The Beginning Of The Hax0r Antichrist
Killymagee
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3136Members
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3136Members
<div class="IPBDescription">A gaming Prophecy</div> 1337 + 666 = 2003 <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
<span style='color:white'><b> Notice how the "bong" smiley isn't included in the clickable smilies? It's going to stay that way.</span></b>
<span style='color:white'><b> Notice how the "bong" smiley isn't included in the clickable smilies? It's going to stay that way.</span></b>
Comments
In the course of writing this post, I have realized preparing a detailed argument about this would make me seem like one of those Fundamental Christian types with a stick up my butt, so I'm not going to. However, I lack the common sense to stop typing and not click that add reply button, especially this late at night.
Short and sweet, This is not the year of the anti-Christ. Gamer or otherwise. Nice job finding that out though, I guess. I'm tired, so I'm going to shut up and hit add reply, then go to sleep.
It was done for laughs, if you didnt laugh dont bother posting, save yourself some time. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Oh and people who say "y0ur a NewBie" is a NERD. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
hehe
And guys, a little understanding, both killymagee and Legionnaired.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Take it easy, it is a joke simple as that. If you think about it for a long time then you need serious help....
It was done for laughs, if you didnt laugh dont bother posting, save yourself some time.
Oh and people who say "y0ur a NewBie" is a NERD. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It may be a joke to you, but i dont think anything anti-christ is funny, just understand that. Also guys, we dont need repostes that are personal attacks even if they seen=m tame and harmless. That goes to both of you.
Also, I could also go into a detailed argument also Legion, I have a feeling we're on the same level, but likewise, i will not.
This is what bothers me though.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you think about it for a long time then you need serious help....<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not funny to some of us, and when we see people laughing at it we try and think why would they think thats funny. Hence, why we "think about it for a long time".
It really seems to be a minor offense, but for the sake of proving a point, don't joke around with stuff like this, no matter how small it may be.
There are books filled with things like these. I saw a book entitled Bible Code 2 (THERE ARE TWO OF THESE?!) that, using a mathematical equation, translates the words in the Bible into something else entirely.
Why do people do this? Why are number crunchers so willing to find some secret code in the Bible, yet they ignore what it really has to say?
Chill guys it's not like it was an all out attack on christianity.It was actually quite clever if I say so myself.
It's this kinda crap that causes religious hatred and causes the so called "atheists" to reaffirm their belife that religion is a waste of effort.
Don't be so fookin touchy
And by the way, the time until the world ends is derictly related to the gestation period of your average gnome. Did you ever do that rabbit equation in school? Well Gnomes like to screw as well, and they have no natural enemies!
Don't be so fookin touchy<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sirus is right on multiple accounts, firstly, I shouldn't have worded my post in the way I did, I apologize.
However, the Anti-christ isn't going to be some dude who has a number 666. It's going to be someone that persecutes everyone who believes or has thought about believeing in Jesus Christ. Not to mention the taking over of the world, stuff like that. Read Revelations if you want to know more, there's a lot of prophesy in there.
Anyway, thanks for coming up with a coherant response when I could not Sirus.
Oh, and to the post I've quoted, yeah, check my sig. It's certainly something I need to work on.
AllUrHiveRBelong2Us <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why is it that whenever someone brings up releigion, everyone gets offended, but when people bring up politics, people just argue back?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I try to argue back, Sirus and Josiah Bartlet on these forums seem like the kind of people that would as well. The reason why a lot of religious people get rubbed the wrong way when someone says something against religion, is the fact that a lot of us believe in it, and pretty much use it as a cornerstone to our life. In the US, for better or for worse, few people hold polatics so dear to their heart that they get angry when someoen speaks out against it. However, what would you think GW would say if you told him "You're a stupid leader, you are wrong, and eveything you say is a lie"? Not well, I'll tell you that right now.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> First, I don't suggest even creating a topic that involves, year of the anti-christ. Take this seriously people, i wouldn't joke around with things like the tribulation.
It may be a joke to you, but i dont think anything anti-christ is funny, just understand that. Also guys, we dont need repostes that are personal attacks even if they seen=m tame and harmless. That goes to both of you.
