NS2:Combat My toughs about the behavior of the NS2 Community
GhoulofGSG9
Join Date: 2013-03-31 Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts
Join Date: 2013-03-31 Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts
Ok I'll just shortly write down my thoughts about what is going on currently with NS2:Combat:!
This post is not meant as advertisement for Combat and tbh i don't really care if you buy the game or not. What i have a issue with is how some ppl (specially members of the ns2 community) behave when it comes to NS2:Combat!
Okay let's start with how the Combat SA came to live:
Combat has been made by FLG (Faultlinegames) since ever. The guys who made the originally mod decided about a good year ago that they want to try to live out off making games.
Therefor they started to develop a total different game than combat. But then UWE came to them asking if they don't want to make combat into a stand-alone game with UWE's help as publisher.
Of course the Combat team (which had founded FLG at that point) didn't say no, because what better could happen to you as new indie studio than getting a publisher who is willing to publish your first game for fair terms.
Needless to say that they loved combat and therefor were happy to work at it now for living.
Now one year later the Combat:SA has been done and is ready to be bought by you for fair $15. Believe me at a prize of under $10 a gaming dev studio doesn't see anything of that money.
Beside that even so the NS2 CDT is not associated with FLG directly in any way. You can still say that the NS2CDT and FLG are close friends. Most of us do know people from the other side since the early ns2 beta times and therefor you can be sure that in terms of making ns2 overall better we cooperate closely.
Meaning with your purchase of ns2:combat you also support ns2 development because FLG are the only full-time devs working on spark atm. Beside that if you didn't like the mod you don't have to buy it. Nobody forces you to do so!
And imho the ppl playing ns2 and ns2:combat are slightly different. One game is a mix of RTS-FPS and the other FPS-MOBA/DOTA. There might be some ppl enjoying both but i guess overall ns2 won't loose players directly because of ns2:combat!
I guess that we will more gain some ppl discovering ns2:combat and that way ns2.
So after having all of above in mind i have a real issue how many ns2 player behaved against ns2:combat and FLG.
There is no reason why you should down-vote all positive reviews of combat or spam the steam forum about that you are not okay with the release of it. (e.g. my own review about ns2:combat got 1 down vote in under 1 min after i published it-looking at the length of the text that's impossible).
So please behave like adults because what i currently see happening to combat lets me ask myself if i want to be part of this community anymore ( and i guess a lot other ppl around the field of ns2cdt have the same point of view onto this).
You don't need to support FLG or hype Combat, it's also okay saying that you are not willing to support them or pay $15 but stay at least fair.
Because harming a new indie studio just out of the reason that they don't offer you their work of over 1 year work for free is imho disrespectful against all kind of indie developers.
And this all reflects in a really bad way on us all as community!!!
This post is not meant as advertisement for Combat and tbh i don't really care if you buy the game or not. What i have a issue with is how some ppl (specially members of the ns2 community) behave when it comes to NS2:Combat!
Okay let's start with how the Combat SA came to live:
Combat has been made by FLG (Faultlinegames) since ever. The guys who made the originally mod decided about a good year ago that they want to try to live out off making games.
Therefor they started to develop a total different game than combat. But then UWE came to them asking if they don't want to make combat into a stand-alone game with UWE's help as publisher.
Of course the Combat team (which had founded FLG at that point) didn't say no, because what better could happen to you as new indie studio than getting a publisher who is willing to publish your first game for fair terms.
Needless to say that they loved combat and therefor were happy to work at it now for living.
Now one year later the Combat:SA has been done and is ready to be bought by you for fair $15. Believe me at a prize of under $10 a gaming dev studio doesn't see anything of that money.
Beside that even so the NS2 CDT is not associated with FLG directly in any way. You can still say that the NS2CDT and FLG are close friends. Most of us do know people from the other side since the early ns2 beta times and therefor you can be sure that in terms of making ns2 overall better we cooperate closely.
