240hz monitors

N@uralBornNoobistN@uralBornNoobist Gorge-N-Freeman,2Gorges1Clog Join Date: 2012-12-24 Member: 176138Members Posts: 115 Advanced user
right...in the future its obvious 200+ plus constant fps could be achieved with newer hardware, ten thousand lines of code updated...etc.

is it actually possible to update the engine to enable more than 200 fps possible?
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  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,375 Advanced user
    Possible? Yes.
    When you aim for perfect balance, you discover it's a moving target.
    Perfect balance is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellent gameplay.
    NS2 is a moving, breathing thing. We have to be willing to constantly evolve. Perfect balance is constant transformation.
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,736 admin
    Yea I can bump that up, 300 sound good?
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,375 Advanced user
    BeigeAlert wrote: »
    Yea I can bump that up, 300 sound good?

    241 fps max
    When you aim for perfect balance, you discover it's a moving target.
    Perfect balance is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellent gameplay.
    NS2 is a moving, breathing thing. We have to be willing to constantly evolve. Perfect balance is constant transformation.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 14,850 Advanced user
    edited November 13
    Hope Spark can handle that, I mean there once was a high FPS bug, which crashed the game above 60FPS :trollface:

    Also name me one computer config capable of handling NS2 at a constant 240FPS, while we're at it o/

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  • SantaClawsSantaClaws Denmark Join Date: 2012-07-31 Member: 154491Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,032 Advanced user
    edited November 13
    Why do you have a hardcoded fps cap anyway? I mean, as a default sure, but let people go as high as they want? Why not? In Reflex I play with 500 fps.
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,280 Advanced user
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Hope Spark can handle that, I mean there once was a high FPS bug, which crashed the game above 60FPS :trollface:

    Also name me one computer config capable of handling NS2 at a constant 240FPS, while we're at it o/

    How about 500? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOP500
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,375 Advanced user
    Mephilles wrote: »
    why not cap the game at 30 fps. The human eye can't see more frames anyway :tongue:

    This is a great idea. This way UWE can fix audio without destroying performance
    When you aim for perfect balance, you discover it's a moving target.
    Perfect balance is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellent gameplay.
    NS2 is a moving, breathing thing. We have to be willing to constantly evolve. Perfect balance is constant transformation.
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,280 Advanced user
    Mephilles wrote: »
    why not cap the game at 30 fps. The human eye can't see more frames anyway :tongue:

    I hear it's even better if you go down to 24. Really cinematic, apparently.
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 14,850 Advanced user
    edited November 13
    Vetinari wrote: »
    Mephilles wrote: »
    why not cap the game at 30 fps. The human eye can't see more frames anyway :tongue:

    I hear it's even better if you go down to 24. Really cinematic, apparently.

    We do require some motion blur for the frame blending naturally, to get that full movie experience :D

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  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,280 Advanced user
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Vetinari wrote: »
    Mephilles wrote: »
    why not cap the game at 30 fps. The human eye can't see more frames anyway :tongue:

    I hear it's even better if you go down to 24. Really cinematic, apparently.

    We do require some motion blur for the frame blending naturally, to get that full movie experience :D

    I M M E R S I O N
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect
  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, Pistachionauts Posts: 4,167 Advanced user
    edited November 14
    Honestly, if motion blur didn't have an FPS cost, it would always improve things. I'd much rather have 80 fps with high quality motion blur than 90 fps. It's effectively antialiasing in the time domain. If you don't like it, you should turn off mipmapping. ;)
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,736 admin
    moultano wrote: »
    Honestly, if motion blur didn't have an FPS cost, it would always improve things. I'd much rather have 80 fps with high quality motion blur than 90 fps. It's effectively antialiasing in the time domain. If you don't like it, you should turn off mipmapping. ;)

    Not sure what mip mapping has to do with time, but I agree about motion blur. DOOM does it right (and sustains a ridiculously high frame rate). The game just LOOKS smoother with motion blur enabled.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 14,850 Advanced user
    edited November 14
    I don't like motion blur for twitch shooters though, I want my crisp outlines to place them bullets. Sure it looks smooth, but also smears silhouettes. Kinda similar to how V-Sync gives us a no-tear experience. Sure it looks better, but it also introduces input lag.

