matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
<!--QuoteBegin--eve.playerone+Mar 3 2003, 08:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (eve.playerone @ Mar 3 2003, 08:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> pistol = only good long ranged weapon. bind mwheeldown +attack is hardly a script(kiddies). pistol is fine leave it alone =p <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd say that the pistol has a LOWER ROF than the LMG. If you bind it like that and then scroll really fast, you get off maybe two shots before you run out of finger. Scroll slower, you get off more shots per "finger", so to speak. From what I can measure, the pistol has a maximum ROF of about 10 shots/sec, compared to the LMG's 15 shots per second. What makes the pistol good isn't the ROF, it's the 100% accuracy.
<!--QuoteBegin--Tieom+Mar 4 2003, 08:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tieom @ Mar 4 2003, 08:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I still say we should get monster pistols with a small clip and big damage. Maybe 2 shots to kill a skulk, with about a .3 sec delay between shots. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> So marines can kill a skulk in the same time as a skulk can kill a marine, and do it at distance? That would be great.
Da_SargeOld School SuckJoin Date: 2002-10-15Member: 1502Members
By the sound of it, sounds like you guys let off shots like nothing with the pistol...WOW I wish I could do that. My terrible comp causes my pistol shots to take a good few seconds in between before I am able to fire again. I've given it a few tries...but it gets annoying when I only fire a bullet every 2-3 secs (on a good day <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> )
I think the rof needs to be capped indefinatly, and +attack shouldn't be able to be bound to mwheel. Yes, I do use it over the lmg. I know it's supposed to be a sidearm, but when it's better than the lmg, there is something wrong.
The pistol of NS was like the Glock in early CS. Glock had no set rof, so you could fire the glock like an mp5, and do the same damage, AND it was the starting weapon for the terrorists.
Then the Glock got nerfed so bad that the knife was better. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I trust the dev's to do this right though. They did say that 1.1 will need an extensive amount of playtesting to get everything as they want it.
<!--QuoteBegin--Da Sarge+Mar 4 2003, 10:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Da Sarge @ Mar 4 2003, 10:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> By the sound of it, sounds like you guys let off shots like nothing with the pistol...WOW I wish I could do that. My terrible comp causes my pistol shots to take a good few seconds in between before I am able to fire again. I've given it a few tries...but it gets annoying when I only fire a bullet every 2-3 secs (on a good day <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I can fire off an entire clip into a skulks leg by the time it turns around. And I don't usually tend to miss. They're also good at taking out babblers.
It would be kind of interesting to have special pistol upgrade, so that in the beginning pistol would be just back up weapon, but after the upgrade it would become a real über killah(like it is now). This way we could have both <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
For anyone who thinks pistol scripts don't exist or are just a bind to the mousewheel, here is a demo for you.
The first salvo is me firing about as fast as I can manually. Probably a lot slower than some of you Marine pro's. The second salvo is a script I wrote to fire ten bullets out.
Please note I can move freely while the script executes. It does not lock me in place. Please also note I could easily modify this script so that it only fires three shots instead of ten. Using the three shot method the entire clip can be emptied just as fast but I have the option of firing less overall bullets if I choose.
In other words, there is no weakness of "all or nothing" hiting. The script is fully customizeable to fire the number of bullets that you, the customer, wants.
Lastly, it would be no scripting feat to write a counterpart script that activates the fast firing when the pistol is active and goes back to normal fire mode when the primary weapon is active.
They exist. Here is your proof. If you still don't believe I'll gladly give a demonstration and distribute the code for it.
ZunniThe best thing to happen to I&S in a long whileJoin Date: 2002-11-26Member: 10016Members
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The pistol will definitely be changing for NS 1.1. I will leave it at that for now.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What he means is the pistol will become a railgun in 1.1...
I don't know if you notice but binding mwheeldown to +attack can EASILY make you have the ROF of an LMG. And if you call "clever" binding a script, then *bleh*
*snippit of my config* bind mwheeldown +attack bind mwheelup "impulse 7"
oh and also scripts have a limit: either you empty your clip, or you dont shoot a bullet. With the mwheel bind, you can easily control yourself.
btw, I'm all with a cap on the pistol <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Even if I can get an insane ROF with it (with the mwheel not a script!) I feel guilty to shoot so fast with what is a support weapon. I always use my primary if I have the ammo.
