What NS2 needs right now
BeigeAlert
Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
(if you've been to my ns2_temple thread recently, you already know where I'm going with this)
Click on this link right here, and stare at that chart for a good minute or so. http://steamcharts.com/app/4920
We're down to HALF of our playerbase from 6 months ago. HALF. We need to turn this ship around FAST if we want to save this game... at least for a few more years. At the moment, we've got about 8 months to a year tops. Maybe when Combat standalone comes out we'll get a bit of a boost. Maybe... but we can't count on that.
Personally, I think the balance of ns2 has been fine for quite a while now. There's always room for improvement, but it's good enough IMO to where both teams stand an equal chance at having a fair match.
Obviously the problem is player retention. All those spikes on the graph are various sales and free to play weekends. Most folks aren't sticking around too long, and I know why.
First of all, there's the loading times. That's obvious, and I'm sure you guys are working on it, so I won't dwell on that. There's a bigger problem though.
I have a roommate from college who I tried to share the game with, and he played two rounds with me before giving it up. I had another friend who I gave an extra copy of the game to and he joined one game, and left early. I just checked, and he's logged a whopping 18 minutes on it. For comparison, he has 3 hours on Goat Simulator... *facepalm*.
Both games, they got their asses thoroughly licked, and not in a good way. Of course they're going to be bad if it's their first game. The difference is, in a game like Call of Duty for example, you usually KNOW what you did wrong. Oh there was a guy hiding around the corner. Oh I held the grenade too long. You can learn quickly in this way. (Put away your pitchforks, I'm not singing CoD's praises here, it's just an example.) NS2 is a MUCH more complicated game, and unfortunately one that is extremely unforgiving to mistakes (flash your fade, or lose an onos, and there's a good chance your team just lost). My friend was ground lerk-spiking that game. Yea he died REALLY fast, and he probably didn't even know what he did wrong. He can't learn from his mistakes as quickly because it'll be a whole 'nother game before he can actually go lerk again... assuming he plays again after that bad experience, which he didn't.
So there you have it: steep learning curve hurts player retention. Wow Beige... you're so wise in the ways of no-shit-Sherlock. But what's being done about this? Nothing from what I can see. You can make all the training videos and player guides you want, but if a rookie is THAT intimidated by the game, they're not going to stick around long enough to find/care about these resources.
"But Beige, the game HAS a tutorial built-into it!"
The tutorial built into the game is a great way to teach new players about what buttons to push, but not WHY to push those buttons. IMO, the tutorial is woefully inadequate when it comes to actual tactics vs. gameplay mechanics. It teaches rookies to hold "e" to build structures, but doesn't teach them that they need to stick together to be the most effective, and to use the layout of the rooms to their advantage (ie marines = strong at range, aliens = strong in close quarters/darkness).
What I'm suggesting is replacing the in-game tutorial with a MUCH more in-depth series of tutorials called "Bootcamp". (Okay okay, the name isn't important, but that's how I'll be referring to it from now on). This "Bootcamp" will basically be a series of singleplayer (OR multiplayer... more on that later) mini-missions that players complete that are designed to force the player to realize how the game works, rather than simply having a big boring wall of text TELLING the player "do this, do that, etc".
For example, one of the biggest skulk-sins is charging solo at a group of marines down a long hallway. This, of course, ends with them being repeatedly mowed down, and the player likely doesn't know what else to do instead, hence why they keep doing it! So let's have a mission place a marine-bot at the end of a long hallway. This marine has decent aim, and will wipe out the skulk every single time they try to charge straight at them. But there's a vent behind the marine as well, one that the skulk has access to. The game will hint to the skulk to use the vent to approach the marine. The skulk will likely make a lot of noise and STILL get annihilated. This will also teach the rookie the importance of sneaking.
There would be 2-3 missions for each lifeform... perhaps more for the gorge as this is actually quite a complicated class. This would allow the rookie to practice with these lifeforms in real-(ish) situations, without having to worry about losing their life form and spend the rest of the match as a skulk.
