Well that is the common mistake to think that this "mindset" is superior in any other sense than in ns2 : Sorting out what abilities or skills are necessary/good to have has probably been discussed many times before, and is a interesting discussion in it self, but it was not the point of this subject. I think if you put that kind of value in it you will go for the elitist approach and it is simply not very interesting to pat myself on my back or anyone else in some kind of unity through "fascist" values. That is what we have ENSL for Sorry couldn't resist the joke No offense boys! For the sake of the discussion let's say that you need a set of 10 skills/abilities for the game and you need at least 5 of these to make game to enjoyable, and which those are may vary. I say that the number of people that reach this, to be able to "convert" (=keep playing the game) is less than what people tend to think around here. In my eyes it is just the way it is.
Player retention need something much bigger than collectables and achievements .
Things like ingame ranked matchmaking , monthly gorgeous-like updates , large scale server support , better hitreg , hundred skins (collectable craft system ?) ...
Lets try not to fall prey to "the only reason we aren't popular is because we're so much better than everyone else" hubris. I don't think the game or its community will benefit from a false sense of superiority or elitism.
The attitude that NS2 is too high skilled for the average human being has been something that has really annoyed me for a long time. Before we arrive at this particular conclusion (which if true is impossible to change), can't we at least have a look at some of the other factors first that may actually be more significant and CAN be changed? For me, low player retention was/is caused by the following, in no particular order:
- Really bad performance for mid range machines upon release (this is a lot better now but a little too late).
- Lack of match making
- The fact that its an old product with fairly static tech path options.
As i said the performance isn't as big of an issue as it was, but still relevant.
Match making. All current competitive multiplayer shooters and other game types have it. Take a game like dota for example. Lots of players. Generally more nuanced and complicated than NS2, especially in the initial learning phase. What makes it not become a clusterfudge of people giving up? Match making. That is, separating people into their skill brackets so they can have balanced games.
I don't necessarily disagree with the sentiment that people have different caps on their capabilities. Not everyone given the same amount of time and resources can achieve the same level in a given skill. I disagree strongly though that for some reason this principle applies in some way particularly to NS2 as a game. I would go further and say that this mindset is actually very harmful, but maybe that's for another post.
ZavaroTucson, ArizonaJoin Date: 2005-02-14Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
I agree that matchmaking and performance would have significantly benefitted people, but stagnant tech paths would make little sense for retention for people who are brand new to the game.
When I first played Natural Selection 1 I spent an entire game hiding behind an armoury shooting at long range fades spraying acid at us non stop. Sitting in the cockpit getting slaughtered tended to be the way it went every time for marines. it was awesome.
Eventually after figuring out that this is a strategy game we started to work together, and steadily we made progress and then began to win some fights, and then a match.
Being the marines felt exciting because they were vulnerable, Oni (Onos's, you decide!) were truly terrifying and fades murdered everyone indiscriminately. Overcoming these hardships in a team based scenario back when we didn't have the C key to understand the flow of the fight was such a great feeling of elation.
I don't think most of the players of NS2 really act out of order, sometimes you get heavily invested in a game, especially those 40 minute and upwards ones. Sometimes you get upset because people aren't trying to help you when it's clear holding System Waypointing will hold the majority of the map with minimal effort, Sometimes things don't go the way you expect. Ultimately though, when you think about it, this is exactly why we play NS2. New players that experience the painstaking grind of fighting off the alien hordes barely able to hold onto two resource towers, who then plough forwards and capture a hive get this feeling of achievement, even if it means they lose their own base in the process.
New players have an amazing talent of being terrible at the game, who cares? Sure they don't know what is going on, sure they can't aim, and damn, they run in stupid directions whilst they get used to it, but watching all of us Ninjas jumping around to dodge skulks, or hiding on the ceilings to avoid marines is how they learn. I just hope they get the experience I did from NS1 desperately trying to survive.
When we shout at newbies, yeah sure we might upset them and they might leave or they might do what any normal human being should do and defy the slander. Why give up because some pleb on a mic is screaming random rubbish at you? If they quit because of that I don't think it's the plebs fault or the games, it's theirs for having no spine.
In the old days tracking skulks was new, Counter Strike was your only previous experience and that was useless, skulks were smaller than they are now, fast and climbed up the damn walls.
Do you stop eating your mcdonalds because someone says it's bad for you? hell no, straight upto the counter for a big tasty meal! (followed by exercise, don't forget!)
