Well a gravity slingshot maneuver would mean that the Aurora would be orbiting the planet for some time. Long enough to scan the planet for the Degasis and long enough for the gun to ruin everyone's day.
You're not required to orbit during these maneuvers, mostly you're just passing by and make use of gravity to alter your course/velocity.
...
That does leave the theoretical possibility that you could cause it to bend around gravity exactly the way you want it to by controlling it's initial velocity. It's a really interesting idea, honestly.
Yes, but if you can't alter the velocity after the shot how can you assure the target will be hit? If it moves slowly and is highly energetic, the target may detect it in time for evasive action. We're talking about starships with probable means of engaging in speeds way higher than those of a particle beam "surfing" the gravitational well of an earth like planet.
My headcanon is that the beam consists of some kind of guided or homing nano-sized projectiles.
When the Sunbeam is shot down, the emitted beam propagates visibly slower than light while it reaches out to the ship (barely visible, but you can tell). There's also a muzzle-cloud with some stray sparks that quickly fizzle out. Nothing like an energy beam which would be instant.
One might argue that the visual effects probably didn't have physical accuracy as a priority, but it solves the aiming problem
Well a gravity slingshot maneuver would mean that the Aurora would be orbiting the planet for some time. Long enough to scan the planet for the Degasis and long enough for the gun to ruin everyone's day.
That's not what a slingshot is. If they entered an orbit that'd mean losing all potential for gaining... well, any additional delta-v from a gravity assist.
Uh if a ship is orbiting a round planet eventually the gun will be in range.
Unless it's parked in a geostationary orbit
Nice try but that kind of orbit is only attainable on the equator of planets and much closer than a standard orbit. There is no reason for a manned ship like the Aurora to do that.
Actually a geostationary orbit is at about 45,000 kilometers, which makes it a high earth orbit. You could also easily accomplish this with a geocentric orbit which can be off the equator. The point is that you don't ever get over that hemisphere of the planet close enough to get shot.
As for bending the "beam" with gravity, while that is highly unlikely I think the problem most are having when thinking about this is thinking of it as a purely energy weapon. It's much more likely that it's a particle beam. In this case there is no pure energy in the beam, it's just a mass of highly charged particles of something. That does leave the theoretical possibility that you could cause it to bend around gravity exactly the way you want it to by controlling it's initial velocity. It's a really interesting idea, honestly.
A geostationary orbit is 35,786km above the earth's equator. We aren't talking about earth now are we though. So it would be some other distance. Also once you list all the known reasons to be in such an orbit you should also note that from what we know about the Aurora it would not have needed to attain this orbit. So at some point it came within cannon range.
It is also improbable that there is only one cannon. It is highly improbable that an orbiting ship would land anywhere near the terrestrial cannon that brought it down. We must conclude there are many more cannons. It could also be just a video game and so it could be what ever you want because its all made up fantasy.
Yes, but if you can't alter the velocity after the shot how can you assure the target will be hit? If it moves slowly and is highly energetic, the target may detect it in time for evasive action. We're talking about starships with probable means of engaging in speeds way higher than those of a particle beam "surfing" the gravitational well of an earth like planet.
@Maalteromm - very true, a small or maneuverable target would be more difficult to hit. This would explain rather nicely why the QEP plinked the Aurora while it was still well out of the atmosphere but waited to hit the Sunbeam until it was on final approach.
A geostationary orbit is 35,786km above the earth's equator. We aren't talking about earth now are we though. So it would be some other distance. Also once you list all the known reasons to be in such an orbit you should also note that from what we know about the Aurora it would not have needed to attain this orbit. So at some point it came within cannon range.
It is also improbable that there is only one cannon. It is highly improbable that an orbiting ship would land anywhere near the terrestrial cannon that brought it down. We must conclude there are many more cannons. It could also be just a video game and so it could be what ever you want because its all made up fantasy.
The exact altitude is irrelevant for all intents and purposes. Geostationary orbits are defined as the altitude where orbital velocity permits one orbit per local day. Minimum orbital velocity is fixed based on the planet's mass, and the lower your orbit, the more rotations you're going to do in a local day because you can't drop below minimum orbital velocity. Regardless of what planet or other celestial body you want to name, synchronous orbits are always among the highest usable regular orbits. The only satellites we have in orbit over the Earth above geosync are those in the graveyard orbit and they're dead, making the fact that the higher orbit is functionally worthless irrelevant.
