<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you cant bhop backwards moron but you can jump backwards at a faster then normal rate end.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) Start bunnyhopping forwards 2) Reverse direction, still using the bunnyhop technique but backwards 3) Kill skulk that tried to ambush you, because he can't catch you fast enough.
It's possible to keep up a pretty damn high speed doing this, faster than a normal mrines running forwards, certainly.
Maybe you ought to check for yourself before calling people morons.
Hmm theres two sides to this lets break them down shall we?
pro-bhopping: point 1. It requires skill to do- ok fine 2. it doesnt give that much speed/doesnt change gameplay that much- Then whats the big deal? 3. Your just mad you cant do it- very silly arguement 4. But its in [insert other game/mod] that i play and everyone loves it there- this is not [insert other game/mod] 5. it speeds the pace of the game up and i like quick action- hmm most people do my friend and thats we have Phase gates.
Anti-bhopping: 1. Its a bug and not intended- True enough thats why it is getting removed. 2. Its cheap- another silly point....no reasons no real arguement here. 3. It changes balance in the game(all arguements about balance will go into this point)- This point is really tough to touch....being a bug(and unintended) is what pushes it slightly in this anti-bhoppers favor. 4. It looks silly- an onos LOOKS silly does that mean we should remove it?
Ok so I probably missed some points but im not going to go fishing through 13 pages to dig them all up. I think i gathered the main points of both sides. I myself hold the opinion that it doesnt really add anything to the game that is needed so the bug should be squished. The arguements about making the game slow are silly in my opinion because of phase gates and jetpacks which both give speed to marines and aliens are already fast runners with access to the vent system making trips shorter. So it takes skill to do...does that mean anything that requires skill to do is ok? that point is not enough to keep it in the game. Sure people are going to complain about the changes coming up in 1.04(if you havent played it yet) and 1.1 but they will also adapt to them. The game won't be any less fun because of the removal of one small thing...seriously do you play just to bhop? Alright I have probably babbled enough...
"I was merely saying with that example, and my argument, that you're going to have to do more than say "it gives you an advantage and was not intended" to say it's an exploit. In my opinion, you're going to have to establish one of the following:
1) The tactic is not counterable 2) The tactic unfavorably changes gameplay
Also, things like crashing the server or lagging everyone out isn't really an exploit, it's just being stupid and malicious.
In the duping case, #2 applies, because instead of looking for items, you just dupe, and it gives you a huge advantage for something you don't work for. If you modify bunnyhopping in the way I suggested earlier, then I don't think bunnyhopping meets any of these criteria.
For fun, lets look at some examples of exploits. The bug where an alien can turn into a marine gives you a huge advantage, is not counterable by the marines, and hurts teamplay. That is why the bug is an exploit, and not because it wasn't intended by the developer. Also, the resource donation thing. It's not an exploit because "if flay wanted aliens to donate resources he would have make a resource donation option in the menu", it's an exploit because it gives the aliens an uncounterable advantage ( faster hives and resource towers ), and skews gameplay too much to remedy simply. Another, getting extra mines from the armory. Having an infinite amount of mines screws up gameplay, and the aliens can't have an infinite amount of webs early in the game."
I think people trying to make arguments by putting 'exploit' in bold letters when referring to bhop can stop. Very well put, engy.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->bunnyhopping should not be in ns. If you really feel the need to do elite jumping go play q2, no other game does it better.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sweet jesus, I wish people would stop making this retarded argument. Behold, the exact same argument can be used against you!
If you want to play a game without bunnyhopping go play CS, no other game screws jumping over more.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->4. But its in [insert other game/mod] that i play and everyone loves it there- this is not [insert other game/mod]<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I call shennanigans.
If NS was ported to another engine, would bunnyhopping be ported with it? No. It is not an integral element of what NS is. BH is a side effect of using such an old engine. While Quake Arena would retain rocketjumping no matter where it was ported as a prereq, TFC would not retain BH on let's say the Unreal engine which is why I was so surprised to hear that it was codified as a TFC "skill" years back when it was clearly an attempt to placate the masses keeping TFC as the #1 mod...until CS beta
hate to put in another post here, but B-hopping backwards *IS* possible, and I've seen it happen (couldn't catch a marine b-hopping backwards--till he hit the wall behind him, heheheh), and I've performed this trick unintentionally (panicked when a skulk came outta nowhere). I say it should go, but I don't care if it stays. I know how it works, and can use the "not an exploit" as well as the next bloke.