Meaning with your purchase of ns2:combat you also support ns2 development because FLG are the only full-time devs working on spark atm. Beside that if you didn't like the mod you don't have to buy it. Nobody forces you to do so!
And imho the ppl playing ns2 and ns2:combat are slightly different. One game is a mix of RTS-FPS and the other FPS-MOBA/DOTA. There might be some ppl enjoying both but i guess overall ns2 won't loose players directly because of ns2:combat!
I guess that we will more gain some ppl discovering ns2:combat and that way ns2.
So after having all of above in mind i have a real issue how many ns2 player behaved against ns2:combat and FLG.
There is no reason why you should down-vote all positive reviews of combat or spam the steam forum about that you are not okay with the release of it. (e.g. my own review about ns2:combat got 1 down vote in under 1 min after i published it-looking at the length of the text that's impossible).
So please behave like adults because what i currently see happening to combat lets me ask myself if i want to be part of this community anymore ( and i guess a lot other ppl around the field of ns2cdt have the same point of view onto this).
You don't need to support FLG or hype Combat, it's also okay saying that you are not willing to support them or pay $15 but stay at least fair.
Because harming a new indie studio just out of the reason that they don't offer you their work of over 1 year work for free is imho disrespectful against all kind of indie developers.
And this all reflects in a really bad way on us all as community!!!
Comments
Somehow, some people think they deserve everything for nothing....
I think it's largely the people with no understanding of what it takes to make a game, maps and other content, who think like that.
People with an understanding of the process and the work involved would never begrudge anyone the money or success they are due for putting in the effort that FLG have.
Of course, those same over-entitled gamers won't agree with either of our posts, because they feel entitled, regardless of what is said
In my case, I think complaining that the game costs money is ill-informed as well. But I have a LOT of problems with ns2:c despite that. Am I not allowed to voice my opinion on that - because it might hurt the developers? I just want you to clarify please. Because I'm sorry, I want FLG to do well, but I'm not about to help them screw over their consumers by lying through my teeth.
While I have been a vocal opponent and critic of devour, you'll find only positive comments (including constructive criticism) from me on the topic of NS2:Combat. I have enormous respect for FLG and what they have achieved so far is commendable.
I feel that they have been somewhat short changed on launch for combat. It desperately needs promotion, but that is expensive, and it was very likely hurt by the timing of earliest access SN and b270. There hasn't been nearly enough noise made about combat by UWE (at least that I have seen...).
Also entirely agree about the attitude of some of the ns2 community. Baffling.
I'm totally okay with constructive criticism (actually i love it) and i'm also ok with saying that you don't like combat at all. What I'm not okay with is (as i was trying to say with the OP) this behavior of going beyond just stating your opinion.
By spaming it over and over again, bashing anyone being another opinion etc. .
The two statements i personally have a issue with when it comes to Combat:
I personally have issues with combat because it's genre is a basically MOBA and I'm kinda sick of MOBAs. Also yeah it kinda has the same issues like ns2 when it comes to mixing up vets with rookies and everything else around the learning curve.
Beside that it might has some balance issues (haven't played enough to really go there into detail after only 20 h) and certainly it's not optimized as much as it should be. Also some ppl might have issue with the buy-menu. But that depends on your personal taste.
To make it short i don't like when ppl try to force their opinions onto others. I like to have opened and informed discussions and I'm totally okay with everyone having his own opinion. But some ppl just overdid it in the case of combat for to me unknown reason with propagandizing their opinion of that "COMBAT SUCKS".
And all i wanted to aim for with this thread was first informing why there is a combat SA (seems like everyone else miss to do so for the ns2 community) and secondly express my concern of this "forcing your opinion".
Because i feel sorry for FLG. They really tried their best and what they currently receive from a bunch of ns2 players is really not what they deserve.
That's all i wanted to point out with "please be fair to NS2:Combat".
Haven't played the game, and probably won't for a while (short on cash), so I can't objectively say how 'good' or 'bad' it is.
