This devolved into a balance for the top skill level (wob) vs keep all skill levels in mind while balancing argument rather quickly.
Is it viable for Wob? Yes.
Is it viable for everyone? Few parts are viable for a strong majority of the community.
The impossible question, as with most things in NS2, is how do we make exo's viable for even a larger minority of players without making exo's OP broken for wob?
I would say give exo a small self armor regeneration and slightly reduce their health accordingly so that if your team is too dumb to weld (talking experience here) you still remain operational
Ironhorse so what do you propose to make it more viable WITHOUT making it op because as wob showed it's definitely not underpowered?
I'm more interested in getting a pulse on perception from the community before suggesting things publicly, as it can highlight unconsidered aspects.
But if I were to throw something in the wild suggestion box without much thought as of right now, I tend towards the idea of more armor for less DPS output, proportionately, with a slight increase in speed.
The initial idea being to lower the skill floor by increasing survivability, without making good shots more effective, and then to alleviate the need to sit in a hallway camping. You'd be more mobile (no more 4 speed backpedaling) in combat and could take more damage, therefore you'd probably participate in pushes more. I predict the mentality would change regarding playing the role, even with a decreased DPS output.
Right now I see the exo in a somewhat quasi glass cannon state, where it's relatively easy to take down for a vet in terms of TTK and speed, but it has unbelievable DPS potential. I'm not saying my suggestion would work, or that it's even possible or without massive repercussions.. but since you're asking me before I have fully assessed the feedback, that's my early line of thinking.
Shift the role : make it less situational, more accessible, less exploitable.
The hardest part about dual railguns is getting the right rhythm going, which @Wob seems to have done excellently I would say. Personally though, I was never able to use dual railguns effectively.
In order for railguns in general to be effective without being broken for players like @Wob , they need to be better at fulfilling some other strategic role, as opposed to having accuracy alone determining it's effectiveness.
@IronHorse Exo is more like a hero unit than a glass cannon unit. It's a pricey toy that you must earn and that should be very powerful just like an onos if your team gets onosballed why couldnt the same logic be applied for exoballed?
I dont think it's a very smart idea to balance a inately competitive game around average players incompetence.
And I don't think its a very smart idea to balance a game around what only 10% of your customer base can realistically accomplish.
You should balance around what CAN occur as well as what WILL occur. Ignoring the latter is a massive design flaw that can keep a product niche /unpopular/dead.
Exo is more like a hero unit than a glass cannon unit. It's a pricey toy that you must earn and that should be very powerful just like an onos if your team gets onosballed why couldnt the same logic be applied for exoballed?
Incoming rant..
You can easily have a glass cannon designed hero unit, they are not mutually exclusive? For example, if you were to double the DPS output and lower the eHP by 100, you'd still have a hero unit because of the DPS - and then it'd be a glass cannon design without question.
I agree it should be powerful. It's currently powerful in certain circumstances. I advocate for broadening that application while fixing some of the unfun aspects of it. (see deck's post)
Getting Onos-balled isn't an infrequent or difficult task... you are guaranteed that lifeform on a long enough timeline. It's supposed to be a risk to do so, however, since by design we want to avoid any tech explosions for very good reason. Which brings me to my next point..
You don't get Exo-balled often because it's far too risky for your team to do so, esp. with beacon not affecting exos (which I am glad about for multiple reasons) and requiring welding, and lack of versatility like building etc etc. If you lose to such a thing, you were going to lose anyways, marines just got to stomp on your corpse beforehand.
DISCLAIMER: I don't like engaging in a debate about something I am not very confident in, but you've asked for my early opinion and as such we've begun discussing it back and forth.
That being said, consider that a fully armored 40 pres Exo takes 5.5 sec to be destroyed by 1 free skulk (1.8 sec if 3 skulks) while a fully armored Onos takes 17.5 sec to be destroyed by a marine W3 rifle. An A3 marine receiving a medpack mid-bite can last 4.5 seconds, and Exos obviously cannot get medpacks.