But if you think its legit because it's not exclusively "uncoded," then I say the alien-morph to marine bug is legit (in <=1.03) because they haven't "uncoded" it yet. Thank the gods for 1.04, whenever that comes out.
--sidenote: B-hopping is GREAT for getting around maps, once you have them memorized.
Everything that can possibly be said on the matter has been said, and was probably said before you ever started playing first person shooters.
The bunnyhopping argument will be laid to rest the day a paper dog successfully chases an asbestos cat through hell.
Everyone wants to share their personal thoughts on the matter. I won't. I'll share my thoughts on the idiocy of sharing your personal thoughts, though. And there you have it.
<!--QuoteBegin--kaxman+Jan 20 2003, 07:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kaxman @ Jan 20 2003, 07:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The bunnyhopping argument will be laid to rest the day a paper dog successfully chases an asbestos cat through hell.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It'll stop when the patch comes out. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Until then, I suppose this is the thread to spam if you want a higher post count. Or they could just lock it.
The paradox present in posting on this thread to persuade people to let it die which would by itself proprogate the thread has really had me confused.
Anyway, look at page 2 of this thread. No, further down. Oh, look a post by Flayra. Read it ? good.
Forum mods, can this thread please, please be locked ? If it isn't i'm gonna start a poll/petition to get it locked <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
For me the last word is this - (EDIT: and it is NOT to debate about Bunnying. That is not what I am saying, so if you are looking for the same crap as the rest of this thread this isn't the right post): I like BH, am a big supporter. Its removal put me off HLDM till it was found how to get it back, and eventually made me quit CS.
But read on anyway, I am not going to say what you think I am.
Flayra's mod - if he says it isn't part of the game as he sees it, then he will have it removed, and that is that.
My issue won't be that, it never was or will be with another man's vision for his own project.
My concern lies soley and singly with the following: HOW it is done.
The reason that CS was ultimately ruined for me, apart from a great number of small factors, was NOT just that BH was removed. CS was a game that NEEDED it removed. HLDM did not, there it was and remains an intergral part of strategy and play. CS was a realism mod, so it was counter-thematic. But more, CS was designed around times and quick placement of people. BH unbalanced most maps, screwed around with the way the whole game worked. It had to go.
SO why was I upset?
Because the manner in which it was done ended up doing much more than killing the rabbit - it collapsed the entire hill the rabbit was in. The movement of CS became stilted, influent, and uncomfortable to play. It cancelled the feeling of immersion in the game (so crucial to theme muliplayer mods that aren't simple DM style - ie CS and NS), as one constantly slapped against the 'wall' of the jump nerf that reminded you that you were just playing a silly mod.
It turned out to be the final straw for someone who had stuck with the mod through almost 15 public release versions.
NS is not a realism mod, but neither is it DM - but it does have elements of both.
Please, in the name of all that is holy, if BH has to go, fine, but do it WELL. Don't make it uncomfortable or impossible to jump over a railing or over a small obstacle, dont do what DoD did (shudder), don't reduce jump height or add diminishing returns or ruin the physics or anything else dumb. I am not sure what the best approach is, but 90% of the ways it has been done are excellent examples of how NOT to do it.
I would normally have faith, but it seems the Demon Rabbit has made other mod and game developers otherwise genius depart them and mar their own works.
If you haven't noticed, this thread is no longer about wether hopping is/isnt going to be removed in the patch. Let them debate what they want to debate, if they're not posting in here they'll just be starting some other thread entitled "Why the ability to drop health is an exploit and should be removed - fo real!"
i got to around page 7 before the thread started to repeat itself and some posters accused others of not knowing what bunnyhopping was even though they stated that bh was wrong but that they didnt mind the other combat jumping
but that is beside the thing that i would like to add
this is geared towards the argument that ns will become a terrible game if movement speed is decreased and you spend most of your time hiking around the level. actually i have no problems with gameplay beeing slower either marine-only or both teams as i think rushing detracts greatly from the general creepy feeling that NS has granted this is true only on a populated server were you seldom are totaly alone
one of the greater enjoyments i get out of ns is something like: moving in a squad of marines and suddenly you hear that skulk chomp sound and death messages start to roll upp on the right side of the screen as you spin around and try to fire at the skulk/s at the same time franticly moving backwards to avoid them only to get slashed from behind by a fade
simmilar feeling emerge when i manage to ambush a squad of marines and killing some or all of them
i actually like the creeping around stuff, i liked sniping in delta force1 dm on the snowy level, i greatly enjoy countersniping in DoD. i enjoy the paranoid feeling when i run around the levels in ns
the impatience that most players today display i cant identify with i dont enjoy loosing but its not the worst thing that can happen. imo the worst thing is either a phase push or a skulk rush that ends the game in the first minutes. (i take that back the worst thing is spawnkill-farming and i think everbody who does that deserves that "mouse-arm" that they hopefully will get in the future)
fast rush rounds are in my mind the most boring thing of all and if bunnyhopping helps this in some way i dont want it in.
