School Reforms

Sirus · February 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">In High School</div> In the spirit of progressivism what are some reforms or changes that you would appreciate to see in the school system. This is a rather less-serious but nevertheless important post for a change. Hopefully, I'd like to see a serious opinions.

As of now, I'm pretty busy and my actual suggestions of ideas are going to be slim but in the near future ill be adding more ideas.

Probably the best one i can think of now is better scheduling for those who know what their major, so that they can plan their high school schedules and such around their major rather than taking classes that quickly fade in the mind of a student because of the lack of interest. Perhaps 1st year students would take the typical scheduling of all prereq's and then years there after would be more flexible for students with a plan.

/me points here <a href='http://www.cart.org' target='_blank'>Secondary High School</a>

I currently attend 2 high schools. One is a specialty high school for those who plan to take certain majors and each students can take a lab that completely revolves around that subject. Currently, its the only highschool like this in the world, and a couple weeks ago we had some visitors from Japan i believe.

I would like to see something like this integrated into normal highschools through the country/world.

It really is worthwhile, and is actually helping me get a job/internship and am getting experience that some people dont even get in college.

As a junior you can become C+ certified in highschool.

All in all, I'd like to see school reforms geared towards helping people achieve succesful careers.

moultano · February 2003

personally, I'd like to see economics as a universally required class.

Sirus · February 2003

It is, at the school i attend. Gov and Econ is mandatory.

Onuma · February 2003

Well, I wouldn't want to make it absolutely mandatory. School just is not for some people. Personally I'm good at school, but I find it ridiculously easy - High School was something to go to sleep to.

It seems that public school is tailored to fit to the requirements of the dumbest individuals, rather than having more difficult classes for smarter students. Yes, some schools have "Honors" and "AP" (Advanced Placement) classes where you can even earn college credits...but actually looking at the curricula, they are not very difficult; merely time consuming.

I was in a program when I was younger, called G&T - this program basically allowed the kids to explore things, build stuff, and figure things out. As silly as building model rockets and mechanical toys out of capsella might sound, it can really stimulate a child's mind. I can't exactly explain all of the other activities we did in that class, because I don't remember all of them (it was, after all, over 10 years ago), but the things I do remember exercised your mind. They did not just hand you a book and say "read and memorize these 50 pages by next week".

It's hard for me to put something into fewer words than this, but basically school needs to give more of a rounded education rather than giving 90% factual information, 10% other. This is probably the reason so many people have so little common sense these days <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

Courses I would like to see (or modify.):<ul>
<li>Public Speaking, at least 1 year
<li>Music (not Chorus...gah)
<li>English; modify the courses so you don't TELL a child what a specific poem is supposed to be, let them formulate their own opinion! A teacher should guide a student in the direction he or she is facing, but not say "A means this, and B means that".
<li>Driver's Ed. should be at least a full year...there are so many ****-poor drivers out there it is astonishing.
<li>Physical Education (simply "Gym" as it's known to me) should be at least 15 minutes of cardiovascular workout, and at least 30 minutes more of something else.
<li>Health teachers dealing with Sexual issues should not be restrained by these "My goodness! You can't speak of a **** in public school!" guidelines that do not even fit our society any longer. This is not the 1950's...let's face it.</ul>

Well that's just a bit of what I feel should be done in schools.
Questions? Comments? Cigarettes? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

[edit]forgot to close some tags before submission[/edit]

CanadianWolverine · February 2003

As far as I can tell, the biggest change needed in high schools is a break from it to experience what life is like trying to earn a livelihood.

I don't see how we can honestly expect people who have grown up with the school system for 12 or 13 years without it constricting and narrowing their view of life. Is it just me, or does it seem everyone coming out of highschool experiences a shock from paying bills for usually the first time that can eat up an entire paycheck. I see this most common in colleges and/or universities, where a highschool grad marches straight off to that higher education because it is the only life they know. Or how about how friends seem to change drastically once realistic responsibilities need to be discussed and shared by each other? I have observed many other peoples relationships - because I have so few of my own - sour because they no longer spend prolonged amounts of time together, so the shared experience is no longer there.