Yes yes.. I know "asymmetry" (sidenote: that's a horrible excuse for anything balance related) and more importantly that they share different roles, obviously. One is a meatshield and one is a ...? My point is that one of those roles isn't as easily utilized as the other because of that. A weaker Exo must position themselves in long hallways, outside of rooms, precariously.. in order to fully utilize them. (again, see deck's post) If you're 90% of the player population and you aren't good at positioning.. then you're probably going to lose that Exo.
We've all seen Onos (who are much faster than an exo!) flash their lifeform or walk into a room of death... but just remember that they still take more than 3x as much damage than a slow Exo - so if you use that as a basis for comparison and consider what I said earlier regarding TTK for typical marines vs exos, you sort of see how I might consider it a near glass cannon design for a "hero" or endgame unit. It can melt players and hives, sure, but the reality is that average skilled player doesn't last long in them.
This poll is a great reflection of the perception difference on their viability.
I guarantee you if I asked the same question about Jetpacks there'd be zero disagreement.
I dont think it's a very smart idea to balance a inately competitive game around average players incompetence.
You are right, it is not. There are some very obvious problems with balancing entirely around average players.
To speak beyond the topic of exos, I think this is a narrow point of view to think the game should only be balanced around the highest of skill. Doing this alone often can make the game mechanics inaccessible.
It may be more difficult, but I think we should strive for a holistic balance. Is it too idealistic to think that we should strive to balance the game around the highest and average skill?
I like to think that I am a rather pragmatic person, who does what works more than push for what it will never be. I do not think a more holistic balance is out of reach. This path would require compromise but I think it would be worth it in the end.
You can easily have a glass cannon designed hero unit, they are not mutually exclusive? For example, if you were to double the DPS output and lower the eHP by 100, you'd still have a hero unit because of the DPS - and then it'd be a glass cannon design without question.
That's not what I'm talking about...
I think it's bullshit that exo need to be removed (Deck post) OR that their sole purpose is to "camp" lanes.
They are pretty good at pressuring hives too (more or less depending on the map).
And if aliens allow many marines to save up pres for exosplosion they diserve the loss, marines should be forced to buy shotguns almost constantly unless aliens are slacking.
I understand you just want to discuss casually and gather people's opinion but you did vote.
I agree their may be a problem with exo being not enoug user friendly, this does NOT mean being underpowered.
That's why I proposed health regeneration (armor rather), which would allow exos to not mandatorily rely on their team when they are stupid! like not welding the exo that's winning the game.
Point is exo need support, they can't be "medpacked" either the commander has some very good micro with MACs (never happen in pubs and expensive anyway) either the teams have to actively play with the exo, weld, stay around it etc (rarely happen unless you have a mic and shout or you are topscoring already)
Maybe you could experiment with making them tankier or quicker but I don't see how it would properly adress the core issue which is as I see it currently > exo need support, people in pubs usually dont support
I agree their may be a problem with exo being not enoug user friendly, this does NOT mean being underpowered.
Viable =/= Underpowered.
I've never attested that they were underpowered. It's a role / accessibility issue.
And self welding just compounds the issue of exploitation; good players are made better with it.
Consider that you need less support if you have more armor..
I dont think it's a very smart idea to balance a inately competitive game around average players incompetence.
think this is a narrow point of view to think the game should only be balanced around the highest of skill.
I didnt say that. I AGREE it's great to try to thrive to encompass both worlds especially since in NS2 the playerbase is basically half competitive players and half rookies with little middle ground.
I agree their may be a problem with exo being not enoug user friendly, this does NOT mean being underpowered.
I've never attested that they were underpowered. It's a role / accessibility issue.
And self welding just compounds the issue of exploitation; good players are made better with it.
Consider that you need less support if you have more armor..
Its an atempt to adress the lack of support in pubs. Maybe it could end up making exo more powerful but I suppose you could balance that by reducing their health accordingly.
Really thats just the first idea I thought of reading this thread I don't know, there might be better ideas out there, balancing is complex I'll leave that to smarter people.
At least now we agree on what needs to be adressed.
Sorry I was mistaken. It is not an uncommon view that I often hear in game or read on these forums. Sometimes the lurkers who aren't commenting need reminding.