if a stamina bar should be implemented aside from bh-fix it should be class based and have fade, marine, skulk and all the rest loose a different amount of stamina from jumping skulks and lerks beeing smaller and lighter should be able to jump more often fade, gorge and marines should be able to jump a couple of times within a set amount of time onos should then imo not be able to jump very often as it is to big to realisticly be abale to
as for if i want realism i should go play cs? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> the weapons are realistic somewhat yes(the accuracy of the ak-47 however is a abomination and very unrealistic), the recoil in cs is so unrealistic its not even remotly accurate to real firearms. dods recoil is more realistic and i prefer that as each shots recoil is calculated from the last fired one instead of independetly ala?CS
i realise that gameplay has to come before realism in games but not on the expense of atmosphere wich is way more imposrtant then realism
as more then one reply in this thread has been been the product of impatience i really dont see how this would reach their ears but heres is a little tip on debating: read the whole post, yes the whole post and see if the author doesnt in some way explain his wiew that you at first found so incredibly stupid. it is a common rethorical grip to argue against ones flaws in the initial statement later on. and if you post something like: you are really stupid because: ........ and if the author of that post already covered that in his post it makes you look very silly indeed.
i realise that this last paragraph is probably lost on thoose who need it as they havet the patience to read my post all the way through anyway
and: yes, english is a second language to me so bear with any spelling or gramatical errors edit: found a gramtical one myself
I haven't kept up with this thread, but to re-iterate:
<b>Most players won't even notice that bunny-hopping is gone. There will be no stamina bar, no slowdown after you jump, and nothing to make the physics feel awkward and unresponsive. The only change is capping the player velocity and making sure footstep sounds are always played.</b>
<!--QuoteBegin--RandomEngy+Jan 20 2003, 09:51 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RandomEngy @ Jan 20 2003, 09:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->bunnyhopping should not be in ns. If you really feel the need to do elite jumping go play q2, no other game does it better.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sweet jesus, I wish people would stop making this retarded argument. Behold, the exact same argument can be used against you!
If you want to play a game without bunnyhopping go play CS, no other game screws jumping over more.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> flame me will you? if i wanted retarded jumping id go round your house... and behold you have NO argument, if you want to travel accross the map in .3 seconds i suggest you play a dm game sucker fool.
Anyone who thinks that Bhopping should stay in the game is a complete noob, but not only a noob, a skilless player who must rely on a game exploit to try dodging the Skulk bites. Have you even played as a skulk Bhoppers? It should be removed nonetheless. And what skill are you talking about? pressing the jump button? wow... major skillz there lamers...
Opsie. Please delete this post... (IM NOT READING 14 PAGES OF CRAP!!)
<!--QuoteBegin--TheRandomSin+Jan 21 2003, 09:05 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheRandomSin @ Jan 21 2003, 09:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyone who thinks that Bhopping should stay in the game is a complete noob, but not only a noob, a skilless player who must rely on a game exploit to try dodging the Skulk bites. Have you even played as a skulk Bhoppers? It should be removed nonetheless. And what skill are you talking about? pressing the jump button? wow... major skillz there lamers...
Opsie. Please delete this post... (IM NOT READING 14 PAGES OF CRAP!!)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Um explain why hitting the space bar REPEATEDLY or designing a script to have the effect of hitting the space bar REPEATEDLY is a skill. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And just as i was praising the joys of good debate, they sent in the clowns. Thankyou for your informed and mature posts children, you've really raised the tone of the forum.
- Acclaimed distributer of bunnyhop-assisted skulk bites to the TSA since 1885.
My view on this bunnyhopping debate is one of "I don't give a (Insert Creative word here)"
And while NS isn't exactly striving for Realism there is a sense of it. I mean the TSA would feed their marines a mixture of steroids, speed and perhaps a little crack if they wanted their marines to leap and bound their way around some spacestation at a speed that rivals an aircraft.