It really seems to be a minor offense, but for the sake of proving a point, don't joke around with stuff like this, no matter how small it may be.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This, in particular, was what I was talking about. The gist of these being "simply becuase I hold this idea 'sacred' means that you should not be able to discuss them in a negative light."
This(and the fact that the prodestant church is the tool of capitalism, but that's another story) is the main thing that ticks me off about christians. They say that, simply becuase the idea of god is "holy" they should be allowed to believe what they believe, and it should not be talked in of in the public arena. If I said that my views on Politics and Economics were so spacial that they should never be talked ill of, even if you don't believe in them, you would call me a crazy comunist, and I would promptly be laughed out anyplace I wen to discuss my beliefs on the subject, but, for some reason, we are allowed to say that of religion, and no one thinks anything of it.
There are books filled with things like these. I saw a book entitled Bible Code 2 (THERE ARE TWO OF THESE?!) that, using a mathematical equation, translates the words in the Bible into something else entirely.
Why do people do this? Why are number crunchers so willing to find some secret code in the Bible, yet they ignore what it really has to say?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
IRC, each Greek word has a numerical counter-part (6=imperfection 666=absoulte imperfection, etc), and the Book of Revlations had all those numeical hidden messages so only Christians understood what was being said. I believe that some people are translating the entire Bible to Greek and doing something with the numbers, I'm not sure though.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> First, I don't suggest even creating a topic that involves, year of the anti-christ. Take this seriously people, i wouldn't joke around with things like the tribulation.
It may be a joke to you, but i dont think anything anti-christ is funny, just understand that. Also guys, we dont need repostes that are personal attacks even if they seen=m tame and harmless. That goes to both of you.
It really seems to be a minor offense, but for the sake of proving a point, don't joke around with stuff like this, no matter how small it may be.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This, in particular, was what I was talking about. The gist of these being "simply becuase I hold this idea 'sacred' means that you should not be able to discuss them in a negative light."
This(and the fact that the prodestant church is the tool of capitalism, but that's another story) is the main thing that ticks me off about christians. They say that, simply becuase the idea of god is "holy" they should be allowed to believe what they believe, and it should not be talked in of in the public arena. If I said that my views on Politics and Economics were so spacial that they should never be talked ill of, even if you don't believe in them, you would call me a crazy comunist, and I would promptly be laughed out anyplace I wen to discuss my beliefs on the subject, but, for some reason, we are allowed to say that of religion, and no one thinks anything of it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting observation.
Anyway, I think you're right. Personally, I think people challenging my religion gives me a perfect opportunity to learn more about it my self, in teh search for answers to questions they bring up.... So yeah...
No harm done, and looks like everything's been cleared up, so yeah.
and I have studied the subject for a decent time. (I am interested in religion partialy b/c I have none)
here is the general gist of things:
1) insulting/making jokes on religion just isnt all that smart. You are bound to offend some one.
2) making assumptions (making an **** out of u and me) about religion simply showes a lack of knowledge about said religion (I know people who do this alot, and it REALY upsets my friends who are of the religion that is being insulted)
3) Discussing religion/politics is a decent and ok thing, however making wise***ed cracks about it is not ok b/c you are insulting the bases of manypeoples lives.
Oh, and here is where I am coming from:
Both my parents WERE protestant, my dad simply is sorta lazy and it does not meen any tihng to him and my mom is one of the few types of Athiests I accept (does not believe that there is a higher being b/c of all of the Horrible things that happen, remember she was brought up to believe that god was wise and benevolent, she has seen some bad things in her life and thus no longer believes).
Though my mom is athiest I was not brought up to hate religion, forced to not believe in god, etc. Infact we celebrate XMass (family gathering, time to express love and my extended family still is christian). I also have attended church with my friends many times, as well as attending a Jewish Day cmap for most of my childhood (decent view on both religions). I know only know about Islam due to some college Courses (very interesting religion).
Bahh, basicaly what I am trying to say is that please remember that many people find jokes/insults to religion VERY VERY offensive (much the same as racial/ethnic/what not slurs ****, Whop, Spic, Chink, etc etc etc).
Just think a few seconds before you post.