If these guys remembered the ns2 release... it wasn't exactly polished (alpha aside.. not sure if beta has ended). It took years for a company with more money to make ns2 what it is today (for good or for worse... mostly good), so I wasn't expecting a completely polished game from a tiny 'company' in a few months.
I must raise my expectations I guess?
I haven't purchased it here mainly because I'm quite happy with NS2 and after looking into it it's not tempting me any more than skulks with shotguns would.
Petty but it certainly reduces the appeal and the necessity of purchase for me.
I've always enjoyed combat for what it is... but it ran its course of fun for me and I no longer feel the desire to play it. I like NS2 for the RTS/FPS elements, stripped down it just doesn't do that much for me. I wish faultline the best and hope everyone is being supportive. I'll definitely pick it up in the sale to show support... I just cannot afford £10 worth of support atm.
I also agree its not a issue its based on ns2.
All in all they did many positive things with the standalone version.
They also screwed a lot up in my opinion which I will surely post later on, on their forum, with reasoning.
Regardless however with if I agree with choices or not, from a first glance at the mod they DID put a lot of new stuff in it. (I mean in terms of code and features) which the mod did not have. So it is unfair to not recognise the hard work put in.
It is fair to constructive criticize the same hard work.
I have played it and i would rather play ns2, but late night when im tired and theres generally a lack of ns2 players, loadng up ns2-c seems so far like a good way to spend abit of time so i will keep playing it.
Read the three threads on combat here, look at FLG's own forums, just glance at the combat sub forum on reddit, and take a gander at the steam forums and all you will see are negative posts about it being a mod. Even Total Biscuts twitter post about combat is filled with negative comments about combat being a mod even though totalbiscuit said he liked it.
Sure, FLG could have done that with combat, and spent 6 years (like UWE did), building combat from scratch with all new assests and stuff, selling loads of pre-orders, and offerring early access, but there was no need to do that. Instead they worked with the limited time UWE gave them, and released a good product, at a good price.
I think combat may have been more readily accepted if it had dis-associated itself further from UWE and NS2, but then, at the same time, they are the main areas they would pick up early customers.
Either way, it's easy for people like Total Biscuit, and others with less knowledge of the games industry to bitch and moan about a game and it's status, but ultimately, they are hurting a game, and ignoring the work put in by passionate developers. Who cares what assets they re-used, it is about what they did with those assets.
Sure, if the game doesn't stand up by itself, then it falls on those points, but condemning it with, should have been a mod, should be free, and other such crap is disrespectful to the work put in by the developers.
I hate this capitalist sense of entitlement. It's almost like the hate that was spewed for the flappy bird creator because he used green pipes. All of it over-reactive crap coming from idiots trying to destroy someone else who is in the process of achieving something in their life.
Edit: I also just found an incredibly negative post on FLG's forums that was literally titled "hey dipsh*ts." I am sure it will be removed soon.
I playtested a few times Combat before being released and I played again a few hours on the final version of the game. Of course, all the hours gathered cannot reach more than only 15 hours of playtime so excuse me beforehand if for some people it's not enough to give a proper and valuable statement.
I never played NS1 and I get no idea how was the original Combat before so everything I'm going to write and mention here will be from an NS2 player or/and a player in general.
The original mod released on NS2 a few years ago wasn't the kind of mods I was interested to play on. For some reasons, each time I joined a server with the Combat mod turned on, that was always the same games: spawn, run, kill, die, spawn, run, kill and die, etc. Don't say the contrary 'cause this is exactly how the mod worked out at the beginning. A few months later, it was getting better, I started to enjoy Combat for its competitive side, it allows the players to train so much. Learning to aim, to use the lifeforms, your environment and of course the maps, what corners can I use to hide me, or what wall is the best to jump on a Marine, etc. To sum up, an excellent mod for practicing on a few parts of the official maps (co-summit, co-tram, etc) which were very famous anyway. There were already some maps picked up from NS1 (as far as I understood from old NS1 veterans) but those maps weren't my business, the mod didn't make any sense for me except for training. The original goal and objectives of the mod couldn't be qualified as "entertaining" and "fun" from my point of view.
