ns2_refinery_refined

ZavaroZavaro Tucson, Arizona Join Date: 2005-02-14 Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 750 admin
edited August 5 in Mapping
Just some updates to Refinery I'd like to test out.

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Workshop link

modid 4657a139

General
* Fixed location names on the minimap being in less than helpful places
* Fixed doorways on minimap not appearing as connected
* Fixed Routing vent not displaying properly on minimap
* Re-layered everything in Editor to be cleaner
* Rebuilt pathing to account for these changes
* Fixed tons of assets set to be pathing excluded
* Made a number of light fixtures collision free to help my fellow alien dudes out
* Added loading screens that are applicable to this map
* Raised all location entities to cover map under CommView/Spectate
* Added secret "Hot Possums" box

Lava Falls
* Added a bunch of props and propped-up walls to make Falls more alien friendly (as before)
* Removed annoying hanging Gorge spot (as before)
* Removed main tower scaffolding (as before)
* Added additional cinematics to each "lava fall" to increase graphical fidelity
* Removed prop collision from "grate props" on ceiling and RT paneling and replaced with CollisionGeometry
* Rotated RT and Power Node to their opposite sides to improve marine visibility

Smelting
* Junk is moved around to better suit the tech point
* Buckets are no longer tied to the cinematic (as before)
* Buckets have collision (as before)
* Buckets have new "cooling lava" texture up top that won't kill you.
* Buckets have been raised from their previous values to allow players with larger models to more easily pass beneath
* Flipped Smelting EW, this is part of a larger strategy to restructure Smelting-Routing-Conduit as well as combat Smelting's terrible ARC susceptibility

Transit
* Same bucket stuff
* Lowered floor in a few areas to allow larger units to pass underneath the buckets
* New cubby added for vent system

Furnace
* New room connection from Falls Approach to Routing called Furnace, lifted from early alphas of the map and modified to fit a new purpose
* Added RT in Furnace
* Yes, lava in this room will also kill you

Turbine
* Removed Turbine as a starting tech point for both teams
* Raised the ceiling to be less claustrophobic
* Added more pipes to the ceiling, giving aliens a bit more cover
* Increased size of the upper platform

Conduit
* Changed exit toward Turbine to be less funnelling
* Added additional pipes by the RT to help alien players

Chasm
* Increased area around RT to be easier for aliens to bite
* Removed ceiling tiles that looked like you could shoot through them but in reality you couldn't (as before)
* Gummed up the hallway leading to Turbine with more stuff to make it a bit more alien friendly (may have caused the opposite, more testing required)

Containment
* Added forklift and fan LOS block from tech point to Lava Falls exit to help aliens a bit more with the open spaces of the room (as before)
* Replaced ceiling tiles that looked like you could shoot through them but in reality you couldn't with props that you can shoot through, along with some ceiling tiles to block bullets up there (as before)
* Added jump sequence onto the large drums to make it easier to shoot aliens hiding up top (as before)

Vents
* Redesigned Conduit-Routing vent
* Added small jump to allow marines into Conduit-Routing vent from Routing
* Chopped up Extraction-Smelting vent, now two vents
* Vent from Extraction now leads to Furnace
* Added small marine jumping sequence to enter Smelting vent
* Added vent to bypass the bucket-train in Transit
* Added Smelting-Furnace vent
* Added little platforms outside of Furnace vents to keep players from dying in lava prematurely

Possible To-Do
* Reposition Lava Falls to Chasm path to better serve Turbine
* Possibly reinstate Turbine as a starting tech point for both sides
* Redesign long lines of sight in Heatsink
* Make Pipeworks more alien-friendly

Thanks @sweetiebot, @Salads, @IronHorse, @pSyk0mAn, @MajorTico, @IeptBarakat, @Kasharic and all the ones I missed.

