Modernization: Spawn Loadouts and other things

IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 2,679 Advanced user
edited November 2015 in Ideas and Suggestions
(Disclaimer: The following interface was Photoshopped to better convey the suggestions I have and does not necessarily represent what I think the game should look like.)
pSsV1Mnl.png

The buy menu/loadout.

In modern gaming most games allow you to familiarize yourself with the game's classes, weapons, and abilities straight from the main menu which I think would also benefit Natural Selection 2. The menu could also be brought up while waiting to respawn to get yourself in the action quicker.

Preferred upgrades on spawn, and on evolution by class if applicable.

Upgrades have always been a great concept in natural selection, and outside of it being unlocked while your lifeform is still alive there has always been some tedium on gestating to use them each time. So being able to save a preferred upgrade setup and automatically start gestating before spawning would help cut down on players running around without any upgrades.

Allow players to start evolving to a higher lifeform straight from their spawn egg.

This one also goes on the tedium list, most of the time when players lose their lifeform they want to go straight back if they have the res available. So allowing players to set themselves up to start evolving immediately while waiting to respawn will help improve game flow and also make evolution eggs indistinguishable from spawn eggs. Also, if there are any commander purchased lifeform eggs lying around it should let that player choose to spawn there instead. (Emphasis on choice)

Bring back the glancing bite/strike mechanic.

This mechanic is only really useful for lower skilled players who are missing at a range they shouldn't be, as it aids in giving players a small damage compensation for an attack that would otherwise miss the target. It can be extremely frustrating to have all the close distance advantages in the world but still get danced around by that one marine with seemingly perfect aim.
Perhaps look into widening alien attack cones.

yrkuA4ul.png

Alternate spawn weapons for Marines.

I talked about this before, but the game needs side-grades to help aid in player retention. The problem with the basic assault rifle is the first gun you get in the game is one of the ones with the highest skill ceiling, the accuracy is high enough to negatively affect those whose aim are poor and those who are unfamiliar to tracking or leading alien players. Ideally adding a couple different spawn weapons to choose from would allow players of all skill levels to find their sweet spot rather than being frustrated at the only choice given to them.

Finally to fit with the loadout theme, change the current grenade system to be ns1 styled.

There are two types of grenade usage in games, not enough and too much. Some games you play you wish more players used them, other games people are using an armory as a portable siege turret. So ideally the ns1 system where players spawned with 1-2 grenades each life would get them used more often and more situationally as well. On top of this, having players choose between the 3 different grenade types would allow a little more customization to better suit their playstyles.

That's all I have for now, feel free to tear it apart :tongue:
Post edited by IeptBarakat on
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Comments

  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,676 Advanced user
    I really like nearly all of this. I have a few questions.

    How will the game handle letting you spawn, say in an onos egg if your hive is under attack? Would the game give you a warning, "Your hive is under attack, are you sure you want to evolve"? Would it just restrict you? If you egg gets killed would you just get your pres back?

    As a marine would you be able to spawn with a shotgun? I brought that idea up before and many told me it was too strong for base defense. That it would basically make it impossible for skulks to kill ips with spawners. I can imagine a similar argument for spawning with grenades.

    On glancing bites. I do not think they are new player friendly. I think they only are confusing. I remember new players saying they bit a guy 6 times and he still isn't dead. I remember them complaining when veterans told them that 2 bites 1 parasite killed a marine yet for the newbie this never happened. At best it is a hidden mechanic, at worst it is an annoying thing that does not help a player learn. Veterans did not like not knowing how many bites it would take to kill a marine, because they might miss. I remember @ironhorse having some strong words against glancing bites back then.
    I would rather just buff skulks by widening the default bite radius wider.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
    Saffron_baker
  • KasharicKasharic Hull, England Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 647 Advanced user
    Bite-cone is fine as it is... going back to the glancing bite system is something i'm strongly against.

    spawning as a lifeform instantly after spawn shouldn't be possible... you have to "upgrade" to your lifeform... so you should spawn as skulk always... you have "evolve last upgrade" for a reason... bind it and use it.

    The rest of this I am 100% behind... I would love to see a lot of this implemented and I have many more ideas that this would be a good starting point for... I'll eventually get around to writing up a post of my ideas..
    Meph isn't an NSL admin anymore!