That's why my first thoughts when I heard about making a standalone for Combat didn't make me very impatient or even happy, I wasn't waiting for it but thereafter, I changed my mind about it, the standalone was an awesome idea to convince me to try it out again and maybe bringing me more fun than it did in the past. A few playtesting sessions later, the final answer was NO. Fun? Well it is, especially if you're playing with friends. And it was a way more than the mod itself for some reasons. Entertaining? Probably a tiny bit at least, the game suffered by the same defects as its initial mod on NS2. Repetitious as hell, and spamming the actions: spawn, run, kill and die again and again. What a boring game after playing 2 rounds or so. But it was a few months ago and the project was very promising. Thinking about that made me stop the game and the playtests for a while. I didn't want to put more time in an object that didn't procure me this feeling that some other games do (including NS2).
And here is the official release, after many months of hard work from the developers. I do believe that statement 'cause we can easily notice there are things that have been done during the last months, performances are probably the best example in my opinion. And so what?
The game remains like it was before in its first steps or like it was as a mod on NS2. Funny when you're playing with friends but after a few rounds, looks repetitive and definitely not interesting, hence a quick switch back to NS2 public. Of course, all this represents my own point of view, I didn't enjoy the original mod and so I am with the standalone. Nevertheless, there are currently two modes. Capture the Point is definitely more enjoyable and entertaining than the classic mod but is only a part of these two modes and cannot by itself worth the game.
But that's not all. The new features and everything that have been done to make a different game aren't very important here. I mean, the performances are a way better, less bugs (cannot a confirm this as long as I don't reach a high number of playtime) and a nice interface (loading times, menu or whatever). Those are the most important changes on Combat that occured the last months. What about the rest? New weapons? Abilities? Lifeforms? Maps? Game modes? Graphics and musics?
Actually, no where. Same assets and graphics than NS2. Okay, these ones can be forgiven. A small team of people doing their own game for their love of videogames with a tight budget, a short time cannot allow themselves to make a lot of new assets, props, etc. So, using the same graphics than the vanilla NS2 is completely understandable, really. This said, in this field, nothing at all have been done. Even the skins are the same... (except the fade from NS1?). The Marines skins are the same with different colors... There's a badges system, not sure this is the most important thing when you're releasing a game but why not (at least not in its first stages). Abilities? Oh yeah, there are a few new abilities available for Marines and Aliens (Focus, Hunger) which are limited. Most of the Marines abilities are levels of weapons and armors, structures from NS2 (a few ones), levels of speed and reloading times (catpacks?) and the Aliens got Carapace, Phantom, Adrenaline, Celerity. So yeah, nothing new except 3 abilities or something which are not the most used by the players by the way. That's really too few honestly. Weapons? The HMG made by someone else (not made by FLG at least) renamed to LMG, I recall that the HMG with the same skin is already in the CompMod on NS2. A Cannon, very nice idea and weapon I like it. A knife to replace the hax (counts as new weapon so?) and I think that's all. Of course, all the weapons already availables on NS2 can be purchased in the buy menu in Combat, no worries about that. Lifeforms? Hum... no. Maps? 5 maps from NS1 and already posted on the NS2 Workshop. I knew all of them except the one with the Eclipse assets which is beautiful by the way, probably the best map in Combat. Game modes? Only 2 and one is the Combat mode. The other one named Capture the Point is cool but 2 modes cannot be enough for a standalone game, especially when these mods are so repetitive. I know FLG is working on other modes but the release day was a few days ago.
Okay, the mod is cool and fun. You can maybe feel the passion of the developers into this game. But how you can expect the current NS2 players to invest in another game that looks at 90% to NS2 at this price? 15€? People who bought NS2 and never invest their money in Reinforced, or DLCs or NS2WC at least paid 20€ or something. You want them to purchase another NS2 around the same cost? Not worth it I'm afraid. A DLC would have been excellent, 6€ the DLC for Combat would be interesting and probably makes more sense. But in our current situation, why the NS2 would like to pay again 15euros? You need to persuade them and in my opinion, you didn't. Not enough modes, no new lifeforms (at least one), no new weapons except one, only 2 modes and maps that you already know if you were a fan of the mod on NS2. Nothing different and added if you already own NS2: new structures, new weapons, new lifeforms, new amazing abilities, or even new suprising things that I can't even imagine.
