Public 322 Playtest this Thursday!

IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Posts: 8,163 admin
Hey all,

We have a Public Playtest session scheduled for patch 322:

Thursday, March 29th 1300 PDT / 2200 CEST


All are welcome to join and test the build with us by playing a few rounds.
It's largely a bug fix patch that contains things like fixing being unable to recycle your gorge tunnel, some server performance improvements, Hydra LOS fixes, removing Metabolize from the weapon slot, queuing orders for unbuilt drifters and some other odds and ends. (You can always track what's being worked on here)

Join our Official Discord Server a few minutes before the listed time in order to organize with us and ask any question before we play games.
You'll need to swap to the BETA branch of NS2 for this test.
Once you've selected the branch, then just idle in our General Voice channel to coordinate with us joining the server.

We're looking for community feedback of any kind, as well as assessing the stability of the build/server.
It's also a good chance to get the "Kill a Dev" achievement if you haven't gotten one already, or just to chat with some devs after the games.
If you have any further questions, feel free to contact me in our discord.

Thanks and see you there! :smile:
QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
SupaFredLasSaffron_bakerIeptBarakatFrozenHandschuhd0ped0g
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Comments

  • d0ped0gd0ped0g Join Date: 2003-05-25 Member: 16679Members Posts: 781 Advanced user
    edited March 27
    Omfg don't remove metab from weapons slot. People who use it will have to relearn to fade. What is even the point of doing this.

    You can already queue drifter move orders while it is building. Are you expanding this to include other stuff like enzyme and patrol?
    .trixX.NintendowsValo
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members Posts: 647 Advanced user
    Hopefully while metab is removed from weapon slot it will still function the same (press shift to use)

    So the only thing removed will be how you can accidentally switch from swipe to meta. Which is a good thing imo...
    Frozen.trixX.twiliteblue
  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 3,499 mod
    edited March 28
    d0ped0g wrote: »
    Omfg don't remove metab from weapons slot. People who use it will have to relearn to fade. What is even the point of doing this.

    How could you even trigger metabolize without it being a weapon? Would it be moved to sprint or crouch?

    [edit] never mind someone on discord explained the basics of fading to me :)

    Post edited by Mouse on
    -/AUS/- PS_Mouse
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation Posts: 1,450 Advanced user
    @IronHorse Wait why are you removing metabolize from the weapon slot???? I use that for map movement..

    Just make an option and default it to off....
    mattji104
    Handschuh
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 726 Advanced user
    edited March 28
    d0ped0g wrote: »
    Omfg don't remove metab from weapons slot. People who use it will have to relearn to fade. What is even the point of doing this.

    You can already queue drifter move orders while it is building. Are you expanding this to include other stuff like enzyme and patrol?


    Why is there any point in having metabolize on a weapons slot if you can simply use it on demand by pressing shift? It would be superfluous and confusing to keep it this way.

    If you're used to switching to meta -> using meta -> switching to swipe, then your fade is bad and should re-learn it anyway, sorry
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
  • HandschuhHandschuh Join Date: 2005-03-08 Member: 44338Members, NS2 Playtester Posts: 340 Advanced user
    .trixX. wrote: »
    d0ped0g wrote: »
    Omfg don't remove metab from weapons slot. People who use it will have to relearn to fade. What is even the point of doing this.

    You can already queue drifter move orders while it is building. Are you expanding this to include other stuff like enzyme and patrol?


    Why is there any point in having metabolize on a weapons slot if you can simply use it on demand by pressing shift? It would be superfluous and confusing to keep it this way.

    If you're used to switching to meta -> using meta -> switching to swipe, then your fade is bad and should re-learn it anyway, sorry

    I know some guys in ns2 who've done it for more than a decade to play fade this way... you shouldn't call people bad who are far superior than you are ;-)

    @devs: Have you not learned, that making things configurable saves all issues like these?
    pSyk0mAnValo
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 726 Advanced user
    edited March 28
    Handschuh wrote: »
    .trixX. wrote: »
    d0ped0g wrote: »
    Omfg don't remove metab from weapons slot. People who use it will have to relearn to fade. What is even the point of doing this.