    Some visual enhancements are best left to cinematic stuff and slower paced singleplayer games mostly

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  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, Pistachionauts Posts: 4,167 Advanced user
    BeigeAlert wrote: »
    moultano wrote: »
    Honestly, if motion blur didn't have an FPS cost, it would always improve things. I'd much rather have 80 fps with high quality motion blur than 90 fps. It's effectively antialiasing in the time domain. If you don't like it, you should turn off mipmapping. ;)

    Not sure what mip mapping has to do with time, but I agree about motion blur. DOOM does it right (and sustains a ridiculously high frame rate). The game just LOOKS smoother with motion blur enabled.

    mip-mapping and antialiasing do in the spatial domain what motion blur does in the time domain. (Smooth jagged edges caused by the low frequency that the underlying signal is sampled.)
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,736 admin
    moultano wrote: »
    BeigeAlert wrote: »
    moultano wrote: »
    Honestly, if motion blur didn't have an FPS cost, it would always improve things. I'd much rather have 80 fps with high quality motion blur than 90 fps. It's effectively antialiasing in the time domain. If you don't like it, you should turn off mipmapping. ;)

    Not sure what mip mapping has to do with time, but I agree about motion blur. DOOM does it right (and sustains a ridiculously high frame rate). The game just LOOKS smoother with motion blur enabled.

    mip-mapping and antialiasing do in the spatial domain what motion blur does in the time domain. (Smooth jagged edges caused by the low frequency that the underlying signal is sampled.)

    Heh... I've seen this before... Remember that one thread where aliasing was attributed to higher quality/sharpness?
  • G_LockG_Lock Playtester_ FL Join Date: 2013-04-03 Member: 184624Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 90 Advanced user
    edited November 16
    Mephilles wrote: »
    why not cap the game at 30 fps. The human eye can't see more frames anyway :tongue:

    I cap in game /w maxfps cmd at 142fps so i don't cross the 144 Hz max refresh rate on my screen, running G-sync with V-sync off in Nvidia control panel + off in game, i don't want it to disengage G-sync because it cross's the screens 144 Hz threshold. (G-sync turns off automatically if the fps in game goes over your max refresh rate your screen is capable of) G-sync on with out the input lag introduced from V-sync is great. This wouldn't be possible if the didn't have the ability to cap fps in game. =)

    Post edited by G_Lock on
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members Posts: 1,658 Advanced user
    moultano wrote: »
    BeigeAlert wrote: »
    moultano wrote: »
    Honestly, if motion blur didn't have an FPS cost, it would always improve things. I'd much rather have 80 fps with high quality motion blur than 90 fps. It's effectively antialiasing in the time domain. If you don't like it, you should turn off mipmapping. ;)

    Not sure what mip mapping has to do with time, but I agree about motion blur. DOOM does it right (and sustains a ridiculously high frame rate). The game just LOOKS smoother with motion blur enabled.

    mip-mapping and antialiasing do in the spatial domain what motion blur does in the time domain. (Smooth jagged edges caused by the low frequency that the underlying signal is sampled.)

    It does the same thing in the time domain as post-aa does in the spatial domain. I absolutely despise 90% of post-aa, and I am not the biggest fan of temporal-aa either.
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, Pistachionauts Posts: 4,167 Advanced user
    coolitic wrote: »
    moultano wrote: »
    BeigeAlert wrote: »
    moultano wrote: »
    Honestly, if motion blur didn't have an FPS cost, it would always improve things. I'd much rather have 80 fps with high quality motion blur than 90 fps. It's effectively antialiasing in the time domain. If you don't like it, you should turn off mipmapping. ;)

    Not sure what mip mapping has to do with time, but I agree about motion blur. DOOM does it right (and sustains a ridiculously high frame rate). The game just LOOKS smoother with motion blur enabled.

    mip-mapping and antialiasing do in the spatial domain what motion blur does in the time domain. (Smooth jagged edges caused by the low frequency that the underlying signal is sampled.)

    It does the same thing in the time domain as post-aa does in the spatial domain. I absolutely despise 90% of post-aa, and I am not the biggest fan of temporal-aa either.