Of course, this is no substitute for actually playing the game and refining your skill, this would be designed to get new players up to speed so they're in a position to make better judgements, and most of all, to get an idea of what they could have done differently in a situation.
If you're like me and you try to bring other friends into NS2 and would like to walk them through it, a few of the official servers could be switched over to special "training servers". The problem with sandbox mode right now is that you're alone! And setting up your own server so close friends can join is a baffling ordeal for someone who just wants to play the stinkin' game.
"But Beige, if they didn't watch the training videos, or read the guides, how will this be different?"
Good question. This will be the tricky part. The community as a whole will have to band together on this one. It must be the rookie's choice to do the tutorials. I believe it would be an extremely bad move to FORCE the rookie to play a tutorial before say... having access to the server browser. BUT!!! Here's the kicker: completion, or partial completion of the "boot camp" missions would bestow that player with a small certification. Most servers wouldn't require this, but certainly the higher-skill servers would (this isn't new. Think 250+ hours servers, for example). That's not the main solution I'm referring to, though. The big solution is to have the community peer pressure the new players into completing boot camp before playing on a server. You would be able to tell if a player had finished boot camp or not based on their name color. Finishing boot camp would remove the green text from your name, but wouldn't exclusively remove it. This enables experienced players to encourage rookies to complete the tutorial before playing a normal match. Of course, all of this hinges on "bootcamp" actually being good enough to give the new player confidence in their actions.
Frankly I'd have already started working on this myself if it were not for one unfortunate fact: this CANNOT simply be a mod. There are a few reasons why this cannot work as a simple mod: 1) new players aren't going to seek out any mods, and even if they're referred to them, it's extremely important that the game had already made a good first impression by that time. Kind of a catch-22 there: They would gladly download a mod teaching them to play a game if they had the desire to learn the game, which they would get by already learning the game! 2) The structural and cultural changes this would require to work go well-beyond what a simple mod can accomplish (unless that mod is as popular as NS2+... and I can't expect lightning to strike twice like that!
) In order for this to work, it would have to be in NS2 vanilla, it would have to be in the game when a rookie first starts it up. It would very much have to be part of the game, not just an optional extension.
So, really, this is up to the CDT (and UWE? Not sure of that relationship...) to make this happen. I'm still here, and I would love to help out with this... but I can't do it alone.
Click on this link right here, and stare at that chart for a good minute or so. http://steamcharts.com/app/4920
We're down to HALF of our playerbase from 6 months ago. HALF. We need to turn this ship around FAST if we want to save this game... at least for a few more years. At the moment, we've got about 8 months to a year tops. Maybe when Combat standalone comes out we'll get a bit of a boost. Maybe... but we can't count on that.
Personally, I think the balance of ns2 has been fine for quite a while now. There's always room for improvement, but it's good enough IMO to where both teams stand an equal chance at having a fair match.
Obviously the problem is player retention. All those spikes on the graph are various sales and free to play weekends. Most folks aren't sticking around too long, and I know why.
First of all, there's the loading times. That's obvious, and I'm sure you guys are working on it, so I won't dwell on that. There's a bigger problem though.
I have a roommate from college who I tried to share the game with, and he played two rounds with me before giving it up. I had another friend who I gave an extra copy of the game to and he joined one game, and left early. I just checked, and he's logged a whopping 18 minutes on it. For comparison, he has 3 hours on Goat Simulator... *facepalm*.
Both games, they got their asses thoroughly licked, and not in a good way. Of course they're going to be bad if it's their first game. The difference is, in a game like Call of Duty for example, you usually KNOW what you did wrong. Oh there was a guy hiding around the corner. Oh I held the grenade too long. You can learn quickly in this way. (Put away your pitchforks, I'm not singing CoD's praises here, it's just an example.) NS2 is a MUCH more complicated game, and unfortunately one that is extremely unforgiving to mistakes (flash your fade, or lose an onos, and there's a good chance your team just lost). My friend was ground lerk-spiking that game. Yea he died REALLY fast, and he probably didn't even know what he did wrong. He can't learn from his mistakes as quickly because it'll be a whole 'nother game before he can actually go lerk again... assuming he plays again after that bad experience, which he didn't.