As someone who has studied and worked professionally on real world problems more complex than NS2, the smart people don't really know much better.
There are usually two methods of decision making done. There is the technocrat method where all the smart people are gathered together and do their best to solve the problems as best they can. The US government did this for decades with natural resource management. It never seems to really solve the more complex problems and typically makes a lot of people unhappy. The second method is public involvement based. A few alternatives are proposed for a given problem. The planning agency will go through a long process trying to extract public input on what alternative they think works best. After an extended analysis of the public input, a decision is made or the alternatives revised. If there is a revision, then the public involvement process restarts.
That is kind of a long yet insufficient explanation of the two decision making practices. My point is that there is no right answer. There is no perfect solution. Any change will upset a large number of players. At best, all you can hope for is an optimal compromise.
They have fantastic hive pushing abilities, great damage output, good enough mobility, and appropriate weaknesses. Spikes, Bile, Whips, Onos, a few skulks, all can kill / defend from exos.
Pros and cons.
Viable. Balanced. Fun.
Remove all previous personal anecdotes. Have I answered your question yet? Sincere question because it feels like I'm seriously misunderstanding what's being asked here
No. You are talking about all the things that are possible. I'm saying that that isn't probable in the majority of pub games. Basically I think exos are viable, but it comes with a yes, if/but, so it doesn't meet the criteria that Ironhorse set out.
That's why my question for you is simple. If you are the commander, do you trust your team to use them effectively? Personally, I think that its equivalent to putting a phase gate in a bad location except that my team can't phase back and I lose half the map. And there's no guarantee that any of them can actually aim while they still take another player or two to weld them.
Are exos viable? Yes. Are they, on average, equal to jetpacks? No, I don't think so. However, I don't mind some tech being, on average, worse than others. Generally, it's more useful to have a shotgun than a flamethrower. This isn't to say that you should never have a FT though. You can think of it as analogous to an evolutionarily stable strategy (ESS). Multiple ESS' can co-exist in a population, but not necessarily at the same frequency. I actually quite like this; it's sort of like throwing a jumping, spinning back-kick. If you do it as often as you throw the jab, you're likely to get taken down and smashed because it's slower and leaves you moreso open for a counter. If you use it more sparingly, and crucially, at the right time, it can be more useful than the jab, KOing your opponent outright. (see Uriah Hall v Mousasi 1 for instance...)
They have fantastic hive pushing abilities, great damage output, good enough mobility, and appropriate weaknesses. Spikes, Bile, Whips, Onos, a few skulks, all can kill / defend from exos.
Pros and cons.
Viable. Balanced. Fun.
Remove all previous personal anecdotes. Have I answered your question yet? Sincere question because it feels like I'm seriously misunderstanding what's being asked here
If you are the commander, do you trust your team to use them effectively?
I think no. Neither competitive nor public. Well I mean for Minigun exos.
In previous builds Minigun Exo was a good siege front line option but too expensive and Railgun Exo was just useless.
At present Railgun exos is a good siege rear weapon (its only weakness is onoses) and Minigun exo IMO is just useless because it has not any advantage compared to well armed marine (except high HP). Normal damage change made it just not enough DPS to carry out elementary battles.
My team played Minigun exo in a couple competitive matches and it was weird shit. Railgun is ok.
If you want to make Minigun exos usefull again you can allow it to shoot during jet or buff its HP capacity.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
What could work for the exo, potentially is it being modular.
Hell, even shove a welder on it. Yes of course this allows for exo trains, which sounds rather OP. So that would need to be balanced somehow.
But perhaps making the exo modular would serve more goals? Hell, make toggle modular.. so if you 'weapon swap', you swap to a different weapon or tool.
So you cooldown the weapon swap, like I swap from minigun to welder, but can not use the new weapon/tool for x deploy time.
It would atleast make picking exo a bit more viable in terms of swaying conditions.
A lot of these suggested changes worry me that you'd be neutering their power in exchange for "change".
There's not been a clearly identified problem and so no targeted solutions.
Reducing damage and buffing hp might make people MORE afraid to push and move off of PGs. It might make MORE marine "retard magnet" balls decreasing marine spread and map control buffing alien late game inadvertently.