    I really don't think that's true. If you have a velocity vector in the screen buffer, you should be able to almost exactly simulate the effect of a much higher framerate. (This makes me think though, what if it were used for interpolation rather than blurring to actually simulate a much higher framerate? You could predict an approximation of the next frame before it's ready.)
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 14,850 Advanced user
    edited November 16
    Isn't that what they did for the Xbone to simulate 60FPS, because they had some free processing power per game tick to calculate those for some games?

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  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,736 admin
    coolitic wrote: »
    moultano wrote: »
    BeigeAlert wrote: »
    moultano wrote: »
    Honestly, if motion blur didn't have an FPS cost, it would always improve things. I'd much rather have 80 fps with high quality motion blur than 90 fps. It's effectively antialiasing in the time domain. If you don't like it, you should turn off mipmapping. ;)

    Not sure what mip mapping has to do with time, but I agree about motion blur. DOOM does it right (and sustains a ridiculously high frame rate). The game just LOOKS smoother with motion blur enabled.

    mip-mapping and antialiasing do in the spatial domain what motion blur does in the time domain. (Smooth jagged edges caused by the low frequency that the underlying signal is sampled.)

    It does the same thing in the time domain as post-aa does in the spatial domain. I absolutely despise 90% of post-aa, and I am not the biggest fan of temporal-aa either.

    Mip mapping isn't a post effect applied after sampling is performed, it is a downsampling, to the source data which effectively doubles the number of samples for each level. So for example, if you're rendering a 1024x1024 texture into a 256x256 area, you'd need to perform 16 samples per pixel in order to prevent aliasing! But with mip mapping, since that's computed ahead of time, you can just perform ONE sample on the 3rd mip map level. This isn't some cheap post effect.

    The temporal AA in DOOM is damn-near flawless.
    moultano wrote: »
    I really don't think that's true. If you have a velocity vector in the screen buffer, you should be able to almost exactly simulate the effect of a much higher framerate. (This makes me think though, what if it were used for interpolation rather than blurring to actually simulate a much higher framerate? You could predict an approximation of the next frame before it's ready.)

    For a super simple environment, yea probably... but for just about any real-world experiment, that just doesn't work out -- there's just too much missing data (eg a foreground object from previous frame covering the background of the current frame, creating a "hole"). Not to mention, what happens if you turn your view REALLY REALLY fast (as one does with a shotgun in ns2). You'd get large portions of the screen missing because that part of the screen was off-screen in the previous frame.

    Yea you could probably fill in the holes with previous frame data... it might look okay.
  • N@uralBornNoobistN@uralBornNoobist Gorge-N-Freeman,2Gorges1Clog Join Date: 2012-12-24 Member: 176138Members Posts: 115 Advanced user
    edited November 16
    what i dont get is 60fps videos on you tube look smoother and more clear than playing the game in RL. when u actually play at 60hz...its like your playing with 10 fps.
  • ObraxisObraxis Subnautica Animator, NS2 Person Join Date: 2004-07-24 Member: 30071Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, WC 2013 - Supporter, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,875 admin
    what i dont get is 60fps videos on you tube look smoother and more clear than playing the game in RL. when u actually play at 60hz...its like your playing with 10 fps.

    That's to do with frame timings. In a video they are perfectly lined up frames being shown perfectly in time (usually). Games running at 60FPS might be having some hitching from bad frame timings for all sorts of reasons. Especially if you have say, a 100hz screen but playing at 60FPS.
    Kouji_SanTarkannen
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 14,850 Advanced user
    And keep an eye out for people adding frame-blending to their videos, pause it to see if you can see "blended" frames. Which basically looks like ghost effects around what should be sharp edges, in motion this looks a lot smoother and might even be used to "hide" bad framerates

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    Tarkannen
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members Posts: 1,658 Advanced user
    edited November 17
    @BeigeAlert , I was obv referring to motion blur...

    And the temporal AA in Doom, while still pretty damn good, has issues with moving/complex scenes. People keep trying to find ways around this kind of thing, but you can't generate information from nothing. Also, doesn't temporal AA always have 1 frame of input lag? (I could be wrong)
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  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,736 admin
    coolitic wrote: »
    @BeigeAlert , I was obv referring to motion blur...

