NS2_orbital

prevertmaximus

Hi, to all the NS2 players who remember NS1 Orbital. If you don't well here is my first release of that map. I did this map with the orignal map's auther's permission and map files, for the ANSL and Ensl leagues in NS1. Now I've remade it for NS2. Here are a couple of pics and the files should be in the NS2 steam workshop if i did it all correctly.
---Minimap

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Marine start

----Cargo
The map is in Beta, and I would appreciate feed back on the map. I did lighting on my screen set to how I play with the screen brighter for playing NS2. So please let me know if it's to dark on whatever you think. This map may not have a thousand models or lights, in it at the end as it gets finished . I'm trying to get a very high FPS map that might be fun to play competitively, or even on pubs. So Please check it out and let me know any thing you find to help finish this map, and have it play well.

Thanks, PREVERT-MAXIMUS

Vetinari

Looks like it has waaay too many routes.
Did you port it directly from the NS1 map? Often, that does not really work out.

Consider adding a central tech point. The only 4-tech point map that doesn't have a 3v1 layout and that actually works is kodiak; here, I imagine it's very hard for aliens to hold their ground.

BeigeAlert

What F0rdPrefect said.

Also... Pen-15... REALLY??? Pen15???? XD

prevertmaximus

Hi, Ford and beige. Maybe people should try and play it to see how it plays. Also I left the pen-15, because when I changed it back in NS1 thay all wanted it back in .

Thanks, PREVERT-MAXIMUS

Vetinari

prevertmaximus wrote: »

Hi, Ford and beige. Maybe people should try and play it to see how it plays. Also I left the pen-15, because when I changed it back in NS1 thay all wanted it back in .

Thanks, PREVERT-MAXIMUS

We just did, and... well, I think my predictions still stand. A central tech point would do good for this map; It's also pretty narrow everywhere, and there are too many routes.
As I said, porting a NS1 map without altering does not work, unfortunately. I will leave it to the more experienced mappers to tell you why

edit: I forgot: The location entities are not high enough - one can not see the room names in commander view!
And some catwalks (vents?) need to be commander invisible, especially the ones in Big Room and Cargo. It was difficult to precisely drop meds there.

prevertmaximus

Hi fordprefect, Thanks for some input. I have set some of the items you mentioned to CommanderInvisible. Like the hallway to cargo the map parts over the players is set that way but does not seen to work. It seems to always show up. As for the catwalk in cargo i'll set that so the commander can't see it. Big room I will set those parts to CommanderInvisible, just like the hallway to cargo. But like I said that layer does not seem to work for me. If anyone here can tell me about the CommanderInvisible layer, maybe I'm doing something wrong. I watched the testing and someone was getting the redplug, Is there an issue on the map that makes that happen. Please let me know if anyone can tell me.

Thanks, PREVERT-MAXIMUS

Soul_Rider

Hey @prevertmaximus‌ - Don't worry about the red-plug, it was just the web-admin being opened on the server, nothing to do with the map.

I also alt-tabbed out before the match started, so don't worry about FPS drop at the start of the game..

It does look like you haven't added occlusion geometry, so the draw calls sometimes get a little high, but other than that and what @F0rdPrefect‌ has added, I feel we need a few more games to see how it goes.

I am just working on editing the video and will post it soon...

prevertmaximus

Hey Soul_Rider, Thanks for trying the map. I ask about the redplug because when I create my own server after like 5-10 min I seem to get a redplug and don't know why.Also that is correct I have no Occlusion geometry in the map at this point. Wanted to get some feed back before going any farther. I'll look forward to the link for the video.And any other input.

Thanks , PREVERT-MAXIMUS

Soul_Rider

Hey,

Here is a video of todays stream from the SCC Map Test. If you do any updates for next week, we'll play it again. If you are around, please join up. Space is always made for the map makers



Oh, and please delete your game_setup.xml file, it is not needed for maps, and causes issues.

prevertmaximus

Hey Soul_Rider, I'll try to make changes as soon as I can. Will not put the game file there any more, did not know that. And I'll try to get the parts of the map to be CommanderInvisible.
Will also raise the height of the locations so com has info of the map names. Would be glad to play if around, when do you guys test the maps?