    You can already queue drifter move orders while it is building. Are you expanding this to include other stuff like enzyme and patrol?


    Why is there any point in having metabolize on a weapons slot if you can simply use it on demand by pressing shift? It would be superfluous and confusing to keep it this way.

    If you're used to switching to meta -> using meta -> switching to swipe, then your fade is bad and should re-learn it anyway, sorry

    I know some guys in ns2 who've done it for more than a decade to play fade this way... you shouldn't call people bad who are far superior than you are ;-)

    I was waiting for this ad-hominem reply ;]

    If one's a better fade than me (no big deal there) and he's using the slot to meta, then he is a bad fade compared to himself, since he could me more effective with shift.

    So no @Handshuch, it's not about absolute skill level, but one compared to their own, in case "bad" is correct. Now please get off the high horse ^^
    Handschuh wrote: »
    @devs: Have you not learned, that making things configurable saves all issues like these?

    Have you not realized yet that making something configurable requires a lot more work? Like GUI, config persistence and app logic changes?
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
    Valo
  • GhoulofGSG9GhoulofGSG9 Join Date: 2013-03-31 Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,813 admin
    edited March 28
    .trixX. wrote: »
    [...]
    Handschuh wrote: »
    @devs: Have you not learned, that making things configurable saves all issues like these?

    Have you not realized yet that making something configurable requires a lot more work? Like GUI, config persistence and app logic changes?

    The real issue of having too many config parameters starts with QA. Every option that affects game play needs to be tested every single time any code regarding to that aspect of the game changes which increases the time needed for testing exponentially with the amount of config parameters. This is the very reason I detest releasing a new version of ns2+, every single change has to be tested with at least 10 different config setups increasing the time needed for a ns2+ release candidate test to at least 1 hour.

    Of course automated testing could resolve that problem to some degree but writing a proper testing framework from stretch at this point would takes at least 100+ hours.
    Developer, Modder and Server Admin of Survival of the Fattest - Ingame Nick: Ghoul
    .trixX.
  • skav2skav2 Join Date: 2007-05-28 Member: 61037Members, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 140 Advanced user
    Im cool with this decision. Since it can be bound to different keys anyway it made no sense to have it as a slot in the abilities. Only problem is newer / nub players may think meta was removed from the game if it is removed. If only there was some sort of diagram showing what buttons do what abilities the newbs can look at. The binds section is quite daunting if you dont know what you are doing.
  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 226 Advanced user
    If you view the help screen (default binding is K) while a fade, it shows you what button to press to use metabolize.
    .trixX.
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 2,663 Advanced user
    edited March 28
    Nintendows wrote: »
    If you view the help screen (default binding is K) while a fade, it shows you what button to press to use metabolize.

    There could be a benefit to having abilities and their keybinds be displayed at all times like KF2 has.

    sVIdAUol.jpg
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 726 Advanced user
    Nintendows wrote: »
    If you view the help screen (default binding is K) while a fade, it shows you what button to press to use metabolize.

    There could be a benefit to having abilities and their keybinds be displayed at all times like KF2 has.

    sVIdAUol.jpg

    Then people will complain that the GUI is obscuring too much, and will mod it away immediately :D
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
    IeptBarakatIronHorse
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 2,663 Advanced user
    edited March 28
    .trixX. wrote: »
    Nintendows wrote: »
    If you view the help screen (default binding is K) while a fade, it shows you what button to press to use metabolize.

    There could be a benefit to having abilities and their keybinds be displayed at all times like KF2 has.

    Then people will complain that the GUI is obscuring too much, and will mod it away immediately :D

    Who needs gui anyways, just r_gui 0 it away and play realism mode. :wink:
  • skav2skav2 Join Date: 2007-05-28 Member: 61037Members, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 140 Advanced user
    A compromise to GUI space is just have the keybinds surround the alien health and energy bars.

