Maybe on rookie sales, lower the player count a bit (sorry tick, you're free to do as you like but vets will keep on your ass abt server size).
And, honestly, I don't see these sales hurting anything. If all the greens leave, more will come (and we will still be playing either way). This really only hurts vets' brains for a while.
I think the biggest detriment isn't always the community but the fact that there is only one game mode to this game. It is nice in the respect that the game requires a lot of knowledge about game mechanics. The more you know about the intricacies of the game the better player you become and they aren't always intuitive mechanics. Take a look at other FPS and their multiple game modes, some require more teamwork then others. But I don't know it would be nice to showcase how the game works better then the forged in fire method we have.
It would be really swell if there was another game mode that utilized the same maps and was almost a dumbed down version of NS, but not quite combat yet either. Maybe something involving tasks/quests. Marines have to go and hold skylights for 1 minute, aliens have to hold and defend system waypointing. Then score is settled like hockey/soccer except the goal is to complete tasks.
I think the biggest detriment isn't always the community but the fact that there is only one game mode to this game. It is nice in the respect that the game requires a lot of knowledge about game mechanics. The more you know about the intricacies of the game the better player you become and they aren't always intuitive mechanics. Take a look at other FPS and their multiple game modes, some require more teamwork then others. But I don't know it would be nice to showcase how the game works better then the forged in fire method we have.
It would be really swell if there was another game mode that utilized the same maps and was almost a dumbed down version of NS, but not quite combat yet either. Maybe something involving tasks/quests. Marines have to go and hold skylights for 1 minute, aliens have to hold and defend system waypointing. Then score is settled like hockey/soccer except the goal is to complete tasks.
A tutorial would solve the issue, but that's a lot of shit to do.
Anyhow, I haven't seen too many greens yet.... maybe Saturday night... neway, the ones I played with actually listened to ppls advice. One guy, I was healing him as a gorge, was a lerk and harassed the hell out of marines with bite and spike (didnt kill a ton, but still held them back). Green with 30 hrs. Love that shit. Also appreciated the heals n said thx.
I feel like less people are buying this game during the deals, but the ones that do are suitable for the game. I find that as a positive.
If that were the case people wouldn't be filling them up every night. You and I are both entitled to our opinions, but the facts speak for themselves. People find them fun and enjoyable. And if they do, that's great! They're staying. And then when they join smaller servers, they get a less casual and more serious game and they can choose what style the prefer to play.
If people used logic and common sense, the world wouldn't be what it is today.
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
edited June 2014
Btw: The only effect of these steamsales are:
Vets who gets bored about one horrible game after another playing other games while new players taking there place.
- So we have vets that dont play anymore.
- Rookies stop playing after a view rounds cause reasons discussed here before
In the end we have an lower playerammmount like before the sale plus the quality of the games go down.
Maybe the sales are one of the reasons the game is losing players constantly?
Only a crazy theory.
Greens should be encouraged to play combat mod in the beginning, to get to know all the weapons and lifeforms. There you dont have the RTS element, that usually leads to one side being superior over the other pretty quickly. This distorts the feedback new players get, thinking they do worse than they actually do (just because the enemy economy is superior). Resulting in faster frustration.
The issue is that combat mod is breaking every day to multiple times a day b/c it requires custom maps. As the steam servers are overloaded the workshop is going down more often and killing full combat games on map changes and leaving the server dead in the water.
While combat can be good for new players nothing kills their experience more than being dropped from a server on a map change b/c YEARS after the release the developers STILL REFUSE to even acknowledge that this is a real problem.
If NS2 had an integrated redundancy to retry when it has these workshop errors rather than just go, oh valve has decided our game does not work now and so this server is now disabled until the server admin sees it and flips out, it would be a much better experience for players as they could just continue to play the game rather than be kicked in the middle of a map change for a stupid error caused by the workshop going down yet again.
I still and likely never will understand why anyone thinks that the situation with the existing workshop ingratiation is acceptable to players. Either they just do not care or do not truly understand what it is that I am complaining about. But this is a very fundamental function of the game that has never worked and continues to turn away new players and endlessly frustrate the existing players.
It would be like building a solar powered car that 100% stops on a dime if it is not in direct sunlight killing its occupants. Unless the light of the workshop continuously falls on it then the product is doomed to die at any moment. No one would ever do this you would have redundancy so that for the short moment you need to pass under a shadow your entire vehicle does not crash and burn. Yet with this game as soon as the light of the workshop goes out for a moment when your currently on the road loading a map change your dead.
@ZEROibis I'm sure I read once that this wasn't going to get fixed 'because its an engine problem'.
I also recall hearing that line about certain other things that turned out to be not engine based problems.