Modular exos?? They basically already are with eject. Again, messing around and neutering their dmg would make them seriously weak and less viable.
Changing mobility would remove their major vulnerability. There's such little variability in ns2 tech routes that I'd argue the choice between exos and JPs is the only true variability because it's essentially the only real opportunity cost marines get.
I don't think anyone wants to buff them to the days of OP exo trains again. Saying that, maybe commanders could drop exos ))))?
Maybe exos are viable but who cares when the tech is so heavily underused in pubs it means there's definitely a underlying problem.
And btw your video doesnt show anything it's not a proof that they are viable it only show that if you play against people that are way worst than you you can easily chainkill them wow so much for that.
As I suspect from looking at the difference between jetpacker marine and exo the true problem is that exos require support and in pubs it's not garanteed. While jetpack is always a net plus. That's the problem, if you want exo used more in pubs make exos more autonomous.
Please dont attempt to re-'balance' exos. They're not without issues, but they're probably in the best place they've been since launch.
Meanwhile there are much more pressing issues; nobody wants to lerk or fade, the HMG has been implemented but is far worse a res investment than an exo. I'm not going to list them all but my point is that exos are pretty near the bottom of the list for now.
To attempt to rebalance exos (which is what it seems like you are pining for in this thread) would be mere busy-making to avoid the important, harder issues; many of which have been caused by the recent balance changes.
but they're probably in the best place they've been since launch.
I agree.
I have made and pushed for many Exo suggestions over the years, as well as personally fine tuning the vanilla cinematics to be less obstructive, all to keep pushing it to a better place.
And while I feel like it has room to improve still, it's at least in the best place so far.
But to be honest I wasn't looking at Exos to "fix them" as a mechanic - but rather I am looking to fix a larger problem not mentioned here and figured they could be of assistance in doing so.
I realize I wasn't up front about this, so there was no way for you or anybody to know my agenda, but trust me I am not focusing on the Exo because I think it's a priority over other things.
The real problem that I am unwilling to get into in this thread, is arguably as important as Lerks* or Fades, and all I was looking for was the community's perception of Exos to better assess how to go forward / whether it could be utilized. *BTW, check out the new patch, the Lerk has some adjustments Nordic and myself suggested. Feel free to provide feedback.
TL;DR : The important / harder issues are exactly what I am after..
What exactly is the point of this poll? The question is so forcefully simple that an answer doesnt provide any useful information, you may as well ask whether hammers are viable when building a house. The viability of any given tech is a nuanced question and is dependent on circumstance, trying to remove the nuance removes the value of asking the question.
Every time someone tries to actually discuss the question IH steps in and tells them to keep it simple, its like he doesn't believe that tech choices have any place in strategy. Everything should be equally useful all the time, otherwise it is "not viable". All tech paths should be identical! We should all go down to the countryside to learn from the MACs and drifters!
As for comp, who the even plays comp anymore? This game has like 100 regular players, restrict yourselves to making the pub play enjoyable and capable of retaining players THEN you can maybe discuss comp.
As for comp, who the even plays comp anymore? This game has like 100 regular players, restrict yourselves to making the pub play enjoyable and capable of retaining players THEN you can maybe discuss comp.
If you haven't noticed: UWE fucked up comp completely, and there is a balance mod for years for comp now. So your complaint is just wrong.
What exactly is the point of this poll? The viability of any given tech is a nuanced question and is dependent on circumstance, trying to remove the nuance removes the value of asking the question.
Everything should be equally useful all the time, otherwise it is "not viable". .
Not only did you contradict yourself there, but I believe you answered your own question too..
As for the purpose of the poll, I've answered that multiple times, including in my prior comment.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2017
Exo health should be displayed at the bottom of the screen as a bar, in place of the booster energy bar. It being at the top of the screen only in numeric form seems like bad UI design. It's inconsistent with other player UIs and makes it difficult for Exo to check its own HP.
I wonder if Exos could be changed/buffed so they have a "second life"/disabled state. After taking lethal damage, Exo would be disabled and unable to eject, but instead of exploding instantly, they have a second HP which decays rapidly over time (~10 seconds or so), and if repaired in time, restore their functionalities (similar to reviving in Dirty Bomb). Would it work?