Of course it requires more work, I don't know wether UWE forced you to release the game now and your own choice but you should have worked more to fill these conditions. Even if you're a new player out of the NS2 universe, you will see 15€ a game called NS2: Combat and if you make deeper searches you'll find the original game sold for 6€... Making the game cheaper for those that already got NS2 could have made more sense too. Sure as a company they need to feed their family and get a proper wage but remember that mostly the NS2 players will buy Combat and even if 90% of my Steam friendlist play NS2, only 10% bought Combat (which represents 30 players). So do the math, 150 x 15 < 500 x 7. That's an example but as you mentioned, the NS2 community still represents those that should have purchased the game and all the people whom I talked about the reasons for not buying the game told me the same thing: "I won't buy it to this price, I already own NS2 so I'm waiting for Steam sales or I won't buy it in any case." Stop talking about disrespectful or kind of same words. I do understand why the people wouldn't invest more money in game that is not so different as the original one. There are a lot of people complaining and bitching about that for good reasons. You don't know the community if you're saying that. Let me ask you something. How many NS2 PTs and CDT Members bought the game? (Combat). So think a bit about that because if Combat made a flop that is not for no reasons or because there a few people in the community that acted like retards. I do know many people saying that the disrespectful behavior is from the FLG team for making a copy-pasted of NS2 and a few improvements and asking then to the NS2 playerbase to buy it. Is it true? Is it wrong? That's a good question but everyone can get an opinion and this opinion can be as good as yours even if people disagree with your statement.
I'm a fan of NS2. I've invested in servers in the past, I only gave 10 euros for the Reinforced but purchase every DLCs that the CDT is making for supporting them and their members for their work. Why? Because they've proved me that it was worth it. Which is not the case in Combat. My playtime on NS2 reached 2.500 hours the past week so I really enjoy the game. I even proposed if my help for translating the standalone in French was needed as I did for the vanilla game. I'm also writing and adding french subtitles for the ISE videos for Combat to get a larger audience. I honestly didn't want to write publicly a such negative point of view about Combat 'cause I want it to get better, to grow up, to improve and I want the people to buy it but after reading all these comments here, well, I'm sorry but I needed to post my own feeling about all this despite the impact on the game, which shouldn't be very noticeable on UWE forums and not FLG forums.
tl;dr: read everything or ignore my message.
No.
UWE did.
We get it, you're into competitive ns2. So don't buy it. I dont think the point of this thread was to garner more combat bashing. You also say that all the new stuff isn't important
Then continue to explain... all the new features... I don't get it. You can buy all the new abilities already in the combat mod? No, you can't. I don't get your point other than you wanted to make a stink w/ your opinion which comes off as misinformed and also as though you're looking down your nose at people who enjoy combat.
I think that's part of the problem.. the fact that ns2 players are so passionate about the game, they can be snobby... but it's like trashing your own family. Why would you want combat to do poorly? Why do you have to share your high and mighty opinion as if to further discourage people to buy the game? It's a different game set in the same universe. The mod has ALWAYS been buggy. Broke anytime a new build came out. To me, a separate game was necessary for functional purpose.
Bringing more people to the ns2 universe can only be a good thing, whether you like how they got here or not.
Basically - yes - the combat bashing for it's price point isn't right. I think if you can't afford $15 or less for a game you want to play, then you should find work and earn the right to play it. You pay way more going out for a meal or a night drinking.
I also agree with others though - I think that's where the line in the sand is drawn. People should be entitled to voice their opinion about combat itself, it's separation from NS2, the quality of the game etc. I would hope most of these opinions are presented in a civil fashion, but I also think there is a reason why some passionate people are presenting their opinions in such a way. It's up to the forum mods to determine whether they go overboard in their presentations.
