Actually, no; unlike the reefback, the Sea Dragons are aggressive monsters that are (A) much larger, (B) much louder and (C) much more prone to actively charging anything. The reefbacks are like a large tortoise, who evolved their shells for the explicit purpose of completely blunting large predators from biting first lest they break their teeth/jaws and lose their capacity to hunt properly for months - or even for good, if their jaws don't heal properly.
Simply put, neither of you actually got Halios' point - which is that, again, silent running's functions make more sense than you're giving it credit for if they're mistaking it for something else. If the Cyclops is in it's slow-moving silent running mode, it'll likely be confused as a reefback and therefore ignored as they can't be eaten... but if it's loud and fast, it might get mistaken for a sea dragon and lashed out at in self-defense to try and drive it off.
Likewise, other leviathans like the Ghost and Sea Dragon themselves might not see in any better a spectrum. Example - Say they see in electromagnetic waves or ultraviolet light; silent running blunts that by shutting off or dimming the lights and power-usage.
kingkumacancels Work: distracted by Dwarf FortressJoin Date: 2015-09-25Member: 208137Members
I'm curious why people take the Cyclops into reaper/dragon infested territory in the first place. I just leave my Cyclops on the edge of the biome, and take the seamoth/ prawn in. If i die, at least I respawm closer to my death point. Do you guys do this, or do you drive your Cyclops through the dunes/ILZ? Just curious. Personally, I see no point in taking the Cyclops into the ILZ, As the teleported are much more efficient to getting there. Of course, my base is next to the GUN, so I don't really travel far.
I'm curious why people take the Cyclops into reaper/dragon infested territory in the first place.
Probably because the Seamoth and PRAWN can be grappled and crushed - and if you're spotted, you're hounded for quite some time. The Cyclops can't be grappled (at least not last I checked) and can hide from them in silent running. Also, the "spawn point" aspect is another big reason for it - because depending on where they die, it might be well and aways from the point of interest whereas you'll respawn in the Cyclops right over said point if you die outside it.
As for the teleports, that's only an option if you've already made it into the prison - and to get into the prison, you first have to get into the lava castle/power generator. If you die in the PRAWN that far down, you'd respawn in the Cyclops well and away from it and have to travel all the way back.
To make a long story short, it depends on player-preference; do you want a mobile-but-destroyable spawn point as close to the interest zone as possible, or are you a confident enough pilot to go the whole way in a vehicle that's more-easily-replaceable but without any respawn capability if killed outside of it.
@Tarkannen
I originally wanted to play SN with a controller, but circa July 2016 enabling the option at the menu screen made the mouse inoperable
Good news, my friend. Enabling controller no longer disables the mouse. I play with an XB1 controller on PC and I can use it and the mouse at the same time, no problem.
Regarding what a Reaper thinks is a Reefback or not, when using their sonar, they can probably tell the difference. They're stupid af, yeah, but if they rely on sonar for hunting then it's got to be precise. They'll know that the Cyclops is not a Reefback, but if it's slow-moving they may think of it in the same way, ie. not prey. Like with a Great White taking a chunk out of a surfer. Once they know the surfer is not, in fact, a seal, they're not interested.
However, take a fast-moving Cyclops and the Reaper may well think it's another Reaper and attack to drive it off/defend their territory. They're about the same size, after all. As for trying to drive off a Sea Dragon or Ghost, I don't think they would. In that case the Reaper is the prey and would probably flee. I'm just speculating, of course.
The question of the Cyclops absorbing sound waves is a good one. What's it made out of? Plasteel. What the heck is that and how does it respond to sound? It could have a property of absorbing sound, but if you were really concerned with that you probably wouldn't make the sub all round in the first place. You'd make it angled so that the sound waves are deflected and never get back to the source. (Reaper probably too dumb to realize that there's a hole in the water that no sound comes back from.) Of course, leave it to Alterra to go only half-way with something like that, right?
We all know that it comes down to balancing game mechanics, but it's a fun thought experiment.
Also I want to talk about marine-animal sonar for a moment because I think it's so cool.
A dolphin or an orca or something would never mistake a human for a seal, or a submersible for another animal. Their sonar can be extremely precise, and they can tune so that the sound waves bounce off of bone or internal organs but pass through skin and muscle. Not only do they know you're not a seal, they know your heart rate, how much air you have in your lungs and how close you are to drowning. They know what you had for breakfast. (Well, they can tell if your stomach is full or not.) In any case, they know absolutely that you are not prey.
Of course, lacking human morality they may decide to mess with you anyway, but they're not going to eat you. (Orcas in the wild almost never attack humans, though. I did some research a while back and there's like, one well-documented case of a human being bitten. One.)