So there you have it: steep learning curve hurts player retention. Wow Beige... you're so wise in the ways of no-shit-Sherlock. But what's being done about this? Nothing from what I can see. You can make all the training videos and player guides you want, but if a rookie is THAT intimidated by the game, they're not going to stick around long enough to find/care about these resources.
"But Beige, the game HAS a tutorial built-into it!"
The tutorial built into the game is a great way to teach new players about what buttons to push, but not WHY to push those buttons. IMO, the tutorial is woefully inadequate when it comes to actual tactics vs. gameplay mechanics. It teaches rookies to hold "e" to build structures, but doesn't teach them that they need to stick together to be the most effective, and to use the layout of the rooms to their advantage (ie marines = strong at range, aliens = strong in close quarters/darkness).
What I'm suggesting is replacing the in-game tutorial with a MUCH more in-depth series of tutorials called "Bootcamp". (Okay okay, the name isn't important, but that's how I'll be referring to it from now on). This "Bootcamp" will basically be a series of singleplayer (OR multiplayer... more on that later) mini-missions that players complete that are designed to force the player to realize how the game works, rather than simply having a big boring wall of text TELLING the player "do this, do that, etc".
For example, one of the biggest skulk-sins is charging solo at a group of marines down a long hallway. This, of course, ends with them being repeatedly mowed down, and the player likely doesn't know what else to do instead, hence why they keep doing it! So let's have a mission place a marine-bot at the end of a long hallway. This marine has decent aim, and will wipe out the skulk every single time they try to charge straight at them. But there's a vent behind the marine as well, one that the skulk has access to. The game will hint to the skulk to use the vent to approach the marine. The skulk will likely make a lot of noise and STILL get annihilated. This will also teach the rookie the importance of sneaking.
There would be 2-3 missions for each lifeform... perhaps more for the gorge as this is actually quite a complicated class. This would allow the rookie to practice with these lifeforms in real-(ish) situations, without having to worry about losing their life form and spend the rest of the match as a skulk.
Of course, this is no substitute for actually playing the game and refining your skill, this would be designed to get new players up to speed so they're in a position to make better judgements, and most of all, to get an idea of what they could have done differently in a situation.
If you're like me and you try to bring other friends into NS2 and would like to walk them through it, a few of the official servers could be switched over to special "training servers". The problem with sandbox mode right now is that you're alone! And setting up your own server so close friends can join is a baffling ordeal for someone who just wants to play the stinkin' game.
"But Beige, if they didn't watch the training videos, or read the guides, how will this be different?"
Good question. This will be the tricky part. The community as a whole will have to band together on this one. It must be the rookie's choice to do the tutorials. I believe it would be an extremely bad move to FORCE the rookie to play a tutorial before say... having access to the server browser. BUT!!! Here's the kicker: completion, or partial completion of the "boot camp" missions would bestow that player with a small certification. Most servers wouldn't require this, but certainly the higher-skill servers would (this isn't new. Think 250+ hours servers, for example). That's not the main solution I'm referring to, though. The big solution is to have the community peer pressure the new players into completing boot camp before playing on a server. You would be able to tell if a player had finished boot camp or not based on their name color. Finishing boot camp would remove the green text from your name, but wouldn't exclusively remove it. This enables experienced players to encourage rookies to complete the tutorial before playing a normal match. Of course, all of this hinges on "bootcamp" actually being good enough to give the new player confidence in their actions.
Frankly I'd have already started working on this myself if it were not for one unfortunate fact: this CANNOT simply be a mod. There are a few reasons why this cannot work as a simple mod: 1) new players aren't going to seek out any mods, and even if they're referred to them, it's extremely important that the game had already made a good first impression by that time. Kind of a catch-22 there: They would gladly download a mod teaching them to play a game if they had the desire to learn the game, which they would get by already learning the game! 2) The structural and cultural changes this would require to work go well-beyond what a simple mod can accomplish (unless that mod is as popular as NS2+... and I can't expect lightning to strike twice like that!