    And the temporal AA in Doom, while still pretty damn good, has issues with moving/complex scenes. People keep trying to find ways around this kind of thing, but you can't generate information from nothing. Also, doesn't temporal AA always have 1 frame of input lag? (I could be wrong)

    Ah sorry, didn't read carefully enough.

    Yea it's a workaround, a hack. There are always going to be drawbacks to it, but it's far and above better than any other AA implementation I've seen. It's not so much "generating information from nothing" as it is attempting to re-use as much information as it can.
  • N@uralBornNoobistN@uralBornNoobist Gorge-N-Freeman,2Gorges1Clog Join Date: 2012-12-24 Member: 176138Members Posts: 115 Advanced user
    edited 1:06PM
    i just got a 240 hz monitor, the 1 ive got im sending back to swap for the benq version with dynamic accuracy blur reduction.

    is there anyway for me to alter any files to enable 240fps to see what it truely can perform like?

    i would be able to get the 240fps within the marine training level, tbh even at the start of games i can now manage to achieve 200fps thanks to the recent game update.


    Realistically i wouldnt expect any kind of fps cap upgrade until the next cpu's come out as at that time it would make sense.

    Post edited by N@uralBornNoobist at
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 14,850 Advanced user
    The "maxfps X" command is a "cheat command", because it could be used as a troll teleportation weapon by setting it at low FPS values. And those lua files are not whitelisted, so you wouldn't be able to play online

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  • N@uralBornNoobistN@uralBornNoobist Gorge-N-Freeman,2Gorges1Clog Join Date: 2012-12-24 Member: 176138Members Posts: 115 Advanced user
    edited 9:11PM
    in all seriousness loosing out on 40 hz is kinda a big deal.

    like going from 60 lumins of light up to 100 lumins of Slightly getting weerder already.

    its kinda like a troll posting only 60 times a day vs 100 times a day vs belief vs believe me when i say F+U adds up to 27 which is also short for B+G...which adds up to 9 which is...(i) c what (U)......is 21 which 2+1 is (C) what im doing yet? which the CONtents of these brackets once u open the chest u found in my TEXT base[-d-] rP[g b]rackets...SHUT THEM UP, add up to 33 which is c+c+c+c which is L...which is round the bend, witch way is this going?

    Anyways...like i was saYTin about the fact he aint white...hes 45 which adds up to DE short 4 words about him being Red when ive just prooved him in the OVEN over night...2 B...ac in a moment. just gotta stair at what im cooking at on the 1st step 4 a 2nd or 0 points if your knot floating along the wall waves.


    long and very cool story about why its actually just easier to open up the WINDOW key...inhale...find the round icon with the I c where this is going again icon using your icons situated within your i ball pockets sky rockets......minus frame rate=RL which=3x0=45 which leads us back to i think you understand that its actually much much easier to up the fps cap.

    point prooven in the oven inside my bed for about 20 minutes 2 facilitate the evolution of more = less guess

    \ / \ / [ ] R K.

    basically in a nutshell this should actually proove a . that ive wasted more time here than it would take to up the fps 2 40fps.
    every1 knows that 40 fps is the ideal range to track trains down tank track pace moving .obj files.

    lesson learnt...within 1 not funny nor entertaining...very boring write along sing along about why i got upset over 40fps GET OVER IT...o wait... i CANT GET OVER iT.


    wait never mind panic over...i noticed u made a mistake...its not X u type...maybe thats 1 cheat code, just type 4-0 then the .obj files .collada .collapse on the ground,go DOWN and UP across the screen much better. Gsync...Freesync...who cares...40 fps is like water going down sinks. speaking of which...just eat this 1 food everyday and u wont lag anymore.


    2 further re-iterate this is what 240fps is all about...sense..normal behaviour...basic understandings...easy on the eye mentalities.
    this is what 200fps on a 240hz monitor is all about...xxxx..xxxxx xxxxxxxx...xxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxx...xxx xx xxx xxx xxxxxxxxx
    Post edited by N@uralBornNoobist at
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 14,850 Advanced user
    It shouldn't be dependent on a mod or console command anyway, game should just up the cap to the latest monitor frequency. However, reaching that elusive constant 240FPS, that is an entirely story in and of itself :D

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