Update 322 Live on Steam! - Natural Selection 2

SystemSystem Join Date: 2013-01-29 Member: 182599Members, Super Administrators, Reinforced - Diamond Posts: 395 vanilla
edited April 5 in NS2 General Discussion

imageUpdate 322 Live on Steam! - Natural Selection 2

Update 322 is now live on Steam! This update is primarily a maintenance patch. Over the last few months lots of new systems and features have been introduced to the...

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  • WasabiOneWasabiOne Co-Lead NS2 CDT Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104623Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 741 Advanced user
    bump, enjoy!
  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members Posts: 533 Advanced user
    Metabolize is no longer a switchable weapon. This means you cannot deliberately switch to it any longer, and can only use it via the MovementModifier key.

    FTFY. Whatever happened to the rookie confusion by the way?
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,782 admin
    Aeglos wrote: »
    Whatever happened to the rookie confusion by the way?

    Oh there's still plenty of that going around, unfortunately. ;)
    Vetinariskav2Nintendows
  • RadimaXRadimaX Join Date: 2013-02-05 Member: 182840Members Posts: 569 Advanced user
    edited April 5
    i thought gorges was gonna hatch easter eggs full of babblers but guess its to late now :)

    - well there is always a next year or of any crafty person wanna make a mod i think that a good way to start this off :) im only able to do mapping so no luck there guys <3 thx for sorting all the small issues & non-issues even!
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation Posts: 1,448 Advanced user
    edited April 5
    *snip* That was unnecessary. Find a more civil approach next time. -IH
    Post edited by IronHorse on
    mattji104
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation Posts: 1,448 Advanced user
    edited April 5
    Thanks for the great communication back in August 2016 when this was put on trello and made resoundingly clear by devs and players that it needs to be optional. @remi
    remi wrote: »
    This feature is currently not being worked on but if I ever have the time, I do intend to provide a "legacy" controls option.
    mattji104
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Posts: 8,157 admin
    edited April 5
    @Frozen
    That's disingenuous.
    What you're quoting is removal of weapon slots entirely - which is not what has occurred.
    It's not a weapon and it's why it's been bound on the movement modifier key all these years.

    That being said, it's already been mentioned that we're going to consider adding a toggle in the options for those that have gotten used to that implementation.

    Edit: We're looking to add an option to NS2+ so you will not have to wait for another patch.
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 190 Advanced user
    I'm still having trouble believing anyone actually switched abilities to metab and clicked and then switched back to swipe instead of just pressing shift.
    .trixX.
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 2,656 Advanced user
    Nintendows wrote: »
    I'm still having trouble believing anyone actually switched abilities to metab and clicked and then switched back to swipe instead of just pressing shift.

    Muscle memory is one hell of a drug.
  • KasharicKasharic Hull, England Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 521 Advanced user
    Nintendows wrote: »
    I'm still having trouble believing anyone actually switched abilities to metab and clicked and then switched back to swipe instead of just pressing shift.

    Many people that played NS1 had swapped to metabolize for 10 years, when ns2 had the option to continue with muscle memory or start doing something totally different for the exact same result, people didn't see the point in changing what they already knew... so here we are 15 years later.

    Other people use quick switch with all lifeforms, metabolize being one of the things they use it for.

    Some people use WASD to move, others use the arrow keys... some people use their space bar to jump, others use their mouse.

    Some people use view models, others disable them...

    People have different setups to suit their own needs, is it really so difficult for you to understand that some people may use the options you don't?
    Meph isn't an NSL admin anymore!

    #blameHefty
    NousWandererHandschuhThe_Welsh_Wizardjrgn
  • NominousNominous Baltimore, MD Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146518Members Posts: 320 Advanced user
    Nintendows wrote: »
    I'm still having trouble believing anyone actually switched abilities to metab and clicked and then switched back to swipe instead of just pressing shift.
    I main fade and I've been known to be skilled at it in pubs as long as I haven't consumed pizza-wine (hardly comparable to the competitive-level greats ofc). I've solely preferred this weapon switching playstyle using metab for the past 5 years or so. I haven't used Shift for metab since forever, but it's been so long that I've forgotten why. It's been a few months since I've played NS2 regularly, but I am absolutely certain in the back of my mind that weapon switching is superior to Shift-metab. I dismissed Shift-metab very early on.

    Regarding this, I read a feedback post last week by @d0ped0g that I just remembered. He explains this mechanic quite well:
    d0ped0g wrote: »
    If you're blinking around the map, especially if there's no marines around and no need to have swipe out, it's much easier just to switch slots and mouseclick. You can just hold it down and breeze around the map rather than tap, tap, tap, tap. It's annoying to have to do that. Especially with your pinky. This alone is reason enough to keep it, and is surely a very common thing that people do. (especially being that you can't simply hold shift)

    His post reminded me that after I switch to metab, I can simply hold LMB in order to trigger metab instantly and automatically as soon as it's off cooldown. Shift-metab is not instantaneous nor automatic unless it was changed these past few years to match our current playstyle. I say 'our' because every fade main (at least in pubs) would probably be used to manual weapon switching for metab.
    NousWanderer
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 653 Advanced user
    IronHorse wrote: »
    That being said, it's already been mentioned that we're going to consider adding a toggle in the options for those that have gotten used to that implementation.