As for people forcing their opinions on others - It would be naive to think we can avoid this common online behavior in this community. Every game will have its detractors, supporters, trolls etc. I think we should be thankful that our online community isn't like LoL or csgo which are far worse. It's all about perspective. I also believe that the average player is also able to make an informed decision themselves without the influence of others.
At the end of the day, gamers will vote with their wallets - this will be the measure of combat's success/failure.
It being a standalone doesnt shake the feeling that it feels like a new few game modes for ns2.
I really hoped that this would be successful and who knows maybe faultlines luck might change with more work but i get the feeling having it as a new update to ns2 with a good steam sale might have earned them more income from ns2 sales during that time
Uhh I agree with you after your first point. Don't. Assume. People. Have. As. Much. Money. As. You. I would like to go off on you because of the comment, but it'd neither help the situation nor make you think differently.
Come on, be realistic here. $15 is not a lot for a game you get to keep forever.
The fact that people are not willing to even spend $15 on this game is the issue and I believe is because:
1. It's not attracting the whole current NS2 community as predicted because combat will always be seen in the community's eyes as a mod and mods are free. Maybe some more press/video of behind the scenes making of Combat would have convinced more people about the effort that went behind it.
2. I don't see any marketing for this game anywhere, how are people meant to stumble across it?
3. The stream marathon got a couple hundred current NS2 players/existing NS2 community people watching. I was surprised to see it wasn't hosted by another bigger gaming community so that you could have attracted some cross-promotion. ie. have a CS:GO streaming community feature the game and give out keys. Why were majority keys given out to existing NS2 players who were going to spend their money on the game anyway.
The concept of Combat, aliens vs marines, asymmetrical shooter from a no NS experience background person is really interesting, but after an hour of game-time the experience is stale. Only more hardcore players will stick it out and feel the game is replay value.
Let's hope FLG find a way to release it on humble bundle and can at least reap some $$$ to recover costs.
Perhaps I used a poor choice of words. My point is if people want to play a certain game that isn't f2p, they will find a way to save for it and buy it. $15 is not a lot to save for in the grand scheme of things. Games like combat are entertainment - typically one would use money saved or money from an income to pay for entertainment - that's all I meant
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There's a lot of things i have a problem with NS:C as it stands, but more or so i feel UWE should have made this mod themselves, and i can't help but agree with so many others how much the game would gain from having these two mods on the same executable and/or server browser. But since that's not the world we live in, i and so many others will just have to move on.
I can't help but feel that people expect combat to exceed or rival classic NS2, in public or competitive. While it is way too early to tell, i call that pretty naive. The game is still on the same Spark engine which limits the experience of so many, that it will certainly remain as a low populated game no matter how much effort is put towards it. We've had dozens of discussions about how NS2 failed and what should be done to revitalize it. Combat is one of those things, even if some choose to not like it.
But i think what Pelargir meant was it has not enough "NEW" content to convince the existing ns2 playerbase to rebuy things that are already in the workshop for regular ns2.
Compared to cs:go that was mentioned we could look at how many THINGS that a new player will initially SEE like maps, wepons and skins when making the purchase.
15€ on a combat mode spinoff is maby a little pricy or is cs:go just THAT cheap and we are spoiled? this is just information visually compared. I am however curious how they justify THIS price.
OP said they worked 1 year and it should not be free surely i understand that but if indie company works 10 years and produce this much content we are surely not asked to pay 150€ right?
If we take just those simple things i could find about the two games, then the pricetag for ns2 combat keeping the content2price ratio for cs +being generous, should land at 5€ tops by comparison.
Shame its not being advertised as much as it should, thats my only beef.
It's source open, not open source there is a big difference!!!
