Alterra research into Precursor Ion Crystal tech produces results

0x6A72320x6A7232 US Join Date: 2016-10-06 Member: 222906Members
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/02/these-scientists-are-turning-radioactive-waste-into-diamond-batteries

5,730 years to drain it to 50% power, and the radioactive stuff is enclosed in a second layer of diamond, which has the nice side effect of BOOSTING power output. Much wow! Very amaze! Head asplode!

Comments

  • phantomfinchphantomfinch West Philadelphia , born and raised on the playground is where I spent most of my days. Join Date: 2016-09-06 Member: 222128Members
    Problem with that is, put the battery in a Samsung and you got a nuclear bomb on your hands.
  • JackeJacke Calgary Join Date: 2017-03-20 Member: 229061Members
    Any amount of Carbon 14, even with other nuclear waste mixed in, even with the fissile isotopes left in (they're usually remove during reprocessing), can't make a nuclear bomb.
  • Hulkie2345Hulkie2345 New York Join Date: 2017-08-23 Member: 232598Members
    This is the purest definition of recycling.
  • MaalterommMaalteromm Brasil Join Date: 2017-09-22 Member: 233183Members
    However they need to bake the graphite before making the battery. I did a quick search but didn't find an answer on how much energy they need to make a single battery, and how long does it take for said battery to provide such energy back (if it ever does).

    If no captain comes to my rescue I'll attempt to find a more through answer later (if I have the time).
  • Hulkie2345Hulkie2345 New York Join Date: 2017-08-23 Member: 232598Members
    I wonder what the cost of these batteries would be.
  • DaveyNYDaveyNY Schenectady, NY Join Date: 2016-08-30 Member: 221903Members
    Could these possibly qualify as a man-made Dilithium Crystal?!?

    :o
  • RecursionRecursion The cosmos Join Date: 2017-07-01 Member: 231505Members
    DaveyNY wrote: »
    Could these possibly qualify as a man-made Dilithium Crystal?!?

    :o

    Who Isn't changing their profile picture for Halloween?
  • AkuMasterofMastersAkuMasterofMasters Join Date: 2017-09-10 Member: 232934Members
  • garathgarath Texas Join Date: 2017-02-08 Member: 227730Members
    I want one

    If you read what @scifiwriterguy said, what you really want is 2,000. As that is very roughly on the order of how many you would need to power your cell phone. :)
  • kingkumakingkuma cancels Work: distracted by Dwarf Fortress Join Date: 2015-09-25 Member: 208137Members
    edited October 2017
    Maalteromm wrote: »
    However they need to bake the graphite before making the battery. I did a quick search but didn't find an answer on how much energy they need to make a single battery, and how long does it take for said battery to provide such energy back (if it ever does).

    Someone call me? Settle in, folks; Science Man has been summoned.

    Now I'm picturing this: as you.
    74zhimbkjzdw.png

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  • orobourosorobouros US Join Date: 2016-04-01 Member: 215163Members
    Nuclear batteries of various designs aren't new, even if this design is. The general idea is always safely contained radioactive material (maybe waste, maybe not) with a stupidly long half-life (at least 100 years, if not more), that generates electricity steadily via interaction with other materials inside its casing.

    Generally speaking, you don't hear about them because they're bulky, and the required shielding makes them bulkier still. I've heard of them being used as backup power for scientific and military installations, especially underground ones since you want to bury the thing for cheap shielding anyway. I'd heard they run on decay of radioactive materials that emit high-energy photons and react with a photo-sensitive layer inside the casing. Basically a self-contained solar power station, though I imagine it's not really "light" it's using as we understand it, despite being technically emitted photons. I've heard of some that use the heat generated as well, to generate low voltages.

    Being this small thanks to this new method makes these exciting, but don't get your hopes up for a permanently-powered cell phone anytime soon. By the time you shield this tiny thing well enough to safely come into contact with human flesh, it'll weigh as much as an office chair.
  • scifiwriterguyscifiwriterguy Sector ZZ-9-Plural Z-α Join Date: 2017-02-14 Member: 227901Members
    edited October 2017
    orobouros wrote: »
    Nuclear batteries of various designs aren't new, even if this design is. The general idea is always safely contained radioactive material (maybe waste, maybe not) with a stupidly long half-life (at least 100 years, if not more), that generates electricity steadily via interaction with other materials inside its casing.