If you think that bunnyhopping in ns is unrealistic, then try having an angry pit bull run at you and try to bite you for a while...See if you don't want to jump to get out of the way. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> A skulk isn't much different.
I think that for a marine, hopping is a defensive mobility tactic. And if changed in the next patch, they should at least implement a combat roll (all 4 directions as there are such tight quarters) so a guy can try to evade those pesky skulks.
<!--QuoteBegin--Shang-Chi+Feb 21 2003, 01:43 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Shang-Chi @ Feb 21 2003, 01:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you think that bunnyhopping in ns is unrealistic, then try having an angry pit bull run at you and try to bite you for a while...See if you don't want to jump to get out of the way. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> A skulk isn't much different.
I think that for a marine, hopping is a defensive mobility tactic. And if changed in the next patch, they should at least implement a combat roll (all 4 directions as there are such tight quarters) so a guy can try to evade those pesky skulks.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ok, But do you really think that while jumping around like that you could accurately shoot said pitbull? If was only a "defensive mobility tatic" then you should suffer some accuracy penalty. This is a dead topic don't drag it out to restart the foolish flaming. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
This means it will not affect gameplay if u don't BH.
I like this as it is the sensible thing to do.
Oh, and also, I can and do BH, but I only do it to move around lvls, yet I still think it should be out of NS.
Other than that, go play some other mod if u dont like the fact that BH will be gone, cos it will be no great loss im sure.
but you can jump backwards at a faster then normal rate
end.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) Start bunnyhopping forwards
2) Reverse direction, still using the bunnyhop technique but backwards
3) Kill skulk that tried to ambush you, because he can't catch you fast enough.
It's possible to keep up a pretty damn high speed doing this, faster than a normal mrines running forwards, certainly.
Maybe you ought to check for yourself before calling people morons.
pro-bhopping:
point 1. It requires skill to do- ok fine
2. it doesnt give that much speed/doesnt change gameplay that much- Then whats the big deal?
3. Your just mad you cant do it- very silly arguement
4. But its in [insert other game/mod] that i play and everyone loves it there- this is not [insert other game/mod]
5. it speeds the pace of the game up and i like quick action- hmm most people do my friend and thats we have Phase gates.
Anti-bhopping:
1. Its a bug and not intended- True enough thats why it is getting removed.
2. Its cheap- another silly point....no reasons no real arguement here.
3. It changes balance in the game(all arguements about balance will go into this point)- This point is really tough to touch....being a bug(and unintended) is what pushes it slightly in this anti-bhoppers favor.
4. It looks silly- an onos LOOKS silly does that mean we should remove it?
Ok so I probably missed some points but im not going to go fishing through 13 pages to dig them all up. I think i gathered the main points of both sides. I myself hold the opinion that it doesnt really add anything to the game that is needed so the bug should be squished. The arguements about making the game slow are silly in my opinion because of phase gates and jetpacks which both give speed to marines and aliens are already fast runners with access to the vent system making trips shorter. So it takes skill to do...does that mean anything that requires skill to do is ok? that point is not enough to keep it in the game. Sure people are going to complain about the changes coming up in 1.04(if you havent played it yet) and 1.1 but they will also adapt to them. The game won't be any less fun because of the removal of one small thing...seriously do you play just to bhop? Alright I have probably babbled enough...
1) The tactic is not counterable
2) The tactic unfavorably changes gameplay
Also, things like crashing the server or lagging everyone out isn't really an exploit, it's just being stupid and malicious.
In the duping case, #2 applies, because instead of looking for items, you just dupe, and it gives you a huge advantage for something you don't work for. If you modify bunnyhopping in the way I suggested earlier, then I don't think bunnyhopping meets any of these criteria.
For fun, lets look at some examples of exploits. The bug where an alien can turn into a marine gives you a huge advantage, is not counterable by the marines, and hurts teamplay. That is why the bug is an exploit, and not because it wasn't intended by the developer. Also, the resource donation thing. It's not an exploit because "if flay wanted aliens to donate resources he would have make a resource donation option in the menu", it's an exploit because it gives the aliens an uncounterable advantage ( faster hives and resource towers ), and skews gameplay too much to remedy simply. Another, getting extra mines from the armory. Having an infinite amount of mines screws up gameplay, and the aliens can't have an infinite amount of webs early in the game."
I think people trying to make arguments by putting 'exploit' in bold letters when referring to bhop can stop. Very well put, engy.
