A Reason Why D Must Come First

Speed_2_Dave · February 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">Perhaps it has to do with the LMG</div> [edit] Let's flame each other while talking about which chamber is best to put up first, or

I'm too N00B to kill a turret without carapace, or

Let's try to find something to talk about that's been talked to death.

I'm testing this stuff out as soon as I get a friend to work on it, but All demos I've recorded don't run.

[/edit]

Smoke_Nova · February 2003

I've never noticed a difference firing my LMG or HMG at the first rounds doing more...and usually when I fight marines as Kharaa, I die at the same rate from breached clips then from fresh clips...and besides that, cloaking makes you hard to see = hard to shoot = marines become walking lunch boxes.

ubermensch · February 2003

i'm not sure how true that is, but a thing i like to do is use the pistol to put about 3-5 rounds into an oncoming skulk, then whip out my LMG and finish em off with about 20 rounds.

its VERY effective, maybe what your're saying about first rounds finishing off quicker is true ...

masterswordman · February 2003

I do like D, but for the regeneration, I think caraspace and all that other **** is *BOOTY*.

V_MAN · February 2003

Regeneration is useless on skulks redemption is good for the money pigs.

As for cloaking on the first hive :/ I have found that it requires a clued up alien team and a slightly stupid marine team for the aliens to win.

Speed_2_Dave · February 2003

[edit] why do I bother, no one listens anyways [/edit]

Smoke_Nova · February 2003

Well, one has to remember that the NS weapons still use traditional cased rounds and so the first few rounds *in theory* should be more powerful because the marines would probably keep the weapons clean but after a few rounds are fired grime and powder and brass shavings would slowly clog the exit velocity of the round. I think. I don't know much about the internal workings of a gun except that it makes things fall down dead when I pull the little crescent moon trigger.

Speed_2_Dave · February 2003

[edit] why do I bother, no one listens anyways [/edit]

Catpoker · February 2003

i like to pratice without carapace, i usually get about an even score by the games end, you dont NEED carapace, its all in your head

go without carapace a few games, learn to suprise your enemys

Shockeh · February 2003

Being one of the SDM or SMD activists, I'm not even going here again.

If you wanna hear some actual reasons for my arguments, rather than just 'I wanna be different' search my name in Kharaa strategy. The thread is 9 pages long.

(No, I'm not taking credit for it - but I put a lot of stuff in it)

Cry_Havoc · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kann_nix @ Feb 8 2003, 02:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> i'm not sure how true that is, but a thing i like to do is use the pistol to put about 3-5 rounds into an oncoming skulk, then whip out my LMG and finish em off with about 20 rounds.

its VERY effective, maybe what your're saying about first rounds finishing off quicker is true ...  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Then the skulk must be coming at you from the end of a long corridor.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

heathenSlayer · February 2003

With cloaking, how do you take out a defended area with turrets?
You don't.

Maus · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (heathenSlayer @ Feb 8 2003, 02:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> With cloaking, how do you take out a defended area with turrets?
You don't.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
You don't use the same tactics if you have cloaking first. You harrass the marines enough to make them not <i>want</i> to build up a specific area.

CBD-Ikariya · February 2003

And then they get motion tracking and it's game over for the cloakers <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Maus · February 2003

But while you've been denying them res and blocking choke points, your gorge(s) had the run of the map and got the second hive up - then you have either celerity or carapace for the skulks.

Slycaster · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CBD-Ikariya @ Feb 8 2003, 09:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> And then they get motion tracking and it's game over for the cloakers <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Remember, motion tracking does -not- show locations of cloaked aliens, nor any alien that isn't moving. The only truely effective way to stop cloak ambushes and whatnot, is a smart commander using scanner sweep regularly, which is costly in its own right.

xioutlawix · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (heathenSlayer @ Feb 8 2003, 09:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> With cloaking, how do you take out a defended area with turrets?
You don't.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
I can, and I do.

Why can't you?

Dread · February 2003

Lets face it, people are too damn stupid to use cloaking effectively. It requires teamwork and staying still(patience) and usually you can't find these from pub servers. If people would know that Kharaas would own the game if skulks would camp in the marine enrances cloaking would be _overpowered_. Now its underpowered because people don't know how to use it properly.

masterswordman · February 2003

This is why D must come first, thou to respond, regeneration is very useful. Hey, it is, so don't whine. I make lots of skulk kills with regeneration. Because, then you can just hide in a dark corner, regen, and attack again, the marines can't notice you.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> - 5 Hp //Regenerating goshdarn.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> -100 Hp where did he go?

CBD-Ikariya · February 2003

Cloaking I think just isn't flexible enough. Carapace benefits every type of player in a significant way, and provides the skulk with much needed base/group breaking ability which they severely lack. Even though cloaking has the potential to be quite devastating, it just doesn't suit a lot of players' playing style, and it basically ends the game if the kharaa aren't able to contain the marines.

xioutlawix · February 2003

The problem mainly is pubs.
I play mostly with my clan, and for an organized, flexible team, cloaking is godly.

Most people still play skulks as if they were deathmatch warriors, and thus defense suits their style. Those with their team skills a little more honed can make anything work.

Btw, anyone ever notice how the main argument for defense first is either regeneration, carapace, or the fact that defense heals your OC's?

Dunno about you guys, but regeneration and carapace doesn't seem to really save my butt for any noticeable period of time, and as marine, if I wanted to get through some OC's I can chew through them just about as easily as if there were no DC's backing them up.

I think the reality of the matter lies in that people overestimate the usefulness of the DC, and underestimate the usefulness of the SC.

Then again, most of the players I see playing skulk are charging marines from straight down a long hallway, virtually no one uses stealth, hides above arch/doorways or on ceilings, playing as if this were deathmatch. Thus its no wonder these individuals complain about the lack of usefulness of sensory chamber, its not in their playing style.

CanadianWolverine · February 2003

Well said xioutlawix. I geuss that is why NS is so appealing, it suits almost any style of player.

coil · February 2003

I love how completely people ignored the initial post.

Speed 2 Dave, can you verify that the first few bullets fire faster? Do some demos; if you're right, submit it to the Bug Forum.

Charge · February 2003

maybe the first rounds actually hit <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

xioutlawix · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coil @ Feb 8 2003, 02:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I love how completely people ignored the initial post.
 </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
No problem, its what we do <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Maus · February 2003

The thing is, people want carapace because they're too weak to go around on their own. So why not move in pairs and small groups, like the marines do? This is the single most important difference between clan games and pubs at the moment, I think. Aliens don't think to stick together for some mystifying reason.

Also, play intelligently. At range if a marine sees you you're dead meat unless you have cara or cover to find. Up close, two bites and an unupgraded marine is skulk-food. I get many kills bysimply baiting marines to come around the corner for what they think is an easy kill, then munch them when they appear.

The main reason people like their Cara so much is simply because they don't have to be as careful - they can play sloppily and get away with it.

Obliterater · February 2003

Some one said that the fire rate of guns changed slightly with your framerate, maby that is why it seems to fire faster, after the first few shots the framerate slowed down. I may be wrong about this, i remeber seeing a topic about framerate and Jetpack/gun fire rate but i might have missunderstood it or something.

A Reason Why D Must Come First

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