I don't know why nobody told you, but I think during last week's playtest we noticed that your map lacks Occlusion Geometry, which is why there are quite a lot of drawcalls when playing it.
Occlusion Geometry acts as a sort of visual block; Nothing behind it will be rendered by NS2. It is recommended that you add it in the empty spaces between your rooms. To create Occlusion Geometry, simply create geometry and put it in the appropriate group. You can take a look at some of the official maps to see how it's done there.
FlaterectomyNetherlandistanJoin Date: 2005-02-03Member: 39643Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
I think there are definitely areas where he has occlusion geometry, but there were some spikes in draw calls around the map that seemed like they'd be caused by a lack of occlusion geometry.
There is occlusion geometry through the map, draw calls are mostly around 300-900. In a few stops they are between 1200-1700, but only looking in those directions. When playing, player don't stare in one direction for any lenght of time. Tram, and other official maps have far higher draw calls then Orbital tbh.
Plus I'm still working and updating the map as much as I can. The map is also on the voting system on the Diamond Gaming server. So I have been getting a lot of good feed back to make changes little at a time. To make the map better. Well let me know how it's going. Will be away this weekend but will be working on the map again next week.
There is occlusion geometry through the map, draw calls are mostly around 300-900. In a few stops they are between 1200-1700, but only looking in those directions. When playing, player don't stare in one direction for any lenght of time. Tram, and other official maps have far higher draw calls then Orbital tbh.
Plus I'm still working and updating the map as much as I can. The map is also on the voting system on the Diamond Gaming server. So I have been getting a lot of good feed back to make changes little at a time. To make the map better. Well let me know how it's going. Will be away this weekend but will be working on the map again next week.
Thanks,Max
When we ran around on it the other day, there were areas that got up to 2500-3000.
Well here is the lastest update to ns2_orbital_beta. Added a new tech point in Atrium, so map is more like the Summit map game play. Changed some of the locations of the rt's. More things cleaned up, and some other stuff added. Lights, models, etc, added or tweeked. the lastest version is on the steam workshop.
Hey , More work on Obital. Lowered more draw calls, change some more architure, made places look better. Let me know, I'll try to be on to test when I can.
Well, so more work on the Orbital map. Just more clean up, more models, and room architecture. Lower draw calls, changed path in to the obs hive from science lab, Let me how it's comming along.
Well, so more work on the Orbital map.
Just more clean up, worked a mostly J-Turn and room architecture.
Widened the room and raised the height of the room.
Let me how it's comming along.
Okay, as you seem really eager to make this map work, I'll give you some feedback. Please note it's personal, but I'm sure most others will agree with me.
I do know, by the way, that it's a remake of a NS1 map; that does mean you WILL have to sacrifice some features of the original map to make it work.
Think of it less as a direct port and more as a spiritual successor, and this will work.
Also, last disclaimer: It's been some weeks since I played this. Maybe I'm not covering all points.
- Observation needs another entrance. Currently, both entrances can be covered by a single marine, and it's nigh impossible for aliens to assault that when two skilled marines are camping in there. (Even without comm support. You can't even get close to them, let alone deal damage.)
- Being a NS1 map, orbital consists mainly of corridors. Hence, many routes from everywhere to everywhere. You'll have to cut down some of them to make the map working strategically. I recommend removing the connections between Reservoir and Big Room, between Pen-15 and Rear Access, between Pen-15 and Pressure Control, as well as possibly the one between Atrium and Big Room (scrap that cave like stair room altogether).
Instead, create a connection between Rear Access and Pressure Control.
In general, you'll want to look for "loops", where one can walk in circles without reaching a TP or RT. These usually create unnecessary routes that can be scrapped*. Some loops: Data Banks, J-Turn - Observatory, General area around Pumping Station. Note that my proposals above largely eliminate them.
(*In fact, one of the early design documents for NS2 maps actually read that one should avoid placing pointless corridors; they should always lead somewhere, or, even better, not be there at all. More about that later.)
- Being a NS1 map, orbital consists mainly of corridors. Hence, there's not much space and everything feels cramped. Playing higher lifeforms is a pain - just like on eclipse, btw - because there is no space to operate. The main directions needed are sideways and up. NS2 maps need a lot more space than NS1.
Of course, don't overshoot - that will do horrible things to skulks. But for now, I think it's better to make some parts too wide instead of keeping them that cramped!
The main rooms that need widening: Power Core, Reservoir, Port Corridor, Atrium, Rear Access, Pumping Station, Big Room (which is, frankly, not that big anymore; Compare to NS2 maps), Data banks (OHMYGOD data banks one shotgunner locks down entire hallways), possibly Telemetrics.