Thanks, Max

Soul_Rider

The map testing sessions happen every Sunday at 20:00 UK time. Here is a link to the public steam group, so you can get notifications if you are around: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/SCC-P

There is another secret group for mappers, but you'd have to be invited to that by someone who is a mapper, and thus allowed to enter the hallowed walls of the group..

Vetinari

"secret"

edit: I should get a deeper voice some time, I sound like some kiddo

prevertmaximus

Hey Soul_Rider, Thanks for the invite and the link, if around would like to play. Did some fixes on the map, and started to remove the ceiling blocking brushes.

Thanks, Max

prevertmaximus

Hey Soul_Rider, Also anyone wanting to know, the ns2_orbital_beta has now been updated. So all the ceiling brushes should be all gone. Map is alot cleaner and the locations have been raised so the names of the rooms now show up to the commanders. Let me know how it is now before I make any more changes.

Thanks, PREVERT-MAXIMUS

prevertmaximus

Hey to NS2 players and server owners,

The ns2_orbital_beta map has been updated so the draw calls are now very low all over the map now. And some subscribers would like to play this map. If any server owners could put this map in rotation on there server that would be great to get some long play time feed back.

Thanks, Max

prevertmaximus

Hi, to any of the players or map testers,
Ok, I have seen them test the ns2_orbital_beta map and watched them play it on twitch/tv. Have herd then saying it is marine sided when the marines win. Then alien sided when they win. They don't change side to see if the map is good or bad. Not just stacked or uneven player skills. So where is all the input on maps that are supposed to be tested before the mappers move on to keep or change the map in any way. I mean I have seen them play and the commander has no idea what to do, he seems to never have played NS2 or its a first time out. How do players like that really test a map when they don't even know what to look for. I would think that only a group of competitive, or just all well skilled players would be the best way to test the maps they might play on. Lets face it for anyone to start mapping for NS2, and put god knows how many hours of work it takes to make a map. Even maps base of orignal NS1 maps. Like Veil, Caged, Hera and Orbital, etc. With no real input on the maps, seems to be that maps in general would then just be a waste of time. So for mappers to move forward with there maps lets try to have some real specific thoughts on the maps so others can play them. Or what would be great , if server owners would run the maps for a while on pubs to see what reaction players in general have about the maps.

Thanks, Max

BeigeAlert

Yea it's a nasty catch-22. In order to make a good map, you need plenty of feedback. And in order to get feedback, you have to have people play your map. In order to get people to play your map, you need to have a good map.

Luckily for us, there are a few people who volunteer their time to play these map. If they didn't, we wouldn't have Kodiak.

However, greybox testing is more than just trying to get the win/lose ratio to 50/50. You also have to pay attention to other potential problems your map may have. My map hotdogs for example. It was about 50/50 balanced, but it still wasn't fun to play because it was too big! Marines were winning because of long LOS, and lack of cover for aliens. Aliens were winning because they could run around marine lines and destroy RTs. That's no fun at all if aliens' only choice is to avoid confrontation.

The one time I played this map (last weekend, I believe) was that there were some spots where I just couldn't cyst through. Also, there's no way to get to hangar if the other team controls "pen-15". Yes yes, I see the vents there, but that shouldn't be considered a "route". Vents are for aliens to use for flanking, not to provide alternative routes. That's why you typically see vents at the ends of long hallways, so aliens can avoid big LOS areas. It might be good to have a connection from "telemetrics" to "cafeteria". Though this map really needs fewer connections, not more.

Vetinari

BeigeAlert wrote: »

Yea it's a nasty catch-22. In order to make a good map, you need plenty of feedback. And in order to get feedback, you have to have people play your map. In order to get people to play your map, you need to have a good map.

Luckily for us, there are a few people who volunteer their time to play these map. If they didn't, we wouldn't have Kodiak.

However, greybox testing is more than just trying to get the win/lose ratio to 50/50. You also have to pay attention to other potential problems your map may have. My map hotdogs for example. It was about 50/50 balanced, but it still wasn't fun to play because it was too big! Marines were winning because of long LOS, and lack of cover for aliens. Aliens were winning because they could run around marine lines and destroy RTs. That's no fun at all if aliens' only choice is to avoid confrontation.