Thank you (I hope this topic aint already locked)
To tell the truth, I was AFK <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> .
and I have studied the subject for a decent time. (I am interested in religion partialy b/c I have none)
here is the general gist of things:
1) insulting/making jokes on religion just isnt all that smart. You are bound to offend some one.
2) making assumptions (making an **** out of u and me) about religion simply showes a lack of knowledge about said religion (I know people who do this alot, and it REALY upsets my friends who are of the religion that is being insulted)
3) Discussing religion/politics is a decent and ok thing, however making wise***ed cracks about it is not ok b/c you are insulting the bases of manypeoples lives.
Oh, and here is where I am coming from:
Both my parents WERE protestant, my dad simply is sorta lazy and it does not meen any tihng to him and my mom is one of the few types of Athiests I accept (does not believe that there is a higher being b/c of all of the Horrible things that happen, remember she was brought up to believe that god was wise and benevolent, she has seen some bad things in her life and thus no longer believes).
Though my mom is athiest I was not brought up to hate religion, forced to not believe in god, etc. Infact we celebrate XMass (family gathering, time to express love and my extended family still is christian). I also have attended church with my friends many times, as well as attending a Jewish Day cmap for most of my childhood (decent view on both religions). I know only know about Islam due to some college Courses (very interesting religion).
Bahh, basicaly what I am trying to say is that please remember that many people find jokes/insults to religion VERY VERY offensive (much the same as racial/ethnic/what not slurs ****, Whop, Spic, Chink, etc etc etc).
Just think a few seconds before you post.
Thank you (I hope this topic aint already locked)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Enforcing an overly serious stigma on any topic and insisting it is "special" (this goes for race, religion, politics, nationalism, ANYTHING!) does nothing but make any "acceptable" talk on that subject more serious, meaning that both sides will reduce themsleves to lower and lower tactics, and neither will ever be willing to budge, simply because the issue they are fighting over is to "sacred", or "serious". One does not have to go out of his way to offend, but insisting that others refrain from joking about something, simply because others may be offended is overly PC and unneaded in an open and free society.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->To tell the truth, I was AFK <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> . <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know what to make of that.
Again, you are arguing that everything should be fair game, some thing I simply can not agree with. While it might be acceptable in private (hell I have a polish friend that has every single polish joke you can think of, and he loves em), but when you are in public remember that you just might seriously offened some one.
again, you never know what some one has gone through, some one who has had to deal with alot of realy bad things b/c of their beliefes (in some places christianity is constantly ragged uppon and christians who live there get very touchy and do not enjoy some random person o/l making fun of their religion b/c they have to deal with it every day in RL, the same goes for every religion/race/creed).
However, if you want to have a discussion on religion or what not most people are VERY willing to discuss their beliefes (so long as it is a discussion, not just some tool spewing his ignorant views and refusing to listen to anything else). Forinstance if you find an article about some statment that the Pope made, and you came here and discussed it rationaly (pointed out errors with out being derogitory/what not) many people would be very willing to discuss. On the other hand if you come in saying "Hey look, the popes a tool, look and this stupid **** he said" the thread will be locked probably.
again, I am not saying that you have to pussyfoot around the subject(thats getting cencored ;D), jsut be consideret with your posts.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If this "person two" was meant to be me(or anyone like me) you have been making far to many assumptions. If this "person two" was meant to be me, he would have gone to church for his entire life(though not willingly, forced to by overbearing family) and does not not dislike christianity because it "drags you down"(although it does), he dislikes christianity becuase it is built on a very simple false premise, that there is a god, and that even though this god loves you, he will still send you to hell if you don't like him(this was, in fact, what the sermon at my church this week was about, the pastor said that god doesn't send people to hell, they send themselves, and if god just got rid of hell, we would all be like robots, without the capability of sin, and that having a hell gives us free choice. I immediately thought of "1984", because, although everyone in that book has "free choice", if they make the wrong one, they die. Doesn't seem like much of a choice to me). I treat christianity as a joke becuase everything is worthy of being treated as such. It's a simple as that.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh do not worry, what I was saying was not aimed at anyone in particular, not even anyone in the forum, but it's your basic atheist point of view.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->he dislikes christianity becuase it is built on a very simple false premise, that there is a god, and that even though this god loves you, he will still send you to hell if you don't like him(this was, in fact, what the sermon at my church this week was about, the pastor said that god doesn't send people to hell, they send themselves, and if god just got rid of hell, we would all be like robots, without the capability of sin, and that having a hell gives us free choice. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sorry that your pastor said it like that, it doesn't sound right at all.