We live in a culture of minimal effort nowadays, we want easy wins, we want easy games and ultimately a fun time with little investment.
You don't get that in NS2. Investment makes a loss painful and a victory insurmountable, we long timers understand that. I myself have dipped in and out of playing NS2 because of the one guy that ninja rapes the whole alien team through 100% accuracy (Which is nuts, still unsure how they do it, I'm pretty good but damn!) but I still come back for more when I think they've gone!
Don't hate each other guys we aren't doing anything wrong, remember we have a mute button. It works a treat.
I think the word you're looking for is metacognition?
Hmmm i run into this concept in other areas of life,and there it means the a2bility to reflect upon your and other peoples cognition"....i don't know if it fits? i simply wanted to not be using a term that is using some kind of value.
Comments
Things like ingame ranked matchmaking , monthly gorgeous-like updates , large scale server support , better hitreg , hundred skins (collectable craft system ?) ...
But what about the NS Master Race
- Really bad performance for mid range machines upon release (this is a lot better now but a little too late).
- Lack of match making
- The fact that its an old product with fairly static tech path options.
As i said the performance isn't as big of an issue as it was, but still relevant.
Match making. All current competitive multiplayer shooters and other game types have it. Take a game like dota for example. Lots of players. Generally more nuanced and complicated than NS2, especially in the initial learning phase. What makes it not become a clusterfudge of people giving up? Match making. That is, separating people into their skill brackets so they can have balanced games.
I don't necessarily disagree with the sentiment that people have different caps on their capabilities. Not everyone given the same amount of time and resources can achieve the same level in a given skill. I disagree strongly though that for some reason this principle applies in some way particularly to NS2 as a game. I would go further and say that this mindset is actually very harmful, but maybe that's for another post.
You can't be serious...
Eventually after figuring out that this is a strategy game we started to work together, and steadily we made progress and then began to win some fights, and then a match.
Being the marines felt exciting because they were vulnerable, Oni (Onos's, you decide!) were truly terrifying and fades murdered everyone indiscriminately. Overcoming these hardships in a team based scenario back when we didn't have the C key to understand the flow of the fight was such a great feeling of elation.
I don't think most of the players of NS2 really act out of order, sometimes you get heavily invested in a game, especially those 40 minute and upwards ones. Sometimes you get upset because people aren't trying to help you when it's clear holding System Waypointing will hold the majority of the map with minimal effort, Sometimes things don't go the way you expect. Ultimately though, when you think about it, this is exactly why we play NS2. New players that experience the painstaking grind of fighting off the alien hordes barely able to hold onto two resource towers, who then plough forwards and capture a hive get this feeling of achievement, even if it means they lose their own base in the process.
New players have an amazing talent of being terrible at the game, who cares? Sure they don't know what is going on, sure they can't aim, and damn, they run in stupid directions whilst they get used to it, but watching all of us Ninjas jumping around to dodge skulks, or hiding on the ceilings to avoid marines is how they learn. I just hope they get the experience I did from NS1 desperately trying to survive.
When we shout at newbies, yeah sure we might upset them and they might leave or they might do what any normal human being should do and defy the slander. Why give up because some pleb on a mic is screaming random rubbish at you? If they quit because of that I don't think it's the plebs fault or the games, it's theirs for having no spine.
In the old days tracking skulks was new, Counter Strike was your only previous experience and that was useless, skulks were smaller than they are now, fast and climbed up the damn walls.
Do you stop eating your mcdonalds because someone says it's bad for you? hell no, straight upto the counter for a big tasty meal! (followed by exercise, don't forget!)
We live in a culture of minimal effort nowadays, we want easy wins, we want easy games and ultimately a fun time with little investment.
You don't get that in NS2. Investment makes a loss painful and a victory insurmountable, we long timers understand that. I myself have dipped in and out of playing NS2 because of the one guy that ninja rapes the whole alien team through 100% accuracy (Which is nuts, still unsure how they do it, I'm pretty good but damn!) but I still come back for more when I think they've gone!
Don't hate each other guys we aren't doing anything wrong, remember we have a mute button. It works a treat.
I think the word you're looking for is metacognition?
Hmmm i run into this concept in other areas of life,and there it means the a2bility to reflect upon your and other peoples cognition"....i don't know if it fits? i simply wanted to not be using a term that is using some kind of value.