With "copy everything and post it to the ns2 workshop as a mod, do you have a problem with this" you ask someone to break several laws and also harm the copyright of FLG =D> ( next to the fact that this is actually not possible due to the size limits of the workshop )
About this "there's a couple of CDT members on the team working with the combat team, it's almost a conspiracy that the Combat Mod for NS2 ":
That's totally nonsense because actually samusdroid, xdragon and I were the ns2 modders trying to keep the combat mod alive the last year. Three build ago EEM did broke for ns2 and therefor needs fixing to get the combat mod running. (That this would happen at some point was only a matter of time )
That means basically recode most parts of combat (which FLG kinda did to avoid having the same issues with merging ns2 updates) and non of us 3 modders( having all our own mods and busy with projects at cdt + rl) have time to do that.
But everyone who has enough time is free to continue our work at the mod here:https://github.com/AlexHayton/NS2Combat
I agree with you that combat might work better as extension for ns2 instead of a SA but i guess the main reason that did not happen was due to the lack of support of UWE to realize things like steam achievements or matchmaking via steamworks.
So my main issue with your post is as said not that you criticize that ns2:combat is a SA which is legit but that you ask ppl indirect to break laws. Also as said as it is a SA honor that point and review it without directly comparing it to NS2.
Surely you can say in your resume that overall ns2:combat is too much like the parent game and due of the lack of new things you recommend ppl who own ns2 to not buy it and ppl who are interesting to buy it to buy ns2.
If your post/review would have been that way i would have been totally fine with it and i guess also most other community members.
And so what? The point of this thread is to talk about Combat, positively or negatively and as far as I notice in here, that is exactly what the people are doing. You all mentioned the reasons and why the NS2 community do not play Combat and some of them even act like retards on Steam Store or be reviewing the game negatively and rating down all the positive reviews (which is stupid by the way 'cause positive or negative, except if the review isn't argued, it can only be helpful). The NS2 competitive that you raise doesn't make any sense here, I'd like to create competitive events on Combat and watching teams fighting each others on Capture the Point mode, so according your point of view, you're or competitive either Combat?
No, we cannot buy all the abilities in the Combat mod, but around 90%? Worth it? I'm not here to break down Combat but for reacting of such comments like yours which is typically one of the guys who think: "you don't like it? don't buy and skip your path." There are so many people who agree more or less what I said or something close to it. Do you think Combat has been sold enough to be profitable for LFG? No, and that's why there also people giving their opinion nicely to make sure the developers figure out the reasons that their game didn't work out.
If the people enjoy Combat, awesome. I do understand and contrary to you, even if I disagree with that, I understand anyway and won't do anything to persuade them to stop playing, which I will never do because if people like a game, that's cool and that's a good thing for the developers and the players. They bought the game and they're playing Combat. But, I'm here to describe why there are other people who didn't buy it or simply don't like it, is that too hard to figure out? Because you disagree or don't like a game you can skip your path and go away? Is it what you mean? As I said, I didn't want to post publicly my opinion for keeping a image of the game but after taking a look on Steam Graph and on these forums, is that clearly obvious that 95% of the players come from NS2 but only 25% of the current NS2 players bought the game for reasons, you agree or disagree with them you cannot refute these reasons and that's also why my message is on this forum viewed by people who already own the game. If I wanted to "make a stink", don't worry, my message would have been more noticeable and posted on Steam Store, FLG website, and other websites so thank you to stop thinking only positive thoughts about the game should be mentioned here.
Snobby? You're kidding, right? I don't only play NS2. Larger games or even smaller games often sold for the same price than Combat. And you know what? I do enjoy these games even they have been done by independent developers. Trashing my own family? Do you think because I love NS2 I have to love Combat? In this case, allow me to use the same comparaison, my brother never asked me to give him money if I want to see him. I don't want Combat "to do poorly" but I'm explaining the reasons it didn't work, if the game was working perfectly, my bad but it's untrue. But I guess you do prefer to hear only positive reviews and keep thinking NS2 players are too retarded to buy Combat, which is definitely worth it. Probably, but I do not think like that. If there are things to say, I say it even if there are people who disagree with that.