Suggestions welcome
Post edited by Zavaro on
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Comments

  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 1,701 Advanced user
    I like the change to Chasm, I hope its not too hard for Aliens starting in Containment tho.
    What I always wanted to try with this map:
    vclud75o4pku.jpg
    -An additional corridor from Falls Approach to Routing
    -Vent exit into the hallway before Conduit, so Aliens starting in Smelting have at least a decent chance to defend Conduit RT. Right now its just one long hallway into that room and no short routes to flank and come from Turbine.
    -Also the ceiling area in Containment can be annoying for Marines. Should be easier accessable via jumping routes.


    G_Lock
  • ZavaroZavaro Tucson, Arizona Join Date: 2005-02-14 Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 750 admin
    edited October 2017
    I'm hoping that the Chasm change will be beneficial to both Hives. Part of the problem with that RT is that it could be shot at from pretty much anywhere in the entire room, making it a hassle to hold. If it's problematic, I'll do another rebuild of that room.

    It is the same number of cysts, though, and now you can multi-cyst the RT, which is hugely helpful.

    I like that extra vent idea, I'd probably make it exit into southern Routing, though, so as to avoid that miserable hallway. My plan is to redesign Conduit completely at some point, anyways, but hopefully easier solutions can be tested first.

    Definitely agree with Containment. Not sure what I want to do there, but I can definitely add some smart methods of getting up on top. I'd make them closer to the tech point, though, as I'd rather not have hallway marines able to shoot eggs and aliens from across the gigantic room.
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  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,442 Advanced user
    Zavaro wrote: »
    I like that extra vent idea, I'd probably make it exit into southern Routing, though, so as to avoid that miserable hallway. My plan is to redesign Conduit completely at some point, anyways, but hopefully easier solutions can be tested first.

    I too hope that a less intrusive solution can be found. Conduit is such an iconic part of the map.

    ...to be fair, most parts of the map are pretty iconic. Except for Heatsink, which is one of the most boring areas in any ns2 map. I guess it evens out?
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

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  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 752 Advanced user
    I think Lava Falls is the only iconic part of the map. The rest could easily be replaced.
  • ZavaroZavaro Tucson, Arizona Join Date: 2005-02-14 Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 750 admin
    Vetinari wrote: »
    Zavaro wrote: »
    I like that extra vent idea, I'd probably make it exit into southern Routing, though, so as to avoid that miserable hallway. My plan is to redesign Conduit completely at some point, anyways, but hopefully easier solutions can be tested first.

    I too hope that a less intrusive solution can be found. Conduit is such an iconic part of the map.

    ...to be fair, most parts of the map are pretty iconic. Except for Heatsink, which is one of the most boring areas in any ns2 map. I guess it evens out?

    Conduit would retain its look and feel, it would just be restructured. I definitely like style of the room, too, it's pretty silly themeing.
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  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,817 admin
    Added to SCC. Can't wait to test this out.
  • ZavaroZavaro Tucson, Arizona Join Date: 2005-02-14 Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 750 admin
    edited October 2017
    Another update. Added the vent Psykoman was talking about and a way for marines to get up on top of Containment. A bit confused, I'm having a small problem with builder recognizing a vent. I'll fix it soon enough, regardless: it is playable.

    The map has also been added onto TA House of Awesome! Thanks @AmbivalentAmbiguity
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    Kasharic
  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 923 Advanced user
    some feedback and bug reports from my end:
    50479c3ab4.jpg
    please add a way for marines and onos to get out of this spot and the pipes that are shown on the left

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    those things have a weird collision. The empty space between those 2 arms have collision. You might wanna make those not collidable and add collision geometry to it

    9069aae564.jpg
    missing ceiling in routing
    also the new vent is not in the vent layer yet

    the only other thing that really bugs me about refinery is lava falls. An open big room like that is not good for ns2 gameplay imo. I always though you could split lava falls up into 3 rooms of it's own but since it is a central area I'd probably split it up into 2 rooms with less verticality. Ot atleast deny entrance on second and third floor of the tower.