    I cant believe how hard it is to find a screenshot of aliens GUI...

    So i drew it.

    bp1lbwihda3w.png
    .trixX.
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 726 Advanced user
    skav2 wrote: »
    A compromise to GUI space is just have the keybinds surround the alien health and energy bars.

    I cant believe how hard it is to find a screenshot of aliens GUI...

    So i drew it.

    bp1lbwihda3w.png

    Skulko Picasso!
    Magnifico! x)
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
    skav2
  • NousWandererNousWanderer Join Date: 2010-05-07 Member: 71646Members Posts: 241 Advanced user
    Of course automated testing could resolve that problem to some degree but writing a proper testing framework from stretch at this point would takes at least 100+ hours.
    UWE could use some of that Subnautica money to hire people to develop a proper testing framework.

  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 226 Advanced user
    Of course automated testing could resolve that problem to some degree but writing a proper testing framework from stretch at this point would takes at least 100+ hours.
    UWE could use some of that Subnautica money to hire people to develop a proper testing framework.

    There used to be a testing framework (and a lot of tests! Hundreds if not thousands!) but it was removed somewhat recently. I am guessing it was not maintained.
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 688 Advanced user
    .trixX. wrote: »
    Nintendows wrote: »
    If you view the help screen (default binding is K) while a fade, it shows you what button to press to use metabolize.

    There could be a benefit to having abilities and their keybinds be displayed at all times like KF2 has.

    sVIdAUol.jpg

    Then people will complain that the GUI is obscuring too much, and will mod it away immediately :D

    This usually isn't a problem because you can make it optional.
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,420 Advanced user
    skav2 wrote: »
    A compromise to GUI space is just have the keybinds surround the alien health and energy bars.

    I cant believe how hard it is to find a screenshot of aliens GUI...

    So i drew it.

    bp1lbwihda3w.png

    You could have just made one :P
    Of course automated testing could resolve that problem to some degree but writing a proper testing framework from stretch at this point would takes at least 100+ hours.
    UWE could use some of that Subnautica money to hire people to develop a proper testing framework.

    This seems like a good way to start turning ns2 into a total moneysink. I'd rather have the slow but steady development we get right now continue than UWE pouring a ton of money into ns2, burning out on the whole thing and then having to write it off as a complete loss because some estimated goals haven't been met.
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
    Nordic
  • skav2skav2 Join Date: 2007-05-28 Member: 61037Members, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 140 Advanced user
    You could have just made one :P

    I did XD
    This seems like a good way to start turning ns2 into a total moneysink. I'd rather have the slow but steady development we get right now continue than UWE pouring a ton of money into ns2, burning out on the whole thing and then having to write it off as a complete loss because some estimated goals haven't been met.

    As much as I would like more time spent developing and updating NS2, I agree with @Vetinari .
  • Vman007Vman007 New York Join Date: 2014-01-22 Member: 193411Members Posts: 20 Advanced user
    edited March 28
    I like the metab change. But for the love of all that is holy change the default quick switch to stay parasite always so people don't blow themselves up after xeno is researched. I don't have to tell you how confusing that is to a rookie trying to learn to parasite often. So many forum post about this and it seems like an easy fix.

    Metab on a weapon slot is minuscule inconvience.

    Xeno taking over parasite after research and blowing yourself is kind of a big thing
    KeatsNordicskav2Nominous
  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 226 Advanced user
    Vman007 wrote: »
    I like the metab change. But for the love of all that is holy change the default quick switch to stay parasite always so people don't blow themselves up after xeno is researched. I don't have to tell you how confusing that is to a rookie trying to learn to parasite often. So many forum post about this and it seems like an easy fix.

    Metab on a weapon slot is minuscule inconvience.