    Generally speaking, you don't hear about them because they're bulky, and the required shielding makes them bulkier still. I've heard of them being used as backup power for scientific and military installations, especially underground ones since you want to bury the thing for cheap shielding anyway. I'd heard they run on decay of radioactive materials that emit high-energy photons and react with a photo-sensitive layer inside the casing. Basically a self-contained solar power station, though I imagine it's not really "light" it's using as we understand it, despite being technically emitted photons. I've heard of some that use the heat generated as well, to generate low voltages.

    Being this small thanks to this new method makes these exciting, but don't get your hopes up for a permanently-powered cell phone anytime soon. By the time you shield this tiny thing well enough to safely come into contact with human flesh, it'll weigh as much as an office chair.

    Actually, this is a radically different design.

    What you're talking about is an RTG - Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator. They come in a variety of sizes, from moderately small (such as the ones used in the Voyager program) to pretty dang bulky (which power Soviet lighthouses), but all operate under the same basic principle: using the decay heat of a radioisotope to produce electricity via thermocouples. It's an incredibly simple design that relies on a radioactive isotope's natural production of heat through radioactive decay. The fuel has to undergo steady, fairly energetic decay. Uranium and plutonium were common fuels.

    These diamond cell batteries are about as different as you can get while still being in the radioactive sphere. Rather than converting thermal energy into electrical energy, a diamond layer is used to capture beta particles (which are really just high-speed electrons). Since diamond is a natural superconductor, you can attach electrodes directly to your "pickup diamond" and harvest those sweet, sweet electrons. Catch enough of them and you have a power source. By encapsulating a fairly energetic beta producer inside a diamond, they're capturing (dang near) 100% of emitted beta particles and routing them into a circuit, minimizing the beta exposure hazard in a very efficient manner.

    The short list of principal differences:
    1. Energy source: RTG - thermal from decay ; DCB - direct conversion of beta particles
    2. Fuel: RTG - Uranium, strontium, some oddballs using americium and other weirdlings ; DCB - Carbon-14
    3. Conversion method: RTG - Thermocouples ; DCB - None, unnecessary
    4. Output: RTG - Exponential decrease, high output/mass ; DCB - Linear decrease, low output/mass
    5. Radiation risk: RTG - Insanely high, in an easily-breakable container ; DCB - Rather low, in a very durable container

    So, end of the day, while we could technically say they're both "radioactive power sources," that's an extreme simplification. The operating principles are very, very different.
  • gamer1000kgamer1000k Join Date: 2017-04-29 Member: 230121Members
    edited October 2017
    This looks like a neat piece of technology, but it's hardly the first small atomic battery. Note that the betavoltaic batteries have been around for 60 years. They were used in pacemakers in the 1970s.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_battery
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betavoltaic_device

    It looks like the new tech here is using carbon-14 nuclear waste to build the cell. Plus, diamond battery makes for a great headline.

  • scifiwriterguyscifiwriterguy Sector ZZ-9-Plural Z-α Join Date: 2017-02-14 Member: 227901Members
    gamer1000k wrote: »
    It looks like the new tech here is using carbon-14 nuclear waste to build the cell. Plus, diamond battery makes for a great headline.

    Quite so, Gamer. :) As a general design, betavoltaics aren't particularly new. Heck, a BV cell was a central plot point in The Terminal Man, and that was published in '72.

    The key difference here - and the major advance - is mating C14 to diamond. The cells in the '70s used sources with (comparatively) very short half-lives. The best they could do was about 12 years. This design uses a slightly weaker source but one with a half-life north of 5,700 years. The endurance improvement is very noteworthy. Add to that the high efficiency inherent in using diamond as both a containment and conversion material and you have something that's based on longstanding engineering but is still a colossal improvement.
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