Personally, if a mechanic is only or mostly viable under specific circumstances that are infrequent (wob on your team), then I have a hard time considering it viable.
We have only one @Wob , but even on pub you are likely to have 1-2 good shots on your team... so sure, don't balance around wob, just balance around the fact that there will be a few excellent aimers.
I know you cannot create a poll for a complex question like this, what I meant was that it really differs on a round-to-round basis...
Exo health should be displayed at the bottom of the screen as a bar, in place of the booster energy bar. It being at the top of the screen only in numeric form seems like bad UI design. It's inconsistent with other player UIs and makes it difficult for Exo to check its own HP.
I wonder if Exos could be changed/buffed so they have a "second life"/disabled state. After taking lethal damage, Exo would be disabled and unable to eject, but instead of exploding instantly, they have a second HP which decays rapidly over time (~10 seconds or so), and if repaired in time, restore their functionalities (similar to reviving in Dirty Bomb). Would it work?
This disabled idea sounds fun... but marines should have the ability to suicide tbh (but not by typing kill in cli ).
Comments
Is it viable for Wob? Yes.
Is it viable for everyone? Few parts are viable for a strong majority of the community.
The impossible question, as with most things in NS2, is how do we make exo's viable for even a larger minority of players without making exo's OP broken for wob?
I'm more interested in getting a pulse on perception from the community before suggesting things publicly, as it can highlight unconsidered aspects.
But if I were to throw something in the wild suggestion box without much thought as of right now, I tend towards the idea of more armor for less DPS output, proportionately, with a slight increase in speed.
The initial idea being to lower the skill floor by increasing survivability, without making good shots more effective, and then to alleviate the need to sit in a hallway camping. You'd be more mobile (no more 4 speed backpedaling) in combat and could take more damage, therefore you'd probably participate in pushes more. I predict the mentality would change regarding playing the role, even with a decreased DPS output.
Right now I see the exo in a somewhat quasi glass cannon state, where it's relatively easy to take down for a vet in terms of TTK and speed, but it has unbelievable DPS potential. I'm not saying my suggestion would work, or that it's even possible or without massive repercussions.. but since you're asking me before I have fully assessed the feedback, that's my early line of thinking.
Shift the role : make it less situational, more accessible, less exploitable.
In order for railguns in general to be effective without being broken for players like @Wob , they need to be better at fulfilling some other strategic role, as opposed to having accuracy alone determining it's effectiveness.
And I don't think its a very smart idea to balance a game around what only 10% of your customer base can realistically accomplish.
You should balance around what CAN occur as well as what WILL occur. Ignoring the latter is a massive design flaw that can keep a product niche /unpopular/dead.
Incoming rant..
DISCLAIMER: I don't like engaging in a debate about something I am not very confident in, but you've asked for my early opinion and as such we've begun discussing it back and forth.
That being said, consider that a fully armored 40 pres Exo takes 5.5 sec to be destroyed by 1 free skulk (1.8 sec if 3 skulks) while a fully armored Onos takes 17.5 sec to be destroyed by a marine W3 rifle. An A3 marine receiving a medpack mid-bite can last 4.5 seconds, and Exos obviously cannot get medpacks.
Yes yes.. I know "asymmetry" (sidenote: that's a horrible excuse for anything balance related) and more importantly that they share different roles, obviously. One is a meatshield and one is a ...? My point is that one of those roles isn't as easily utilized as the other because of that. A weaker Exo must position themselves in long hallways, outside of rooms, precariously.. in order to fully utilize them. (again, see deck's post) If you're 90% of the player population and you aren't good at positioning.. then you're probably going to lose that Exo.
We've all seen Onos (who are much faster than an exo!) flash their lifeform or walk into a room of death... but just remember that they still take more than 3x as much damage than a slow Exo - so if you use that as a basis for comparison and consider what I said earlier regarding TTK for typical marines vs exos, you sort of see how I might consider it a near glass cannon design for a "hero" or endgame unit. It can melt players and hives, sure, but the reality is that average skilled player doesn't last long in them.