I really think that education benefits when you can take a break from just learning it and try to apply it to real life situations. If every, say, three or four years students were allowed a year off to go work and/or play, you'd see alot more life experience mature students coming out of highschool, with just quite possibly having earned resources to pay for their higher education on their own merit, making it that much more rewarding. That could also be a boon to any child growing up that wish they had the time to pay for something they really would like and still be able to dedicate time to studies without burning out. Also, it seems to me that would be a good way to gradually intergrate students into the work force, possibly providing a much needed source of income to students whose parents can't pay for all their explorative and adventurous needs. A sort of social co-op program approach to education, because as it is right now it is far too one-sided.

When highschool students get preached to about a reality check from their parents/guardians and teachers just because thats what they experienced themselves, rather than the student gradually learning the serious and sober aspects to maintaining their lives on an even ground through trial and error in an enviroment that gives some cushioning to the initial shock. I sincerely believe this would help bring about a much more meaningful education system where you know for certain you will be using what you learn there in real life and gradually become more productive to keep pace with the growth into adulthood, all without sacraficing time dedicated towards learning the source material of particular educational subjects.

I could see how those who are impatient would object to what would at first appear be tacking on an additional two to three years of highschool education, I have a firm belief that the freedom to use what you just learned in school in the real world gradually would leave a much more lasting impression of the importance of education and how we must each as an individual take up the responsibility to eventually educate ourselves without older people poking and proding into our lives.

Also, I could see how those that are older than students might feel scared that they are loosing control, since they already survived the reality check and would wish to maintain its hold over us, but that seems irrational when you consider that children always grow up and eventually strike out on their own, so I would rather they allow their children to be prepared for the daunting task of maintaining their lives in a stable manner.

I propose such an education system would give us a much better bang for our buck while at the same time maintain its usefulness as a tool for helping to make a productive member of society out of our children.

[edit]It appears me and Onuma wrote up our posts at almost the same time and we share similar views, though each of us has a different take on it and presentation of those ideas. I really like how we both hit on that its gotta be more than just "read and memorize these 50 pages by next week".[/edit]

Onuma · February 2003

Well put Wolverine.

You can't learn how to live life out of a book - you have to go out there, get knee deep into it, and learn the hard way.

People that don't have to learn how to do stuff the hard way are what I call "inherently wealthy". Mommy & Daddy take care of them and shelter them so well through their years, that they'll have someone paying their bills, doing their job, raising their kids, who knows maybe even wiping their *** for them.
Affluenza is the plague of humanity.

Sorry that was a little off-topic...

One of the most useful classes I'd taken during my grade school years was Home Economics. Yep, I learned how to cook, sew, eat right, and manage space from this one class. I can't say that one class has contributed more information that I have actually put to use. Even Kindergarten/1st Grade English did not teach me this much, but that's just me.
If kids aren't in Home-Ec, they should be for at least a year! It's not "girly" or "femenine", it's practical knowledge that should be common knowledge.

[edit] (So I don't have a 3rd post within 5 mins <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>)

Every person, preferably in their teen years (15-18 mainly) should have a job where they have to serve people. Wait(ress)ing, Bussing, Taking Orders (food or otherwise), being a "Go'fer", something of that nature. You can learn some good lessons from it - I did my time by working in a Restaurant, and a wholesale warehouse, as well as general contracting, mowing lawns, shoveling snow, raking leaves, etc.
All those kids who never look for jobs should really get out there and get one; even if it's one day a week and makes you a $40 paycheck, the fact that you earned it and it got you away from addictive games or whatever *cough* NS *cough* <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> it's well worth the time.

[/edit]

Smoke_Nova · February 2003

Looking at this, I realize i've been put through a very liberal public High School

Our course requirements (total 24 credits):
4 Years English
3 Years Social Studies
3 Years Mathematics
3 Years Science
1/2 Year Health
1 1/2 Year Phys Ed.
1/2 Year Computer Literacy
1/2 Year Career Exploration
1 Year Fine Arts