Maybe someone in the CDT can figure out how to write a couple of lines of code to get the workshop to retry on failure or at least give users some feedback about what went wrong and the party responsible.
It's cool, let them join. Rookie rounds are actually more fun when the objective isn't to rush the opposing team and spawncamp and/or deprive of resources. Where as instead there's actual intention of a fun round lasting of length whether or not lacking of teamwork. The teams flaws are easily, heavily pointed out with optimism and quotes of "this is my first round".
I've counted about a dozen times that I walk straight up to a marine as a skulk when they are building...i mean floor-skulk-direct-line-of-sight.....sat on the extractor/powernode chuckled 3 times, then bit an killed them once they started to move away from me.
I think the biggest detriment isn't always the community but the fact that there is only one game mode to this game. It is nice in the respect that the game requires a lot of knowledge about game mechanics. The more you know about the intricacies of the game the better player you become and they aren't always intuitive mechanics. Take a look at other FPS and their multiple game modes, some require more teamwork then others. But I don't know it would be nice to showcase how the game works better then the forged in fire method we have.
It would be really swell if there was another game mode that utilized the same maps and was almost a dumbed down version of NS, but not quite combat yet either.
What many don't realise is that large servers (24+) already provide this service. New players can learn the game, the maps, the mechanics without the pressure to perform, providing an experience closer to combat but no where near as one-dimensional, and without dumbing the game down. It's the ideal learning environment.
Yesterday the peak was around 850. That's a 1000 new players playing thanks to the flash sale.
So as per the original intention of this thread, say hello, help them out, show them the ropes, don't stomp and don't stack. If they enjoy their time, they'll help our community to grow and there'll be more regular players for games, and more vets too down the track for pugs and comp.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
Huge influx of greens! Commanding all night..
If you're a vet.. command.. even if you're not good. These players just need a bit of direction and reminders (press B to evolve, use upgrades, yada yada yada)
Lots of positive reception from players with this approach (since most full teams of green stay silent and fumble around) and tons of people congratulating each other after rounds.
Now is your chance to help expand the playerbase
What many don't realise is that large servers (24+) already provide this service. New players can learn the game, the maps, the mechanics without the pressure to perform, providing an experience closer to combat but no where near as one-dimensional, and without dumbing the game down. It's the ideal learning environment.
Thats what i said:
They learn the wrong gameplay from the beginning on a 42 slot server.
A server where positioning, aim, and mapawareness are useless + the horrible performance is the ideal learning enviroment? cmon
A server where positioning, aim, and mapawareness are useless + the horrible performance is the ideal learning enviroment? cmon
Minus the performance issues, yes actually. For the rookie that just picked up the game, they shouldn't be expected to get right into all the details about positioning, aim can only improve with practice, and mapawareness isn't quite as important then. They can still learn these things, just extremely slowly while they grow accustomed to the feel of the mechanics for the game.
In general I'd say that games are picked up in this order:
Yea, the 42 player deal is player v server rage. So it's used as a hyperbole. (Look at his post above that)
But on 24-20 player servers, there can be some strategy. It may not be as graceful lol but neither will the enemy response. A lot of rookies seem to play on these servers just to learn the basics and get ahold of the movement.
I don't often play on 6 v 6 servers so idk how many greens play in them. Not going to get into the balance and performance debate.
Games are more forgiving (unless bad stack), and can lead to more fun. But they may last longer and make people have to quit early due to rl.
Joined a server with 18 Rookies, whew tough commanding that xD
I find commanding marines quite easy if both teams consist of rookies. You can med them and give them waypoints so they know where to go. They even asked me for orders after the order was complete.
I was so proud of them.
P.S.
Sadly we won after 10 min since the alien commander was meh.
Joined a 16slot server yesterday. Game had just started (~3min on Summit).
Couldn't help but appreciate the usual distribution: Marines 100% green,
while aliens only have 1 (or 2?) greens, majority of whites and even a couple of comm/reinforcement badgers.
After a sigh I try to mentally prepare myself for a complete and utter defeat within the next 15 minutes and join marines.
Situation is pretty grim. We only got 2 RTs, our start is Data. Comm is completely clueless. Nobody got a mic. Whole groups of marines lose engagements and vanish.
I walk down to Sub. After trying to convince the comm to drop an RT for a whopping 5 minutes, I take over commanding.
Alien comm is decent, lots of experience; way more annoying are the smart skulks, though. They constantly take down our hinterland extractors. Real PITA.
In fact, aliens already established their 2nd hive in Cross and are well on their way to rake in the money for the bigger lifeforms.
