Female character

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Comments

  • GreybeardGreybeard USA Join Date: 2016-09-24 Member: 222538Members
    As a 43 year old who has played D&D, video games, TCGs and countless other game types, in the fantasy genre THERE ARE PLENTY OF SCANTILY CLAD MEN. Conan is fine example. Beefcakes are nothing new.

    I've also seen women characters wearing full plate. While I won't deny that gaming is dominated by males, I would be willing to say those complaining about a lack of half-naked men, simply haven't been exposed to A LOT of what the fantasy genre offers; be that games, fiction books, or things of the like. Not every male character is fully swathed in Wizard robes or tucked into a huge set of plate armor.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    Skope wrote: »
    Just came back to this thread.

    Honestly, it didn't explode as much as I thought it would.

    At this point, I thought people would be choosing sides, preparing for a full on flame war.

    Good job people, you're better than reddit users.
    I just read through a 38 page "discussion" on whether light was the fastest thing in the universe.

    It got ugly.
    Pfft everyone knows the Flash is the fastest thing in the Universe!
  • pie1055pie1055 Join Date: 2016-12-05 Member: 224603Members
    edited February 2017
    It would not be a simple model swap. The same animations cannot be used. Have you seen female models being animated on male rigs(mans1ay3r's gamer poop series comes to mind)? Believe it or not females have different body proportions than males and these differences in size and shape mean movements happen differently as well. If the same animations are used all sorts of weirdness can ensue beyond looking bad and actually affecting gameplay. Imagine piloting a seamoth with hands that are blocking your view. Holding your PDA where a thumb or something is blocking what one of your items are, or the PDA is just floating in space because the hand no longer reaches it because the wrist bone needs to be moved, etc. If we are to accept that new animations are necessary let's look at what animations are needed (TL;DR- it's a long list);

    Standing Idle loop
    Bringing up PDA
    Holding PDA loop
    Putting down PDA
    Above PDA animations underwater(so your feet aren't standing on nothing)
    Above PDA animations in mid-air(so your feet aren't standing on nothing while falling to your death)
    Idle to Walking forward transition
    Walking forward loop
    Walking forward to Idle transition
    3x the above 3 lines for left, right, and backwards
    Diving into water from above it
    Diving into water from lifepod hatch
    Diving into water from Cyclops
    Diving into water from Seamoth
    Diving into water from Prawn suit
    Leaving water from surface
    Leaving water through lifepod hatch
    Leaving water through Cyclops hatch
    Leaving water through Seamoth hatch
    Leaving water through Prawn suit hatch
    Entering upper lifepod hatch
    Exiting lifepod through upper hatch
    Swimming Idle loop
    Beginning to swim forwards
    Swimming forward loop
    Ending swimming forwards
    5x the above 3 lines for left, right, backwards, up, and down
    UNKx the above 5 lines for every item that you can see in first person
    Also the same for Idle, Walking, Diving, and Leaving the water with every item
    Seamoth Idle
    Seamoth beginning to steer right
    Seamoth steering right loop
    Seamoth returning to Idle from steering right
    3x the above 3 lines for steering left, up, and down
    All the Seamoth stuff again for the Cyclops
    All the Seamoth stuff again for the Prawn Suit

    This list is getting a bit long so I'll try to wrap it up...

    Generic Pain animations a thing? Would have to account for if above or below water and possibly moving in any direction.
    Special animations like;
    - Bleeder latching on to the player
    - Bleeder sucking the player's blood loop
    - Attacking the bleeder animation
    - Possibly different animations depending on what item is being held in first person
    - Bleeder being detached from player
    - The Reaper Leviathan grabbing the player by themselves, in seamoth, and in prawn suit
    - The same for the Sea Dragon Leviathan Emperors/whatever


    I may be wrong about some of these animations, but the idea is to get an idea of the scope behind how much work goes into just animating a character.

    Granted a lot of those animations may not need to be created from scratch and the existing male ones might work just fine for others, but they all still need to be tested to make sure that is the case. Furthermore I'm certain there's plenty of other animations I'm forgetting. I'm already recalling that the player interacts with certain objects like lockers and some items have their own uses, like swinging the knife or scanning with the scanner. A lot of the animations are simply transitions and I know you can use blending to have the game create them for you automatically but once again you have to test to make sure it's working correctly, which still earns them a spot on somebody's checklist and still takes time. Depending on how they do it all of these animations may need to be done a second time for a third-person model of the character as well. The way I'm thinking you would be using the third-person model would be in order to cast shadows. This would also be required if multiplayer ever became a thing(probably one of the reasons against it).