"It's a different game set in the same universe."? That's the issue, because no, it's not a different game for most of the buyers from NS2. And if the mod has always been buggy, blame the Workshop and the Builds (blame UWE and CDT for updating the game by the way).
You got it now? Combat as standalone or Combat mod, I don't really care but in any ways, you have to prove that your game isn't a mod anymore, something that needs to be done on Combat which is definitely too close of vanilla NS2.
Surely people understand that there's more to a game than the amount of content. Why should I buy CSGO when I already own CSS which has a lot of the same maps and weapons and the same gametype. Why should I buy CS at all when I can get all of the TF2 content for free?
I'm not trying to raise dissent here, but just thought I'd answer these silly questions-
CS:GO - completely remade graphics and remodeled maps, matchmaking, competitive ladders, hats that go pew pew, dozens and dozens of new basic hats.
CS<>TF2? - Completely different artwork and gameplay styles, game modes etc.
Dunno why you'd ask these questions, its totally obvious. Strawmen plus comme real men.
Regardless of that minor point, this thread isn't about the merit of people's criticism of NS2:Combat, it's about the way people present that. I've seen some horrendous comments floating about (which I do not want to give any more airtime by linking from here), that essentially say it's absolutely terrible and should not be sold at all. For anyone who has played Combat, this is quite obviously false, and a disproportionately negative overreaction which helps no-one: it's meant only to harm FLG because the author of such comments feels let down.
It is OK not to like a game, it's OK to criticise, but what is shameful is the way that some people leave these comments. Instead of being constructive and presenting a 'here are the good bits, here are the faults' type of review, it's more 'OMG THE WORLD IS ENDING THIS IS TERRIBAD' and frankly that helps no-one. Even worse are comments and/or 'reviews' left by people who haven't played it, but don't like the price. Sorry, if you haven't played it, then your opinion on the content amounts to absolutely NOTHING. Sure, you can say you think it's too expensive - that's fine. But don't say 'It's too expensive and doesn't offer anything new' because until you've played it, you are not in a position to tell others what it offers or not.
My opinion is that Combat is great, albeit with some balance issues in the current build. Others are entitled to their opinions. Just don't spread your opinion around as fact, because the end result is that you cause harm to a company that quite honestly does not deserve that treatment. Especially if you're not even a customer yet!
Finally, I notice something about a price for Evolve around the $60 mark. For a multiplayer only game with high risk of repetitive gameplay, I personally think THAT is expensive. Now sure, there is a world of difference in terms of novel artwork between the two games, but at 4x the price, maybe that's okay...
Looking totally objectively at what you get for NS2:Combat with nicely polished maps, gorgeous artwork and fun gameplay, albeit with some balance issues at present, is $15 for NS2:Combat really too much for what you get? I don't think so - and I've played it. Also, you have a team that is dedicated to making the game better, so compare it to most AAA titles and you've got a pretty decent proposition.
TL;DR By all means be critical, but be objective, constructive and fair in your criticism. If you can't do that, then STFU and stop causing unwarranted harm to FLG.
(PS Pelagir stated his opinions in a perfectly reasonable way - I have no problem with this!)
NS2-Combat this wknd: $14.99 on sale for $13.74
Based on that and some minor Reaper DLC hype, pretty sure NS2 sold more copies this weekend than Combat. Also, in this market, releasing a game during a Halloween sale/Summer Steam sale at near full price is not a good idea unless you already have huge buildup and a massive audience awaiting release. I know I usually troll for games marked at 50% off or more during this time, and hardly give it a second glance if its not. The free Evolve Alpha testing also didn't help.
I remember when they said on stream they had bought enough servers for 2500+ people at launch, I almost spit out my coffee. I thought maybe maxing in around 400-500 was realistic. Not sure who was setting these expectations, but this game was never advertised well enough to a broader audience to get any traction.
I did actually have one friend (former NS1 player) see me playing my free copy and asked me about it and ended up buying it, but I think that was rare. Word of mouth advertising from the current NS2 playerbase (so small already) isn't going to get you very far either (even if everyone absolutely loved the "new" game).