assault your remaining hive. It's a problem with the game, rather than people. Endless abuse and pain is not for many of us to enjoy. Aliens can overrun marines during the end game and give a somewhat enjoyable last stand gameplay for the marines. Fun when you all had a good game and they know they are about to eat the muffin, but staying for being good sports.
Not so fun when aliens have struggled to gain their 2nd hive for the entire game, and marines can seemingly not be arsed to go out and take the last hive down.
To alter this, make it more fun for aliens to play even in the end phase of the game even if they have but 1 hive. This is a dev thing, they must try to make some aspects of the game work better. Come 1.1 I think we will at least see different end games. I also believe that it royally sucks to be in this doomed situation and having to wait EONS for the marines to pull their fingers out of their bottoms and get to work instead of turtling. Sometimes I blatantly /quit if I sense the game is entering this immense drag. F4'ing is semi-nubbish but an ok way to get idiotic "hiding myself for 10 minute" last players to lose the game. If everyone f4's he'll die.
That, my friend, is the "lamest" game ever. F4'ing is like conceding in starcraft; it may end the game <b>you</b> won early, but it gives you a chance to perhaps play the same map again, or allows you to at least play another map sooner, rather than 20 minutes later. That's good for those of us who try to maintain lives outside of NS.
At least this was the view of those who thought ending a game automatically when the teams were incredibly stacked (player-wise).. I still agree with their decision. On a lighter note, I don't see many posts about "t3h lame F4'ing" as often as I used to, maybe they're growing up?
Well I want to believe it. I tend to stay for as long as I can endure, and a bit more. To show good sportsmanship. But in the end, I'm playing NS to have fun, and the mindnumbingly slow endgame that some commanders play when they get 2 hive lock down is crossing the line. Luckily not so many games where I play end like that. The marine comm's can usually figure out to make some go attacking our last hive in reasonable time.
The stalemate usually happens around the time when Marines have spent so much res turtling up that they hardly have any upgrades or can afford a HA squad attack. Even JP/HMG is too late, since aliens most likely have been rolling in res for ages and have put up chambers all over the map. A JP HMG would die in half a minute.
Why is it the marines never F4? ...because they are overpowered, and in the case where they ARE going to lose, the loss is QUICK. The aliens rush the marine base and it's over. Period.
The marines on the other hand take their sweet time. They lock down two hives and then strut around killing the aliens that try and take one back. They make no move on finishing the game, and often they can spend 30-60 minutes before they finish the game.
I'm sorry, but I have NO INTENTION of being target practice for an hour for some person to get his kicks. If you want the win, then TAKE IT. Rush our hive and finish it. Don't spend a hour collecting res so you can outfit every marine with HA/HMG.
When aliens F4 it's because they know they have lost. The game is pointless. In that case it takes GUTS to admit when you have lost and to resign the game. Any rambo can 'fight to the last man', but if I know I'm beaten I'm not ashamed to admit it. We can F4, finish the game, and move on.
If you play marine and don't like F4, then get off your behind and go attack the alien's hive instead of whining because the aliens hit F4.
When I play marine I often leave the game because the comm and/or marine team is dragging their heels. I usually tell people that we should 'finish it already' but I hear "no wait I need HA/HMG" and then the comm has no res because he just dropped an extra ten turrets at each hive, and the because the aliens were chomping the res nodes he went and TF/Turreted up all the res nodes.
Gimme a bloody break already!
If you want the aliens to give you a 'good game' then you have to give the aliens a good game IN RETURN. Locking down the map and then waiting around while the aliens helplessly throw themselves at you and your base is NOT a good game.
It's time people realised that.
Regards,
Savant
If you want to truly win the game , behave like a winner. Come to finish your ennemy. Do gorges fill the map with WoL until thoses start shooting at the main base ? When marines have (doubled TF) turretfarms on both hives + phase gates and sieges , there is no chance on earth the aliens can take a hive back. The best thing to do is to regroup somewhere and march on the ennemy. If skulks evade from spawnkilling attempts they have a hive to regenerate them , and can possibly bite a nearby marine ; if they're slowly sieged , exiting their base means certain death. They have no chance of fighting back (killing HA marines with parasites ?...) so it's anything but fair play. F4 is very justified here.
F4ing is nothing more than giving up, It is admitting that we lost and the enemy team defeated us, nothing more. It isn't taking away a win, if the other team F4's than you won, period. I know that it might be kind of dissapointing that you didn't totally obliterate the enemy team, and generally people won't F4 if they know their gonna lose soon, but some commanders just sit back and wait for enough resources to equip everyone with HA/HMG or GL, when in reality if you just attacked the hive it would be a quick game.
When I'm commander and the marine team is winning, and I see the enemy team starts to F4, I really don't mind that much, we've because we probably secured two hives and we are waiting for the tech. When they F4, I think of it as just realizing the inevitable, since the status of the game has no chance of changing, and they just decrease the time it takes for the game to end and start a new one. I don't support F4 when the marine team kills the gorge, or the aliens take out an outpost early in the game, because it could still go either way. Flame me if you want, but that is just my opinion
Also, the fight for the first two hives tends to be good, as the marines know they need to get those first hives urgently, so they are prepared to take risks. For the last hive, they tend to be ultra-cautious (and ultra-slow) because they can afford it easily.
Some people may consider it lame to quit a game before you lose completely. Others may consider it lame not to end a game when the outcome is obvious to all involved. If you really need to shoot defenseless things who can't pose a real threat to you while you're blasting them one by one, perhaps you ought to try Deer Hunter, seems to be a quite successful game. Personally, I prefer a fight over a long-winded one-sided massacre.
At the expense of other players? I'm sorry, I forgot that NS was a <b>single</b> player game, my bad.
Oh wait, it isnt. Your bad.
Sifo
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=23930&hl=' target='_blank'>F4 Discussion</a>
And here's the corresponding thread in the suggestions forum that discussed ideas to solve this problem:
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=24083&hl=' target='_blank'>Suggestion thread</a>
-Fang-[CE]