But anyway, marine-animal sonar: Really, really cool.
@The08MetroidMan
Aside from our differences, I seem to have played with an old savegame too long, causing wrong and old Cyclops normal sight and sonar vision. Recently I restarted fresh with the Ghost update and now did a Cyclops rerun.
The Cyclops sight is good enough now. No more milky sight that bad to be turned off. Even better with the sonar, which has improved much and is very powerful.
Reminds me to never play with old savegames too long, for getting wrong expressions because there is still old code running in the new game spoiling the day without the player knowing it. I should have seen it coming when people told they could only get 4 of the 6 slots to work even with later build versions. Or since I got weird graphic bugs from old terrain gotten updated in the meantime some months ago.
Well personally with the correct view of the changes there are only 2 major issues with the Cyclops left (maybe only 1 as they are linked a bit):
The inability to tilt and thus see downwards or upwards if you want to travel vertically
Driving in cam mode with leviathans near misses control HUD for quick reaction (engines control, health bar, ...)
Most can be done well now (vertical travel still needing cam mode), but one thing needs some finetuning in my eyes:
I was trying to pass a Ghost leviathan at the Lost River junction and to my annoyance the leviathan roamed only in short circles and thus staying too close inside the bottleneck area to bypass it with the new sound dampening silent running combined with engines off. I could fire a decoy to solve the problem or turn on the shields, but both are more brute force full speed approaches.
This could be solved by widening the roaming path of the Ghost leviathan or making the Cyclops silent running sound dampening a bit more powerful. Or maybe both together.
I'm curious why people take the Cyclops into reaper/dragon infested territory in the first place. I just leave my Cyclops on the edge of the biome, and take the seamoth/ prawn in. If i die, at least I respawm closer to my death point. Do you guys do this, or do you drive your Cyclops through the dunes/ILZ? Just curious. Personally, I see no point in taking the Cyclops into the ILZ, As the teleported are much more efficient to getting there. Of course, my base is next to the GUN, so I don't really travel far.
The reason other then to test how it works is simply that if you make sure that you run a new game the new Cyclops 4.0 code is doing a quite good job of a Cyclops going against a leviathan. Just make sure you are not using an old savegame.
The advantages of the Cyclops 4.0 in dangerous territory (make sure you are upgraded):
Turning the engines off or the shields on will make you immune to the creatures. You never get this immunity from the other vehicles.
The escape speed and silent running as well as the decoys will give you a good escape if you use them properly.
With fire suppression you can take surprise hits until you can act if you keep cool and immediately stop or run with shields.
The Cyclops is the only vehicle that can operate in Warper infested territory without giving you the creeps. It is immune to Warper attacks.
If you don't try to run the Cyclops into whole bunchs of Crabsquids or Ampeels, you should be fine. Only leviathans can harm seriously.
All effects are now togglable and running until power is down. Shields, Sonar, Silent running. No more timelimits and cooldowns.
In fact it makes the Cyclops the number 1 vehicle to explore the deep territories.
The big disadvantages:
There is no good tutorial how to drive and handle the Cyclops.
It takes a long time to learn how to swiftly and properly drive it. And even then it's awkward to control this beast.
And of course it's controls are best played in VR and less good without, unlike with the other vehicles.
Cyclops is fine, so long as you don't drive it into The Void like I did (not knowing what The Void was at the time).
My main problem with it is that once you get the shields it instantly becomes invulnerable. I was expecting the shield to have an energy cost, but it doesn't seem to as far as I can tell?
The sonar on the other hand uses a ludicrous amount of energy.
In addition, you get the shields way before the fire suppression system, making the latter completely redundant since you're already immune to damage.
Cyclops is fine, so long as you don't drive it into The Void like I did (not knowing what The Void was at the time).
My main problem with it is that once you get the shields it instantly becomes invulnerable. I was expecting the shield to have an energy cost, but it doesn't seem to as far as I can tell?
The sonar on the other hand uses a ludicrous amount of energy.
In addition, you get the shields way before the fire suppression system, making the latter completely redundant since you're already immune to damage.
Shields using zero energy is a bug. And I suppose we'll still get more tech polishing, now that the game is more complete.
Don't worry, soon enough we won't have the issue of the cyclops being just plain worse than the seamoth and exosuit (PRAWN is a lame name).
They'll remove the seamoth's ability to dive, make the drill do no damage (protect the sealife!) and "update" their UI's.
The devs hate fun.
I mostly disagree with your quote, but I must agree with this point: the Exosuit's nickname is terrible and not very creative. Pressure Re-Active Waterproof Nanosuit? It's technically an Exosuit, since it's closer in design to a powered exoskeleton: a mechanical suit that augment's the user's mobility, power and strength, but the chassis itself is largely inflexible which provides that endurance. They are not easily damaged and typically are not able to be disassembled, at least insofar to be able to "take off" the arms, legs and/or head.