You may notice that this is a large portion of the map
How do you widen those? Well, try taking a look at the connection between Comp Lab and Sub on summit, or Terminal and East Wing. Those are NS2 corridors. You'll notice to NS1 corridors: They provide ambush spots for skulks, they make turns to break LoS without becoming snakes, and they are several metres wide (and high). Try to recreate something like that. I think the trick is to reinterpret the old NS1 corridors, not rebuild them.
- Make the whole map bigger. It should take you something between 12 - 17 seconds freshly-spawned marine walking speed to reach a natural RT from a TP (A little less for marine naturals, maybe.). Move Observation down and left, and Hanger (?!) to the right. Disentangle the corridors in between.
- Atrium.
Atrium is currently powerful because it provides routes to frikking EVERYWHERE, and they are VERY easy to block because, well, a whole corridor is already blocked by your shotgun's reticule. The above mentioned corridor suggestions should fix the connectivity issues.
As you already have lots of stuff ahead if you want to pull through with this map, I suggest turning Atrium into a tech point. It's a proven and reliable method in NS2 to make the central spot a TP*. It adds to the importance of the room and gives you a fifth TP, which generally works better and is easier to make work than a four TP map.
However, Atrium needs to be farer away from everything for that to work, or it will become horribly OP (See stretching the map, above). It also needs to be easily assaultable for both aliens and marines.
(*See: summit, biodome, descent, jambi, fracture (sortof), prison)
If you had looked or read the updates on the map you would see a lot of the things have already been done. Atrium is already a tech point, and I mentioned that the map is a 5 tech point map. It plays more like summit now tbh. Some of the halls or routes are already removed. Rooms have been made wider and higher. It also seems that most new or NS2 players really have a hard time when a map cannot be route blocked. No chance for either team to get around the other. No spur of the moment action to get behind the other team. Not every map has to be like every other map, or maybe in NS2 it does. Take the new map ns2_kodiac it's a nice map some hate it some like it. Does not mean players wont be playing it. Competitively I dought they will use it. Seems like players might like a large selection of maps that are fun to play. And maybe different. Yes and some might like to play on maps instead of waiting 2-3 years before they come out, if they ever come out. I have been updating the map alot lately, and the map has been getting played. As the rounds get played and there is concerns I address them. Well thanks for your Interest in my map Fordprefect. Check it out, you may see it is different than it was weeks ago.
Thanks, Max
Hey, just got back from a vacation.
But did a new version release of the orbital map on the workshop.
Moved pumping station, redid the route to Atrium from pumping station.
Added more lights , models, etc. Let me know what you think.
Hey, just released another new cersion of the map.
Changed the routes from pumping station to atrium,
and the route from big room to data banks. No more small tight hallways, large rooms.
Added more lights , models, etc. Let me know what you think.
Hey, just released another new version of the map.
Changed the tech location in atrium,
and raised more ceilings and made some rooms not as tight. Only a few tight hallways, but with larger rooms and higher ceilings.
Also changed cargo pit ,it now has a ramp to get out so no more traped exos's or onos.
Added more lights , models, etc. Let me know what you think.
Hey, just released another new version of the map.
Changed the ceiling hight in atrium,
Raised more ceilings and made some rooms not as tight and higher ceilings.
Added more lights , models, etc. Let me know what you think.
Hey, just released another new version of the map.
Just a small change and fixed the ladders and join entitys.
Raised more ceilings and made some rooms not as tight and higher ceilings.
Added more lights , models, etc. Let me know what you think.
Hey FordPrefect,
I mostly play very late, I run two business's. But I'll try to come, on a Sunday as soon as I can. Been making lots of small changes at a time to the map, so would enjoy playtesting with the group.
Comments
Anyone have fixes for this, other than using maxfps command. maxfps 60 fixes it for me.
Occlusion Geometry acts as a sort of visual block; Nothing behind it will be rendered by NS2. It is recommended that you add it in the empty spaces between your rooms. To create Occlusion Geometry, simply create geometry and put it in the appropriate group. You can take a look at some of the official maps to see how it's done there.
There is occlusion geometry through the map, draw calls are mostly around 300-900. In a few stops they are between 1200-1700, but only looking in those directions. When playing, player don't stare in one direction for any lenght of time. Tram, and other official maps have far higher draw calls then Orbital tbh.
Plus I'm still working and updating the map as much as I can. The map is also on the voting system on the Diamond Gaming server. So I have been getting a lot of good feed back to make changes little at a time. To make the map better. Well let me know how it's going. Will be away this weekend but will be working on the map again next week.
Thanks,Max
When we ran around on it the other day, there were areas that got up to 2500-3000.
Ok, then please tell me where that is happening and I will look at them and fix them.
Thanks, Max
Hey F0rdPrefect,
Why not? It's super awesome!
Thanks, Vert^
Thanks, Max
Thanks, max
Just more clean up, worked a mostly J-Turn and room architecture.
Widened the room and raised the height of the room.