    Xeno taking over parasite after research and blowing yourself is kind of a big thing

    I think alien weapon switching could be removed altogether. Abilities could be activated by pressing the corresponding key (maybe twice for xeno to confirm you really want to xeno).
    IeptBarakatThe_Welsh_WizardAeglos
  • d0ped0gd0ped0g Join Date: 2003-05-25 Member: 16679Members Posts: 781 Advanced user
    edited March 29
    Why is there any point in having metabolize on a weapons slot if you can simply use it on demand by pressing shift? It would be superfluous and confusing to keep it this way.

    A lot of it is just habit ingrained into me from years of ns1. It made it easier to do it the old way from the getgo. But there is a legit purposes for it - and that's ultimately why I never made the switch.

    If you're blinking around the map, especially if there's no marines around and no need to have swipe out, it's much easier just to switch slots and mouseclick. You can just hold it down and breeze around the map rather than tap, tap, tap, tap. It's annoying to have to do that. Especially with your pinky. This alone is reason enough to keep it, and is surely a very common thing that people do. (especially being that you can't simply hold shift)

    But I'll go on.

    It frees up your pinky to crouch, rather than having to switch between the two if you ever need to crouch. And that's pretty much all the time. I'm either crouching or have my pinky always ready to, because it makes the collision box smaller. (i assume it still does this). And because skulks use crouch for walljumping, and their movement is so similar already (leap/blink are both right click propel abilities and you can conserve momentum with queued jumps), it's nice to have my keyboard actions for the two of them the same, rather than adding unfamiliar elements by incorporating shift usage. And especially with a mechanical keyboard, doing these quick switches between control and shift is a lot more awkward than simply keeping the pinky on crouch, and doing weapon-switches with the other fingers.

    As for pressing crouch and shift at the same time: This may have been possible on my old keyboard, but since switching to mechanical, it's actually prohibitively difficult to do this. (for moments that's when required) Either I have to do use my nail on the shift, and finger on control, which is hard to with quickly with enough precision, especially if you're switching from control to control + shift at the same time. Or I have to lay my whole pinky flat, which causes my whole hand to come down, either meaning I have to form an uncomfortable claw shape every time I make have to do this, or risk mashing keys (e.g. my middle finger hitting the S key). So it ends up being a legit sacrifice where either I can do one or the other and have to work my fading around it - and why do that when you have other options.

    Obviously if you use shift only, you already think it's easier, and might not be able to fathom anybody finding that more difficult than doing weapon switching. It's a bit more shit to do, maybe. But my pinky woes are probably more to do with how awkward it feels, rather than difficulty. It might seem silly to you that people actually like doing it this way, but it's not as if I'm not advocating removing the shift quick-key from the game and thus forcing anybody to do it the other way. I'm just asking that you don't remove the old way as an option, and force me and other people to do it the shift way. Especially if there's nothing really added by removing it and a good amount of people at least use it for travel.

    Even if you put shadowstep on the table and forced everybody to use weapon-slot, I'd much rather have the option of using shift. Cause options are good. I will find myself sometimes clicking shift in combat and would like that option available to me. But I simply prefer the old way 99% of the time. I could probably benefit a bit from using shift a weeeee-bit more but I don't think it's really holding me back. It's really not that often that it's actually worth it at all and my fade won't really be that much better off for it imo.
    If you're used to switching to meta -> using meta -> switching to swipe, then your fade is bad and should re-learn it anyway, sorry

    Tbh, if you can't fade well both ways, then your fade is bad :tongue:

    I can use shift. I tried it initially, and it was a bit hard at first but pretty quickly could do it well enough that it didn't really take anything away from my fading ability. But ultimately, I just didn't like it. It was clunky and not as fun, so if I was forced to use only shift, I'd be much much much muuuuuch less inclined to fade to the point I just wouldn't do it anymore unless the team is absolutely desperate and probably not even then.

    So it's not so much that I don't want to relearn to fade - but rather, I don't want to relearn to enjoy fading again.