    Edit: We're looking to add an option to NS2+ so you will not have to wait for another patch.

    Yea but you must agree that it is kind of a dick move to to remove metab from weapon slots before you add that option.
    Handschuh
  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 871 Advanced user
    I can see why metab with shift is annoying. I think it is very uncomfortable to continuously press shift with your pinky, which is why metab is on my thumb button on my mouse :tongue:
    return to zero
    skav2
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,489 Advanced user
    edited April 6
    IronHorse wrote: »
    That being said, it's already been mentioned that we're going to consider adding a toggle in the options for those that have gotten used to that implementation.

    Edit: We're looking to add an option to NS2+ so you will not have to wait for another patch.

    Yea but you must agree that it is kind of a dick move to to remove metab from weapon slots before you add that option.

    Is there any other way than the UWE way :trollface:



    By the way, I used to script my weapons and abilities to my mouse buttons per lifeform back in NS so they were a one click away from being accesses. Much smoother than keyboard keys and leaving you free from fiddling around with your WASD hand. For Gorge I scripted structures to specific keyboard keys bypassing the build menu.

    Customization never killed anyone, so script this bitch up UWE and everyone is happy :D

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" AdminModerator

    Existence Unknown

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly
    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue
    102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting | Play the Latest Version of Booster Z-Frame
    YouTube NS2 Playlists: Unusual Selection | NS2 Stuff | NS2PT | NS2 Tuts

    The_Welsh_Wizard
  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members Posts: 533 Advanced user
    BeigeAlert wrote: »
    Aeglos wrote: »
    Whatever happened to the rookie confusion by the way?

    Oh there's still plenty of that going around, unfortunately. ;)

    Right. Or more likely, any after the fact justification goes. Can't even keep it consistent.
    Nintendows wrote: »
    I'm still having trouble believing anyone actually switched abilities to metab and clicked and then switched back to swipe instead of just pressing shift.

    I have problems believing experienced commanders are beaconing by accident. Doesn't stop me from agreeing that the hotkey should be moved.
    RadimaX wrote: »
    i thought gorges was gonna hatch easter eggs full of babblers but guess its to late now :)

    I don't play gorge often but wasn't this in one of the prior patches?

  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,558 Advanced user
    Below is a request to change the observatory hotkey, and a developer response. This seems related to the metab change.
    ydy wrote: »
    Is there a reason beyond inertia not to change the beacon grid spot on the observatory from 5 (default key S) to 9 (default key X)? Using shift+WASD to pan it's only a matter of time before you miskey it. It'd better for a small and simple mistake like this not to have to hurt your team so bad.
    remi wrote: »
    Something was tried with beacon placement by the CDT. I don't remember what it was exactly, all I remember is that it ended up getting reverted due to community outcry.

    People don't like when the muscle memory they've developed requires reprogramming.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
    The_Welsh_WizardVetinari
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,489 Advanced user
    Ironic, that's ironic right?



    Right? :trollface:

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" AdminModerator

    Existence Unknown

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly
    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue
    102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting | Play the Latest Version of Booster Z-Frame
    YouTube NS2 Playlists: Unusual Selection | NS2 Stuff | NS2PT | NS2 Tuts

    The_Welsh_WizardVetinari
  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members Posts: 533 Advanced user
    Could have saved me the effort from copying and pasting my reply.
    Aeglos wrote: »
    remi wrote: »
    Something was tried with beacon placement by the CDT. I don't remember what it was exactly, all I remember is that it ended up getting reverted due to community outcry.

    People don't like when the muscle memory they've developed requires reprogramming.

    If you can't recall, maybe it was something different?

    I still don't see why such accidental beacons should be happening (seriously, click once to hotkey, click another time to research phase and you never touch it again unless you want to beacon), but this is the kind of low effort high pay off that should be pursued as per your roadmap. If I misclick 'S' due to habit, I can immediately click 'C' or whatever new key assigned to make up for it. However, if I hit 'S' and it beacons, that's it.

    This and that are not that comparable by the way. Its not like you are changing the basic menu options. Its more analogous to moving gorge buildings around than removing metabolise. Maybe if I were suggesting moving around the basic menu or removing the ability to use hotkey/mouse click selection, but I'm not.
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation Posts: 1,448 Advanced user
    Feedback was provided, received and confirmed in August 2016 no more than days after the addition to the trello. In a discussion with trello in the title no less
    mattji104
    The_Welsh_WizardIronHorse
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 2,656 Advanced user
    edited April 6
    Frozen wrote: »
    Feedback was provided, received and confirmed in August 2016 no more than days after the addition to the trello. In a discussion with trello in the title no less

    The developer in question doesn't even work for UWE anymore, a lot of proposed things were likely either changed, dropped, or forgotten about since they left. That confirmation being one of them.