) In order for this to work, it would have to be in NS2 vanilla, it would have to be in the game when a rookie first starts it up. It would very much have to be part of the game, not just an optional extension.So, really, this is up to the CDT (and UWE? Not sure of that relationship...) to make this happen. I'm still here, and I would love to help out with this... but I can't do it alone.
Comments
I'm unwilling to discuss details right now, but I will say these points were raised in the CDT over a month ago by myself and others. And in previous discussions before the CDT took over NS2 development. The problem has always been the amount of man-hours needed to complete this project, and do it at a level where it's even worth making public. Keep in mind, now that the CDT is Official, we have to meet the standard UWE would have set, if they were to do it themselves.
@BeigeAlert Shoot me a PM or add me on Steam, we should talk further.
But don't you see the problem with that? They want to play a game, and there's not many other games out there where you have to sit down and read a small book to learn how to play. Most games, you learn how to play by playing more and more... the problem is, NS2 is currently so unforgiving to rookie players, they have little incentive to push past that and learn the game.
Well alright... but I know nothing about Lua scripting, so I'd need plenty of help. But remember, this entire plan hinges on the ENTIRE community encouraging rookies to DO the tutorials. That doesn't tend to happen if it's JUST a mod. All I'm saying is, this won't be complete in mod-form... official integration would be more involved than just making the mod official. This would essentially be an overhaul of the "rookie" system.
It certainly would be a huge undertaking, but it's the single most important thing to keeping this game alive. Surely that's reason enough to seriously consider this.
I wonder how much help we could enlist from the community.
But the development time and effort required to make such in depth or complicated tutorials like you suggest makes it a rather large undertaking.. and that's costly for something that is statistically skipped by the majority!
I think a better direction would be to keep all the nitty gritty details in video format as they are now because there is a metric ton of details to go over, and the willing fan can invest their time in that already existing infrastructure. People make threads collecting the lists of these nitty gritty details, and even people with a thousand hours don't know about some of them - you just can't adequately cover enough - and the training videos already do most of that work thanks to our community.
So, I personally think a better approach would be an easy to digest, large picture, quick (no more than 5 minutes) and easy to develop interactive tutorial that uses pop up tip videos to instruct along the way.
This would be forced if this is your first night in fight cl- ... Natural selection 2.
After this, you are asked if you would like to complete optional challenges that are strongly recommended before playing or watch those optional training videos.
These challenges could be shooting galleries with incremental rounds of difficulty using # of skulks or higher lifeforms, or having a skulk attempt to beat his best walljump timing around summit, and demonstrating how to do so by using ghost model teammates to mimic their movement and positioning (think HL1 tutorial) possibly just with bots and waypoints. (triggers are needed obviously)
The final touch is this: Utilizing pop ups, the player is strongly and annoyingly advised against joining a server with a higher skill level - a system that we can now rely on - OR one that isn't "Rookie Only" - as long as this player has yet to complete these optional challenges.
A proper environment is provided which ensures first time players learn the basics, have fun, aren't inundated or stomped, and can optionally learn more - an effective tutorial made for the generation where 90% of people cannot complete the first level of super mario bros..
X_X
Also, it's so late in the game's life at this point. If there had been a tutorial in the game from day 1 instead of "hey check out these YouTube videos" it might have helped, but at this point there probably isn't going to be a huge influx of new players to teach. Most of those players have already been turned off from the game.
The goal of the mini-missions isn't to turn them into a pro, it's to provide them with enough understanding to where they'll actually want to play the game more. As it is now, rookie starts the game, gets blasted in the face with a server browser full of a bunch of names they don't know how to distinguish... except maybe the green ones are friendlier? (not necessarily...
The problem with videos is that you can't really learn how to wall-jump by just watching a video, you gotta feel it. And I can't speak for every player of course, but most want to just play the darn game, not watch a video or read a guide. These missions would be designed to be fun, not just a boring tutorial like the one in the game now (do this... do that... don't worry, you can't die! except you totally can! XD )
And no, the popup tip videos were the single most annoying thing ever in this game. All I ever heard from other players was "how do I turn off the videos???".