It's also important to note that Aurora wasn't orbiting 4546B at all. Based on everything available in game, Aurora was using 4546B's gravity well to perform a Gravity-Assisted Maneuver (GAM) - under the layman label "slingshot maneuver," which no astrophysicist would be caught dead using. While such a transfer does require the vehicle to dip into the body's gravity well, it does not result in a stable orbit, nor can it; during such a transfer, the vehicle is moving much too fast to fall into orbit. If a vehicle attempting a GAM is traveling below the body's escape velocity by the end of the transit, then someone screwed up bigtime.
Quick and dirty, a GAM hinges on two key variables: entry angle and entry velocity. The angle determines just how deep into the well the vehicle will go and its exit vector. The velocity has to be factored into the angle calculations to ensure the vehicle doesn't undershoot or overshoot, and that it will emerge on the correct vector at the correct velocity. A GAM is one of those "simple in principle, complex in execution" things.
Assuming Aurora was strictly in 4546B's gravity well for navigation purposes, they may well have been coming in close to the planetoid's atmosphere to attain the correct exit vector. Without knowing the data for the maneuver, it's impossible to say for sure, but there are a number of entry and exit parameters that would take a vehicle deep into the well, even close to the atmosphere. (You don't want to skim the atmosphere because drag will defeat the purpose of digging in lower; you'd want to adjust your entry angle instead.)
There are ways to get by with only one cannon based on the information given in-game. It'd be an inefficient system, but much lower-cost than installing multiple cannons across the planet. If an empire that was being ravaged by disease and running on fumes for resources were doing the building, it's feasible that with the right technologies they would choose to go with a single cannon.
This debate is going on in other threads and has gone on pretty much since the QEP was put in the game. I won't recopy from the other thread, but will say that I think @cdaragorn is correct: while we're dealing with a DEW, it's not a massless weapon like a laser or electrolaser; it's a particle weapon. It's the only conventional design that ticks all the boxes presented to us in the game's data dumps and events.
Well a gravity slingshot maneuver would mean that the Aurora would be orbiting the planet for some time. Long enough to scan the planet for the Degasis and long enough for the gun to ruin everyone's day.
That's not what a slingshot is. If they entered an orbit that'd mean losing all potential for gaining... well, any additional delta-v from a gravity assist.
Well a gravity slingshot maneuver would mean that the Aurora would be orbiting the planet for some time. Long enough to scan the planet for the Degasis and long enough for the gun to ruin everyone's day.
That's not what a slingshot is. If they entered an orbit that'd mean losing all potential for gaining... well, any additional delta-v from a gravity assist.
thanks kerbal space program
They will ask you three questions before hiring you at NASA
@Maalteromm - very true, a small or maneuverable target would be more difficult to hit. This would explain rather nicely why the QEP plinked the Aurora while it was still well out of the atmosphere but waited to hit the Sunbeam until it was on final approach.
That's a viable explanation. Then I expect the Aurora to be pretty close to the planet on the moment of impact, or for the QEP to shoot its beam at varying velocities depending on its target position.
Because a very fast beam wouldn't be able to surf the gravitational well. To do this properly it should fly at ~tens of km/miles per second. Any orbit higher than 20-30km should give the targeted craft quite a few minutes to react and, assuming it can gain velocity in a direction normal to the craft current route, it would only need to achieve a regular human walking speed to cover it's silhouette in this time frame.
@starkaos, please do not make fun of KSP in this fashion. This game does a terrific job in communicating science. It allows people to visualize gravitating bodies in ways they are not used to.
Also it is a nice physical model, despite simplistic. Simple models are very competent ways to understand most subjects. In fact, orbital mechanics in itself is a simplified model as we usually do not apply relativistic mechanics to calculate everyday rocket trajectories.
@Maalteromm - very true, a small or maneuverable target would be more difficult to hit. This would explain rather nicely why the QEP plinked the Aurora while it was still well out of the atmosphere but waited to hit the Sunbeam until it was on final approach.
@starkaos, please do not make fun of KSP in this fashion. This game does a terrific job in communicating science. It allows people to visualize gravitating bodies in ways they are not used to.
Also it is a nice physical model, despite simplistic. Simple models are very competent ways to understand most subjects. In fact, orbital mechanics in itself is a simplified model as we usually do not apply relativistic mechanics to calculate everyday rocket trajectories.
