moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited November 2017
Honestly, if motion blur didn't have an FPS cost, it would always improve things. I'd much rather have 80 fps with high quality motion blur than 90 fps. It's effectively antialiasing in the time domain. If you don't like it, you should turn off mipmapping.
Honestly, if motion blur didn't have an FPS cost, it would always improve things. I'd much rather have 80 fps with high quality motion blur than 90 fps. It's effectively antialiasing in the time domain. If you don't like it, you should turn off mipmapping.
Not sure what mip mapping has to do with time, but I agree about motion blur. DOOM does it right (and sustains a ridiculously high frame rate). The game just LOOKS smoother with motion blur enabled.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2017
I don't like motion blur for twitch shooters though, I want my crisp outlines to place them bullets. Sure it looks smooth, but also smears silhouettes. Kinda similar to how V-Sync gives us a no-tear experience. Sure it looks better, but it also introduces input lag.
Some visual enhancements are best left to cinematic stuff and slower paced singleplayer games mostly
Honestly, if motion blur didn't have an FPS cost, it would always improve things. I'd much rather have 80 fps with high quality motion blur than 90 fps. It's effectively antialiasing in the time domain. If you don't like it, you should turn off mipmapping.
Not sure what mip mapping has to do with time, but I agree about motion blur. DOOM does it right (and sustains a ridiculously high frame rate). The game just LOOKS smoother with motion blur enabled.
mip-mapping and antialiasing do in the spatial domain what motion blur does in the time domain. (Smooth jagged edges caused by the low frequency that the underlying signal is sampled.)
Honestly, if motion blur didn't have an FPS cost, it would always improve things. I'd much rather have 80 fps with high quality motion blur than 90 fps. It's effectively antialiasing in the time domain. If you don't like it, you should turn off mipmapping.
Not sure what mip mapping has to do with time, but I agree about motion blur. DOOM does it right (and sustains a ridiculously high frame rate). The game just LOOKS smoother with motion blur enabled.
mip-mapping and antialiasing do in the spatial domain what motion blur does in the time domain. (Smooth jagged edges caused by the low frequency that the underlying signal is sampled.)
Heh... I've seen this before... Remember that one thread where aliasing was attributed to higher quality/sharpness?
why not cap the game at 30 fps. The human eye can't see more frames anyway
I cap in game /w maxfps cmd at 142fps so i don't cross the 144 Hz max refresh rate on my screen, running G-sync with V-sync off in Nvidia control panel + off in game, i don't want it to disengage G-sync because it cross's the screens 144 Hz threshold. (G-sync turns off automatically if the fps in game goes over your max refresh rate your screen is capable of) G-sync on with out the input lag introduced from V-sync is great. This wouldn't be possible if the didn't have the ability to cap fps in game.
Honestly, if motion blur didn't have an FPS cost, it would always improve things. I'd much rather have 80 fps with high quality motion blur than 90 fps. It's effectively antialiasing in the time domain. If you don't like it, you should turn off mipmapping.
Not sure what mip mapping has to do with time, but I agree about motion blur. DOOM does it right (and sustains a ridiculously high frame rate). The game just LOOKS smoother with motion blur enabled.
mip-mapping and antialiasing do in the spatial domain what motion blur does in the time domain. (Smooth jagged edges caused by the low frequency that the underlying signal is sampled.)
It does the same thing in the time domain as post-aa does in the spatial domain. I absolutely despise 90% of post-aa, and I am not the biggest fan of temporal-aa either.
Honestly, if motion blur didn't have an FPS cost, it would always improve things. I'd much rather have 80 fps with high quality motion blur than 90 fps. It's effectively antialiasing in the time domain. If you don't like it, you should turn off mipmapping.
Not sure what mip mapping has to do with time, but I agree about motion blur. DOOM does it right (and sustains a ridiculously high frame rate). The game just LOOKS smoother with motion blur enabled.
mip-mapping and antialiasing do in the spatial domain what motion blur does in the time domain. (Smooth jagged edges caused by the low frequency that the underlying signal is sampled.)
It does the same thing in the time domain as post-aa does in the spatial domain. I absolutely despise 90% of post-aa, and I am not the biggest fan of temporal-aa either.
