ns2_refinery_refined

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  • ZavaroZavaro Tucson, Arizona Join Date: 2005-02-14 Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 751 admin
    edited October 2017
    Mephilles wrote: »
    but they made the ceiling walk more reliable in a kind of recent update

    I specifically lowered the lava death trigger upon a previous release and didn't tell anyone for fear of maximum skulk/lerk annoyance during testing. I tested it myself a bit in a few games. Became too hard to track lerks in the room for marines in addition to all the other stuff around the room itself. Felt extremely unfair as a lerk. NERFED
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  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,662 Advanced user
    Zavaro wrote: »
    Nordic wrote: »
    Did you fix that spot without a death trigger in chasm, where there is supposed to be a death trigger. I reported that in the map testing and playtesting refinery threads years ago.

    Damn. I'll get to it.

    I seem to be the only one that knows about it. I have only found use of it when hiding while waiting for the aliens to kill our base. I have hoped that one day I will hide down there when the aliens decide to win by killing every single marine instead of killing the chair.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
  • HandschuhHandschuh Join Date: 2005-03-08 Member: 44338Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 366 Advanced user
    Any big baserushes happening to turbine base? - With that maplayout
  • ZavaroZavaro Tucson, Arizona Join Date: 2005-02-14 Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 751 admin
    Handschuh wrote: »
    Any big baserushes happening to turbine base? - With that maplayout

    This was one of the things I was most worried about, as well as Conduit's (and to a lesser extent Chasm's) sensitivity to the quicker path, especially coupled with that vent. I haven't seen it happen yet, personally, but I've got people on TA nearly all the time telling me what's going on. I don't like Turbine spawn whatsoever, and I'd love to change the room and paths out of it to be beneficial for everyone at some point.
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  • KatzenfleischKatzenfleisch Join Date: 2014-03-21 Member: 194881Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 177 Advanced user
    Nice changes really, a few issues I found when playing:
    Vents not visible for the commander
    smabrctqi1yi.png
    Lava falls visible for the commander, I think they could be hidden
    niysqgky376l.png
    Lava falls feels empty, I think adding something in the line of Mineshaft:Central will be good (as a skulk I would like to use that space above the first floor for parkours or so, atm they can't go throw the room without having to either go to the ceiling or roof)
    r418onkwqo00.png
    Holes in geometry
    y8h99uto4eqp.png
    2eeapaaofwe3.png
    exgs6kvbn2ja.png
    if7ryy71t4g7.png
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  • ZavaroZavaro Tucson, Arizona Join Date: 2005-02-14 Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 751 admin
    Thanks, @Katzenfleisch. Fixed everything that was jarring or nonexistent.

    I like some of those ideas, but I'm not keen on adding back a level to the pillar in Lava, as it was frustrating for marines. Definitely like the Routing idea, though, and it's pretty evident that was that areas intention to begin with. It would require me to rebuild that entire hallway though.

    I fixed the issue with the CommanderInvisible cinematics in Lava, but I'd rather not add the vents to the comm's view just yet. Vents aren't visible in normal Refinery, either.
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  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 926 Advanced user
    always an option to reduce ceiling height right?
    return to zero
  • HandschuhHandschuh Join Date: 2005-03-08 Member: 44338Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 366 Advanced user
    If you cannot see the vent, can you even medpack in there as comm? It isn't unusual for a jp or a sneaky guy to use these vents...
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 753 Advanced user
    Of course you can.
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,442 Advanced user
    Handschuh wrote: »
    If you cannot see the vent, can you even medpack in there as comm? It isn't unusual for a jp or a sneaky guy to use these vents...

    The marine will appear to float to the comm, but medpacks will stick to him just fine.

    In fact, now that you can pick up ammo/meds independent of z levels, you can (theoretically) med people literally anywhere.
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
  • ZavaroZavaro Tucson, Arizona Join Date: 2005-02-14 Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 751 admin
    General

    * Added CollisionGeometry to every railing
    * Removed collideable flag from all railings

    Containment
    * Increased the size of the door to Chasm, added crate for some LOS block and flavor
    * Added skin to forklift model to make it stick out less and feel more refined

    Falls Approach
    * Removed collideable from a set of cables that would block bullets and parasites

    Extraction
    * Raised platform above catwalks to no longer block Onos and Exosuits
    * Removed collideable flag from light on platform above catwalks for smoother movement
    * Removed collideable flag from broken glass Flow window
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    pSyk0mAnIeptBarakatNintendows
  • ZavaroZavaro Tucson, Arizona Join Date: 2005-02-14 Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 751 admin
    Lava Falls

    * Fixed some OcclusionGeometry bugs in Lava Falls

    Exchange

    * Moved the location of the RT to be easier for aliens to hold if Marines start in Containment

    Chasm

    * Expanded area a bit behind the RT in Chasm for easier movement while biting
    CDT Map Testing Lead and NA Playtesting Whip
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    KasharicpSyk0mAn
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,818 admin
    edited November 2017
    Last Sunday, witnessed this hilarity. Lava claims 3 souls in the span of 45 seconds.

    https://youtu.be/01aS4N85pBA
    Vetinari
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,442 Advanced user
    BeigeAlert wrote: »
    Last Sunday, witnessed this hilarity. Lava claims 3 souls in the span of 45 seconds.

    https://youtu.be/01aS4N85pBA

    Man, my voice is so high.

    Also, really nice jumping.

    By you, I mean. Not everybody else.
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

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  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 926 Advanced user
    If your voice is high wat do you call mine?
    return to zero
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,442 Advanced user
    Mephilles wrote: »
    If your voice is high wat do you call mine?