    Anyway I dislike being in the room no matter what side, class or weapon I have. I feel engagements feel poor in that room.
    return to zero
    IeptBarakatThe_Welsh_Wizard
  • ZavaroZavaro Tucson, Arizona Join Date: 2005-02-14 Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 750 admin
    Alright. Fixed these issues, save for the Onos, Marine stuck one. Don't go Onos there for now?
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    pSyk0mAn
  • G_LockG_Lock Playtester_ FL Join Date: 2013-04-03 Member: 184624Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 121 Advanced user
    edited October 2017
    @pSyk0mAn I really like your idea of connecting Falls Approach to Routing, I've always felt like the map rotations on the bottom right side of the map were massively long for marines before gates go up.
    ja9bmiqb6ms0.png
    Post edited by G_Lock on
  • ZavaroZavaro Tucson, Arizona Join Date: 2005-02-14 Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 750 admin
    edited October 2017
    I may have definitely accidentally deleted the wrong workshop version (as my launchpad keeps making new modids. A new link has been updated in the top thread.

    A comedy of errors, jeez. Publishing this has been wild with all the problems.
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  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 923 Advanced user
    welcome to the club @Zavaro
    return to zero
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 1,701 Advanced user
    I watched some games on TA and thought a bit more about the map and your changes.
    I made some suggestions in spark:
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    Mainly improvements to Containment and Chasm.

    Also I think you should put back that one bucket in Transit next to the entrance of the res node area, where only the holding thingie is hanging right now.
    Seems too open for me now for Aliens defending that RT from Smelting.



  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,760 Advanced user
    It's molten steel?

    @Zavaro, the dasher of dreams :(

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  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 1,701 Advanced user
    ITS LAVA OK






    (..also, awesome changes)


  • ZavaroZavaro Tucson, Arizona Join Date: 2005-02-14 Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 750 admin
    As a now degreed geologist, I can guarantee you that it is not lava.

    That said, welcome the new path.
    aoTQZ8J.png
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  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 1,701 Advanced user
    Good job!

    ..and don't burst my lava bubble ok :p


  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,442 Advanced user
    RIP old lava falls tower, your looks will be missed.

    Looking really good so far, though, cant wait to play it tonight.
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

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  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,760 Advanced user
    edited October 2017
    pSyk0mAn wrote: »
    Good job!

    ..and don't burst my lava bubble ok :p

    Don't listen to this certified professional pSyk0! Clearly, Refinery is a lava production facility!


    *glares at Zavaro*

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  • Richard333Richard333 Join Date: 2017-10-31 Member: 233785Members Posts: 1 Freshly registered user
    Was asked to give my construction critism via someone from the TA 12v12 server on refinery_refined.

    Starting from smelting, the things no logner moving without any real given reason (ie: the rail has no break/bent point, no red lights indicating no power to the rails) ends up as rather immersion breaking.

    Falls approach expansion for some reason just feels off from the rest of the map, it could be due to the general lighting of that area or due to the floors, can't really put my thumb on it.

    All that stuff removed from lava falls just ends up making it feel completely empty as well as turning lava falls into a huge marine shooting range rendering it very hard for aliens to do anything about lava falls stuff, even attacking the RTs there.

    Chasm looks and feels like ???? and is heavily one sided for marines there, although those nooks were something the felt much needed there so good job on those.

    Didn't notice the changes in conduit until I read about them here and saw them mentiond here, although the conduit vent going into routing seems like it could be better instead of just a straight long path, the placement of the vent though is nice.


    All in all the biggest glaring thing is lava falls, it feels and is rather empty and is a giant marine shooting range now. Other than that the rest of the stuff is relatively minor.
    pSyk0mAn
  • ZavaroZavaro Tucson, Arizona Join Date: 2005-02-14 Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 750 admin
    edited October 2017
    Richard333 wrote: »
    Starting from smelting, the things no logner moving without any real given reason (ie: the rail has no break/bent point, no red lights indicating no power to the rails) ends up as rather immersion breaking.