I really don't think that's true. If you have a velocity vector in the screen buffer, you should be able to almost exactly simulate the effect of a much higher framerate. (This makes me think though, what if it were used for interpolation rather than blurring to actually simulate a much higher framerate? You could predict an approximation of the next frame before it's ready.)
Honestly, if motion blur didn't have an FPS cost, it would always improve things. I'd much rather have 80 fps with high quality motion blur than 90 fps. It's effectively antialiasing in the time domain. If you don't like it, you should turn off mipmapping.
Not sure what mip mapping has to do with time, but I agree about motion blur. DOOM does it right (and sustains a ridiculously high frame rate). The game just LOOKS smoother with motion blur enabled.
mip-mapping and antialiasing do in the spatial domain what motion blur does in the time domain. (Smooth jagged edges caused by the low frequency that the underlying signal is sampled.)
It does the same thing in the time domain as post-aa does in the spatial domain. I absolutely despise 90% of post-aa, and I am not the biggest fan of temporal-aa either.
Mip mapping isn't a post effect applied after sampling is performed, it is a downsampling, to the source data which effectively doubles the number of samples for each level. So for example, if you're rendering a 1024x1024 texture into a 256x256 area, you'd need to perform 16 samples per pixel in order to prevent aliasing! But with mip mapping, since that's computed ahead of time, you can just perform ONE sample on the 3rd mip map level. This isn't some cheap post effect.
I really don't think that's true. If you have a velocity vector in the screen buffer, you should be able to almost exactly simulate the effect of a much higher framerate. (This makes me think though, what if it were used for interpolation rather than blurring to actually simulate a much higher framerate? You could predict an approximation of the next frame before it's ready.)
For a super simple environment, yea probably... but for just about any real-world experiment, that just doesn't work out -- there's just too much missing data (eg a foreground object from previous frame covering the background of the current frame, creating a "hole"). Not to mention, what happens if you turn your view REALLY REALLY fast (as one does with a shotgun in ns2). You'd get large portions of the screen missing because that part of the screen was off-screen in the previous frame.
Yea you could probably fill in the holes with previous frame data... it might look okay.
what i dont get is 60fps videos on you tube look smoother and more clear than playing the game in RL. when u actually play at 60hz...its like your playing with 10 fps.
what i dont get is 60fps videos on you tube look smoother and more clear than playing the game in RL. when u actually play at 60hz...its like your playing with 10 fps.
That's to do with frame timings. In a video they are perfectly lined up frames being shown perfectly in time (usually). Games running at 60FPS might be having some hitching from bad frame timings for all sorts of reasons. Especially if you have say, a 100hz screen but playing at 60FPS.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
And keep an eye out for people adding frame-blending to their videos, pause it to see if you can see "blended" frames. Which basically looks like ghost effects around what should be sharp edges, in motion this looks a lot smoother and might even be used to "hide" bad framerates
@BeigeAlert , I was obv referring to motion blur...
And the temporal AA in Doom, while still pretty damn good, has issues with moving/complex scenes. People keep trying to find ways around this kind of thing, but you can't generate information from nothing. Also, doesn't temporal AA always have 1 frame of input lag? (I could be wrong)
@BeigeAlert , I was obv referring to motion blur...
And the temporal AA in Doom, while still pretty damn good, has issues with moving/complex scenes. People keep trying to find ways around this kind of thing, but you can't generate information from nothing. Also, doesn't temporal AA always have 1 frame of input lag? (I could be wrong)
Ah sorry, didn't read carefully enough.
Yea it's a workaround, a hack. There are always going to be drawbacks to it, but it's far and above better than any other AA implementation I've seen. It's not so much "generating information from nothing" as it is attempting to re-use as much information as it can.
i just got a 240 hz monitor, the 1 ive got im sending back to swap for the benq version with dynamic accuracy blur reduction.
is there anyway for me to alter any files to enable 240fps to see what it truely can perform like?
i would be able to get the 240fps within the marine training level, tbh even at the start of games i can now manage to achieve 200fps thanks to the recent game update.
