<!--QuoteBegin--Iden+Dec 14 2002, 12:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Iden @ Dec 14 2002, 12:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Right, so by your arguing if enough of the players of the mod both argue for instant 'press a button and win the round buttons' for when the match very first starts then they should include it? Now maybe that's a little extreme, but you're building up the fact that you think it's the players who should now have complete control of the finished product and not the developers who slaved away on it. If the players don't like it, they'll leave. If everyone hates it? They'll all leave. And the dev team learns something. If they make another game they won't make one like this. However allowing the WHINNY BITCHY PLAYERS to decide how the game balance works is probably, in my humble opinion, probably the dumbest idea ever.
Right, I can tell you're a game designer and have thought this through already. Please don't submit anymore posts until you think it through. Thank you.
It's used to balance the weapons. Teeth and Flash are there so you don't completely OWN as a starting soldier/alien.
Think of it as motivation for you to do your job as a soldier/alien so you can get out of your starting position.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is trying to be a very realistic mod. Teeth and muzzle flashes are out of place.
I'm done. This thread has probably gotten the attension of the makers, so hopefully they will do one of the three things I suggested. No I won't type them out again.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is trying to be a very realistic mod. Teeth and muzzle flashes are out of place.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Funny, I didn't find anything about it trying to be very realistic on the website, and you would think a mod with realism in mind would have different hitboxes, or nightvision, such as they have in real life, so they can see in those dark places.
Or, maybe, the designers made the game look the way they damn well want it to look, and decided gameplay WAS more important than realism. The muzzle flash doesn't stop skulks from being totally owned if a decent marine sees them coming down a hall, the skulks teeth don't stop me from biting down 3 or 4 marines when I drop off the ceiling in their midst.
It's not a big deal, it's fine the way it is, learn to play with it. It's part of the atmosphere, like dark levels.
In the end its the devs call, I personally would rather they allowed me to aim the weapon and made the weapon weaker.
But its still their call. Regarding resolution they have at least realized its a balance issue, unlike CS the flash size scales up with rez.
Problem I find is that it makes aiming at range damn hard for the marines, it basically means that leaping around like some kind of idiot and shooting the **** out of the floor next to your feet is often better than acctually sitting still and aiming.
This just looks stupid to me.
How about giving the marines lesser muzzle flash, and an accuracy that changes depending on your position (like in Fire-Arms), so crouch is more accurate than standing and jumping makes your accuracy all go to hell.. Recoil would be nice aswell <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> I'd much rather that aiming required skill than aiming required ability to see stuff through a strobe then fire at it hoping it don't move.
add another to the cause of toning down marines muzzle flash (thats me). Also the skulk bite too, might as well balance it out and make both playing fields fair.
I created a new thread for both these causes, go check it out "Effort For Changing Muzzle Flash And Skulk Teeth"
Whether a certain modification is "considered cheating" or not is completely pointless if said modification cannot be detected by the server.
The muzzle flash is a sprite, not a model.
Therefore the relevant questions are:
1) Is it possible to enforce sprite consistency in 1.03? 2) If not, is it theoretically possible to enforce sprite consistency in the future?
However, it is not relevant whether enforcing sprite consistency is a good idea; the developers have proven that they will lock what they can lock, and the awareness boost of muzzle flash removal equals the Skulk teeth removal.
What the fark are you people going on about? Flash suppressors do NOT reduce mussel flash in any way, they (as someone else has already stated) REDIRECT it away from the sights. And because you are not looking through iron sights in NS, the flash is going to seem even bigger. Let's look at the M-16A2's suppressor, three slits on each side for the "flash" to go to. So what happens is you get a very "small" flash coming out of the barrel and two large triangles of fire coming out of the left and right side of the gun. Now if your looking at it from an off center angle like in most FPS games, its going to seem awful big in game. This exact same thing happened in the Firearms mod with the M-16, and I don’t remember if they changed it or not. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Oh, and for the record I think the NS team has done a good job explaining everything in the game and making it seem plausible. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> I'm sure they'll come up with something for this.