    Source; 2.5 years studying game development while working on a bachelors in computer science, made a 3D game and engine from scratch in C++ in the last five months(with a team of four others, of course).

    On the whole gender/sex thing, should be an option. Sooner would be better than later but eventually is better than never. Haters gonna hate. I'm sure the playable character gender thing has been discussed thousands if not millions of times before and I don't like complicating it with issues of politics, genetics, and socioeconomic concerns. Give it as an option and there should be no need for an argument or a quota or equality, just your choice.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    TBH, the male protagonist is a bit on the feminine side though in how he moves and looks :tongue:
  • Mr_EndarMr_Endar Join Date: 2016-03-05 Member: 213859Members
    edited February 2017
    So you're implying this hugely popular engine called Unity is incapable of reusing animation graphs from a similar model already in game, which is completely finished for both first person and thirdperson? It's not like this lady has all kinds of different limbs or weird stuff which would require a completely new animation. Or is it all stuck on boob physics, are they really that hard to animate
    men and women have completely different animations. re-using won't work. so you'll have to re-do all existing player animations (and when I thought of UI I thought of these animations as well).

    animating humans is very hard. this is the thing we have hardwired in our brains: if something looks like human, it have to move like human, and the more human-looking that thing is, the more realistic animations must be, otherwise it would look very creepy.

    this is the reason why cartoons and many games - e.g. Team Fortress 2 - have characters with very unhuman bodies: our brain doesn't expect something that doesn't look like human to move like human, so developers can get away with unrealistic animations.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    But... As I said... This guy moves like a girl, here have some Aerosmith Dude!
  • starkaosstarkaos Join Date: 2016-03-31 Member: 215139Members
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Skope wrote: »
    Just came back to this thread.

    Honestly, it didn't explode as much as I thought it would.

    At this point, I thought people would be choosing sides, preparing for a full on flame war.

    Good job people, you're better than reddit users.
    I just read through a 38 page "discussion" on whether light was the fastest thing in the universe.

    It got ugly.
    Pfft everyone knows the Flash is the fastest thing in the Universe!

    And he regrets it every day.
  • EnglishInfidelEnglishInfidel Canada Join Date: 2016-07-04 Member: 219533Members
    Mr_Endar wrote: »
    So you're implying this hugely popular engine called Unity is incapable of reusing animation graphs from a similar model already in game, which is completely finished for both first person and thirdperson? It's not like this lady has all kinds of different limbs or weird stuff which would require a completely new animation. Or is it all stuck on boob physics, are they really that hard to animate
    men and women have completely different animations. re-using won't work. so you'll have to re-do all existing player animations (and when I thought of UI I thought of these animations as well).

    animating humans is very hard. this is the thing we have hardwired in our brains: if something looks like human, it have to move like human, and the more human-looking that thing is, the more realistic animations must be, otherwise it would look very creepy.

    this is the reason why cartoons and many games - e.g. Team Fortress 2 - have characters with very unhuman bodies: our brain doesn't expect something that doesn't look like human to move like human, so developers can get away with unrealistic animations.

    Have you seen the player character? He doesn't look anywhere near human. He looks like a horrible alien nightmare.

    So maybe they could indeed use the same animation.
  • Morph_GuyMorph_Guy Join Date: 2016-04-21 Member: 216034Members
    The devs have said that they would have to make new animations.
  • fallennight1986fallennight1986 texas Join Date: 2016-12-21 Member: 225320Members
    "1 subnautica montage later"
  • Mr_EndarMr_Endar Join Date: 2016-03-05 Member: 213859Members
    Have you seen the player character? He doesn't look anywhere near human. He looks like a horrible alien nightmare.

    So maybe they could indeed use the same animation.
    fair point

    maybe its constant feature creep, 60+h weeks, unpaid overtimes and week-ends wasted in office made me super paranoid about adding any new non-critical feature in anything
  • CaptainFearlessCaptainFearless CO, US Join Date: 2016-12-14 Member: 224941Members
    The main character does look like an alien, or starved. But I am kinda fine with it, but I think making a female character would be really cool, add more immersion and equality.
  • AzirahaelAzirahael New Zealand Join Date: 2017-12-14 Member: 234419Members
    Currently the female model is listed as 'Maybe/DLC'

    Which is not conclusive, but does suggest to me that it's been relegated to 'even lower priority/never.'