Nanosuits offer a lot of the same key features (enhanced strength, power, endurance) as exosuits, but the key difference is that usually they are flexible and typically will mold to the user's body. This typically allows for better mobility and dexterity, and can sometimes provide better protection since they cover the user's body better and prevent them from being jossled inside the suit.
Now, there is a bit of a blurring of the line between the two, as variouscompanies are trying to make Exosuits a practical reality. The two sites I linked are using Exosuit designs (equipment worn around the body) but fused with Nanosuit designs (allowing the armor to be more comfortable and more flexible to operate) and are referring to them as "soft exosuits." But the key point here compared to Subnautica is that the Exosuit is a hard mechanical shell powered by machinery and electronics to augment a human's physical abilities. It's not highly technical, it can't interface with a computer system or offer other features such as improved vision or increased healing. Heck, the "nanosuit" itself can't repair any damage it sustains, which seems silly since it's supposedly powered by nanites.
But I've gotten far off tangent... my reason I refuse to call the Exosuit by its nickname is simply this:
SASSY: Selective AcronymS SYndrome. (Oh, that hurt to type out...)
Similar to RAS Syndrome (where acronym letters are redundantly repeated redundantly), SASSY is my pseudo-term where people or companies 'force' an acronym by highlighting incorrect letters or skipping entire words, just to make an acronym "work". The Exosuit nickname is PRWN! "Reactive" is one word, not hyphenated into two! If they insist on using it, rename it to "Pressure Reactive Armored Waterproof Nanosuit" so it fits better!
Since I've run out of points to discuss, here's a stellar Game Theory video regarding how Master Chief's power armor would operate in real life... and how it can kill you!
Not to be pedantic, but the PRAWN isn't even an Exosuit, or any kind of "suit", really. Despite its semi-humanoid, upright posture and chassis, the limbs are not moved directly by the pilot's limbs at all, but via waldoes and other controls. It's just a very compact Walker or Mech, not armor or a suit of any sort.
Put yes, I've always hated the acronym, too. It's on the posters now, so I doubt they'll change it no matter how many people dislike it, though.
Regarding what a Reaper thinks is a Reefback or not, when using their sonar, they can probably tell the difference. They're stupid af, yeah, but if they rely on sonar for hunting then it's got to be precise.
Actually, that's not necessarily true; sonar is just undersea-echolocation - it doesn't have to be articulate enough to distinguish anything beyond shape and motion, and that's without even counting that you'd need at least a decent amount of intelligence to interpret those kinds of in-depth details. Dolphins and orcas are reasonably intelligent, after all - Reapers, according to the PDA scans, are not, hence why they'd be more liable to make mistakes or be fooled.
Comments
Actually, no; unlike the reefback, the Sea Dragons are aggressive monsters that are (A) much larger, (B) much louder and (C) much more prone to actively charging anything. The reefbacks are like a large tortoise, who evolved their shells for the explicit purpose of completely blunting large predators from biting first lest they break their teeth/jaws and lose their capacity to hunt properly for months - or even for good, if their jaws don't heal properly.
Simply put, neither of you actually got Halios' point - which is that, again, silent running's functions make more sense than you're giving it credit for if they're mistaking it for something else. If the Cyclops is in it's slow-moving silent running mode, it'll likely be confused as a reefback and therefore ignored as they can't be eaten... but if it's loud and fast, it might get mistaken for a sea dragon and lashed out at in self-defense to try and drive it off.
Likewise, other leviathans like the Ghost and Sea Dragon themselves might not see in any better a spectrum. Example - Say they see in electromagnetic waves or ultraviolet light; silent running blunts that by shutting off or dimming the lights and power-usage.
Probably because the Seamoth and PRAWN can be grappled and crushed - and if you're spotted, you're hounded for quite some time. The Cyclops can't be grappled (at least not last I checked) and can hide from them in silent running. Also, the "spawn point" aspect is another big reason for it - because depending on where they die, it might be well and aways from the point of interest whereas you'll respawn in the Cyclops right over said point if you die outside it.
As for the teleports, that's only an option if you've already made it into the prison - and to get into the prison, you first have to get into the lava castle/power generator. If you die in the PRAWN that far down, you'd respawn in the Cyclops well and away from it and have to travel all the way back.
To make a long story short, it depends on player-preference; do you want a mobile-but-destroyable spawn point as close to the interest zone as possible, or are you a confident enough pilot to go the whole way in a vehicle that's more-easily-replaceable but without any respawn capability if killed outside of it.