But first you need to understand this. Adam sinned, not God. He gave man free choice, and even though he is omnipotent and knew it would happen he still allowed him to make the mistake, I think of the example of a baby learning to walk, if you never gave the child a chance then it would be handicapped, the baby will fall down but will learn to walk. ... Also God doesn't send you to hell. (If you do not have any freedom you are a slave, God did not want to create slaves.) It says in scripture that because we are evil we cannot be with God. Yes, evil, in the lifespan of one man he will lie over and over again , thousands of times, tear people down with his words and other malicious things we do everyday over and over.
Actually people don't need God, all you have to do is be perfect and without sin and you can go spend eternity with God, but God knew we would never be able to do that, so he sent Jesus as a savior. Jesus is God, you need to understand that, and for God to come down to earth and be beaten with his skin ripped from his back and brutally beaten over and over and bleeding, then finally being nailed to a cross just because he knew we would sin because we're terrible people. Isn't that love? Someone who would make such a big sacrifice even though we deserve nothing. Don't be mistaken, humans can be terrible people, we don't think its always that big of a deal because we do it all the time, but we fool ourselves. But because of the sacrifice, Jesus, a perfect being, died for everyones sin and sin to come. All we have to do know is acknowledge that he made such a sacrifice and truely believe that and we're forgiven.
Please tell your pastor to clarify more, and God will get rid of hell, its a prophecy, its in revelation if you look.
I know guys that this may sound likes it out of a science fiction book and its really weird. But look outside, think of the complexities of your body, look at the universe, we don't even know how big it is, look at the ocean, Look outside. Can this all be a mistake? Just a random explosion, or 1 mutating cell?
No, it can't be, everything works too perfectly to be a mistake.
Seriously guys, look outside for 5 minutes...there's no way all of this is just a mistake.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->However, if you want to have a discussion on religion or what not most people are VERY willing to discuss their beliefes (so long as it is a discussion, not just some tool spewing his ignorant views and refusing to listen to anything else). Forinstance if you find an article about some statment that the Pope made, and you came here and discussed it rationaly (pointed out errors with out being derogitory/what not) many people would be very willing to discuss. On the other hand if you come in saying "Hey look, the popes a tool, look and this stupid **** he said" the thread will be locked probably.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People make those kind of remarks regarding political opinions, I don't see why religion should be any different. I don't think people should have to make such remarks, but I think they should be able to, and certainly to joke around about another beliefs, hower ignorant they might be.
I don't know what to make of that.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't have any reaction to it, and if I did, I couldn't have voiced it anyway because I was AFK.
Oh, and regarding your PC comment, yeah, to understand how I feel about PC, read Farenheit 451.
If you're too lazy, I think it's bad, but I still try not to deliberately make people mad. Don't be afraid to state the facts or your opinion though.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I really don't see where a discussion is needed to determine whether religion is oppresive or not, I see religious oppresion everywhere. From the 10 commandments in schools(christians believe it will help our schoolchildren be more moral when it obvioslly didn't help many catholic prests) to slavery used on a religious basis, to the outlawing of homosexuality in many states(happily not mine or the state bordering mine, GO VERMONT AN NH!) it's all forcing the religious morals on the masses that do not neccasarily want to follow these morals, or believe those morals to be correct<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
see, that is exactly my problem, you refuse to look at other sides of the argument, and you make vast assumptions on a few things:
1) 10 commandments in schools (can't be done if the community dosn't want it to, go bill of rights). Also that is only christianity, and only some sects of christianity (never ever generalize protestants, catholics, and EOs they are basicaly 3 seperate religions)
2) slavery used on a religious basis? where?