The whole idea of this is that it wouldn't be skipped by the majority, because every single player recommends it. That's the tricky part right there, is getting enough experienced players to be able to peer pressure new players into actually doing the tutorials. They wouldn't take very long at all to finish.
These "optional challenges" you're talking about is actually pretty close to what I had in mind. Things like: teach the player to flank by providing an obvious vent leading into a hallway that marines have locked down.
ALSO... communicate it right. This is not your average casual game. It's a god damn sport. It's FAR more e-sport that Dota or CoD. If you get this in the heads it'll MAY get the attention it deserves and the throne in the Hall of Fame.
We have the Replay System. Everybody can send a 30 MB File to the dude editing. You'll have EVERY View. Put 2 good specs in place for the totals and you have a piece of entertainment CS, COD, hell not even Star Craft can compete with.
Is it utilized? No... earn ppl money with it? NO
We won't get the attention from UWE anymore so it's up to the community to find sponsors and setting everything up. (Events - online and physical, Prize money)
Ppl want the best! Let's give it to em!
Everybody who's in join the Hellarious Basterds Group on steam! It's not much but a start. Maybe we can pull something off and "addvertise like shameless whores" -Jesse Cox
Hellrunner out!
PS: It's the Year of asymetrical casual shiz. Let's show em REAL asymetrical WARFARE to the MAX
PSS: how can you dissagree with that? pls post reasons you trolls!
In NS1 there were three game modes. Regular, combat, and siege. Siege somehow outlasted the other two in terms of loyalty. I guess i'm not really offering any insight here to the resolution which NS2 requires. But hey, maybe this is just the fate of the franchise. Having only a small and loyal community.
Also, what happened to NS2 siege?
Better yet a "rookie mode for server".
What's the situation now?
We have now some elements of the competitive scene for the Khammander. Not bad as it is the only way to use all the little stuff in there (public server).
In real competitive scene the Khammander don't have many options.
-Not using it (only able to upgrade Bile and Metabolize++) because of a lack of resource income. And hope.
-Not using it because the alien team finds out a way to get on top and are already playing in marine base while you can only do the 2 or 3rd RT (no time).
-Avoiding a base rush...
Basically we have a public stuff that don't really change from the competitive scene anymore. In fact it never really did. A while ago as tactics and strategies where mostly the same except it was faster and more efficient than public scene.
What good would it be with a tutorial like boot camp ?
I proposed a long time ago to be able to buy your shotgun / fade again but for a much lower price (5 pts max). So if you die, you can get in the game again for a lower price. It's not infinite as you have to buy again each time you respawn.
This rookie mode would clearly helps the rookie to train better / longer. And most of all it wouldn't tag "fresh meat" on their asses with a green color.
It would be :
A/ Rookie-mode (not that name of course) servers :
-Ability to buy the last weapon/lifeform for a cheap price.
-Modification of things as to make them less efficient if a related building is down.
ex: jet pack wouldn't work the same (less juice in it) if Prototype lab is down.
Many stuff of this kind that creates a need to understand. Because this guy wants his JP gear to work better.
-Games would be longer but they're all rookies (who cares) so a time limit of 30 minutes before changing map will suffice. Any map would fit.
-It wouldn't be combat that is just frag count.
-Server selection locked on rookie mode for the first 2 hours of playing. Instead of a fresh meat tag
B/ Standard mode
which would be also the competitive.
We don't really need more except a thing or two to make sure every team can make the early developments (res income/first upgrade).
Rookies won't be impressed buy old timer as there would be none in these server (except experimented willing to help). When they join regular server they have the minimal knowledge. They can train as much as they want with a decent fun. It's achievable as it is a set of modifications to the game rules. We saw many many modification lately right ?
Tuts are fine, "but gamers wants play on the internetS".