I instruct a bunch of marines to go on a Tour de Res, break through the alien forward base in Comp, build a PG and some sentries there and, miraculously, they even make it to Flight where the 3rd hive is growing. I beacon, tell everybody to use that PG and go to Flight to take that hive down. ~50% of the marines find the PG, the rest goes to Cross or RC...
Somehow (with the aid of medkits), we manage to shoot it down. After that we build PG and some sentries in Flight. Although aliens keep holding onto Cross for the first time in this game we are a threat to their economy, too. Some marines attack Crevice and Reactor, we even manage to build some sentries in RC.
While aliens keep hitting Comp, Vent and Sub constantly, we finally are receiving some dough.
Then aliens get bile. Some smartass gorges kill off all our sentries and aid in taking down our economy. Lots of small scale rushes, I have to leave chair to put out the burning fire in Flight.
Then the big alien rush happens: 2 oni, lerks and bilebombers are attacking Data while 95% of the marines are wandering around the map.
Luckily, my beacon comes just in time before the node goes down. Without my intervention, the rookie rines would've been toast after THIS coordinated attack for certain. We even shoot down 1 onos right on the spot.
Luckily, aliens don't coordinate that well again.
We also achieve full upgrade status, jetpacks and exos.
Rookie: "Research exos pls"
Me: "Research microphone pls"
With a metric shit ton of health, 2 exos, personal welder macs and nanoshield, marines manage to take down Atrium while aliens cut us down to 1 RT.
After a rebuild and several tries in vain we eventually take down the Cross hive as well.
Hi Guys,
I am one of those nasty greens who bought game on sale and will be spoiling your pleasure because of being so noobish
I've played only few hours but i can say that this game is awesom.
Quick question - are there any clans/groups playing organised games?
Comments
I don't like being collateral damage
It would be really swell if there was another game mode that utilized the same maps and was almost a dumbed down version of NS, but not quite combat yet either. Maybe something involving tasks/quests. Marines have to go and hold skylights for 1 minute, aliens have to hold and defend system waypointing. Then score is settled like hockey/soccer except the goal is to complete tasks.
A tutorial would solve the issue, but that's a lot of shit to do.
Anyhow, I haven't seen too many greens yet.... maybe Saturday night... neway, the ones I played with actually listened to ppls advice. One guy, I was healing him as a gorge, was a lerk and harassed the hell out of marines with bite and spike (didnt kill a ton, but still held them back). Green with 30 hrs. Love that shit. Also appreciated the heals n said thx.
I feel like less people are buying this game during the deals, but the ones that do are suitable for the game. I find that as a positive.
If people used logic and common sense, the world wouldn't be what it is today.
Vets who gets bored about one horrible game after another playing other games while new players taking there place.
- So we have vets that dont play anymore.
- Rookies stop playing after a view rounds cause reasons discussed here before
In the end we have an lower playerammmount like before the sale plus the quality of the games go down.
Maybe the sales are one of the reasons the game is losing players constantly?
Only a crazy theory.
*cough* decent matchmaking system *cough*
But we already missed our window for player base size for it to even be viable.
https://trello.com/c/CtlXDdbH/286-warning-about-performance-for-high-player-count-servers Its coming.
The issue is that combat mod is breaking every day to multiple times a day b/c it requires custom maps. As the steam servers are overloaded the workshop is going down more often and killing full combat games on map changes and leaving the server dead in the water.
While combat can be good for new players nothing kills their experience more than being dropped from a server on a map change b/c YEARS after the release the developers STILL REFUSE to even acknowledge that this is a real problem.
If NS2 had an integrated redundancy to retry when it has these workshop errors rather than just go, oh valve has decided our game does not work now and so this server is now disabled until the server admin sees it and flips out, it would be a much better experience for players as they could just continue to play the game rather than be kicked in the middle of a map change for a stupid error caused by the workshop going down yet again.
I still and likely never will understand why anyone thinks that the situation with the existing workshop ingratiation is acceptable to players. Either they just do not care or do not truly understand what it is that I am complaining about. But this is a very fundamental function of the game that has never worked and continues to turn away new players and endlessly frustrate the existing players.
It would be like building a solar powered car that 100% stops on a dime if it is not in direct sunlight killing its occupants. Unless the light of the workshop continuously falls on it then the product is doomed to die at any moment. No one would ever do this you would have redundancy so that for the short moment you need to pass under a shadow your entire vehicle does not crash and burn. Yet with this game as soon as the light of the workshop goes out for a moment when your currently on the road loading a map change your dead.
I also recall hearing that line about certain other things that turned out to be not engine based problems.
Maybe someone in the CDT can figure out how to write a couple of lines of code to get the workshop to retry on failure or at least give users some feedback about what went wrong and the party responsible.