3) Outlawing f homosexuality, that is not only for religious reasons (many NO religious ppl are homophobic, and as a side note I am not). One of my best friends, she is protestant (can't remember what sect, oh and the sect is VERY important), both her parents are pastures (yes the mother also) and yah know what, they are fighting to ORDAIN HOMOSEXUALS!! don't generalize religions like that.
4) Protastants, EOs, and Jews DO NOT BELIEVE IN CONVERSION. IF you ever go to a Jewish or Protestant supe kitchan or missonary site they will never speak of religion to you unless oyu ask them too.
They believe that these things are A) good for their souls and B) that by showing thier good morals others will want to folow suit
oh, and never get into a religious argument with a Jeovas Witness, they will kick your **** with it (they are very very devout and folow their path with absolute rigior, and I can't stand them for prostletising, but oh well)
If god's gonna get rid of hell, then why does it matter? O, and by the way, I would like to see the scripture on this topic, if it's not to much trouble, becuase I've read that particular book several times, and although I managed to figure out that everyone in hell is gonna get a second chance, I didn't see anything about hell being disbanded. and I assume that hell is different from the fiery pit in this case, correct?(I realise that the vision of a fire and ice hell, and indeed the word "hell" came from nowhere within christianity itself, but from teh norse)
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->No, it can't be, everything works too perfectly to be a mistake.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's where you're wrong my freind. The universe is in constant chaos. There are only two constants in the universe. Everything else is subject to change. EVERYTHING. For crying out loud, we can't even know where anything even is. Does this seem like perfection? The fact that we exist is because of pure chance. It could have been that when the universe had been formed, it may have been formed in a way that the 3rd dimensions was squeezed to tighty on the p-brane or far to large for us to exist within it, makeing everything two dimensional, or it could have been that the fourth dimension had been the right size for us to exist within it, thus keeping any gravitational force from working correctly, but it didn't happen that way. Now, you may say, "isn't this proof that god created the universe, and kept all these situation from occuring?" But it isn't, because although these situations have occured in alterante universes(which do exist, mind you. This is proven.) Where was god when those were created? He wasn't there. Occam's razor triumphs again! I guess it pays to have read both of Hawking's books all the way through.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1) 10 commandments in schools (can't be done if the community dosn't want it to, go bill of rights). Also that is only christianity, and only some sects of christianity (never ever generalize protestants, catholics, and EOs they are basicaly 3 seperate religions)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So, you're telling me that there has never, nor wil there ever, be talk of forcing all schools to put up the 10 commandments in schools by a large amount of christians? In this case, the talk is as good as the act.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2) slavery used on a religious basis? where?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So now you're telling me that slave owners(most of which in the US where southern christians) have never used a religious reason to rationalise slavery? And even if the Americans hadn't, the critish fueadal serf system(which was virtual slavery) was heavily enforced by the Catholic church.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->3) Outlawing f homosexuality, that is not only for religious reasons (many NO religious ppl are homophobic, and as a side note I am not). One of my best friends, she is protestant (can't remember what sect, oh and the sect is VERY important), both her parents are pastures (yes the mother also) and yah know what, they are fighting to ORDAIN HOMOSEXUALS!! don't generalize religions like that.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think I have the right to generalize a religion when I have been living around christians (catholics on my Italian side, prodestants on my British side. And BTW, I have yet to spot a major difference in the two except for the whole "saved by works/saved by faith" thing. They both believe in the same moral code and both believe that in te enforcement of it) all my life, and I hav yet to meet a single one who was in favor of homosexuality being legal. Some would even go so far as to say that homosexuals are worthy of death, as is suggested in Dueteronomy(I wonder if the guy who wrote that knew it would be used as a weapon of persecution for thousands of years).
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->4) Protastants, EOs, and Jews DO NOT BELIEVE IN CONVERSION. IF you ever go to a Jewish or Protestant supe kitchan or missonary site they will never speak of religion to you unless oyu ask them too.
They believe that these things are A) good for their souls and B) that by showing thier good morals others will want to folow suit<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I did not say that they were out to convert us, I said they were out to enforce the rules of christianity on us.
Revelations 20 tells of Satan's doom, though I don't know of anywhere it says that hell will be destroyed completely....
20:1 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain.
2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.
3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison
8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth--Gog and Magog--to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.
9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.