Realistically i wouldnt expect any kind of fps cap upgrade until the next cpu's come out as at that time it would make sense.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
The "maxfps X" command is a "cheat command", because it could be used as a troll teleportation weapon by setting it at low FPS values. And those lua files are not whitelisted, so you wouldn't be able to play online
in all seriousness loosing out on 40 hz is kinda a big deal.
like going from 60 lumins of light up to 100 lumins of Slightly getting weerder already.
its kinda like a troll posting only 60 times a day vs 100 times a day vs belief vs believe me when i say F+U adds up to 27 which is also short for B+G...which adds up to 9 which is...(i) c what (U)......is 21 which 2+1 is (C) what im doing yet? which the CONtents of these brackets once u open the chest u found in my TEXT base[-d-] rP[g b]rackets...SHUT THEM UP, add up to 33 which is c+c+c+c which is L...which is round the bend, witch way is this going?
Anyways...like i was saYTin about the fact he aint white...hes 45 which adds up to DE short 4 words about him being Red when ive just prooved him in the OVEN over night...2 B...ac in a moment. just gotta stair at what im cooking at on the 1st step 4 a 2nd or 0 points if your knot floating along the wall waves.
long and very cool story about why its actually just easier to open up the WINDOW key...inhale...find the round icon with the I c where this is going again icon using your icons situated within your i ball pockets sky rockets......minus frame rate=RL which=3x0=45 which leads us back to i think you understand that its actually much much easier to up the fps cap.
point prooven in the oven inside my bed for about 20 minutes 2 facilitate the evolution of more = less guess
\ / \ / [ ] R K.
basically in a nutshell this should actually proove a . that ive wasted more time here than it would take to up the fps 2 40fps.
every1 knows that 40 fps is the ideal range to track trains down tank track pace moving .obj files.
lesson learnt...within 1 not funny nor entertaining...very boring write along sing along about why i got upset over 40fps GET OVER IT...o wait... i CANT GET OVER iT.
wait never mind panic over...i noticed u made a mistake...its not X u type...maybe thats 1 cheat code, just type 4-0 then the .obj files .collada .collapse on the ground,go DOWN and UP across the screen much better. Gsync...Freesync...who cares...40 fps is like water going down sinks. speaking of which...just eat this 1 food everyday and u wont lag anymore.
2 further re-iterate this is what 240fps is all about...sense..normal behaviour...basic understandings...easy on the eye mentalities.
this is what 200fps on a 240hz monitor is all about...xxxx..xxxxx xxxxxxxx...xxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxx...xxx xx xxx xxx xxxxxxxxx
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
It shouldn't be dependent on a mod or console command anyway, game should just up the cap to the latest monitor frequency. However, reaching that elusive constant 240FPS, that is an entirely story in and of itself
Comments
241 fps max
Also name me one computer config capable of handling NS2 at a constant 240FPS, while we're at it o/
How about 500? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOP500
This is a great idea. This way UWE can fix audio without destroying performance
I hear it's even better if you go down to 24. Really cinematic, apparently.
We do require some motion blur for the frame blending naturally, to get that full movie experience
I M M E R S I O N
Not sure what mip mapping has to do with time, but I agree about motion blur. DOOM does it right (and sustains a ridiculously high frame rate). The game just LOOKS smoother with motion blur enabled.
Some visual enhancements are best left to cinematic stuff and slower paced singleplayer games mostly
mip-mapping and antialiasing do in the spatial domain what motion blur does in the time domain. (Smooth jagged edges caused by the low frequency that the underlying signal is sampled.)
Heh... I've seen this before... Remember that one thread where aliasing was attributed to higher quality/sharpness?
I cap in game /w maxfps cmd at 142fps so i don't cross the 144 Hz max refresh rate on my screen, running G-sync with V-sync off in Nvidia control panel + off in game, i don't want it to disengage G-sync because it cross's the screens 144 Hz threshold. (G-sync turns off automatically if the fps in game goes over your max refresh rate your screen is capable of) G-sync on with out the input lag introduced from V-sync is great. This wouldn't be possible if the didn't have the ability to cap fps in game.
It does the same thing in the time domain as post-aa does in the spatial domain. I absolutely despise 90% of post-aa, and I am not the biggest fan of temporal-aa either.
I really don't think that's true. If you have a velocity vector in the screen buffer, you should be able to almost exactly simulate the effect of a much higher framerate. (This makes me think though, what if it were used for interpolation rather than blurring to actually simulate a much higher framerate? You could predict an approximation of the next frame before it's ready.)
