Bandaid Mod- IT'S THE NATURAL SOLUTION TOO!
Howser
UK Join Date: 2010-02-08 Member: 70488Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
UK Join Date: 2010-02-08 Member: 70488Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
The new mod for the makers of Skulks with Shotguns....
The first build of our alternative NS2 'fix' Mod has been release on the workshop.
The Pillars of the mods design are to:
1) Remove common annoyances from the game
2) Make matches more interesting and varied by revising redundant or underused upgrades
3) Improve any underdeveloped or weak features
4) Improve readability and Streamline awkward elements
This is not a competitive balance mod but rather our alternative take on how NS2 should be. Our target Audience is the none-competitive players (like ourselves) who play on public, 12 to 20 player servers. Balance has been careful considered but our opinions are based off 1000's of hours of play on pub or open team games. We've taken ideas from many different sources (including these forums) to find and fix the main frustrations people complain about.
The first build mainly consists of small/easy changes and tweaks:
*Revised LMG shooting sounds and effects - Increased the amount of visual and audio contrast between weapons levels
*Marine bunny hopping reduces momentum
*Reduced reliance on skulk wall jumping - Base speed increased, max speed remains the same
*Skulk health reduced- takes one less bullet
*Med-pack Heal time and amount increased, with cool down period- Reduces effectiveness of med pack spam
*Classic exo's restored (cannot be cat-packed)
*Web starting item for gorge- Cost no res but use a large amount of stamina and limited to three
It's still very much WIP but our first test was very positive. We would love to hear your feedback once you've played the mod.
We've got a lot of things we want to experiment with so watch this space!
Comments
I'm not a fan of the new lmg sound, however. There are 50 bullets in that gun, but the new sound doesn't sound like 50 shots fired.
Floor skulking is already too much of an issue
2. That gorge is still giving me the finger paw foot ...whatever it is, it's giving it to me.
3. You know my opinion about the mod. (Short summary: Exo yay!, skulk woosh, LMG lol, pgs wat.)
Thank you.
Switcharoo, feel free to debate. If you have in game feedback go to http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/135029/bandaid-mod-experiences-bugs-and-feature-requests
The skill level required to effectively walljump is beyond the the group that still roams floors. It doesn't solve floor skulking, it just creates another skill gap!
So what does that leave us? Skulks that handle like a brick while traversing walls and ceilings, and are generally unpleasant to maneuver. That's one great motivator to stay off the floors! High speed is easily achievable for veteran players, but we want movement to be /at least/ pleasant and intuitive for everyone else.
On our server some players never mastered the skill. To be honest, the game lacks proper feedback and training. I might not be one of the brightest, but it I only figured out how the sounds fit into the walljumping after hundreds of hours NS2. @Flaterectomy can attest to that.
So we bumped up base speed slightly, while retaining walljumping. So far it's been praised as one of the favorite changes. The gun sounds however..
We believe NS2 has sacrificed a bit too much fun in the drive towards balanced competitive gameplay, and has been put into hiatus in the middle of some balance changes. I'm certain it'll be a while before the community dev team will touch balance in any significant fashion. We need some way to keep the game fresh and fun for our own selfish reasons, to keep the SCC maptests going.
This mod is our hail mary in a way, with a pragmatic mission: Deal with the biggest frustrations in the cheapest way possible, keep the weekly tests fun, avoid invasive changes, but don't get bogged into passivity by balance discussions. With the alien tech tree and some of the alien classes damaged as they are there is no direction but up.
Personally, I'm pretty sure so many people will disagree with me but I do not think having different mods that change the gameplay is a good thing for the game itself. We have the vanilla game, and recently, the CompMod was created for the competitive community, I admit I like the last one more than the vanilla one regarding balancing. Your idea is helpful & definitely interesting because it could be a better mod, maybe you can take better decisions, do this or this contrary to such other balance mod could be appreciated by the community (none or competitive, no matter) but, even if CDT plans to work on this, I do not think creating of so many mods depending of your point of view about the gameplay is a great thing.
Everybody is actually trying to make his own balance mod, throw away the original game (I did not say it's the best for sure) and make a competitive mod, and now, another community mod.