Sweet jesus, I wish people would stop making this retarded argument. Behold, the exact same argument can be used against you!
If you want to play a game without bunnyhopping go play CS, no other game screws jumping over more.
I call shennanigans.
If NS was ported to another engine, would bunnyhopping be ported with it? No. It is not an integral element of what NS is. BH is a side effect of using such an old engine. While Quake Arena would retain rocketjumping no matter where it was ported as a prereq, TFC would not retain BH on let's say the Unreal engine which is why I was so surprised to hear that it was codified as a TFC "skill" years back when it was clearly an attempt to placate the masses keeping TFC as the #1 mod...until CS beta
Marine backpedal speed was put in for balance reasons.
To bhop backwards faster than the skulk is an exploit plain and simple.
If you are afraid of something(i.e. Becoming lunch)... I generally think you'd turn around and run.
But all of this thread is useless as Flayra will have the last word.
But if you think its legit because it's not exclusively "uncoded," then I say the alien-morph to marine bug is legit (in <=1.03) because they haven't "uncoded" it yet. Thank the gods for 1.04, whenever that comes out.
--sidenote: B-hopping is GREAT for getting around maps, once you have them memorized.
Everything that can possibly be said on the matter has been said, and was probably said before you ever started playing first person shooters.
The bunnyhopping argument will be laid to rest the day a paper dog successfully chases an asbestos cat through hell.
Everyone wants to share their personal thoughts on the matter. I won't. I'll share my thoughts on the idiocy of sharing your personal thoughts, though. And there you have it.
It'll stop when the patch comes out. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Until then, I suppose this is the thread to spam if you want a higher post count.
Or they could just lock it.
The paradox present in posting on this thread to persuade people to let it die which would by itself proprogate the thread has really had me confused.
Anyway, look at page 2 of this thread. No, further down. Oh, look a post by Flayra. Read it ? good.
Forum mods, can this thread please, please be locked ? If it isn't i'm gonna start a poll/petition to get it locked <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I like BH, am a big supporter. Its removal put me off HLDM till it was found how to get it back, and eventually made me quit CS.
But read on anyway, I am not going to say what you think I am.
Flayra's mod - if he says it isn't part of the game as he sees it, then he will have it removed, and that is that.
My issue won't be that, it never was or will be with another man's vision for his own project.
My concern lies soley and singly with the following: HOW it is done.
The reason that CS was ultimately ruined for me, apart from a great number of small factors, was NOT just that BH was removed. CS was a game that NEEDED it removed. HLDM did not, there it was and remains an intergral part of strategy and play. CS was a realism mod, so it was counter-thematic. But more, CS was designed around times and quick placement of people. BH unbalanced most maps, screwed around with the way the whole game worked. It had to go.
SO why was I upset?
Because the manner in which it was done ended up doing much more than killing the rabbit - it collapsed the entire hill the rabbit was in. The movement of CS became stilted, influent, and uncomfortable to play. It cancelled the feeling of immersion in the game (so crucial to theme muliplayer mods that aren't simple DM style - ie CS and NS), as one constantly slapped against the 'wall' of the jump nerf that reminded you that you were just playing a silly mod.
It turned out to be the final straw for someone who had stuck with the mod through almost 15 public release versions.
NS is not a realism mod, but neither is it DM - but it does have elements of both.
Please, in the name of all that is holy, if BH has to go, fine, but do it WELL. Don't make it uncomfortable or impossible to jump over a railing or over a small obstacle, dont do what DoD did (shudder), don't reduce jump height or add diminishing returns or ruin the physics or anything else dumb. I am not sure what the best approach is, but 90% of the ways it has been done are excellent examples of how NOT to do it.
I would normally have faith, but it seems the Demon Rabbit has made other mod and game developers otherwise genius depart them and mar their own works.
but that is beside the thing that i would like to add
this is geared towards the argument that ns will become a terrible game if movement speed is decreased and you spend most of your time hiking around the level.