14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (woohoo for Quickverse)
OK, next...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->No, it can't be, everything works too perfectly to be a mistake.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's where you're wrong my freind. The universe is in constant chaos. There are only two constants in the universe. Everything else is subject to change. EVERYTHING. For crying out loud, we can't even know where anything even is. Does this seem like perfection? The fact that we exist is because of pure chance. It could have been that when the universe had been formed, it may have been formed in a way that the 3rd dimensions was squeezed to tighty on the p-brane or far to large for us to exist within it, makeing everything two dimensional, or it could have been that the fourth dimension had been the right size for us to exist within it, thus keeping any gravitational force from working correctly, but it didn't happen that way. Now, you may say, "isn't this proof that god created the universe, and kept all these situation from occuring?" But it isn't, because although these situations have occured in alterante universes(which do exist, mind you. This is proven.) Where was god when those were created? He wasn't there. Occam's razor triumphs again! I guess it pays to have read both of Hawking's books all the way through.
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/me whips out "The Universe in a Nutshell"
I wouldn't say proven, but yes, it's a definate possibility. However, maybe I'm jsut missing the point, but there's no discrediting evidence against God in there. You say that the universe is in constant chaos, I agree. However, (I trust you are a believer in evolution), there cannot be simple chance that evolves things from the first bacterium to ants. Lets talk about bacterial Flagella.
There are about 40 parts required for a bacterial flagellum to work. The theory behind evolution is that small changes result in different species being formed, and the better of those different species are selected to carry on to the next generation. You can never be perfectly fit, or you;d live forever, so the whole fitness progresses as a logrithmic equation, never hitting the asymptote. The problem with evolution comes when it claims that gradual changes resulted in anything, when if one of those 40 parts were removed, then the thing wouldn't work, and the organism would be selected against. All of them had to come into effect at once, something that works against the gradual changes specified by Darwin's theory.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1) 10 commandments in schools (can't be done if the community dosn't want it to, go bill of rights). Also that is only christianity, and only some sects of christianity (never ever generalize protestants, catholics, and EOs they are basicaly 3 seperate religions)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So, you're telling me that there has never, nor wil there ever, be talk of forcing all schools to put up the 10 commandments in schools by a large amount of christians? In this case, the talk is as good as the act.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think there is any dispute here. A lot of people want them in, a lot of peple don't, that's a fact. Personally, I'd rather it be more personal, and not imposed by law. I believe God shold be involved in your heart and mind, and ramming the bible down someone's throat isn't going to do anything. There's no harm in using it to fall back on in a time of need, or to use it to backup it's own argument, in fact, it's a very good book to use, because of it's solidity. Feel free to cite possible contradiction's, I'll do my best to defend it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2) slavery used on a religious basis? where?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So now you're telling me that slave owners(most of which in the US where southern christians) have never used a religious reason to rationalise slavery? And even if the Americans hadn't, the critish fueadal serf system(which was virtual slavery) was heavily enforced by the Catholic church.
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Sure, it's been misquoted, and misused through the ages, but the Bible tells slaves to be ambossidor's of God's forgiveness, through their circumstance. It's not a sin to become wealthy, but it is one to oppress and hurt other people:
Proverbs 14:31 He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->3) Outlawing f homosexuality, that is not only for religious reasons (many NO religious ppl are homophobic, and as a side note I am not). One of my best friends, she is protestant (can't remember what sect, oh and the sect is VERY important), both her parents are pastures (yes the mother also) and yah know what, they are fighting to ORDAIN HOMOSEXUALS!! don't generalize religions like that.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think I have the right to generalize a religion when I have been living around christians (catholics on my Italian side, prodestants on my British side. And BTW, I have yet to spot a major difference in the two except for the whole "saved by works/saved by faith" thing. They both believe in the same moral code and both believe that in te enforcement of it) all my life, and I hav yet to meet a single one who was in favor of homosexuality being legal. Some would even go so far as to say that homosexuals are worthy of death, as is suggested in Dueteronomy(I wonder if the guy who wrote that knew it would be used as a weapon of persecution for thousands of years).