I hate the idea, but it doesn't mean your mod could be funny to play with or something, and I'm pretty curious to find out how it looks like, I'm usually playing on CompMod servers so yeah, must be refreshing at least.
Good luck anyhow, and hope I'll find a server to test it as soon as possible!
As for the LMG effects they're still WIP we'll get there...
I actually think most of the changes in comp mod would increase fun for all players of NS2. Such as reduced lifeform cost if you lose your lifeform and viable fade abilites. Probably much more, but I'm too lazy to look through it at the moment.
We see a lot of parallels between our todo list and @rantology 's excellent compmod writeup, like alien tech tree and the fades.
While our goals may overlap, there's always going to be a disparity between what works for 6v6 competitive games versus larger teams of casual players. Vanilla's is already significantly competitively focused out of the box.
That said, I see no reason for us to double up any efforts on fixing the big picture, so we'll probably stick with the quick wins and immediate annoyances of non competitive players. (Besides @Howser's obsession with the trifacegate).
For now we'll be running this mod every sunday playtest as long as it meets its goal of making the game more fun. Who knows, we'll probably mix it up with compmod and vanilla. Other server admins picking it up would be great, but we're happy just tailoring to our immediate audience..
Don't worry, @Flaterectomy is slapping wet towels against the wall for new gun sounds as we speak!
As for the playerbase needing it -- mods help the community to grow and stay active. If the game wasn't moddable, and the people who enjoy this style of play couldn't enjoy it, they may not be playing at all. Our community would be smaller.
My concern with this kind of change is, that is barely going to help rookies, but it's going to make a huge impact for comp players. So imo this is going against what you're trying to achieve as @halfofaheaven put it.
It's understandable you want to let your opinions known, but none of the authors are going to dive into any balance or phylosophical debates here. Opinions differ.
This thread exists for actual gameplay feedback on the mod, like stated in OP. Play the mod first before posting on this thread and keep it related to in game bugs and issues, or start a different thread, and we'll be happy to respond.
(One of the forum admins moved this thread to the general forum from modding, so that might be what's confusing he issue unintentionally)
Try it before you judge, chaps!
Remember how skulks felt before the brick-skulk patch? And how even when they fixed the brick-skulks, skulks never quite felt as agile and fluid as they were before?
Yeah, skulks feel reeeal nice with this mod. Like, release build good.
I dont think it'll have an effect on rookies and walljumping at all, and it is certainly a large buff for higher levels of play, which I'd imagine the HP reduction is meant to combat. So point conceded on this, but dudes - try it, you might just love it
That was meeee
How about - Webs cost 3 res, like hydras. You can place a maximum of 3 per hive (or 1 per biomass?).
That'd stop early game gorges turning into map-control-controllers with buffed hydras, a tunnel and 3 webs in one location. Can you imagine if two of them got together at a natural tech point? It's bad enough as it is, being forced to research grenades :P
That freaking game on sunday though. THRONE ROOM OH MY GOD THRONE ROOM. Much fun was had
How does that make sense?
On a side note, I personally think it is a huge waste of time when people take on these "righteous projects", but to each their own and I wish you luck. If you did in fact make the Skulks With Shotguns, props to that it looked pretty fun even though I never tried it and it was at least a good idea at the start.
The minimum marine movement speed after chain jumping feels rather too punishing.
Skulks could benefit from a "(floor) hopping" speed boost mechanism rather than a flat speed increase. This would encourage new aliens to start jumping and naturally transition to wall jumping learning later (they may even discover it on their own!). The Skulk HP change could be undone.
Slightly reduced gravity (and jump acceleration) might be worth a try (I suggest around -18 gravity). It would make players feel more "floaty" and the jump animations look less abrupt (easier to track) and unnatural. (Look in Mixins\JumpMoveMixin.lua and Player.lua)
Edit: Feedback thread: http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/135029/bandaid-mod-experiences-bugs-and-feature-requests
Quick roundup on answers:
* Mod cost us about two evenings to make, so very little effort there. We typically invest a lot of time on weekly playtests so it's not a big deal.
