Gorge Movement Mechanic

MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 871 Advanced user
After briefly discussing it with @BeigeAlert on discord, we came across that gorges should have a way to get to higher speeds as an escape. This would encourage gorges to play more agressively and I think that would add quite a bit of depths and fun to the gorge.

NSL Competitive Mod already has a mechanic like that in place but requires some movement skill to do correctly, which is not optimal if we want a movement mechanic that is easy to grasp so rookies can learn them quite easily.

Purpose of this thread is to ask for suggestions on how to realise a gorge movement mechanic (preferably with belly slide) that would allow gorges to increase their speed to escape from marines more easily.

Here are some reference videos on how it works in compmod atm:
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Comments

  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 680 Advanced user
    edited April 2017
    Ever since I've read about the clog+bellyslide combo, I'm actively using it. It's a very neat trick, and it should be described somewhere during the tutorials (put one clog in front and start bellysliding on it, it gives you bonus momentum for elevation difference).

    But if you want a more advanced getaway ability, why not repurpose the old fade vortex for gorges? Idk in which upgrade+weapon slot it could fit, but disappearing gorges would be awesome :D
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  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 653 Advanced user
    Mephilles wrote: »
    NSL Competitive Mod already has a mechanic like that in place but requires some movement skill to do correctly, which is not optimal if we want a movement mechanic that is easy to grasp so rookies can learn them quite easily.

    Oh no, it requires some movement skill to do! Yea, better reduce the skill ceiling of the game to a minimum, right?
    As long as comp mod keeps its current movement, I don't really care though.

    BestProfileNameKasharicHandschuh
  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Members, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 1,014 Advanced user
    edited April 2017
    Make them bounce like gummi bears, please.

    You'd just have to press space bar once and uncontrollably bounce all over the place for a minute or so. That should be enough time for reinforcements to arrive.

    Easy to use, hard to master, because only few will know when to do dat jump.

    twiliteblue
  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver Posts: 4,378 Advanced user
    Ever since NS1 I have detested any sort of bunnyhop. (And yes I did them, it was sort of required to even be able to gorge.)
    Same for NS2 sadly.. I dont get this need for weird jump mechanics to gain speed, breaking my fingers to do it.

    On the topic of speed, you can do the belly/clog or belly/structure speed trick just as well to gain and maintain speed in both vanilla and comp, and it mixes with the comp bhop.. although, hard to make the timings.
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  • Legend_BossLegend_Boss UK Join Date: 2014-02-27 Member: 194394Members Posts: 123 Advanced user
    How about jumping and pressing shift (to belly slide) that causes a clog to drop below the gorge (while in the air) and when the gorge falls/land, he automatically has that speed boost.

    Requires nothing new, can simply be taught to jump and belly slide to get away faster.

    If a gorge starts a belly slide while on a clog, this should have the same effect.

    This type of movement should have a slighted speed boost than normal belly without a clog
    .trixX.
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,398 Advanced user
    How about making it so that placing clogs doesnt require pressing two far away buttons so placing one when you need it quickly is easier?
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  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,557 Advanced user
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
  • twilitebluetwiliteblue bug stalker Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 1,978 Advanced user
    edited April 2017
    Vetinari wrote: »
    How about making it so that placing clogs doesnt require pressing two far away buttons so placing one when you need it quickly is easier?

    I wish that placing a new Clog after exceeding the build limit destroys the last placed Clog, instead of the earliest one. That would make Clog Sliding much likely to break any existing Clog towers/ladders!

    I support simple mechanisms that are easy to discover and consistent with the overall feel of the class (unlike comp mod Gorge jumping), but difficult to execute perfectly all the time.
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members Posts: 629 Advanced user
    Vetinari wrote: »
    How about making it so that placing clogs doesnt require pressing two far away buttons so placing one when you need it quickly is easier?

    I wish that placing a new Clog after exceeding the build limit destroys the last placed Clog, instead of the earliest one. That would make Clog Sliding much likely to break any existing Clog towers/ladders!.

    That would also make it much harder to destroy your clog ladder before the marines can use it to kill you.

    I like how it works now, though if we could destroy a clog by just looking at it and holding a key instead of having to be RIGHT on top of it that would be an improvement.
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  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 871 Advanced user
    @twiliteblue do you think performing a clog slide, mid-combat is actually easier and more simple to perform than the gorge bunnyhop? Also what do you mean with consistent overall feel of the class? How does the bunnyhop fail on that?

    @Vetinari key combination for playing a clog is 2-2-leftclick. Seeing how 2 is directly above W I don't get what you mean with "2 far away keys"
    return to zero
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  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,398 Advanced user
    Mephilles wrote: »
    @twiliteblue do you think performing a clog slide, mid-combat is actually easier and more simple to perform than the gorge bunnyhop? Also what do you mean with consistent overall feel of the class? How does the bunnyhop fail on that?