Okay another more detailed demo of a script in action. I just made the script fire three bullets in one mouse click. When the mouse button is clicked in rapid successtion, like you would when firing manually, it executes the script repeatedly as fast as it can. In effect emptying the clip. Fully customizeable to your liking provided you can understand basic scripts. I mean basic.
So you set it for whatever it takes to kill an uncarapaced skulk. Which is what? Four bullets? There you go, instant kill shotty with enough ammo for five kills. For free. At the beggining of the game. Carapace just means you click twice.
If you can do it manually. Cool. Good for you. If you can't a script will allow you to make crazy shots. I'm just tired of people acting like there is no script out there and everyone that mentions them is just frustrated newbies.
Listen to the sound in the demo after I offload the clip and the gun keeps firing and the empty sound is played real fast. Thats how I realized some people were using scripts. That sound effect when I would round a corner and they'd blow a wad of 10 bullets at me. If they'd miss I'd chomp 'em. I got used to there existance because, to be honest, if you allow it, it's going to happen. Cap the rate. My god have a contest. What person can offload ten the fastest. Cap it at slightly above that so every manual clicker can fire away and scripts can't. I'm all for it. Just stop pretending like they don't exist.
I mean come on. Just about all of us having been playing DoD, CS, and TFC for years prior to this MOD. We've got aim. Scripts like the pistol script are no replacement for aim. What they do give is a player with good aim to have an effective rail gun.
Just about every script that's been thought of has been done in CS and TFC. Recoil scripts, Conc Jump scripts. Stuff like this has been going on for years. It's not new. So why do so many people think NS has no one capable of writing these simple scripts? It makes no sense, it boggles my mind when I see people say "There are no scripts, they just click faster than you." Yes in some cases. And others there is script action. Other people in this thread have said they wrote their own. That is exactly what I did today when seeing someone say they don't exist. I'd known how they did it for awhile I just never used one as I prefer alien much more anyway. I'd rather spend time writing scripts for them.
So yeah, cap the rate of fire on that thing. No other changes. No less accurate. No less damage. Just cap the rate dev team.
That_Annoying_KidSire of TitlesJoin Date: 2003-03-01Member: 14175Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--TheHornet+Mar 3 2003, 04:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheHornet @ Mar 3 2003, 04:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i like the way the pistol is now, it wasa stated in the manual as: <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is more than a last resort weapon – the clever Frontiersman will make use of its perfect accuracy and impressive range. Its looping kinetic reload means that it takes the recoil energy from each shot and uses it to reload and recharge – so there is barely any kick, and it fires as fast as you can pull the trigger. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so i dont think its an accident the way it is today. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> however there is a big difference between hitting a mouse button, etc or using your scroll wheel (set as fire weapon) that way people can "snipe" with a pistol, I don't think thats what they had in mind...
<!--QuoteBegin--wizard@psu+Mar 3 2003, 11:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wizard@psu @ Mar 3 2003, 11:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> it is being fired by well trained soldiers wearing a form of power armor. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> as a matter of fact they aren't well-trained soldiers. i think the pistol _should_ be nerfed a little bit, but not accuracy-wise. maybe like rof would probably be good.
Comments
bind mwheeldown +attack is hardly a script(kiddies).
pistol is fine leave it alone =p <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd say that the pistol has a LOWER ROF than the LMG. If you bind it like that and then scroll really fast, you get off maybe two shots before you run out of finger. Scroll slower, you get off more shots per "finger", so to speak. From what I can measure, the pistol has a maximum ROF of about 10 shots/sec, compared to the LMG's 15 shots per second. What makes
the pistol good isn't the ROF, it's the 100% accuracy.
So marines can kill a skulk in the same time as a skulk can kill a marine, and do it at distance? That would be great.