This poll is a great reflection of the perception difference on their viability.
I guarantee you if I asked the same question about Jetpacks there'd be zero disagreement.
You are right, it is not. There are some very obvious problems with balancing entirely around average players.
To speak beyond the topic of exos, I think this is a narrow point of view to think the game should only be balanced around the highest of skill. Doing this alone often can make the game mechanics inaccessible.
It may be more difficult, but I think we should strive for a holistic balance. Is it too idealistic to think that we should strive to balance the game around the highest and average skill?
I like to think that I am a rather pragmatic person, who does what works more than push for what it will never be. I do not think a more holistic balance is out of reach. This path would require compromise but I think it would be worth it in the end.
I think it's bullshit that exo need to be removed (Deck post) OR that their sole purpose is to "camp" lanes.
They are pretty good at pressuring hives too (more or less depending on the map).
And if aliens allow many marines to save up pres for exosplosion they diserve the loss, marines should be forced to buy shotguns almost constantly unless aliens are slacking.
I understand you just want to discuss casually and gather people's opinion but you did vote.
I agree their may be a problem with exo being not enoug user friendly, this does NOT mean being underpowered.
That's why I proposed health regeneration (armor rather), which would allow exos to not mandatorily rely on their team when they are stupid! like not welding the exo that's winning the game.
Point is exo need support, they can't be "medpacked" either the commander has some very good micro with MACs (never happen in pubs and expensive anyway) either the teams have to actively play with the exo, weld, stay around it etc (rarely happen unless you have a mic and shout or you are topscoring already)
Maybe you could experiment with making them tankier or quicker but I don't see how it would properly adress the core issue which is as I see it currently > exo need support, people in pubs usually dont support
I've never attested that they were underpowered. It's a role / accessibility issue.
And self welding just compounds the issue of exploitation; good players are made better with it.
Consider that you need less support if you have more armor..
Its an atempt to adress the lack of support in pubs. Maybe it could end up making exo more powerful but I suppose you could balance that by reducing their health accordingly.
Really thats just the first idea I thought of reading this thread I don't know, there might be better ideas out there, balancing is complex I'll leave that to smarter people.
At least now we agree on what needs to be adressed.
As someone who has studied and worked professionally on real world problems more complex than NS2, the smart people don't really know much better.
There are usually two methods of decision making done. There is the technocrat method where all the smart people are gathered together and do their best to solve the problems as best they can. The US government did this for decades with natural resource management. It never seems to really solve the more complex problems and typically makes a lot of people unhappy. The second method is public involvement based. A few alternatives are proposed for a given problem. The planning agency will go through a long process trying to extract public input on what alternative they think works best. After an extended analysis of the public input, a decision is made or the alternatives revised. If there is a revision, then the public involvement process restarts.
That is kind of a long yet insufficient explanation of the two decision making practices. My point is that there is no right answer. There is no perfect solution. Any change will upset a large number of players. At best, all you can hope for is an optimal compromise.
This is not necessarily directed at you Revan
No. You are talking about all the things that are possible. I'm saying that that isn't probable in the majority of pub games. Basically I think exos are viable, but it comes with a yes, if/but, so it doesn't meet the criteria that Ironhorse set out.
That's why my question for you is simple. If you are the commander, do you trust your team to use them effectively? Personally, I think that its equivalent to putting a phase gate in a bad location except that my team can't phase back and I lose half the map. And there's no guarantee that any of them can actually aim while they still take another player or two to weld them.
I can only speak for pubs though.
Honestly, yes.
In previous builds Minigun Exo was a good siege front line option but too expensive and Railgun Exo was just useless.
At present Railgun exos is a good siege rear weapon (its only weakness is onoses) and Minigun exo IMO is just useless because it has not any advantage compared to well armed marine (except high HP). Normal damage change made it just not enough DPS to carry out elementary battles.
My team played Minigun exo in a couple competitive matches and it was weird shit. Railgun is ok.
If you want to make Minigun exos usefull again you can allow it to shoot during jet or buff its HP capacity.