    My issue isn't reaaaally that pressing shift makes fading "harder". My issue is that I don't like the feel of it. One of my favorite parts of my favorite game would be less enjoyable, and that sucks. It's been on a weapon slot since the dawn of time, and even with the addition a quick-key, people are still getting legitimate use out of the weaponslot option today, so why remove that option? Again - Options are good. Surely I'm not the only one who at least uses a combination of both. Surely there are people who at least travel the map using weapon slot metabolize.

    I'm not exactly sure what's gained from this. It's unnecessary to remove it. It's not superfluous if it actually adds something. It's something that's not deemed "necessary" by absolutely everybody (just as I don't think shift is necessary), but it's certainly something many people get use out of, if only for travel.

    It's really not that confusing either - You have 2 options for fade blink. That's not rocket science. I think we can give people more credit than that. I really doubt any newcomer would actually use the word "confusing" to describe having 2 available options for an ability: one as a weaponslot, and one as a quick-key instacast.

    The game also directs you to use shift in the quick-tips, and the quick-key is something that's incredibly easy to stumble upon considering shift has a purpose for every alien. So it's not a noob-trap either.

    Inevitably, I think it's a restrictive change that solves a problem that doesn't really exist. (apart from in hypotheticals) Instead, in practice, it will just remove options for the player with nothing really gained.

    If the reason is to put stab on slot 2, then lol - stop trying to make stab happen. It's never going to happen. Keep it on slot 3 because I bet it's not used nearly as much as the amount of users who use it for map travel, and even not used nearly as much as the small minority of madmen who use weaponslot metabolize even in combat situations.
    Post edited by d0ped0g on
    ArchieHandschuh
  • ArchieArchie Antarctica Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58028Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter Posts: 401 Advanced user
    edited March 29
    Please leave metabolize on the slots.
    IPB Image Constellation - a great source of income :> http://www.netplanet.co.nz/ns/
    Nintendowsd0ped0g
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 726 Advanced user
    d0ped0g wrote: »
    Tbh, if you can't fade well both ways, then your fade is bad :tongue:

    My fade is bad, period :D

    OK, your reply makes sense from a subjective point of view. I havent thought about the blink combo for eg... nor the uselessness of stab (in general).
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
  • skav2skav2 Join Date: 2007-05-28 Member: 61037Members, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 140 Advanced user
    Stab + Focus is deadly against exos. Just hard to time
    Handschuh
  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 226 Advanced user
    I know image posts are discouraged on this board, but this mimics every opinion I've read with regards to keeping metab as a weapon slot:
    workflow.png
    The_Welsh_WizardVetinari.trixX.
  • BlrgBlrg Join Date: 2013-09-01 Member: 187580Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 150 Advanced user
    Removing something for absolutely no reason in this community is a clear example of pissing in the wind.

    (and yeah, I understand that you don't want to confuse new players with a weapon slot that is not a weapon, but you'll only achieve to piss some people... and the game won't improve at all by doing it)

    I'm grabbing popcorn and waiting for the storm to begin
    d0ped0gThe_Welsh_Wizard
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,594 Advanced user
    This is just another example of how you can't change anything without upsetting somebody.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
    Vetinari.trixX.
  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members Posts: 539 Advanced user
    Nintendows wrote: »
    Vman007 wrote: »
    I like the metab change. But for the love of all that is holy change the default quick switch to stay parasite always so people don't blow themselves up after xeno is researched. I don't have to tell you how confusing that is to a rookie trying to learn to parasite often. So many forum post about this and it seems like an easy fix.

    Metab on a weapon slot is minuscule inconvience.

    Xeno taking over parasite after research and blowing yourself is kind of a big thing

    I think alien weapon switching could be removed altogether. Abilities could be activated by pressing the corresponding key (maybe twice for xeno to confirm you really want to xeno).

    Please map out your planned gorge keys.
    Nordic wrote: »
    This is just another example of how you can't change anything without upsetting somebody.

    I'm still waiting to hear who were those players who had difficulty throwing their welders "far away" because its so difficult to axe a harvester.
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