Mip mapping isn't a post effect applied after sampling is performed, it is a downsampling, to the source data which effectively doubles the number of samples for each level. So for example, if you're rendering a 1024x1024 texture into a 256x256 area, you'd need to perform 16 samples per pixel in order to prevent aliasing! But with mip mapping, since that's computed ahead of time, you can just perform ONE sample on the 3rd mip map level. This isn't some cheap post effect.
The temporal AA in DOOM is damn-near flawless.
For a super simple environment, yea probably... but for just about any real-world experiment, that just doesn't work out -- there's just too much missing data (eg a foreground object from previous frame covering the background of the current frame, creating a "hole"). Not to mention, what happens if you turn your view REALLY REALLY fast (as one does with a shotgun in ns2). You'd get large portions of the screen missing because that part of the screen was off-screen in the previous frame.
Yea you could probably fill in the holes with previous frame data... it might look okay.
That's to do with frame timings. In a video they are perfectly lined up frames being shown perfectly in time (usually). Games running at 60FPS might be having some hitching from bad frame timings for all sorts of reasons. Especially if you have say, a 100hz screen but playing at 60FPS.
And the temporal AA in Doom, while still pretty damn good, has issues with moving/complex scenes. People keep trying to find ways around this kind of thing, but you can't generate information from nothing. Also, doesn't temporal AA always have 1 frame of input lag? (I could be wrong)
Ah sorry, didn't read carefully enough.
Yea it's a workaround, a hack. There are always going to be drawbacks to it, but it's far and above better than any other AA implementation I've seen. It's not so much "generating information from nothing" as it is attempting to re-use as much information as it can.
is there anyway for me to alter any files to enable 240fps to see what it truely can perform like?
i would be able to get the 240fps within the marine training level, tbh even at the start of games i can now manage to achieve 200fps thanks to the recent game update.
Realistically i wouldnt expect any kind of fps cap upgrade until the next cpu's come out as at that time it would make sense.
like going from 60 lumins of light up to 100 lumins of Slightly getting weerder already.
its kinda like a troll posting only 60 times a day vs 100 times a day vs belief vs believe me when i say F+U adds up to 27 which is also short for B+G...which adds up to 9 which is...(i) c what (U)......is 21 which 2+1 is (C) what im doing yet? which the CONtents of these brackets once u open the chest u found in my TEXT base[-d-] rP[g b]rackets...SHUT THEM UP, add up to 33 which is c+c+c+c which is L...which is round the bend, witch way is this going?
Anyways...like i was saYTin about the fact he aint white...hes 45 which adds up to DE short 4 words about him being Red when ive just prooved him in the OVEN over night...2 B...ac in a moment. just gotta stair at what im cooking at on the 1st step 4 a 2nd or 0 points if your knot floating along the wall waves.
long and very cool story about why its actually just easier to open up the WINDOW key...inhale...find the round icon with the I c where this is going again icon using your icons situated within your i ball pockets sky rockets......minus frame rate=RL which=3x0=45 which leads us back to i think you understand that its actually much much easier to up the fps cap.
point prooven in the oven inside my bed for about 20 minutes 2 facilitate the evolution of more = less guess
\ / \ / [ ] R K.
basically in a nutshell this should actually proove a . that ive wasted more time here than it would take to up the fps 2 40fps.
every1 knows that 40 fps is the ideal range to track trains down tank track pace moving .obj files.
lesson learnt...within 1 not funny nor entertaining...very boring write along sing along about why i got upset over 40fps GET OVER IT...o wait... i CANT GET OVER iT.
wait never mind panic over...i noticed u made a mistake...its not X u type...maybe thats 1 cheat code, just type 4-0 then the .obj files .collada .collapse on the ground,go DOWN and UP across the screen much better. Gsync...Freesync...who cares...40 fps is like water going down sinks. speaking of which...just eat this 1 food everyday and u wont lag anymore.
2 further re-iterate this is what 240fps is all about...sense..normal behaviour...basic understandings...easy on the eye mentalities.
this is what 200fps on a 240hz monitor is all about...xxxx..xxxxx xxxxxxxx...xxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxx...xxx xx xxx xxx xxxxxxxxx