* It does not tailor to competitive vs competive games, but it does retain most of the aspects that give a skilled player advantage. It just does it in a way that the rest of the players aren't victimized.
* Higher base speed in our tests /does/ make the game more accessible for new players.
* This mod is a quick bandaid to things we perceive broken. I'd say a mod that fixes gameplay for the majority of players is more deserving of the title than a mod that would tailor to the select few. Plus it's hardly like we falsely advertise it in the description.
Is that your experience after playing the mod?
Could do that, would have to see how we can unify that with higher velocity on walls and ceilings.
Sounds like an easy tweak, certainly worth a try.
Thanks for the constructive feedback!
This isn't meant to be some kind of big game fixer for everyone; this will not pollute the serversphere and cause a schism. We simply are trying out some alterations and if they're improving the experience for us, then yay! If any of these ideas turn out really well, perhaps their reception will naturally reverb along the proper channels. More ideas are never a bad thing, and neither are more mods.
And yes, I made the LMG sound in half an hour. It'll be fine-tuned further. :P
Teehee, It was posted in the modding forum! Admins moved it around outside our control. All fine now though, we've done a switcheroo and made this the debate thread. :P
*Revised LMG shooting sounds and effects - Increased the amount of visual and audio contrast between weapons levels
- Personal prefference I guess. Should make it optional like ns2+ does.
*Marine bunny hopping reduces momentum
- Im not getting in this beehive. We have whole topics on this matter.
*Reduced reliance on skulk wall jumping - Base speed increased, max speed remains the same
- Unneeded. Ive seen enough greens, even recently, to know the only thing they need to walljump is a little bit of advice. The instant they succeed in some wall jumping they usually go like 'ooooh' and will soon happily hop around the map, grateful for things learned. We could argue that without someone explaining it to them this ability is much harder to learn.
Also do not forget that base speed scales with player skill. I mean that a veteran has the same higher base speed. Upping the ability to ambush and kill of anyone when not in a jump, for any veteran player. Usually in such situations movement is to short to gain max speed, so any increase in starter speed is a buff for both rookies and vets, and I severely doubt vets need any buff.
*Skulk health reduced- takes one less bullet
- Why? It wil not benefit any rookie learning to move quickly. A vet would not get hit enough in the first place.
*Med-pack Heal time and amount increased, with cool down period- Reduces effectiveness of med pack spam
- meds costs res. Best counter is biting RTs. Something aliens should do.
*Classic exo's restored (cannot be cat-packed)
- You mean we can catpack exo's right now in vanilla? /amazed. (I didnt know)
*Web starting item for gorge- Cost no res but use a large amount of stamina and limited to three
- considering the absolute uselessness of webs... I am inclined to see reason on this one.
But we have YET another gamemod changing 'only' small stuff.
Personal gripe of one of the devs.
The hyperfocus of this thread is on this feature, but it really isn't that big of an increase. Just enough to make skulks movement feel pleasant. We'll just experiment with it a bit further though.
One less bullet compensates the higher sustainable speed in close combat and promotes an ambush playstyle. Can't say if it's working out without playing more, for now it feels like it fits.
The general assumption seems to be we're trying to put greens and veterans on equal level, which is not what this mod is about. Vets are a fact of life, as are greens that do not turn around when bitten in the back. The playing field consists mainly of people in between those two groups.
So all we need to do to fix balance in this game is bite res, since that buys all the broken trinkets. Seems a bit like a cop out
Comm ability to throw a fight for a few moments is fine, but being able to spam it was voted on as a major gripe, especially with comms that have perfect aim. There are some changes planned that make the medpacks easier to deploy
Jetpack + shotty, why go anything else. XD
You'd be amazed, having webs early game means you can make a more effective killbox or preplan your escape by webbing up a rear exit. Later in game it's definitely useless. Dropping the biomass level was really cheap to code, so this is an improvement over not having it used at all.
Do you know how to deal with a marine that's getting medded lots?
Bite him twice. In a row. The comm cannot outmed your DPS unless you're missing bites. Once the marine's armour is gone, he will last 2 consecutive bites tops.