    Though now it's an option in NS2+ so the players who needed it will now continue to be able to use it and new players won't accidentally stumble upon metabolize by mistake. Problem solved.
    FrozenKeats
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 653 Advanced user
    Frozen wrote: »
    Feedback was provided, received and confirmed in August 2016 no more than days after the addition to the trello. In a discussion with trello in the title no less

    The developer in question doesn't even work for UWE anymore, a lot of proposed things were likely either changed, dropped, or forgotten about since they left. That confirmation being one of them.

    Though now it's an option in NS2+ so the players who needed it will now continue to be able to use it and new players won't accidentally stumble upon metabolize by mistake. Problem solved.

    Feedback was also provided days before this change went live, so...
    Handschuh
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 2,656 Advanced user
    Frozen wrote: »
    Feedback was provided, received and confirmed in August 2016 no more than days after the addition to the trello. In a discussion with trello in the title no less

    The developer in question doesn't even work for UWE anymore, a lot of proposed things were likely either changed, dropped, or forgotten about since they left. That confirmation being one of them.

    Though now it's an option in NS2+ so the players who needed it will now continue to be able to use it and new players won't accidentally stumble upon metabolize by mistake. Problem solved.

    Feedback was also provided days before this change went live, so...

    That is why the NS2+ option was created sooner than later.
    FrozenIronHorse
  • jrgnjrgn Join Date: 2006-11-03 Member: 58289Members Posts: 117 Advanced user
    I hope this a not a new trend:removing stuff for patching! Though very efficient! ;)

  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation Posts: 1,448 Advanced user
    The NS2+ option is broken, clearly untested, or even tried in game. Every time you switch it goes back and forth between the current and previous weapon. Quickswitch also affected. So no, the feedback days before the change went live were not why it was made sooner than later @IeptBarakat
    mattji104
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,558 Advanced user
    That is why the NS2+ option was created sooner than later.
    That is great. I really think so. I personally support UWE's goals, even if I don't support their every decision. It sounds like UWE was suprised by the feedback though. Just yesterday I wasn't sure if they were going to actually put an option into NS2+. If I made this mistake, I am sure others did too.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
  • KeatsKeats United States Join Date: 2014-11-04 Member: 199413Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 154 Advanced user
    Frozen wrote: »
    Feedback was provided, received and confirmed in August 2016 no more than days after the addition to the trello. In a discussion with trello in the title no less

    The developer in question doesn't even work for UWE anymore, a lot of proposed things were likely either changed, dropped, or forgotten about since they left. That confirmation being one of them.
    How is this relevant? Remi leaving UWE doesn't change the availability of any of the information in that thread. It's all still right there, and UWE obviously saw it since they responded to it.

    IronHorse wrote: »
    That being said, it's already been mentioned that we're going to consider adding a toggle in the options for those that have gotten used to that implementation.

    Edit: We're looking to add an option to NS2+ so you will not have to wait for another patch.
    Nordic wrote: »
    That is why the NS2+ option was created sooner than later.
    That is great. I really think so. I personally support UWE's goals, even if I don't support their every decision. It sounds like UWE was suprised by the feedback though. Just yesterday I wasn't sure if they were going to actually put an option into NS2+. If I made this mistake, I am sure others did too.
    It seems that just yesterday they weren't sure either. What's more, the NS2+ option has some flaws, as described here https://github.com/sclark39/NS2Plus/issues/83 .
    PM sent.
  • LemonSodaLemonSoda Finland Join Date: 2014-12-13 Member: 200036Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 3 Fully active user
    Nice that people already commented on the fade metabolize change. It definitely does have a bigger impact than you would think. I don't even understand the thought behind it - how is it possible to mix up the attacks in the first place if you use meta via the MovementModifier key? BUT if you used it as a switchable weapon - WELL HAHA YOU DONT ANYMORE, LOL.
    d0ped0g
  • GhoulofGSG9GhoulofGSG9 Join Date: 2013-03-31 Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,803 admin
    edited April 7
    Frozen wrote: »
    The NS2+ option is broken, clearly untested, or even tried in game. Every time you switch it goes back and forth between the current and previous weapon. Quickswitch also affected. So no, the feedback days before the change went live were not why it was made sooner than later @IeptBarakat

    I started working on the ns2+ option 5 days ago but did run into technical issues while trying to resolve the issue you describe. Due to a lack of free time I haven't been able to resolve the issue that the prediction world is not aware of the client's ns2+ options and there is currently almost no way of propagating values from the client world into the prediction world.

    In the end I decided to push the half finished change and mention the issues in the changelog so players who rely on switching to metabolize using the weapons slots can still do so while i try to fix the issue in my free time over the weekend.
    Developer, Modder and Server Admin of Survival of the Fattest - Ingame Nick: Ghoul
  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Community Dev Team Posts: 4,177 Advanced user
    Crazy thought. If you revert the change, people can choose if they want to use the movement key or the weapon slot and it requires no options in NS2+!
    The_Welsh_Wizardd0ped0gHandschuhantou
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