<!--QuoteBegin--Tryon+Dec 14 2002, 03:18 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tryon @ Dec 14 2002, 03:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--coil+Dec 14 2002, 02:42 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coil @ Dec 14 2002, 02:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ever seen a flash suppressor on a fully automatic machinegun? It doesn't work; the buildup of energy/pressure/heat is too great. That energy has to vent somewhere.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I've seen a flash suppressor on a fully automatic rifle. Not in just a game either, military basic training, M-16, fully auto. You know what? You're right, there is flash on the rifle. <b>HOWEVER</b>, the suppressor has <b>specifically</b> been designed so that it doesn’t interfere with the soldiers ability to see/aim at his intended target (I wont even go into how the flash on a M-16 is nothing in comparison to the flash in the game). The flash that is seen in the game is COMPLETELY out of place for a nano-technology society where equipment can (and is) “teleported” when/where it’s needed.
<i>Any</i> society that is more technologically advanced than we are should have weapons that are better than the ones we used close to 30 years ago…<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> do you have any idea of nasty they would have to make Khaara's think about it or are you just one of those Pro mariners "bah I died im supposed to take on 30 skulks without hazzle" <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ...
<!--QuoteBegin--smokey_green+Dec 14 2002, 07:33 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (smokey_green @ Dec 14 2002, 07:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its not hard to totally get rid of the flash (which, I have already done)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> cheat
Yep, you should arm those pro-mariners with a slingshot and a pocketfull of bazooka joe bubble gum. As far as the flash goes, I DONT CARE! period. Its a game, im having fun.
If it really bothers you, ask the dev team to change the color of the flash so they can say its a new type of energy bullet thats so powerfull it has to vent.
Now if we use those guns, how are the kharaa not dying, you'll ask? Simple, normal bullets dont even scratch a skulk and it takes those special energy bullets to hurt them as a normal machinegun would do on a dog.
There you have your solution, now for christ sake try learning how to play instead of whinning on such issues so you dont make total fools of yourselves if we ever meet.
I can't think of a movie or game where a futuristic slug-based weapon didn't have muzzle fire.
Starship Troopers? Nope, the Morita had it.
Aliens? The pulse rifle had it.
Soldier? The same.
Maybe you know of one where this rule doesn't apply.. but it's not the majority. The only time you'll not get muzzle flash is if you use something like magnetic propulsion.. or anything that doesn't involve an explosion throwing a bullet down a tube and at your enemy. Yeah yeah, NS has nanotechnology and should have railguns, but it doesn't.
Aaronvroom vroom der party startahJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7020Members
<!--QuoteBegin--smokey_green+Dec 14 2002, 01:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (smokey_green @ Dec 14 2002, 01:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well, look at it this way.
THE PLAYERS make or break the mod. You do what the public demands, and from reading every submision, its apparent to me i'm not the only one that the muzzle flash is unacceptable. Never in any game has there been such a flash that obsures your view, and there are FREAKING TELEPORTERS in this game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And look at it this way:
The developers have created this mod with their own time and effort for no money, and given it away free. It is a pretty damn good mod. I think it's the best Half-Life mod out there currently. I certainly don't think they need everybody **obscenity** all over their hard work, and I <i>think</i> we can afford them some respect and patience. They certainly are NOT obliged to "do what the public demands", although they seem reasonable and have so far been very accommodating to the known flaws, and also all the incessent whines and gripes.
In the end, if they don't do something you demand you can simply choose not to play. I'm sure they have heard the complaint a million times by now and wasting forum space won't help anything...let's just calmly wait and see if/what they do next release.
Ok...well I'm very much a newbie, but I have to say that the first thing I thought when I saw the skulks teeth and the aliens-esque muzzel flash was "wow, cool!". I think they both really add to the atmosphere of the game. I definitely haven't played enough to work out whether it's a balance issue though <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->.
Comments
Right, I can tell you're a game designer and have thought this through already. Please don't submit anymore posts until you think it through. Thank you.
It's used to balance the weapons. Teeth and Flash are there so you don't completely OWN as a starting soldier/alien.
Think of it as motivation for you to do your job as a soldier/alien so you can get out of your starting position.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is trying to be a very realistic mod. Teeth and muzzle flashes are out of place.
I'm done. This thread has probably gotten the attension of the makers, so hopefully they will do one of the three things I suggested. No I won't type them out again.
Funny, I didn't find anything about it trying to be very realistic on the website, and you would think a mod with realism in mind would have different hitboxes, or nightvision, such as they have in real life, so they can see in those dark places.