actually i have no problems with gameplay beeing slower either marine-only or both teams as i think rushing detracts greatly from the general creepy feeling that NS has
granted this is true only on a populated server were you seldom are totaly alone
one of the greater enjoyments i get out of ns is something like: moving in a squad of marines and suddenly you hear that skulk chomp sound and death messages start to roll upp on the right side of the screen as you spin around and try to fire at the skulk/s at the same time franticly moving backwards to avoid them only to get slashed from behind by a fade
simmilar feeling emerge when i manage to ambush a squad of marines and killing some or all of them
i actually like the creeping around stuff, i liked sniping in delta force1 dm on the snowy level, i greatly enjoy countersniping in DoD. i enjoy the paranoid feeling when i run around the levels in ns
the impatience that most players today display i cant identify with
i dont enjoy loosing but its not the worst thing that can happen. imo the worst thing is either a phase push or a skulk rush that ends the game in the first minutes. (i take that back the worst thing is spawnkill-farming and i think everbody who does that deserves that "mouse-arm" that they hopefully will get in the future)
fast rush rounds are in my mind the most boring thing of all and if bunnyhopping helps this in some way i dont want it in.
if a stamina bar should be implemented aside from bh-fix it should be class based and have fade, marine, skulk and all the rest loose a different amount of stamina from jumping
skulks and lerks beeing smaller and lighter should be able to jump more often
fade, gorge and marines should be able to jump a couple of times within a set amount of time
onos should then imo not be able to jump very often as it is to big to realisticly be abale to
as for if i want realism i should go play cs? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> the weapons are realistic somewhat yes(the accuracy of the ak-47 however is a abomination and very unrealistic), the recoil in cs is so unrealistic its not even remotly accurate to real firearms. dods recoil is more realistic and i prefer that as each shots recoil is calculated from the last fired one instead of independetly ala?CS
i realise that gameplay has to come before realism in games but not on the expense of atmosphere wich is way more imposrtant then realism
as more then one reply in this thread has been been the product of impatience i really dont see how this would reach their ears but heres is a little tip on debating: read the whole post, yes the whole post and see if the author doesnt in some way explain his wiew that you at first found so incredibly stupid.
it is a common rethorical grip to argue against ones flaws in the initial statement later on.
and if you post something like: you are really stupid because: ........ and if the author of that post already covered that in his post it makes you look very silly indeed.
i realise that this last paragraph is probably lost on thoose who need it as they havet the patience to read my post all the way through anyway
and: yes, english is a second language to me so bear with any spelling or gramatical errors
edit: found a gramtical one myself
<b>Most players won't even notice that bunny-hopping is gone. There will be no stamina bar, no slowdown after you jump, and nothing to make the physics feel awkward and unresponsive. The only change is capping the player velocity and making sure footstep sounds are always played.</b>
Sweet jesus, I wish people would stop making this retarded argument. Behold, the exact same argument can be used against you!
If you want to play a game without bunnyhopping go play CS, no other game screws jumping over more.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
flame me will you? if i wanted retarded jumping id go round your house...
and behold you have NO argument, if you want to travel accross the map in .3 seconds i suggest you play a dm game sucker fool.
<b>DO NOT POST IMAGES FROM PASSWORD-PROTECTED SITES.</b>
Opsie. Please delete this post... (IM NOT READING 14 PAGES OF CRAP!!)
<!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Its like saying "Hitting the mouse 1 button repeatedly to burst fire is a skill".Yea right.
Opsie. Please delete this post... (IM NOT READING 14 PAGES OF CRAP!!)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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Um explain why hitting the space bar REPEATEDLY or designing a script to have the effect of hitting the space bar REPEATEDLY is a skill.
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And just as i was praising the joys of good debate, they sent in the clowns. Thankyou for your informed and mature posts children, you've really raised the tone of the forum.
- Acclaimed distributer of bunnyhop-assisted skulk bites to the TSA since 1885.
Will that include HA marines stompin about? :/
And while NS isn't exactly striving for Realism there is a sense of it. I mean the TSA would feed their marines a mixture of steroids, speed and perhaps a little crack if they wanted their marines to leap and bound their way around some spacestation at a speed that rivals an aircraft.
If you can do it fine, just do it somewhere else.
It doesn't belong in NS.
I think that for a marine, hopping is a defensive mobility tactic. And if changed in the next patch, they should at least implement a combat roll (all 4 directions as there are such tight quarters) so a guy can try to evade those pesky skulks.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think that for a marine, hopping is a defensive mobility tactic. And if changed in the next patch, they should at least implement a combat roll (all 4 directions as there are such tight quarters) so a guy can try to evade those pesky skulks.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, But do you really think that while jumping around like that you could accurately shoot said pitbull? If was only a "defensive mobility tatic" then you should suffer some accuracy penalty. This is a dead topic don't drag it out to restart the foolish flaming. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->