Flaw In Latest Patch:: Team Changing
rebo
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2734Members
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2734Members
I think its a mistake to prevent changing teams mid game, there are many reasons why you might want to change teams - and if the teams are even, - or you are balancing an inequality then there is no problem. After all its easy to figure out what hive the aliens are in. The non-change teams thing only messes things up and forces you to type retry which then might lose your spot on a busy server.
Its silly thats just because you was aliens, you cant go marines or speccy for a bit - maybe you are lost in the map and need to find your way about. Stop being so paranoid and preventing the game from being played how people want to play it.
Its silly thats just because you was aliens, you cant go marines or speccy for a bit - maybe you are lost in the map and need to find your way about. Stop being so paranoid and preventing the game from being played how people want to play it.
Comments
...but on the other hand - lets face it:
People who actually changed teams for balance's sake on
public servers are as rare as an onos-arse that actually fits
through an air vent.
I used to be one of those erhm... arses that tried to balance
the teams by switching whenever it would even out the teams.
But hence of the massive player fluctuations on public servers
I was almost like switching all the time, since there was always
someone joining or leaving one team or the other.
What was implemented in 1.03 is surely a bold experiment. But
I am willing to try it out for a while, for I strongly believe it will
be more fun in the long run than it was before 1.03.
Teams on public servers consist 80% of people who can't take
a bloody nose and jump off the server as soon as the battle gets
interesting. I'd rather loose a game instantly than watching the
game dragging along for another hour leading nowhere.
I am very grateful for the attempts that are made to make playing
on public servers more fun.
If this won't work out, they'll change it with the next patch. Don't worry.
(And if they shell out those updates as fast as they've done in the past
[hey! it rhymes! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->] you wouldn't have to wait THAT long).
Give that patch more time. Try to enjoy the fact that the dev team is so
dedicated to their fans. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The evil you mention is a neccessary one. We either have people stuck on a team and unable to balance them (usually someone else joins anyway) or we have people hopping to marines, recylcing all the buildings, the going back to aliens. Or going to aliens, building chambers on the nozzles, then switching to marines.
However, I'll put my vote on the side of approval for the 1.03 changes. Been in too many games where people did switch sides just to **obscenity** with the enemy team, be it recycling the marine structures, or building chambers on the nozzles.
Ever seen a marine base filled with CCs? Stuffed to the point where you almost can't walk?
most of the time when teams are uneven it seems the game is near over and players on one team just leave... Why would someone on the team who is destroying the others want to join the losign team with little chance? people want to win, not lose.
people always go to the ready room to get rid of bad scores.. and while it may be dumb, it is easier than reconnecting, maybe you got that score for not trying, having a friend play, or being AFK.. you shouldnt be stuck with it, just dont forget scores mean little in this game. If there are 4 marines who dont have a commander out destroying every alien they see like bots and the aliens are destroying the marines CC and infnary portal: the aliens still have a great chance, all they need to do is find some way to kill them.scores dont end the game, bases do.
So what the hell is the point of this?
I'm sure we all can remember games when they fought a battle and suddenly realized some of their former allies are suddenly on the other side, thus imbalancing the match both by giving their new team more and their old team less firepower.
This just won't happen anymore.
I'm sure we all can remember games when they fought a battle and suddenly realized some of their former allies are suddenly on the other side, thus imbalancing the match both by giving their new team more and their old team less firepower.
This just won't happen anymore.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So what? Not letting people switch teams doesn't solve the problem. If people don't want to play on a losing team and they can't switch teams, they'll just leave. The effect is the same, the weak team gets weaker.
And I'd think this kind of thing would happen more frequently in 1.03, as when one person leaves (for any reason, not just because of some game issue) it creates a small unbalance that can often snowball into a big imbalance (people leave cause other people leave). 1.03 gives an added incentive to leave since the game will immediately end if the teams are imbalanced enough.
edit: and also, if someone REALLY wants to join the other team, they can just reconnect, and join the other team (very easy, just type retry in console). All this patch does is create annoyance.
to an answer that has already been given in the very same thread.
<!--QuoteBegin--TychoCelchuuu+Nov 28 2002, 02:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TychoCelchuuu @ Nov 28 2002, 02:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The evil you mention is a neccessary one. We either have people stuck
on a team and unable to balance them (usually someone else joins anyway)
or we have people hopping to marines, recylcing all the buildings, the going
back to aliens. Or going to aliens, building chambers on the nozzles,
then switching to marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The reasons why switching of teams is hindered in 1.03
have been reiterated over and over.
Please be so kind and read previous posts more carefully in the future.
<b>"and also, if someone REALLY wants to join the other team,
they can just reconnect, and join the other team
(very easy, just type retry in console)."</b>
Who says a vacuum can't be encased in granite? After all, there
will always be people who will do anything to work against the
spirit of the game as it's creators intended it to be.