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It says homosexuality is a sin. So is judging. I try to do neither. Do I approve of their way of life? No, but can I be held more holy then those people? I judge, I lie, I lust, and I hurt people with my words, I think there is more to person then their sexual preferance. And, if they're a believer, then what does it matter anyway? They're saved anyway!
As to your reference to 1984, I can see how unfair it sounds, either going to hell or going God's way, but you have to ask yourself, was it fair to God to die on the cross for you? For me? He diddn't do anything wrong, and now he's taking up the slack for you.
If you couldn't go to hell, then that would mean that God would be turning a blind eye to things we've all done. People that have a problem with a God that judges are saying that, quite frankly, the parent that brought me into this world has no right to not give me dessert. It's usually backed up with, "If God loves me, then how can he condemn me?"
God is loving. That's why he gave you the choice, and didn't condemn Adam when he sinned. He promised a messiah:
Genesis 3:14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, "Cursed are you above all the livestock and all the wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel."
Hmm, a decendant of Eve, destroying Satan? *cough*Christ*cough*
And, even though God kicked them out of the garden, he still provided for them by giving them clothes. That's love, right there. After someone stabs you in the back, you give them a gift and just plain love 'em up.
[me] gets off his soapbox, puts down his bible, and goes to sleep.[/me]
EDIT: AllYourHive: I'm not typing back at you because I hate you. I'm typing back at you because you're an intellegent person who has taken a stance that differs from mine. For standing your ground, not out of ignorance, but because of what you believe, you too have my respect. That's why I took the last 45 minutes typing up that post, and attempting to change your mind. [/edit]
Scenario.
A person lives 20 years of their live with the hope that there is an after-life and a savior. The person attends church frequently so that they can understand and hear more about scripture. The person makes lifelong decisions of what to do and what not to do based on their belief because they believe if Jesus could go through torture for them then they could live a life to please God.
Enter Person #2.
Person #2 treats what #1 believes in as a joke. He neither cares about religion because person #2 would rather do whatever he/she wanted to do because religion "drags you down, and isn't fun". Person #2 has never read scripture, knows nothing about it yet feels compelled to treat it like a joke.
This is why some people are touchy. But not for good reason. When we're angry were being hypocrites, (Legionnaried's Sig Here) We're supposed to forgive you before you even do anything wrong because your offense is laughable when held up against Jesus' sacrifice, who are we to get mad at others when we've been saved from eternal pain? We don't. I officially apologise for any person whose been turned off by a christian, and the reprecussions thereof. We're exactly like everyone else, we're just trying to be perfect although everytime we fail miserably.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This, in particular, was what I was talking about. The gist of these being "simply becuase I hold this idea 'sacred' means that you should not be able to discuss them in a negative light."
This(and the fact that the prodestant church is the tool of capitalism, but that's another story) is the main thing that ticks me off about christians. They say that, simply becuase the idea of god is "holy" they should be allowed to believe what they believe, and it should not be talked in of in the public arena. If I said that my views on Politics and Economics were so spacial that they should never be talked ill of, even if you don't believe in them, you would call me a crazy comunist, and I would promptly be laughed out anyplace I wen to discuss my beliefs on the subject, but, for some reason, we are allowed to say that of religion, and no one thinks anything of it.
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I don't understand your theory about the protestant church being a tool of capitalism, especially since church's are non-profit, your welcome to give me your theory, I wouldn't mind hearing it.
Example is above, its kind of in response to the quote.
Also, I have never thought myself as better than anyone else, most of the time I see myself as worse, most of the time I have no self-control and I can't even shut up because I'm angry, there's lots of junk in everybody's life that they wish they could just get rid of and it's like the world is crashing down on you and you just break down because theres nothing you can do about anything, you have no control, and life seems like theres no end and it only gets worse and worse. But I have to honestly say that I don't think I'd ever be ok unless there was any hope. Since I do believe the sacrifice I never have to worry about anything. Life is much easier because God will never give you more than you can handle (Believe it or not) Single incidents change one person's life, and that person changes more peoples lives, and on and on.
Sorry if I came off as corny, for some reason publically speaking about christianity is a faux pas. I hope no one thinks of me any differently now, but if they do, I hope its for the better.
[/RANT] I suppose.