Hell, even shove a welder on it. Yes of course this allows for exo trains, which sounds rather OP. So that would need to be balanced somehow.
But perhaps making the exo modular would serve more goals? Hell, make toggle modular.. so if you 'weapon swap', you swap to a different weapon or tool.
So you cooldown the weapon swap, like I swap from minigun to welder, but can not use the new weapon/tool for x deploy time.
It would atleast make picking exo a bit more viable in terms of swaying conditions.
<balancing heavily needed>
There's not been a clearly identified problem and so no targeted solutions.
Reducing damage and buffing hp might make people MORE afraid to push and move off of PGs. It might make MORE marine "retard magnet" balls decreasing marine spread and map control buffing alien late game inadvertently.
Modular exos?? They basically already are with eject. Again, messing around and neutering their dmg would make them seriously weak and less viable.
Changing mobility would remove their major vulnerability. There's such little variability in ns2 tech routes that I'd argue the choice between exos and JPs is the only true variability because it's essentially the only real opportunity cost marines get.
I don't think anyone wants to buff them to the days of OP exo trains again. Saying that, maybe commanders could drop exos
And btw your video doesnt show anything it's not a proof that they are viable it only show that if you play against people that are way worst than you you can easily chainkill them wow so much for that.
As I suspect from looking at the difference between jetpacker marine and exo the true problem is that exos require support and in pubs it's not garanteed. While jetpack is always a net plus. That's the problem, if you want exo used more in pubs make exos more autonomous.
Meanwhile there are much more pressing issues; nobody wants to lerk or fade, the HMG has been implemented but is far worse a res investment than an exo. I'm not going to list them all but my point is that exos are pretty near the bottom of the list for now.
To attempt to rebalance exos (which is what it seems like you are pining for in this thread) would be mere busy-making to avoid the important, harder issues; many of which have been caused by the recent balance changes.
I have made and pushed for many Exo suggestions over the years, as well as personally fine tuning the vanilla cinematics to be less obstructive, all to keep pushing it to a better place.
And while I feel like it has room to improve still, it's at least in the best place so far.
But to be honest I wasn't looking at Exos to "fix them" as a mechanic - but rather I am looking to fix a larger problem not mentioned here and figured they could be of assistance in doing so.
I realize I wasn't up front about this, so there was no way for you or anybody to know my agenda, but trust me I am not focusing on the Exo because I think it's a priority over other things.
The real problem that I am unwilling to get into in this thread, is arguably as important as Lerks* or Fades, and all I was looking for was the community's perception of Exos to better assess how to go forward / whether it could be utilized. *BTW, check out the new patch, the Lerk has some adjustments Nordic and myself suggested. Feel free to provide feedback.
TL;DR : The important / harder issues are exactly what I am after..
Every time someone tries to actually discuss the question IH steps in and tells them to keep it simple, its like he doesn't believe that tech choices have any place in strategy. Everything should be equally useful all the time, otherwise it is "not viable". All tech paths should be identical! We should all go down to the countryside to learn from the MACs and drifters!
As for comp, who the even plays comp anymore? This game has like 100 regular players, restrict yourselves to making the pub play enjoyable and capable of retaining players THEN you can maybe discuss comp.
If you haven't noticed: UWE fucked up comp completely, and there is a balance mod for years for comp now. So your complaint is just wrong.
Not only did you contradict yourself there, but I believe you answered your own question too..
As for the purpose of the poll, I've answered that multiple times, including in my prior comment.
I wonder if Exos could be changed/buffed so they have a "second life"/disabled state. After taking lethal damage, Exo would be disabled and unable to eject, but instead of exploding instantly, they have a second HP which decays rapidly over time (~10 seconds or so), and if repaired in time, restore their functionalities (similar to reviving in Dirty Bomb). Would it work?
We have only one @Wob , but even on pub you are likely to have 1-2 good shots on your team... so sure, don't balance around wob, just balance around the fact that there will be a few excellent aimers.
I know you cannot create a poll for a complex question like this, what I meant was that it really differs on a round-to-round basis...
This disabled idea sounds fun... but marines should have the ability to suicide tbh (but not by typing kill in cli