Alas, that is no reason to obstruct or fight such tendencies. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->After all, there
will always be people who will do anything to work against the
spirit of the game as it's creators intended it to be.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uhhh... Typing retry in console isn't that complicated, you don't need people who will go to any lengthes to circumvent the dev's intentions to get around this patch.
I wish you would read <b>MY</b> post more thouroughly since you obviously don't understand the concept.
People who REALLY DO want to screw with a game aren't hindered AT ALL by this. This only screws the people who genuinely want to balance the teams.
If people want to leave a losing team but can't switch teams, they'll probably just leave.
Yup, you have a greater ammo cappacity than 250 for lmg and hmg, it just doesn't show it. Been there since NS was released.
Anways, /pulls this back on topic.
It's time to even the teams and start over!
Instead of taking things personal, I advise you to <i>read</i> previous posts:
You say the 1.03 changes get more in the way of those honorably players who
will switch teams in mid game for the sake of balance and don't hinder the evil
abusers at all.
This is just a plain contradiction: Leaving and reentering the game is a workaround
that works <i>equally well</i> for both 'good' and 'bad' guys. Why should it annoy the
'good' guys more than the 'bad' guys?
Albeit previous posts also adressed that issue as well:
<!--QuoteBegin--LagAdder+Nov 28 2002, 02:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (LagAdder @ Nov 28 2002, 02:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->lets face it: People who actually changed teams for balance's sake on public
servers are as rare as an onos-arse that actually fits through an air vent.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All the way down since NS 1.0, I have witnessed more abuse of team-switching than
I have seen people actually switching over to a losing team.
If you find it so easy and fun to work around this countermeasure, I don't quite
understand the fuss you make about it, that's all.
Instead of taking things personal, I advise you to <i>read</i> previous posts:
You say the 1.03 changes get more in the way of those honorably players who
will switch teams in mid game for the sake of balance and don't hinder the evil
abusers at all.
This is just a plain contradiction: Leaving and reentering the game is a workaround
that works <i>equally well</i> for both 'good' and 'bad' guys. Why should it annoy the
'good' guys more than the 'bad' guys?
Albeit previous posts also adressed that issue as well:
<!--QuoteBegin--LagAdder+Nov 28 2002, 02:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (LagAdder @ Nov 28 2002, 02:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->lets face it: People who actually changed teams for balance's sake on public
servers are as rare as an onos-arse that actually fits through an air vent.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All the way down since NS 1.0, I have witnessed more abuse of team-switching than
I have seen people actually switching over to a losing team.
If you find it so easy and fun to work around this countermeasure, I don't quite
understand the fuss you make about it, that's all.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You were the one that made it personal by insisting that I was ignorant and hadn't read any other posts.
And, if you agree that it's very easy and simple to circumvent this feature then why are you arguing that it should stay in?
It hinders everyone, but people who really want to screw with things won't care about hinderences.
So again, what's the point of this thing?
Its silly thats just because you was aliens, you cant go marines or speccy for a bit - maybe you are lost in the map and need to find your way about. Stop being so paranoid and preventing the game from being played how people want to play it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How many times have you seen someone actually change from winning to losing team (to balance the numbers)? None for me.
allowteamswitching=1 means people can change sides all they like
allowteamswitching=0 means you pick a team and stick with it to the end.
Removing the ability to join the bigger team already restricts the 'rats syndrome' (sinking ship) and helps keep the team balanced.
Started a game a marine. Some clanned dood jumps straight into the command chair and starts giving orders (good thing - someone who knows what there doing). Builds an simple base and starts to move us out towards a hive (current players 5 marines, 6 aliens).
We're doing pretty well. Good coordination. One marnine builds and two cover (urm and one random rambo). We're five minutes into the game, and we get jumped by well coordinated skulks <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> , who kill the three of us and destroyed the turret factory <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> .
Commander spits his dummy out, shouts down the comms that where all crap and the only way you can win this game is to take a hive in the first five minutes, team swaps to the aliens with his other clan mate and ruins the whole game (8 aliens to 4 marines), so he can finish this game quickly and start a new game.
What a way to ruin a session and leave a sour taste in the mouth of the other players. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> (Bet the aliens where too pleased either - after all they were playing a stonker of a coordinated game).
I was so **obscenity** I left the server (good choice as I played a far superior game on another server - still lost tho <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> ).
How about remembering players WONID's for the duration of the game. That way "retry" at the command line stops the team swappers dead. I also disagree about team swapping to balance the number of players. At peak times, players are joining all the time. All you need is a player limit on the server to keep even teams when new players are joining. If players are such bad loosers that they need to leave the game at the first sign of loosing, then they shouldn't be playing at all. Theres nothing more satisfying than winning a long and hard fought game. If I'm going to loose, then I don't want to rob the other team of that satisfaction, same way I wouldn't want them to rob me of it.
nuf rambling.
Kildrago