My Courses up to now: (*Denotes an honors level class)
Eng 9 - Genre*, Eng 10 - Narrative Patterns*
Eng 11 - Am. Lit Tradit* Eng 12 - 1/2Adv. Comp*, 1/2Modern Theatre*, 1/2Cinema Studies, 1/4Chaucer/Shakespear
Soc.Studies 9 - World Civ.*, Soc.Studies 10 - US/World Civ*, Soc.Studies 11 - US/World Civ. 20th Cent* Soc.Studies 12 - Psychology
Math stuff is Alegbra 1 up to Algebra 2
Sciences - Enviromental Science, Biology, Physics*, Chemsitry*

Now I consider myself to be smart, or at least well-read. The problem with our current school system is that we are sometimes given tests that are basically asking us to regurgitate something we'll never have to know again. My physics stuff has stuck with me (not the actual equations, but rather the application of them) mainly because my physics teacher made it intresting. Same thing with my chemistry teacher right now. My ancient world history and 20th cent history teacher is the same and he let us have discussions and such so that class was fun. Teachers shouldn't be forced to make class boring. If you discuss something, you are more likely to remember it because you had to challenge your mind. And the entire part about having majors for High School. it's a nice idea but you should have Technical Centers for that kind of stuff. I'm a senior (I graduate in June) in High School and I still have no firmly seated clue of what I wanna do with my life. Political Science, Philosophy or something liberal arts is what I plan on studying, but I don't know.

bubbleblower · February 2003

Wow, there's a lot of stuff I could say about this topic, in the form of a long drunken ramble that would last into the wee hours of the morning. But I'll try to keep it short, even though I'm sure I won't.

First of all, I think that when you talk about school reforms it is important to differentiate between what is in the best interest of a student as an individual, versus what the government is trying to accomplish in order to do its job. The two are very different.

In a nutshell, as children we grow up knowing there are problems in the world, but we really have no way of knowing *just*how*bad*it*is* until you live as an adult for a while, and realize that the people in charge, at best, are your equals, and frequently, beneath you. "Runaway train on fire" would be the term I would use to describe the prognosis of nearly every company or government organization I can think of. I say that because true security is impossible, and at every moment there are a million "what ifs" that are equally threatening, and no way to address them all. As a result, most adults in the workplace carry on in sort of a "melee battle" mindset, not physically, but in the sense that throughout the course of a 40 year career they are seldom looking ahead more than a few months. This has the effect on society of everyone constantly feeling like they're on the verge of emergency, and therefore, they tend to try to keep everything and everyone inside of their "proper boxes" because they feel if they don't, the entire world will fly apart and explode.

That is the real atmosphere that shapes the goals of the education system, which ultimately has its place inside of a master government plan to keep the lights on and the fires out. A buddy of mine who is a teacher was explaining it to me like this: In order to be able to keep score on how it is doing, the goverment MUST have a plan for every possible contingency in terms of what a kid grows up to be. Due to limited time and resources, it is much easier for the government to try to reduce the number of possible outcomes, so it doesn't have to spread its resources as thinly. For their own purposes they benefit from constant testing and benchmarking of students, measured against a "system." Everyone involved knows their place on the system and the outcome. Lowest rung = jail. Highest rung = money and happiness.

This is total BS, but it keeps the students in a convenient mindset. The government sees it a little more accurately- lowest rung = jail (costly), mid-range = out of sight, out of mind, and high-range = competitive edge economically against other countries. Important note: YOUR PERSONAL FULFILLMENT IS NOT IN THE EQUATION. Government is a broadsword, and it does what we need it to do- ensure some basic level cooperation that prevents outright anarchy and rampant looting and pillaging. But as long as you're paying taxes and obeying laws, they're done with you- the rest is up to YOU. The government just basically needs to see the results of standardized testing to determine the following: Where do we need more jails? Where do we need more cops? Which schools are so rat-infested we can't put off dynamiting them one more day? Keep in mind that they aren't evaluating all of this in a vacuum- they have way less money than they have problems. Only the squeakiest wheels get grease. The same dollars someone wants for computers in school are the SAME DOLLARS they need to fund a war to take out so-and-so so before the orcs invade. They have to balance between spending money to fight off foreign orcs, with the problem of their own children turning INTO orcs from neglect.

At the risk of being redundant, can you see how your personal preferences for your life are not a factor in the least?

So, after having hopefully cast some doubt towards the intentions of the system as they relate to your individual life, on to the subject of what the individual needs.