Limited matchmaking is somewhat accomplished with the 'quick join' function, but they're still many levels of players on that server. I would love to see a matchmaking system like Starcraft 2 has, but realistically the player base isn't even close to being large enough to support that kind of functionality. NS2 is a niche game (along with NS1 before it) with its heavy emphasis on teamwork, coupled with a lot of depth that most gamers won't stick around to learn.
NS2 is probably due for a free weekend regardless though, especially in the holiday months (Late November/December) as more people tend to be playing.
NS1 used the ancient half-life engine, which meant that pretty much everybody could run the game, which helped. It was also free. I don't think the maps in NS2 are boring, but I would love to see more dynamic things built into them that NS1 had (weldables), along with other dynamic events.
No minor tweak or tutorial will bring a surge of new players.
The best thing to do is make sure there are no bugs in new patches and avoid major gameplay changes. I appreciate the CDT's effort, but lots of people are having problems with 268.
The last build has major change in it.
Please take a look at this:
http://wiki.unknownworlds.com/ns2/Map_Index
We have a shitload of maps. Both official and custom ones. The thing is: No one plays them. Especially the custom maps. You will say that most are abandoned and/or imbalanced. Do you know why? Because it's frikking hard to get feedback on the balance of your map if no one plays it.
We had siege maps. They never took off.
We had Combat. Mediocre success, now gets a standalone.
We had TOW maps. Neither took off.
We have mods like factions, skulks with shotguns (again with various maps), a bunch of stuff Soulrider came up with...
Do you notice a pattern here?
Anyway, on topic:
If you pull this bootcamp through, I suggest giving everyone who hasn't completed it an orange name. Or better yet, a special non-removable badge to distinguish between greenies and non-bootcampies.
But frankly, it's too late. Everyone who might be interested in ns2 has already tried it and gave up. If you want new players, tutorials are not going to help if there's no attention (say, from the media). And you won't get this kind of attention for a two year old game
edit: forgot a word
Don't worry, the Super Mario Bros thing is not true. It's satire that was taken for a real article. However, there is no denying that games are getting easier.
PS: seriously, read my post above
I instantly fell in love with the game, but I was one of the worst noobs you have ever seen. I was really willing to learn and to follow orders, but I was completely unable to kill a single skulk bot.
I used to play at the "Marine Training Facility" where we played 3-5 marine players against the same number of alien bots +1. That was really important to me, because that was to me a real tutorial of the game.
When you start playing such a complex game like this one with a small playerbase that forces you to play against super-vets at every single match, you get really discouraged and you don't really learn anything about map awareness and movement. We all know how unforgiving to little mistakes is this game. Having the possibility to play a cooperative PVE match encouraged me to improve my play to better help my team, instead of making me feel like a burden to my team because I was a "noob" and unable to play properly (which is what happens in PvP)
I think that using one official server for players to start fighting against bots could be a much simpler and immediate solution than to create a complete tutorial... Never force them to play in there, but give them the possibility.
No one wants to play alone against bots, but they will enjoy playing a cooperative game.
I don't know, that's just my experience...
PS: I loved NS2 siege maps, they only needed to improve a little the balance. The problem is that there are no servers running them anymore
PS: I'm one of the few Kodiak lovers, btw ^^
Truthfully, i agree bunnyhopping is the stupidest looking thing in NS2.
A 2nd key i gave to another friend, he tried it a few times and gave up. Lack of fun.
Also adding these pub friendly modes (Combat, Last Stand etc...) will not have these players convert to the NS2 game itself. They like their one man army routine or jump in no strings attached short game rounds bursts... These days due to time constraints I prefer the short burst games as well... These modes could potentially increase that server/player count on the Steam charts so it looks like people are playing NS2 :P
If you decapitate a thief 8 more quit stealing imediately
Like I said earlier.. it's the YEAR of asymetric multiplayer... Casual shiz... there ARE ppl who would kill for the challenge, the just don't KNOW about NS2... YouTube would change that. no tut vids. REALY funny rounds with crazy ppl that have nice personalitys. Or even some preGame madness.