    @Vetinari key combination for playing a clog is 2-2-leftclick. Seeing how 2 is directly above W I don't get what you mean with "2 far away keys"

    Last time I played gorge, which was admittedly... years ago, all the structures were on 5-x.

    That's still three keystrokes, though.
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  • WobWob Join Date: 2005-04-08 Member: 47814Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 482 Advanced user
    Gorge *needs* more mobility and more accessibility to contribute to team fights. It's a tragedy that many low skilled people feel the need to go gorge because they aren't good enough to contribute as other lifeforms, but are then hard capped in their contributions by poor combative mechanics on offer for the gorge.

    It also imbalances the game in that marines can essentially outnumber the alien players on the field because gorges are more concerned about gardening because of their lack of mobility in combat.

    Even if it meant reducing the friction (deceleration) of belly slide and increasing the agility (turning circle) and not changing any of the mechanics so it's easy to use.
    2coughMephillesBicsum
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,398 Advanced user
    give belly slide a nitro boost
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  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 871 Advanced user
    btw the reduction of bellyslide friction + the increase of the air control value as wob mentioned is exactly how the gorge bunnyhop mechanic was born. Well this and reduced air friction for gorge.
    Gorge air friction reduced, and now depends on velocity
    Gorge air control increased to 30 from 8
    Gorge belly slide friction off-infestation increased to 0.2 from 0.1
    return to zero
    BicsumHandschuh
  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 3,472 mod
    Vetinari wrote: »
    give belly slide a nitro boost

    Gorges need a "blue sparks" boost for the belly slide.
    -/AUS/- PS_Mouse
    WobmoultanoBeigeAlertVetinari
  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,560 Advanced user
    Am I the only one around here who has trouble catching runaway gorges as-is? And we want to buff them? Noooooooo thank you.

    I hate gorges.
    To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to play Natural Selection 2. The gameplay is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of military strategy and advanced mathematics you won't even win a single game. Theres also the game's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into the game. The maps and artwork draw heavily from Riddley Scott's Alien franchise, for instance. The players understand this stuff, they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depth of the game, to realise that it's not just great, that it also says something about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Natural Selection 2 truly ARE idiots. of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in the Marines' existential catchphrase "how do I get to be so good", which itself is a cryptic reference to the high degree of intelligence required to play the game as intended. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion when spectating a game. What fools... how I pity them. And, yes, by the way, i DO have a Fade tatoo. And no, you cannot see it. it's for the ladies' eyes only, and even then they have to demonstrate that they are within 50 hive skill points of my own (preferable lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid.
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  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,782 admin
    Am I the only one around here who has trouble catching runaway gorges as-is? And we want to buff them? Noooooooo thank you.

    I hate gorges.

    Eh... I guess so. Personally I feel like it's too hard to contribute offensively as a gorge, especially when your teammates abandon you, which happens all the time ofc... you get gunned down so easily... but then again I'm a stubborn battle-gorge, so... ;)
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members Posts: 629 Advanced user
    Am I the only one around here who has trouble catching runaway gorges as-is? And we want to buff them? Noooooooo thank you.

    I hate gorges.

    As someone who sucks on marine and has shit accuracy... Most "runaway Gorges" seem kinda easy to kill... Unload your clip into them then switch to pistol to chip down that last sliver of health before they escape.

    Gorge is about the only alien lifeform I can successfully kill on a consistent basis. (Should change my name to Gorge hunter when on marine lol)


  • lewispgjlewispgj Join Date: 2017-05-25 Member: 230754Members Posts: 2 Freshly registered user
    This would be great!
  • CavalCaval Join Date: 2017-06-17 Member: 231145Members Posts: 3 Fully active user
    Mephilles wrote: »
    After briefly discussing it with @BeigeAlert on discord, we came across that gorges should have a way to get to higher speeds as an escape. This would encourage gorges to play more agressively and I think that would add quite a bit of depths and fun to the gorge.

    NSL Competitive Mod already has a mechanic like that in place but requires some movement skill to do correctly, which is not optimal if we want a movement mechanic that is easy to grasp so rookies can learn them quite easily.

    Purpose of this thread is to ask for suggestions on how to realise a gorge movement mechanic (preferably with belly slide) that would allow gorges to increase their speed to escape from marines more easily.

    Here are some reference videos on how it works in compmod atm:


    I tried ot bind spacebar on scroll down and up with Autohotkey but it doesnt seem to work, the game is probably preventing me from doing it, do you have any idea? I am used to CS GO scroll up/down Bhop
  • HandschuhHandschuh Join Date: 2005-03-08 Member: 44338Members Posts: 312 Advanced user
    Well in ns2 you have to keep pressing the button down.. to get the prrfect jump in order to not loose speed..
    I've tested it with autohotkey for 100-200ms.. it works, but I couldn't get the feeling like it was in ns1.. since you need several jumps in a row really for wallhopping fast it's not very practical..
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