Let me how it's comming along.
I do know, by the way, that it's a remake of a NS1 map; that does mean you WILL have to sacrifice some features of the original map to make it work.
Think of it less as a direct port and more as a spiritual successor, and this will work.
Also, last disclaimer: It's been some weeks since I played this. Maybe I'm not covering all points.
- Observation needs another entrance. Currently, both entrances can be covered by a single marine, and it's nigh impossible for aliens to assault that when two skilled marines are camping in there. (Even without comm support. You can't even get close to them, let alone deal damage.)
- Being a NS1 map, orbital consists mainly of corridors. Hence, many routes from everywhere to everywhere. You'll have to cut down some of them to make the map working strategically. I recommend removing the connections between Reservoir and Big Room, between Pen-15 and Rear Access, between Pen-15 and Pressure Control, as well as possibly the one between Atrium and Big Room (scrap that cave like stair room altogether).
Instead, create a connection between Rear Access and Pressure Control.
In general, you'll want to look for "loops", where one can walk in circles without reaching a TP or RT. These usually create unnecessary routes that can be scrapped*. Some loops: Data Banks, J-Turn - Observatory, General area around Pumping Station. Note that my proposals above largely eliminate them.
(*In fact, one of the early design documents for NS2 maps actually read that one should avoid placing pointless corridors; they should always lead somewhere, or, even better, not be there at all. More about that later.)
- Being a NS1 map, orbital consists mainly of corridors. Hence, there's not much space and everything feels cramped. Playing higher lifeforms is a pain - just like on eclipse, btw - because there is no space to operate. The main directions needed are sideways and up. NS2 maps need a lot more space than NS1.
Of course, don't overshoot - that will do horrible things to skulks. But for now, I think it's better to make some parts too wide instead of keeping them that cramped!
The main rooms that need widening: Power Core, Reservoir, Port Corridor, Atrium, Rear Access, Pumping Station, Big Room (which is, frankly, not that big anymore; Compare to NS2 maps), Data banks (OHMYGOD data banks one shotgunner locks down entire hallways), possibly Telemetrics.
You may notice that this is a large portion of the map
How do you widen those? Well, try taking a look at the connection between Comp Lab and Sub on summit, or Terminal and East Wing. Those are NS2 corridors. You'll notice to NS1 corridors: They provide ambush spots for skulks, they make turns to break LoS without becoming snakes, and they are several metres wide (and high). Try to recreate something like that. I think the trick is to reinterpret the old NS1 corridors, not rebuild them.
- Make the whole map bigger. It should take you something between 12 - 17 seconds freshly-spawned marine walking speed to reach a natural RT from a TP (A little less for marine naturals, maybe.). Move Observation down and left, and Hanger (?!) to the right. Disentangle the corridors in between.
- Atrium.
Atrium is currently powerful because it provides routes to frikking EVERYWHERE, and they are VERY easy to block because, well, a whole corridor is already blocked by your shotgun's reticule. The above mentioned corridor suggestions should fix the connectivity issues.
As you already have lots of stuff ahead if you want to pull through with this map, I suggest turning Atrium into a tech point. It's a proven and reliable method in NS2 to make the central spot a TP*. It adds to the importance of the room and gives you a fifth TP, which generally works better and is easier to make work than a four TP map.
However, Atrium needs to be farer away from everything for that to work, or it will become horribly OP (See stretching the map, above). It also needs to be easily assaultable for both aliens and marines.
(*See: summit, biodome, descent, jambi, fracture (sortof), prison)
That's it, for now. Good luck, man.
Thanks, Max
But did a new version release of the orbital map on the workshop.
Moved pumping station, redid the route to Atrium from pumping station.
Added more lights , models, etc. Let me know what you think.
Thanks, Max
Changed the routes from pumping station to atrium,
and the route from big room to data banks. No more small tight hallways, large rooms.
Added more lights , models, etc. Let me know what you think.
Thanks, Max
Changed the tech location in atrium,
and raised more ceilings and made some rooms not as tight. Only a few tight hallways, but with larger rooms and higher ceilings.
Also changed cargo pit ,it now has a ramp to get out so no more traped exos's or onos.
Added more lights , models, etc. Let me know what you think.
Thanks, Max
Mumble server is scc.mostlyoriginal.net
Changed the ceiling hight in atrium,
Raised more ceilings and made some rooms not as tight and higher ceilings.
Added more lights , models, etc. Let me know what you think.
Thanks, Max
Just a small change and fixed the ladders and join entitys.
Raised more ceilings and made some rooms not as tight and higher ceilings.
Added more lights , models, etc. Let me know what you think.
Thanks, Max
I mostly play very late, I run two business's. But I'll try to come, on a Sunday as soon as I can. Been making lots of small changes at a time to the map, so would enjoy playtesting with the group.
Thanks, Max