That's a hugely complicated question, and one I'm unqualified to answer completely because personalities are different. All I can offer are some of the wish lists from my own life.

What worked:
Reading, Writing, aRithmatic- I was a good student, and being good at these has always allowed me to get things done a lot quicker with a lot less effort expended.
Obeying laws: You can only get away with fighting the system openly for as long you don't get caught. Once you do, the vice starts to tighten exponentially, ultimately backed up in my case by the nuclear arsenal of the United States armed forces. "I fought the law, and the law won..."
Physical fitness: I wish there had been more, but at least I got a taste. Now that I'm starting to age, it is critical to be able to know what it takes to get in shape.

What didn't:
Grades, tests, routines, schedules, absolutes: All BS. I was a gifted student, and I maxed out on these consistently through high school with barely any effort. For students above a certain level they are meaningless, and pretty much laughable by the time you are an adult. The adult world runs on one thing and one thing only: RESULTS. Nobody cares about your effort, your intentions, or frankly, YOU. If they give you money it is because you have something they want, and the amount of money is determined by pure economics. You don't have to have had high grades in school, have a bachelor's degree, or work 40 hours a week to make money, or even a lot of money. You simply have to have something somebody wants, and can't get anywhere else for a lower price. People that cheat in school for any reason other than efficiency are in trouble- they won't get squat just for having good grades. You can either do the job or not, and that is obvious on the first day of work.

Taboos: News flash- Most adults (18+) who wish to, have sex. No additional modifiers or qualifications. That has ALWAYS been the case, and probably always will be. Schools are not consistent on basic sex education, and that is a mistake. Also, drug education is really skewed. They spam the hell out of the airwaves about weed and tobacco. It's your choice to not use them. It is irresponsible and criminal to abuse them. Most normal people will fall in between these two categories, so they might as well quit spamming a fantasy that will evaporate as soon they get to college anyway. People will ALWAYS go their separate ways about these subjects, so it is dangerous and backward to spread misinformation. YES, tobacco is addictive, and will kill you. NO, buying weed is not the same as funding terrorism. YES, minors drinking alcohol could lead to alcohol-related deaths- the exact same way it does to adults throughout their ENTIRE LIVES.

Not setting my own goals: I made the mistake for a long time of thinking the world was my oyster for having good grades and being at the top of my class. More BS. Unless you call the shots, the only thing you can control about your life is WHERE you spend the 40 hours a week, and how much you get paid. You'll still be surround by a$$holes, you'll still get 2 weeks or at most a month off a year, and have hardly any time for yourself. (8 hours work + lunch + 1-2 hours commute.) And that's pretty much it- you keep showing up for 40 years, gaining moderate predictable amounts of power and money, until you retire, and they throw a half hour office party complete with 1 liter bottles of Coke, Diet Coke, 7-Up, Root Beer, and a storebought Safeway cake. And then on average, you're dead within 10 to 12 years, and the world keeps right on going.

If I were I to give advice to my teenage self, I would say, "Take those skills you're so good at, and ignore all the praise heaped on you. Start preparing for the storm. Start the process of learning how to compete with adults for resources, because they're hogging all of them on purpose, and waiting to rape in you the a$$ the minute you stumble out of school into your "bright future." Start thinking about what you really want out of life and get ready to make horrible sacrifices. Know that most of the easy money is surrounded by thieving vultures, and you're not going to be able to be around it without changing your personality. Know that most nice people who are young are totally broke. Know that most adults will not endorse nor understand any path other than seeking material gain through traditional employment, but that doesn't mean they're right. You can probably get what you want if it is halfway reasonable, but you'll have to get used to fighting a losing war for YEARS until one day all of a sudden the dam breaks and you realize you've made it. Most people won't wait that long so ignore their advice."

And then my teenage self would nod politely, and do the exact same thing over again because I didn't have any life experience that would give those words any meaning. Oh well. If you already understand, good for you, avoid my mistakes. At any rate, I'm 25, and after a lot of suffering I'm finally getting the hang of working as a freelance artist, without selling out to an office. Sometimes the money is good, other times, bad, and I'm working on the mix. But I can get up in the morning and live each day in the mood of my choosing, a right I always thought to be basic, but in reality something it turns out you have to fight fiercely for.