    Pretty sure, based on the hate and the general dev's apparent attitude, that this is not likely to ever happen.
  • 0x6A72320x6A7232 US Join Date: 2016-10-06 Member: 222906Members
    Azirahael wrote: »
    Currently the female model is listed as 'Maybe/DLC'

    Which is not conclusive, but does suggest to me that it's been relegated to 'even lower priority/never.'


    Pretty sure, based on the hate and the general dev's apparent attitude, that this is not likely to ever happen.

    If I were a betting man (or woman), I wouldn't bet on that.
  • MaalterommMaalteromm Brasil Join Date: 2017-09-22 Member: 233183Members
    Azirahael wrote: »
    Currently the female model is listed as 'Maybe/DLC'

    Which is not conclusive, but does suggest to me that it's been relegated to 'even lower priority/never.'


    Pretty sure, based on the hate and the general dev's apparent attitude, that this is not likely to ever happen.

    I don't think it is about attitude, it's probably about priority.
    Defining sex of a silent first person character without background history is almost futile. In fact, how can one be sure it's actually a male we are playing with?
  • kingkumakingkuma cancels Work: distracted by Dwarf Fortress Join Date: 2015-09-25 Member: 208137Members
    There's a picture of they player on sketchfab. And you can see yourself in the scanner room, if you want to.
  • JarinJarin Los Angeles Join Date: 2013-12-16 Member: 190184Members
  • SerinexxaSerinexxa Jesusland Join Date: 2017-12-18 Member: 234481Members
    edited December 2017
    Considering this thread has essentially been "Nekro'd" I may as well make my own statement.

    For those saying it doesen't matter outside of third person, let me put it this way; For a first-person exploration game like Subnautica I feel immersion is important. If the player model supposedly doesn't matter outside of third person, would it matter if we replaced the player model with Barney the Dinosaur? Would you feel even more terrified and immersed swimming away from a reaper, as the purple tail glides behind the fins? A bit absurd of an example I know, but merely making a point. The protagonist is more immersive than Barney there, because he's more relateable and it's easier to invision yourself in the situation. It's less like watching a video of the Reaper attack, and more like being in it.

    I don't care about third person, because my goal here is enhanced immersion. My goal is to put myself in her shoes, not to stare at her backside. In a game like Ratchet and Clank where it's constantly third person and the character doesn't really represent you, it's not really a goal or a factor.

    As another example, when dreaming, I'm often able to tell it's just a dream when I'm not "me". It doesen't matter if it's raining bananas or I'm getting attacked by ninjas, I won't often wake up. But the moment I'm not "me"? I wake up. Because my mind clearly tells me I'm not a duck, or a robot, etc, noting it long before the absurdities happening around me kick in.

    As far as animations go, could implement the model and update it as the animations better fit the skeleton. It's not absurd to have a placeholder every now and then, especially in an early access game.

    (Also yes, representation is nice. I would have realized I loved games a lot sooner if there was more of it)

    I'm glad the model is being worked on, and it's honestly my most anticipated update other than the DNA transfuser. (For science!)
  • NovaXNovaX Join Date: 2017-08-28 Member: 232699Members
    My answer depends entirely on this one question. In theory, if our sharks can do it. Could bone/sand sharks sense period blood? cause that would add an entire other layer of difficulty to the game.
  • SnailsAttackSnailsAttack Join Date: 2017-02-09 Member: 227749Members
    NovaXNazi wrote: »
    My answer depends entirely on this one question. In theory, if our sharks can do it. Could bone/sand sharks sense period blood? cause that would add an entire other layer of difficulty to the game.
    that's a question i never knew i wanted an answer to but am too lazy to google. thanks
  • CryoconCryocon Ohio Join Date: 2017-10-20 Member: 233632Members
    edited December 2017
    I was going to suggest that human blood might actually be offensive to alien bio-chemistries. Then I remembered that cave crawlers seem to have no problem consuming human organic matter. So...interesting question Nova.
  • AbildgaardAbildgaard Danmark Join Date: 2018-01-21 Member: 235324Members
    edited February 2018
    I think this whole discussion is BS. The developer decides what they want to make. If you dont like it, dont play it. If this game was not so popular, women would not give a sh*t. However as this is not the case, it is made political and the mob with torches and pitchforks DEMAND (it has become a shitstorm) that the developer change their game nomatter how easy or hard it is. Mobrule.... -and i dont care if the protagonist is male or female. I would still play the game!
  • JarinJarin Los Angeles Join Date: 2013-12-16 Member: 190184Members
    Once-a-bloody-'gain...
    MTG-ThreadNecromancer_3198.jpg
  • FoxyFoxy United Kingdom Join Date: 2014-08-19 Member: 198032Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow
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