Good news, my friend. Enabling controller no longer disables the mouse. I play with an XB1 controller on PC and I can use it and the mouse at the same time, no problem.
However, take a fast-moving Cyclops and the Reaper may well think it's another Reaper and attack to drive it off/defend their territory. They're about the same size, after all. As for trying to drive off a Sea Dragon or Ghost, I don't think they would. In that case the Reaper is the prey and would probably flee. I'm just speculating, of course.
The question of the Cyclops absorbing sound waves is a good one. What's it made out of? Plasteel. What the heck is that and how does it respond to sound? It could have a property of absorbing sound, but if you were really concerned with that you probably wouldn't make the sub all round in the first place. You'd make it angled so that the sound waves are deflected and never get back to the source. (Reaper probably too dumb to realize that there's a hole in the water that no sound comes back from.) Of course, leave it to Alterra to go only half-way with something like that, right?
We all know that it comes down to balancing game mechanics, but it's a fun thought experiment.
A dolphin or an orca or something would never mistake a human for a seal, or a submersible for another animal. Their sonar can be extremely precise, and they can tune so that the sound waves bounce off of bone or internal organs but pass through skin and muscle. Not only do they know you're not a seal, they know your heart rate, how much air you have in your lungs and how close you are to drowning. They know what you had for breakfast. (Well, they can tell if your stomach is full or not.) In any case, they know absolutely that you are not prey.
Of course, lacking human morality they may decide to mess with you anyway, but they're not going to eat you. (Orcas in the wild almost never attack humans, though. I did some research a while back and there's like, one well-documented case of a human being bitten. One.)
But anyway, marine-animal sonar: Really, really cool.
Aside from our differences, I seem to have played with an old savegame too long, causing wrong and old Cyclops normal sight and sonar vision. Recently I restarted fresh with the Ghost update and now did a Cyclops rerun.
The Cyclops sight is good enough now. No more milky sight that bad to be turned off. Even better with the sonar, which has improved much and is very powerful.
Reminds me to never play with old savegames too long, for getting wrong expressions because there is still old code running in the new game spoiling the day without the player knowing it. I should have seen it coming when people told they could only get 4 of the 6 slots to work even with later build versions. Or since I got weird graphic bugs from old terrain gotten updated in the meantime some months ago.
Well personally with the correct view of the changes there are only 2 major issues with the Cyclops left (maybe only 1 as they are linked a bit):
Most can be done well now (vertical travel still needing cam mode), but one thing needs some finetuning in my eyes:
I was trying to pass a Ghost leviathan at the Lost River junction and to my annoyance the leviathan roamed only in short circles and thus staying too close inside the bottleneck area to bypass it with the new sound dampening silent running combined with engines off. I could fire a decoy to solve the problem or turn on the shields, but both are more brute force full speed approaches.
This could be solved by widening the roaming path of the Ghost leviathan or making the Cyclops silent running sound dampening a bit more powerful. Or maybe both together.
The reason other then to test how it works is simply that if you make sure that you run a new game the new Cyclops 4.0 code is doing a quite good job of a Cyclops going against a leviathan. Just make sure you are not using an old savegame.
The advantages of the Cyclops 4.0 in dangerous territory (make sure you are upgraded):
In fact it makes the Cyclops the number 1 vehicle to explore the deep territories.
The big disadvantages:
My main problem with it is that once you get the shields it instantly becomes invulnerable. I was expecting the shield to have an energy cost, but it doesn't seem to as far as I can tell?
The sonar on the other hand uses a ludicrous amount of energy.
In addition, you get the shields way before the fire suppression system, making the latter completely redundant since you're already immune to damage.
Shields using zero energy is a bug. And I suppose we'll still get more tech polishing, now that the game is more complete.
Not to be pedantic, but the PRAWN isn't even an Exosuit, or any kind of "suit", really. Despite its semi-humanoid, upright posture and chassis, the limbs are not moved directly by the pilot's limbs at all, but via waldoes and other controls. It's just a very compact Walker or Mech, not armor or a suit of any sort.
Put yes, I've always hated the acronym, too. It's on the posters now, so I doubt they'll change it no matter how many people dislike it, though.
Actually, that's not necessarily true; sonar is just undersea-echolocation - it doesn't have to be articulate enough to distinguish anything beyond shape and motion, and that's without even counting that you'd need at least a decent amount of intelligence to interpret those kinds of in-depth details. Dolphins and orcas are reasonably intelligent, after all - Reapers, according to the PDA scans, are not, hence why they'd be more liable to make mistakes or be fooled.
Reapers are pretty stupid, though, and desperate animals will often strike a predator if they think they can drive them off.