Games Vs Reality
Vyvn
Join Date: 2002-08-24 Member: 1226Members
Join Date: 2002-08-24 Member: 1226Members
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">Too real? Or harmless enetrtainment?</div> This is a gaming forum, so I'm surprised that the issue of violence in computer games hasn't been brought up. Unless it has, and I'm just unobservant.
In any case, I wanted to talk about not the standard "do games promote violence," but rather, are violent computer games becoming too close to reality to be really harmless anymore? How can you feel okay with yourself while shooting other people and watching the virtual blood fly, then getting killed yourself and respawning, when hundreds of people are shot each day in the very posititons you are using for your enjoyment?
My position, as probably most every gamers' is, that games are just that--games--and any attempt to blame the world's problems on them is incorrect, evasive, and downright irresponsible. It's the excuse that parents who don't pay any attention to their kids use when they realize that they don't recognize their son or daughter anymore. it's always "blame the music, blame TV, blame the games," instead of recognizing their own faults. And as for games that bear a resemblance to reality--they are still played for nothing but fun and a way to pass the time, and if they happen to be realistic, all the better--it adds more atmosphere to the game. They don't really promote the values that they represent.
But a quote from the "Counterstrike Causes Potty-mouth?" thread got me thinking that maybe for a lot of people this isn't the case. Here it is:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You wanna see a lot of jew references go play DoD. All the Nazi-wannabes think they are cool using it as some form of put down or something. I used to use the name JewUncle in games(in reference to my uncle who was a jew), but that all stopped after I started playing DoD. I got hassled so much that I quit using it. 90% of the time it was from Nazi-wannabes but the other 10% of the time it was from ppl thinking I was dissing on jews. I cant say I dont understand that 10% tho as they heard the dissing on jews just as much as I did and they just assumed that I was being a Nazi-wannabe. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The idea of a Nazi wannabe playing DoD so that they can kill Allies, somehow supporting their Nazi cause, is really pretty disgusting. I don't know if this is exactly the case in this example, but if you place a player in a real-life situation like this can't you assume some people will exploit it in such a way that they somehow they feel like they are fighting for a cause as bad as this? Now obviously this is an extreme situation. What about less widely condemned ideals? Now, obviously most people playing NS don't really have it in for those little Gorges (I know who you are, Gorge-haters <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ), but what about people who play the Desert Combat mod for BF1942 so that they can get satisfaction out of killing Arab soldiers? If you have your own opinions that's fine, this isn't a war thread, but is it really okay for someone to take out their feelings that way? GTA:VC got a lot of bad press for "promoting violence," but that game is unrealistic enough that it's just for fun. But what if, out of all the current WWII games, there was one where you had to storm a concentration camp and avoid civilian causualties. What if you were placed as a German, defending it? For all I know, there already is, or there will be next month.
I've been rambling a bit, and probably most people here, as I already said that I did, believe that games are fine as they are in terms of blurring the line between virtual reality and the real world. It's just for fun, and no real harm is meant. But as technology get better and better, things might change. I just wanted to get the ball rolling.
In any case, I wanted to talk about not the standard "do games promote violence," but rather, are violent computer games becoming too close to reality to be really harmless anymore? How can you feel okay with yourself while shooting other people and watching the virtual blood fly, then getting killed yourself and respawning, when hundreds of people are shot each day in the very posititons you are using for your enjoyment?
My position, as probably most every gamers' is, that games are just that--games--and any attempt to blame the world's problems on them is incorrect, evasive, and downright irresponsible. It's the excuse that parents who don't pay any attention to their kids use when they realize that they don't recognize their son or daughter anymore. it's always "blame the music, blame TV, blame the games," instead of recognizing their own faults. And as for games that bear a resemblance to reality--they are still played for nothing but fun and a way to pass the time, and if they happen to be realistic, all the better--it adds more atmosphere to the game. They don't really promote the values that they represent.