The one time I played this map (last weekend, I believe) was that there were some spots where I just couldn't cyst through. Also, there's no way to get to hangar if the other team controls "pen-15". Yes yes, I see the vents there, but that shouldn't be considered a "route". Vents are for aliens to use for flanking, not to provide alternative routes. That's why you typically see vents at the ends of long hallways, so aliens can avoid big LOS areas. It might be good to have a connection from "telemetrics" to "cafeteria". Though this map really needs fewer connections, not more.

I answered in the playtest thread already. Basically what beige said.

prevertmaximus

Hi all,

Just did some work on the Orbital map. Shortened the route to gen hive, changed some of the rooms. Raised and changed some of the ceilings, and hallways. Draw calls are mostly very low. So please let me know how it is looking now. It is now up on the stem workshop.

Thanks, Max

Pelargir

Nice job then! Unhappily, we still didn't play on your map. Hopefully, not this week but the next one, we could take a look on Orbital & give any feedbacks you want & need. Nevertheless, I loaded your map on our server to find out a little the layout & the ambience, environment, etc. I already know some rooms that need to be changed or some ventilations, I don't remember their names or their positions. Another weird detail is the lights themselves, all your map is very dark, not sure if that is desired or not, but I have to admit it's pretty hard to see Aliens in a couple of corridors, whether it's not the whole map.

prevertmaximus

Hi Pelargir,

Let me know which rooms and so on and i'll try do do whats needed. As far as the lighting hard to tell for me as I play with a pretty bright setting in game and on my monitor. Have had people playing it on a pub server, a friend has a server, no one has said anything on it being to dark. If it is then I can make it brighter, till it is good.
In the editor it looks not as birght as when I have the monitor set to standard. But in game mode it is fine. So let me know on this as well. I'll do whats needed here as well. Trying to keep lights and stuff to a minumum to keep fps as high as possible. So thanks for the quick responce.

Thanks, Max

Pelargir

I really need to take a look on the map again, honestly, I don't remember names of the involved rooms. I know I'm not usually playing with a very high bright but I'm pretty sure most of the map is too dark and need to be brighter, some corridors are entirely black, I will try to take some screenshots to show my thoughts as soon as possible.

prevertmaximus

Hi Pelargir, Ok that would be great.

Thanks, Max

prevertmaximus

Just a quick update, the ns2_orbital_beta map has been updated again. Is on the workshop, and please let me know how its going.

Thanks, Max

BeigeAlert

What's changed?

prevertmaximus

Hey BeigeAlert,
Whats changed ,the room sizes, ceiling hights, more fixes.
Another way to cyst out of hanger Hive. And added a vent out of hanger, also fixed the vent heights , and more.
Getting feed back from players playing the map on a public server. Then trying to make the play better. Let me know what you think.

Thanks, Max

BeigeAlert

Glad to hear! You should really get in the habit of documenting what you've changed. It just sounds better to say "let's try orbital, he's changed x, y, z..." than "let's try orbital, he's changed some things" "what things?" "I don't know!"

I *might* be able to make this Sunday's SCC playtest. Not 100% sure just yet, but the odds are good I'll be home by then.

prevertmaximus

Hey BeigeAlert,
I'll try to document more but my time is tite, running 2 companys. And mapping is a real life -time sucker. But I do enjoy the mapping. Sundays I could play if I know the time in advance. What server and mumble. If here I will come there.

Thanks, Max

Flaterectomy

We play at 21:00 CEST on the Spark Crafter Collective server.

SCC Server IP:
212.38.163.88:27015

Mumble details:
Address: scc.mostlyoriginal.net
Port: 12437

prevertmaximus

Hey Flaterectomy,
Ok thanks for the info. I guess 21:00 cest is 3:00 PM my time.

Thanks, Max

prevertmaximus

Hey all,
Just put some more tweaks to the ns2_orbital_beta map. Yes I know, what did I do. I raised alot of the ceilings, widened some rooms, added some models. Added some crates, changed some rooms. Well the newest version is on the steam workshop. Please get it so you may test out the newest version this weekend, if you are going to play test the map.
Thanks, Max