Or, maybe, the designers made the game look the way they damn well want it to look, and decided gameplay WAS more important than realism. The muzzle flash doesn't stop skulks from being totally owned if a decent marine sees them coming down a hall, the skulks teeth don't stop me from biting down 3 or 4 marines when I drop off the ceiling in their midst.
It's not a big deal, it's fine the way it is, learn to play with it. It's part of the atmosphere, like dark levels.
But its still their call. Regarding resolution they have at least realized its a balance issue, unlike CS the flash size scales up with rez.
Problem I find is that it makes aiming at range damn hard for the marines, it basically means that leaping around like some kind of idiot and shooting the **** out of the floor next to your feet is often better than acctually sitting still and aiming.
This just looks stupid to me.
How about giving the marines lesser muzzle flash, and an accuracy that changes depending on your position (like in Fire-Arms), so crouch is more accurate than standing and jumping makes your accuracy all go to hell.. Recoil would be nice aswell <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> I'd much rather that aiming required skill than aiming required ability to see stuff through a strobe then fire at it hoping it don't move.
BlueGhost
I created a new thread for both these causes, go check it out "Effort For Changing Muzzle Flash And Skulk Teeth"
The muzzle flash is a sprite, not a model.
Therefore the relevant questions are:
1) Is it possible to enforce sprite consistency in 1.03?
2) If not, is it theoretically possible to enforce sprite consistency in the future?
However, it is not relevant whether enforcing sprite consistency is a good idea; the developers have proven that they will lock what they can lock, and the awareness boost of muzzle flash removal equals the Skulk teeth removal.
Oh, and for the record I think the NS team has done a good job explaining everything in the game and making it seem plausible. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> I'm sure they'll come up with something for this.
I've seen a flash suppressor on a fully automatic rifle. Not in just a game either, military basic training, M-16, fully auto. You know what? You're right, there is flash on the rifle. <b>HOWEVER</b>, the suppressor has <b>specifically</b> been designed so that it doesn’t interfere with the soldiers ability to see/aim at his intended target (I wont even go into how the flash on a M-16 is nothing in comparison to the flash in the game). The flash that is seen in the game is COMPLETELY out of place for a nano-technology society where equipment can (and is) “teleported” when/where it’s needed.
<i>Any</i> society that is more technologically advanced than we are should have weapons that are better than the ones we used close to 30 years ago…<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
do you have any idea of nasty they would have to make Khaara's think about it or are you just one of those Pro mariners "bah I died im supposed to take on 30 skulks without hazzle" <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ...
cheat
If it really bothers you, ask the dev team to change the color of the flash so they can say its a new type of energy bullet thats so powerfull it has to vent.
Now if we use those guns, how are the kharaa not dying, you'll ask? Simple, normal bullets dont even scratch a skulk and it takes those special energy bullets to hurt them as a normal machinegun would do on a dog.
There you have your solution, now for christ sake try learning how to play instead of whinning on such issues so you dont make total fools of yourselves if we ever meet.
Jack Fenris. Out.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> + <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> + Hivesight (!)
Starship Troopers? Nope, the Morita had it.
Aliens? The pulse rifle had it.
Soldier? The same.
Maybe you know of one where this rule doesn't apply.. but it's not the majority. The only time you'll not get muzzle flash is if you use something like magnetic propulsion.. or anything that doesn't involve an explosion throwing a bullet down a tube and at your enemy. Yeah yeah, NS has nanotechnology and should have railguns, but it doesn't.
LIVE WITH IT! Close this thread!
<img src='http://membres.lycos.fr/fuzzynoodle/MsgBoardPics/ghey.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
THE PLAYERS make or break the mod. You do what the public demands, and from reading every submision, its apparent to me i'm not the only one that the muzzle flash is unacceptable. Never in any game has there been such a flash that obsures your view, and there are FREAKING TELEPORTERS in this game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And look at it this way:
The developers have created this mod with their own time and effort for no money, and given it away free. It is a pretty damn good mod. I think it's the best Half-Life mod out there currently. I certainly don't think they need everybody **obscenity** all over their hard work, and I <i>think</i> we can afford them some respect and patience. They certainly are NOT obliged to "do what the public demands", although they seem reasonable and have so far been very accommodating to the known flaws, and also all the incessent whines and gripes.
In the end, if they don't do something you demand you can simply choose not to play. I'm sure they have heard the complaint a million times by now and wasting forum space won't help anything...let's just calmly wait and see if/what they do next release.