But a quote from the "Counterstrike Causes Potty-mouth?" thread got me thinking that maybe for a lot of people this isn't the case. Here it is:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You wanna see a lot of jew references go play DoD. All the Nazi-wannabes think they are cool using it as some form of put down or something. I used to use the name JewUncle in games(in reference to my uncle who was a jew), but that all stopped after I started playing DoD. I got hassled so much that I quit using it. 90% of the time it was from Nazi-wannabes but the other 10% of the time it was from ppl thinking I was dissing on jews. I cant say I dont understand that 10% tho as they heard the dissing on jews just as much as I did and they just assumed that I was being a Nazi-wannabe. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The idea of a Nazi wannabe playing DoD so that they can kill Allies, somehow supporting their Nazi cause, is really pretty disgusting. I don't know if this is exactly the case in this example, but if you place a player in a real-life situation like this can't you assume some people will exploit it in such a way that they somehow they feel like they are fighting for a cause as bad as this? Now obviously this is an extreme situation. What about less widely condemned ideals? Now, obviously most people playing NS don't really have it in for those little Gorges (I know who you are, Gorge-haters <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ), but what about people who play the Desert Combat mod for BF1942 so that they can get satisfaction out of killing Arab soldiers? If you have your own opinions that's fine, this isn't a war thread, but is it really okay for someone to take out their feelings that way? GTA:VC got a lot of bad press for "promoting violence," but that game is unrealistic enough that it's just for fun. But what if, out of all the current WWII games, there was one where you had to storm a concentration camp and avoid civilian causualties. What if you were placed as a German, defending it? For all I know, there already is, or there will be next month.
I've been rambling a bit, and probably most people here, as I already said that I did, believe that games are fine as they are in terms of blurring the line between virtual reality and the real world. It's just for fun, and no real harm is meant. But as technology get better and better, things might change. I just wanted to get the ball rolling.
Comments
I made a post about violence in computer games, not realism.
While I'll admit that I am highly susceptible to suggestive thoughts, I am also aware that I am highly susceptible to suggestive thoughts. I keep track of my thoughts very closely because I feel that evaluating and assessing my thoughts and the thoughts of others makes me a more informed person. I don't believe that games directly cause violence, but I do believe that they can be suggestive depending on the person.
I play games to enjoy myself in another reality. Nothing more.
And I misspelled "entertainment" in the title. I rule.
"What if we had space travel that individuals could own?"
"What if we meet extra terrestrial species, what would we do?"
"What if we had the opportunity to colonize another planet, how would we do it?"
"What if I was a axis soldier in 1942, would I want to win and call the allied forces "jew lovers"?
"What if I was an allied soldier in 1942, would I want to win and call axis forces krauts, slants, and goose steppers?"
"What if I founded a tribe called Americans and got to decide their actions throughout history?"
"What if I was in charge of the Yankees going into the World Series?"
"What if I was the hero of a tragedy which had magic and might involved?"
And that is just to name a few.
After I consider that, it really comes as no surprise that DoD might have people acting out their fantasy of what would it be like if I was trying to rule the world by force or people acting out their fantasy of freeing the world from occupying forces. That people people have dark and disturbing fantasies comes at little shock to any of us, since we've all had one at one time or another.
Does this make games a force of destruction? I have to doubt that, since I'd rather someone act out their dark fantasies in a fictional setting (no matter how hard you try, its still going to be fictional) where there are no affects on me and those I love, then in real life in various mobs, national political movements, and acts of degradation. These terrible things are not new to society, since before serial killers, muggers, gangsters, and terrorists in media, society had ghosts and goblins in urban legends that were probably unsolved mysteries of horrifying acts by the kinds of people already mentioned.
But that really isn't the question, is it? Its more like, do playing out your fantasies in games help you act them out in real life, right? Are games a vehicle for preparing the mind and soul for the act of commiting vile acts of violence and degradation against others, and so on.