I don't get what you are trying to say?
Of course that server you pointed out has issues.. Everyone knows this, and that website proves it?..
Did you think I was insinuating something different? Because all I did was provide a website that tracks performance for all servers..
Tutorial is important.
Soon, my pretty, soon.
Also, check it out:
http://steamcharts.com/app/4920#1m
Yesterday the peak was around 850. That's a 1000 new players playing thanks to the flash sale.
So as per the original intention of this thread, say hello, help them out, show them the ropes, don't stomp and don't stack. If they enjoy their time, they'll help our community to grow and there'll be more regular players for games, and more vets too down the track for pugs and comp.
If you're a vet.. command.. even if you're not good. These players just need a bit of direction and reminders (press B to evolve, use upgrades, yada yada yada)
Lots of positive reception from players with this approach (since most full teams of green stay silent and fumble around) and tons of people congratulating each other after rounds.
Now is your chance to help expand the playerbase
Thats what i said:
They learn the wrong gameplay from the beginning on a 42 slot server.
A server where positioning, aim, and mapawareness are useless + the horrible performance is the ideal learning enviroment? cmon
In general I'd say that games are picked up in this order:
Movement mechanics > Combat mechanics > Basic strategy > basic tactics > Advaced tactics > Advanced strategy.
A 20-24 player server (I assume "42" was a typo?) is a pretty decent learning enviroment, under the appropriate supervision.
But on 24-20 player servers, there can be some strategy. It may not be as graceful lol but neither will the enemy response. A lot of rookies seem to play on these servers just to learn the basics and get ahold of the movement.
I don't often play on 6 v 6 servers so idk how many greens play in them. Not going to get into the balance and performance debate.
Games are more forgiving (unless bad stack), and can lead to more fun. But they may last longer and make people have to quit early due to rl.
I find commanding marines quite easy if both teams consist of rookies. You can med them and give them waypoints so they know where to go. They even asked me for orders after the order was complete.
I was so proud of them.
P.S.
Sadly we won after 10 min since the alien commander was meh.
Couldn't help but appreciate the usual distribution: Marines 100% green,
while aliens only have 1 (or 2?) greens, majority of whites and even a couple of comm/reinforcement badgers.
After a sigh I try to mentally prepare myself for a complete and utter defeat within the next 15 minutes and join marines.
Situation is pretty grim. We only got 2 RTs, our start is Data. Comm is completely clueless. Nobody got a mic. Whole groups of marines lose engagements and vanish.
I walk down to Sub. After trying to convince the comm to drop an RT for a whopping 5 minutes, I take over commanding.
Alien comm is decent, lots of experience; way more annoying are the smart skulks, though. They constantly take down our hinterland extractors. Real PITA.
In fact, aliens already established their 2nd hive in Cross and are well on their way to rake in the money for the bigger lifeforms.
I instruct a bunch of marines to go on a Tour de Res, break through the alien forward base in Comp, build a PG and some sentries there and, miraculously, they even make it to Flight where the 3rd hive is growing. I beacon, tell everybody to use that PG and go to Flight to take that hive down. ~50% of the marines find the PG, the rest goes to Cross or RC...
Somehow (with the aid of medkits), we manage to shoot it down. After that we build PG and some sentries in Flight. Although aliens keep holding onto Cross for the first time in this game we are a threat to their economy, too. Some marines attack Crevice and Reactor, we even manage to build some sentries in RC.
While aliens keep hitting Comp, Vent and Sub constantly, we finally are receiving some dough.
Then aliens get bile. Some smartass gorges kill off all our sentries and aid in taking down our economy. Lots of small scale rushes, I have to leave chair to put out the burning fire in Flight.
Then the big alien rush happens: 2 oni, lerks and bilebombers are attacking Data while 95% of the marines are wandering around the map.
Luckily, my beacon comes just in time before the node goes down. Without my intervention, the rookie rines would've been toast after THIS coordinated attack for certain. We even shoot down 1 onos right on the spot.
Luckily, aliens don't coordinate that well again.
We also achieve full upgrade status, jetpacks and exos.
Rookie: "Research exos pls"
Me: "Research microphone pls"
With a metric shit ton of health, 2 exos, personal welder macs and nanoshield, marines manage to take down Atrium while aliens cut us down to 1 RT.
After a rebuild and several tries in vain we eventually take down the Cross hive as well.
58 minute match.
Expected to lose.
Won.
There is alien waypoints fyi.
I am one of those nasty greens who bought game on sale and will be spoiling your pleasure because of being so noobish
I've played only few hours but i can say that this game is awesom.
Quick question - are there any clans/groups playing organised games?
Check out the NSL website for league info and gathers: ensl.org/