Who said I was making fun of KSP? The first comic even shows that people understand Orbital Mechanics better through KSP than working at NASA. The second comic shows that NASA is jealous of KSP.
@starkaos
It is unlikely, but not impossible. There has to be more islands, otherwise surface plants and skyrays wouldn't have evolved. When scanning the big floaters on the floating island they cue that there are other such floating landmasses in the planet.
The planet is also tectonically active, therefore formation and destruction of new landmasses is also probable in a geologic time scale. It is very likely that 4546B has other volcanic islands around it.
The beam bends by the gravity on the planet. Yes it is werid but it does sound cool they created a gun that can bend a laser via gravity.
Maybe it is not an energy weapon, but a highly exotic kinetic weapon. I think the main questions are, how fast does its ordnance travel? Is it capable of accelerating?
Someone's not thinking with Portals...
...
Precursor technology is sufficiently advanced to either teleport in additional guns or fabricate them where they're needed.
That big bad gun seems like it isn't really easy to build, or move, but couldn't one aim through a portal and use portals to increase the gun coverage? Maybe even to off planet sites?
Exotic kinetic weapon?
...What, like in Destiny 2? Is that Crimson or Sweet Business?
@Maalteromm - very true, a small or maneuverable target would be more difficult to hit. This would explain rather nicely why the QEP plinked the Aurora while it was still well out of the atmosphere but waited to hit the Sunbeam until it was on final approach.
@starkaos, please do not make fun of KSP in this fashion. This game does a terrific job in communicating science. It allows people to visualize gravitating bodies in ways they are not used to.
Also it is a nice physical model, despite simplistic. Simple models are very competent ways to understand most subjects. In fact, orbital mechanics in itself is a simplified model as we usually do not apply relativistic mechanics to calculate everyday rocket trajectories.
Who said I was making fun of KSP? The first comic even shows that people understand Orbital Mechanics better through KSP than working at NASA. The second comic shows that NASA is jealous of KSP.
Vahalwandering in my dear SeamothJoin Date: 2018-01-12Member: 234986Members
Why kinetic? EM radiations can be bent by gravity. That's how we use gravitional lenses and why black holes abuse light. So you can have a technology allowing a beam to be bent by gravitational forces (perhaps artificial ones)
Hopefully in Subnautica you donit face the mighty KRAKEN (well even if Sea dragon could be som kind of cousin)
Why kinetic? EM radiations can be bent by gravity. That's how we use gravitional lenses and why black holes abuse light. So you can have a technology allowing a beam to be bent by gravitational forces (perhaps artificial ones)
Hopefully in Subnautica you donit face the mighty KRAKEN (well even if Sea dragon could be som kind of cousin)
EM radiations need a LOT of gravity to bend properly. I like the suggestion about artificial gravity, and maybe they use it to bring the crashing ships to the same spot. However it should work with "beams" or "lanes" of artificial gravity, because if it suddenly created a gravity well large enough to bend EM rad, then it would probably crush the planet itself, suck the moon, the sister planet and all sorts of undesired effects.
The precursors do show master of gravity in the QEP elevator.
If the moon was a black hole, it would be so small we couldn't see it. I'm pretty sure it would have to be less than a few cm in radius.
Yeah pretty much and those tiny black holes would probably evaporate very quickly as well. But he threw in an actual decent size black hole there and the result is, well let's just call it a bull in a China shop
Comments
:facepalm:
just kidding, love it!
Yes, but if you can't alter the velocity after the shot how can you assure the target will be hit? If it moves slowly and is highly energetic, the target may detect it in time for evasive action. We're talking about starships with probable means of engaging in speeds way higher than those of a particle beam "surfing" the gravitational well of an earth like planet.
When the Sunbeam is shot down, the emitted beam propagates visibly slower than light while it reaches out to the ship (barely visible, but you can tell). There's also a muzzle-cloud with some stray sparks that quickly fizzle out. Nothing like an energy beam which would be instant.
One might argue that the visual effects probably didn't have physical accuracy as a priority, but it solves the aiming problem
thanks kerbal space program
A geostationary orbit is 35,786km above the earth's equator. We aren't talking about earth now are we though. So it would be some other distance. Also once you list all the known reasons to be in such an orbit you should also note that from what we know about the Aurora it would not have needed to attain this orbit. So at some point it came within cannon range.
It is also improbable that there is only one cannon. It is highly improbable that an orbiting ship would land anywhere near the terrestrial cannon that brought it down. We must conclude there are many more cannons. It could also be just a video game and so it could be what ever you want because its all made up fantasy.