I would have to say that comes down to a personal decision, that all the brain washing in the world can't change the gut wrenching feeling that you are about to do something evil and cruel to someone else in real life. I'm sure the more you ignore that feeling, the easier it gets to be cold and calculated about evil and cruel acts, justifying your actions to yourself every time you do it again, and the more you do it, the easier it gets to ignore that feeling. Does doing something you know is wrong in a fantasy over and over again do the same thing? It hasn't for me, that's all I know.
I see <b>NOTHING</b> wrong with video game violence...I've been playing video games since the old Atari (what was it...2100 or something, very old) when I was four. Battletank, NARC, Battletoads, Double Dragon I & II, Streets of Rage, Golgo 13, Street Fighter 2...they were all games I played the hell out of when i was still under 10 years old.
The point is, violence hasn't created a detrimental effect on my mind or my actions - the same goes for so many other gamers around the world who grew up just like I did. I see a lot more violence from the post-war "Baby Boomer" era and the decades after that (1945-1965 mainly); parents bludgeoning other parents to death at a high school hockey game, bar fights turning into full-out brawls, the DC Sniper...I don't think the increase in violence in video games is affecting us, because there is a decrease in overall violence when you walk outside; at least <i>noticed</i> violence.
Besides, violence is part of human nature. If we weren't programmed this way, it would not have such allure for us. If we can do it in games rather than to each other, [yuppie] kudos [/yuppie].
My revelation in this matter came one day when I was watching Aliens (great flick, by the way) with my young son. I think he was about 7 or 8 at the time. As it got a little gruesome, I said to him "Maybe you shouldn't watch this part. It's pretty scary."
He looked at me like I was crazy and replied "Geez, Dad, it's just a movie."
Good advice.
And I play mainly Axis in DoD because I think Germans had the coolest equipment and army ever. And that doesn't mean I like nazis.
Violence just takes us back to our roots, not this urbanized "civilization" we live in now. It's something most people don't see much of in every day life, and they don't know how to react to anymore. Video games seem to prepare people for things like it; the bloodier the better.
Watching a fight is also a way satisfying the fascination with violence
Even in the roman times they watched fights (gladiators)
Much the same as today except it is fake (tv, movies, games etc.) but it still quenches the thirst for violence
That was just an random thought by me to ponder on <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
-Mouse, The Matrix.
I hate to say it people, but one of the primary charictaristics of human nature is violence.
Video games allow people to act out their fantasies of violence without the fear of reprecussion. Many are the times that i have gotten into homicidal rages, and turned to certain games to vent my frustrations. Of course there are people that take them too far, people do that with everything.
One thing that my parents taught me when i was young is that VIDEO GAMES/TV/MOVIES/ETC ARE NOT REAL. Do not attempt to do these things in real life.
"They blame it on Maryln, and the heroin.
But where were the parents at?"
-Eminem
of course, my two friends who don't play computer games anymore want to join the military to kill "A-rabs". They want to own 5.56mm (.223) rifles.
I play NS/CS, Vice City and Halo. I want to own a 5.7mm pistol for target shooting, when I get out of college. See the difference games make?
A) I like them. This immediately biases my view pretty severely <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
B) They encourage thought and stimulate the mind. NS especially, but all games in general. Playing half-life single player to me always seemed loosely like a sci-fi story being played out for real, but with an entirely different set of emphasized parts (ie telling a story through graphics, music, and action, with far less story). Anything that makes you think about anything, as far as i am concerned, is good.
C) People who kill other people were not encouraged to do it by games. They were violent to begin with or lacked the normal brain mechanisms to determine how to live. People predisposed to be violent may naturally be drawn to violent games. Here's a little example. Have you ever seen something that was really, truly violent? Car accident, war, body parts detached? One of those high school films convincing you to wear a seat belt by showing you people getting ripped apart after getting thrown out a window? Now, think about some scene of violence in a video game. Did the video game make you feel anything at all like the real violence does? No. It's an entirely different thing. To call them both violence almost seems stupid; video game violence is a totally different thing from real world violence. The reactions the two cause in the brain are entirely different, and it is impossible for me to think of a normal person seeing the two as the same thing.