    The things no longer moving was specifically a gameplay change as Transit-Smelting was a pretty frustrating path with large lines of sight and soft-cover in the form of the barrels. They were much more immersion breaking as you could walk through them. I'm considering raising them a slight amount. I like the idea of adding lights though. I'll work on it.
    Falls approach expansion for some reason just feels off from the rest of the map, it could be due to the general lighting of that area or due to the floors, can't really put my thumb on it.

    Eh, that's a visual thing. The old hallways were actually borrowed from an old version of the map and repurposed for the hallway.
    All that stuff removed from lava falls just ends up making it feel completely empty as well as turning lava falls into a huge marine shooting range rendering it very hard for aliens to do anything about lava falls stuff, even attacking the RTs there.

    I plan on adding back some more cover for aliens in Falls tonight in the form of pipes and some crates and LOS blocks. The room is a lot easier for aliens directly by the node from what I've seen.
    Chasm looks and feels like ???? and is heavily one sided for marines there, although those nooks were something the felt much needed there so good job on those.

    I'm leaning on changing it back to how it was, the problem was that the RT in that area was in an equal (if not worse) position, as you could shoot it from everywhere. I might have to completely restructure that room.
    Didn't notice the changes in conduit until I read about them here and saw them mentiond here, although the conduit vent going into routing seems like it could be better instead of just a straight long path, the placement of the vent though is nice.

    I'm currently working on a fix for this.

    Thanks for your feedback!
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  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,661 Advanced user
    Did you fix that spot without a death trigger in chasm, where there is supposed to be a death trigger. I reported that in the map testing and playtesting refinery threads years ago.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 1,701 Advanced user
    edited October 2017
    I agree that Lava Falls feels very empty now. Visuals are kinda bad on the ceiling atm.
    The new res node placement together with the new surrounding geometry is genius tho. It's mostly covered from all sides and yet that area feels still kinda open.


  • ZavaroZavaro Tucson, Arizona Join Date: 2005-02-14 Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 750 admin
    Nordic wrote: »
    Did you fix that spot without a death trigger in chasm, where there is supposed to be a death trigger. I reported that in the map testing and playtesting refinery threads years ago.

    Damn. I'll get to it.
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  • ZavaroZavaro Tucson, Arizona Join Date: 2005-02-14 Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 750 admin
    New update.

    Lava Falls
    * Added a bunch of pipes and ceiling props
    * Added more LOS block from Falls Approach-Lava Platform
    * Removed OP vents underneath platform
    * Raised death triggers
    * Removed "trap" pipes that are in vanilla Refinery death trap, you land on them and you die.
    * Added missing tower and associated platform props to CommanderInvisible
    * Opened up shooting at RT from West side of Lava

    Chasm
    * Reverted Chasm to (near) vanilla Refinery, some fixes and changes still apply
    * Added more stuff to Chasm-Turbine path to help Skulks engage marines in Death Hallway

    Containment
    * Reverted Tech Point location
    * Moved LOS block to cover more of the doorway
    * Still waiting on @BeigeAlert to add me CommanderInvisibleNonCollideable group

    Smelting
    * Raised barrels past height of marine
    * Added new LOS block from Smelting-Routing to Smelting RT

    Transit
    * Raised barrels past height of marine

    Extraction
    * Fixed issues with pathing and multiple layers
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    The_Welsh_WizardpSyk0mAnKasharicIeptBarakat
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 752 Advanced user
    Zavaro wrote: »
    * Still waiting on @BeigeAlert to add me CommanderInvisibleNonCollideable group

    YES PLEASE
    pSyk0mAnKasharic
  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 923 Advanced user
    did no skulk ever try moving through lava falls below the bridge?
    return to zero
    Kouji_San
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,760 Advanced user
    edited October 2017
    Mephilles wrote: »
    did no skulk ever try moving through lava falls below the bridge?

    I used to do the all the time even though it was way more trouble than it's worth. You're too damn slow and there's that risk of getting your buns toasty.

    Wallwalking on a ceiling isn't known for it's reliability, I guess it's in the name :D

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  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 923 Advanced user
    but they made the ceiling walk more reliable in a kind of recent update
    return to zero
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