@Maalteromm - very true, a small or maneuverable target would be more difficult to hit. This would explain rather nicely why the QEP plinked the Aurora while it was still well out of the atmosphere but waited to hit the Sunbeam until it was on final approach.
The exact altitude is irrelevant for all intents and purposes. Geostationary orbits are defined as the altitude where orbital velocity permits one orbit per local day. Minimum orbital velocity is fixed based on the planet's mass, and the lower your orbit, the more rotations you're going to do in a local day because you can't drop below minimum orbital velocity. Regardless of what planet or other celestial body you want to name, synchronous orbits are always among the highest usable regular orbits. The only satellites we have in orbit over the Earth above geosync are those in the graveyard orbit and they're dead, making the fact that the higher orbit is functionally worthless irrelevant.
It's also important to note that Aurora wasn't orbiting 4546B at all. Based on everything available in game, Aurora was using 4546B's gravity well to perform a Gravity-Assisted Maneuver (GAM) - under the layman label "slingshot maneuver," which no astrophysicist would be caught dead using. While such a transfer does require the vehicle to dip into the body's gravity well, it does not result in a stable orbit, nor can it; during such a transfer, the vehicle is moving much too fast to fall into orbit. If a vehicle attempting a GAM is traveling below the body's escape velocity by the end of the transit, then someone screwed up bigtime.
Assuming Aurora was strictly in 4546B's gravity well for navigation purposes, they may well have been coming in close to the planetoid's atmosphere to attain the correct exit vector. Without knowing the data for the maneuver, it's impossible to say for sure, but there are a number of entry and exit parameters that would take a vehicle deep into the well, even close to the atmosphere. (You don't want to skim the atmosphere because drag will defeat the purpose of digging in lower; you'd want to adjust your entry angle instead.)
There are ways to get by with only one cannon based on the information given in-game. It'd be an inefficient system, but much lower-cost than installing multiple cannons across the planet. If an empire that was being ravaged by disease and running on fumes for resources were doing the building, it's feasible that with the right technologies they would choose to go with a single cannon.
This debate is going on in other threads and has gone on pretty much since the QEP was put in the game. I won't recopy from the other thread, but will say that I think @cdaragorn is correct: while we're dealing with a DEW, it's not a massless weapon like a laser or electrolaser; it's a particle weapon. It's the only conventional design that ticks all the boxes presented to us in the game's data dumps and events.
They will ask you three questions before hiring you at NASA
Because a very fast beam wouldn't be able to surf the gravitational well. To do this properly it should fly at ~tens of km/miles per second. Any orbit higher than 20-30km should give the targeted craft quite a few minutes to react and, assuming it can gain velocity in a direction normal to the craft current route, it would only need to achieve a regular human walking speed to cover it's silhouette in this time frame.
@starkaos, please do not make fun of KSP in this fashion. This game does a terrific job in communicating science. It allows people to visualize gravitating bodies in ways they are not used to.
Also it is a nice physical model, despite simplistic. Simple models are very competent ways to understand most subjects. In fact, orbital mechanics in itself is a simplified model as we usually do not apply relativistic mechanics to calculate everyday rocket trajectories.
Who said I was making fun of KSP? The first comic even shows that people understand Orbital Mechanics better through KSP than working at NASA. The second comic shows that NASA is jealous of KSP.
Exotic kinetic weapon?
...What, like in Destiny 2? Is that Crimson or Sweet Business?
Sorry.
Exotic in the sense of magical/fantasy. Read it like Magical kinetic weapon, one that does not behave the way we expect it to.
Hopefully in Subnautica you donit face the mighty KRAKEN (well even if Sea dragon could be som kind of cousin)
EM radiations need a LOT of gravity to bend properly. I like the suggestion about artificial gravity, and maybe they use it to bring the crashing ships to the same spot. However it should work with "beams" or "lanes" of artificial gravity, because if it suddenly created a gravity well large enough to bend EM rad, then it would probably crush the planet itself, suck the moon, the sister planet and all sorts of undesired effects.
The precursors do show master of gravity in the QEP elevator.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=vUQXELrSfn4
Yeah pretty much and those tiny black holes would probably evaporate very quickly as well. But he threw in an actual decent size black hole there and the result is, well let's just call it a bull in a China shop
tsk, tsk, racist remark, thst...