    #blameHefty
  • CalegoCalego Join Date: 2013-01-24 Member: 181848Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 763 Advanced user
    I could get on board with menus like this.
    Nordic
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,676 Advanced user
    One thing I forgot to mention is menues like that would teach rookies really quickly.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
    Saffron_baker
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 2,679 Advanced user
    edited November 2015
    Nordic wrote: »
    I really like nearly all of this. I have a few questions.

    How will the game handle letting you spawn, say in an onos egg if your hive is under attack? Would the game give you a warning, "Your hive is under attack, are you sure you want to evolve"? Would it just restrict you? If you egg gets killed would you just get your pres back?

    Hive is under attack is usually a good enough indicator to be careful with evolving like any other point I suppose.

    I forgot to bring up the pres mechanic I was thinking of, I think tying the evolution cost to the gestation percent would help reduce the frustration of lifeform egg losses for the alien team. So for example a player finally saved up enough to go Onos and started evolving in a safe area to do so, but that one marine rolls in and picks his unlucky egg to be the first to die. Suddenly the player is left back with no resources left and no way to help defend the base. It was a total loss due to a freak occurrence and the marine is none the wiser.

    Now for the same scenario with tying evolution cost to gestation percentage, the player proceeds to go onos and dies again, but depending on how soon the player died after starting to evolve, the player would have 49.5 res leftover when dying at 10% or 5.5 res leftover when dying at 90% which would overall dampen the blow until the chance to survive increases. Since eggs gain health over time an egg that close to finish is more likely to survive than fresh egg either way. Egg lifeform denial as it is right now only happens when a marine is spawncamping or finds an alien with it's pants down.

    Plus it gives a little parity since marine weapons aren't likely to be destroyed when a marine dies at an armory.
    Nordic wrote: »
    As a marine would you be able to spawn with a shotgun? I brought that idea up before and many told me it was too strong for base defense. That it would basically make it impossible for skulks to kill ips with spawners. I can imagine a similar argument for spawning with grenades.

    No, the weapons are meant to be sidegrades for starting equipment and shouldn't have the firing power of advanced weaponry.

    With spawning players throwing grenades, the marine still has to switch weapons and throw which is time not being spent shooting the skulk biting his kneecaps off, so I think it balances out.
    Nordic wrote: »
    On glancing bites. I do not think they are new player friendly. I think they only are confusing. I remember new players saying they bit a guy 6 times and he still isn't dead. I remember them complaining when veterans told them that 2 bites 1 parasite killed a marine yet for the newbie this never happened. At best it is a hidden mechanic, at worst it is an annoying thing that does not help a player learn. Veterans did not like not knowing how many bites it would take to kill a marine, because they might miss. I remember @ironhorse having some strong words against glancing bites back then.
    I would rather just buff skulks by widening the default bite radius wider.

    Fair enough, widening the alien attacks would still work favorably I guess and I agree on the half damage being confusing.
  • SamusDroidSamusDroid Colorado Join Date: 2013-05-13 Member: 185219Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,155 mod
    These menus are really pretty. I don't know if the concept would work, but pretty menus!
    My mods --- Watermod collaboration with Feha
    For some reason, the instant you ask players to behave differently to be successful, they associate that with bad mapping. - KungFuDiscoMonkey
    Z5UIr2s.png
    IeptBarakat
  • _Grendel__Grendel_ Join Date: 2015-05-07 Member: 204238Members Posts: 87 Advanced user
    Is that a double barrel pistol on that menu?! I NEED THAT. Is it a concept for a weapon that didn't make it in ever or was it taken out?

    Also these menu's sort of look like the ones in combat.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,676 Advanced user
    _Grendel_ wrote: »
    Is that a double barrel pistol on that menu?! I NEED THAT. Is it a concept for a weapon that didn't make it in ever or was it taken out?

    Also these menu's sort of look like the ones in combat.

    I believe that is the taser concept art that never made it into the game.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
    IeptBarakat
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation Posts: 1,475 Advanced user
    I'd pay $20 for that knife
    mattji104
  • SamusDroidSamusDroid Colorado Join Date: 2013-05-13 Member: 185219Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,155 mod
    The knife is currently a mod and the taser is an unfinished concept
    My mods --- Watermod collaboration with Feha
    For some reason, the instant you ask players to behave differently to be successful, they associate that with bad mapping. - KungFuDiscoMonkey
    Z5UIr2s.png
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