The pistol of NS was like the Glock in early CS. Glock had no set rof, so you could fire the glock like an mp5, and do the same damage, AND it was the starting weapon for the terrorists.
Then the Glock got nerfed so bad that the knife was better. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I trust the dev's to do this right though. They did say that 1.1 will need an extensive amount of playtesting to get everything as they want it.
I can fire off an entire clip into a skulks leg by the time it turns around. And I don't usually tend to miss. They're also good at taking out babblers.
The first salvo is me firing about as fast as I can manually. Probably a lot slower than some of you Marine pro's. The second salvo is a script I wrote to fire ten bullets out.
Please note I can move freely while the script executes. It does not lock me in place. Please also note I could easily modify this script so that it only fires three shots instead of ten. Using the three shot method the entire clip can be emptied just as fast but I have the option of firing less overall bullets if I choose.
In other words, there is no weakness of "all or nothing" hiting. The script is fully customizeable to fire the number of bullets that you, the customer, wants.
Lastly, it would be no scripting feat to write a counterpart script that activates the fast firing when the pistol is active and goes back to normal fire mode when the primary weapon is active.
They exist. Here is your proof. If you still don't believe I'll gladly give a demonstration and distribute the code for it.
The demo.
<a href='http://home.alfredstate.edu/prechtjd/script.dem' target='_blank'>Educate yourself</a>
What he means is the pistol will become a railgun in 1.1...
W00T!!!
<jk??>
*snippit of my config*
bind mwheeldown +attack
bind mwheelup "impulse 7"
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> insane chuckling <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
oh and also scripts have a limit: either you empty your clip, or you dont shoot a bullet. With the mwheel bind, you can easily control yourself.
btw, I'm all with a cap on the pistol <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Even if I can get an insane ROF with it (with the mwheel not a script!) I feel guilty to shoot so fast with what is a support weapon. I always use my primary if I have the ammo.
<a href='http://home.alfredstate.edu/prechtjd/understand.dem' target='_blank'>Handy demo</a>
So you set it for whatever it takes to kill an uncarapaced skulk. Which is what? Four bullets? There you go, instant kill shotty with enough ammo for five kills. For free. At the beggining of the game. Carapace just means you click twice.
If you can do it manually. Cool. Good for you. If you can't a script will allow you to make crazy shots. I'm just tired of people acting like there is no script out there and everyone that mentions them is just frustrated newbies.
Listen to the sound in the demo after I offload the clip and the gun keeps firing and the empty sound is played real fast. Thats how I realized some people were using scripts. That sound effect when I would round a corner and they'd blow a wad of 10 bullets at me. If they'd miss I'd chomp 'em. I got used to there existance because, to be honest, if you allow it, it's going to happen. Cap the rate. My god have a contest. What person can offload ten the fastest. Cap it at slightly above that so every manual clicker can fire away and scripts can't. I'm all for it. Just stop pretending like they don't exist.
I mean come on. Just about all of us having been playing DoD, CS, and TFC for years prior to this MOD. We've got aim. Scripts like the pistol script are no replacement for aim. What they do give is a player with good aim to have an effective rail gun.
Just about every script that's been thought of has been done in CS and TFC. Recoil scripts, Conc Jump scripts. Stuff like this has been going on for years. It's not new. So why do so many people think NS has no one capable of writing these simple scripts? It makes no sense, it boggles my mind when I see people say "There are no scripts, they just click faster than you." Yes in some cases. And others there is script action. Other people in this thread have said they wrote their own. That is exactly what I did today when seeing someone say they don't exist. I'd known how they did it for awhile I just never used one as I prefer alien much more anyway. I'd rather spend time writing scripts for them.
So yeah, cap the rate of fire on that thing. No other changes. No less accurate. No less damage. Just cap the rate dev team.
so i dont think its an accident the way it is today. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
however there is a big difference between hitting a mouse button, etc or using your scroll wheel (set as fire weapon) that way people can "snipe" with a pistol, I don't think thats what they had in mind...
as a matter of fact they aren't well-trained soldiers. i think the pistol _should_ be nerfed a little bit, but not accuracy-wise. maybe like rof would probably be good.