    "regular"
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

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  • ZavaroZavaro Tucson, Arizona Join Date: 2005-02-14 Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 751 admin
    Lava Falls
    * Removed southern Lava Falls RT

    Falls Approach
    * Added RT in new junction

    Generic
    * Changed some small visual tweaks for areas beyond where players can go (black.dds)
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    pSyk0mAn
  • HandschuhHandschuh Join Date: 2005-03-08 Member: 44338Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 366 Advanced user
    In general the map still has a marinevibe to it... played the refined version few rounds with some good ppl, and the marines were always able to lockdown enough RTs till they'll tech up - ending mostly with GL Spam from headsink to Containment
    pSyk0mAn
  • GhoulofGSG9GhoulofGSG9 Join Date: 2013-03-31 Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,817 admin
    edited November 2017
    Short feedback on the current version:
    • The Falls Approach resource node is kinda outside the normal travel routes. So in all rounds i played one team did hold it for more than 5 minutes without the other team really clearing it.
    • Imho Lava Falls still needs some more cover in the air for Lerks. If you have some descent marines in there chances are high you are going to die as Lerk because the pipes only offer very limited cover. And flying below the bridge is not really an option either without taking damage from the lava.

    Otherwise I really enjoy playing the map.
    Developer, Modder and Server Admin of Survival of the Fattest - Ingame Nick: Ghoul
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,763 Advanced user
    Vetinari wrote: »
    Mephilles wrote: »
    If your voice is high wat do you call mine?

    "regular"

    Wrong

    "stoned"

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  • ZavaroZavaro Tucson, Arizona Join Date: 2005-02-14 Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 751 admin
    Handschuh wrote: »
    In general the map still has a marinevibe to it... played the refined version few rounds with some good ppl, and the marines were always able to lockdown enough RTs till they'll tech up - ending mostly with GL Spam from headsink to Containment

    Yeah. I'm pushing an update to make Lava Falls a bit better, but Heatsink/Containment is next on the list. So far Marines starting in Containment has the easiest time in the map. Hopefully my Exchange/south Lava Falls changes should help that, though I haven't had time enough to play it myself.
    Short feedback on the current version:
    • The Falls Approach resource node is kinda outside the normal travel routes. So in all rounds i played one team did hold it for more than 5 minutes without the other team really clearing it.
    • Imho Lava Falls still needs some more cover in the air for Lerks. If you have some descent marines in there chances are high you are going to die as Lerk because the pipes only offer very limited cover. And flying below the bridge is not really an option either without taking damage from the lava.

    Otherwise I really enjoy playing the map.

    I appreciate it, Ghoul.

    Update to alleviate your concerns and the concerns that I've received.

    I'm adding some stuff back in for Lerks and skulks specifically in southern Lava Falls. Pipes, crates, and a new route under the weird-box-thing.
    XjQlUlw.jpg

    I think probably the reason the resource node isn't regularly attacked is just due to people not accustomed to actually using those paths, though I do agree the path has particularly limited use if Marines start in Flow Control (as it enables quick Conduit pushes, but actually slows players a small amount on the way to Chasm).

    I'm considering connecting a vent to it that might make that area a bit better for alien aggression, as well as a plan to open up the room itself (based on some sick unused art from Cory that I found) to speed up travel times, as right now it's a glorified afterthought hodgepodge of a room. I'm more convinced now that southern Lava Falls RT was bad in comparison, though, just given its location and ease of pressure. If anything, "holding it for five minutes" sort of shows that it solved it, just not in the way I want.

    If I do change how the current Falls Appraoch room is, I'll end up flipping Smelting east-west to keep players from being able to ARC from Transit and a newer edition of Falls Approach, which might make Smelting a bit more satisfying as a starting position.

    Lots of ideas.
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  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 321 Advanced user
    With Zavaro's permission, I fixed a few issues with this version of refinery to do with pathing, lighting, collision, and the minimap with ns2_refinery_fine https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1368103194
    pSyk0mAn
  • ZavaroZavaro Tucson, Arizona Join Date: 2005-02-14 Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 751 admin
    Updated for tomorrow's playtest.

    Conduit
    * Changed exit toward Turbine to be less funnelling
    * Added generic terminals to room to help skulks
    * Added additional pipes by the RT to help alien players
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    pSyk0mAn
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 1,702 Advanced user
    Tbh, I'm not a fan of the recent Conduit changes. If anything, those pipe changes at the conduit exit are bad for Aliens, because the LOS for Marines has been improved around those corners.
    The Terminals feel kinda out of place too, in that room and at those spots.
    I would suggest you try something like this to have a big obstacle at the exit of the room, where aliens can go around on all sides.
    cj5bbpa132ch.jpg


  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 3,546 mod
    pSyk0mAn wrote: »
    I would suggest you try something like this to have a big obstacle at the exit of the room, where aliens can go around on all sides.
    cj5bbpa132ch.jpg
    So many pipes..
    -/AUS/- PS_Mouse
  • ZavaroZavaro Tucson, Arizona Join Date: 2005-02-14 Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 751 admin
    Mouse wrote: »
    So many pipes..

    Could use a few more, honestly. I'm still not a big fan of that incredibly long LOS from Turbine to the back of Conduit. Needs a better solution. Replaced with pipe solution for now. Maybe double row of pipes like this, but rotated to block RT los from so far?
    B6iNucT.jpg

    Will go back to drawing board.
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    Handschuh
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