D) They are an escape. Everyone needs an escape to stay sane.
There's more but my fingers are tired.
[11]alex
of course, my two friends who don't play computer games anymore want to join the military to kill "A-rabs". They want to own 5.56mm (.223) rifles.
I play NS/CS, Vice City and Halo. I want to own a 5.7mm pistol for target shooting, when I get out of college. See the difference games make? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm going into the military, but not as a soldier (well all military personnel are soldiers, but not specifically for that). I'd like to own a 5.7mm sidearm, but I'd also like to own a 7.62mm rifle - the best of both worlds <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'm still hooked on video games, have been since I was 4...I also train in karate and am very proficient at dismantling things in general <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Carpentry helped me learn that well.
Violence is a part of my personality as it is a part of everyone's, to a certain degree. Notice the people that cry about violence in video games are the ones who have never played and understood them.
It's like all of those Straight Edge kids who tell others how stupid getting drunk or high is when they've never experienced it once. Same goes for anti-firearms people. They've never fired a weapon, yet they so strongly advocate against it.
There are innumerable contradictions like this. I guess contradiction too, is a natural human trait <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
[edit]semantics & grammar[/edit]
They want to join for the EXPRESS purpose of killin "Ragheads", "Towelheads" and "A-Rabs". Not for learning discipline or finding who they are.
If I join (National Guard), it's because it pays for College and because I'd find out about myself.
And personally I'd want to own a 5.7mm Five-seveN for target shooting, a Desert Eagle .50AE simply because I love the design and an Avtomat Kalishnakov 1947 because it'd be fun for target shooting.
And violence is ingrained into humanity.
and yeah, but you can probably still get it somewhere.
I play games to escape reality, I play them to do stuff that I CAN'T and WON'T do in real life. They offer me an escape from this dreary bleak life. I was never in touch with reality anyway, and I believe that anybody who does go psycho does not do it becasue of games, but becasue they were messed up to begin with.
and yeah, but you can probably still get it somewhere. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course you can *GET* a 5-7 (I know how to spell it - but I'm abbreviating for the sake of not giving a crap), but it'd probably be illegal.
Personally I think that blood and gore is not prerequisite to a good game. I enjoy fps games because I enjoy the competition of trying to get better stats than my friends. I don't play them for the express purpose of killing any type of people. Anyone who does needs their head examined.
Blood in real life, or any type of dismembered body part etc makes me feel sick.
In Doom and Heart Of Evil my favorite weapon is the Chainsaw. Yet I don't feel too bad and certainly don't feel it when I use it.
Violence and Blood aren't too much of a bad thing it's just when games are marketed on them that it becomes a problem.
In real life I do not get queasy at the sight of blood, simply because I suffer from nose bleeds that are brought about by allergies and climate changes. This exposes me to it a lot. However, seeing things that are not so mundane do set me off.
And I agree with Tenebre, that it is not the blood that makes a game. Some people think that it does, that a game just isnt real unless the bodies are deformed, with organs oozing out a la SOF 1&2.
Lets look at C&C Generals for example.
Isnt it sick to make missions like those in the US Campaign where you are US and must conquer Irak?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
And then that female voice tells you to "Occupy the Oil Sources to help you in your war effort"?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Isnt this sick?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Isnt it sick that there is a game called "Blitzkrieg" (follower of SuddenStrike) which resembles WW2?
YES IT IS!
IT IS SICK!
AND ITS NOT A GAME ANYMORE ONCE YOU MAKE REAL EVENTS THAT WERE OR WILL BE A GAME!
Its fun to see a nuke kill 100 of your computer-units. But its not anymore if this happens in real.
I like NS because its not that way. Its more science-fiction and not real-world like.
No game should try to simulate real horrible things like war.