General Motors is too easily fortified imho. There should at least be a way to move around it without going back through Triad. A short vent accessible by marines might do the trick.
That whole area around generator monitoring is a great place for reins to arc the computer core hive and is difficult for aliens to take back. Its a great map but requires a lot of work to hold key areas making the fighting very intense. I think sharing tips is helpful.
Eclipse is not fine. Too many crates I can live with; but the map's aesthetic is nothing like Eclipse, and that's not OK.
What defines the look of eclipse, and what is the aesthetic you just have to capture in order to make something recognizable as eclipse?
For me it is a very uncluttered look, with plain "rosy brown" ceramic-looking walls (wall lab texture set), with trims containing some metallic bronze, metallic grated floors and mostly warm-white lighting, with some contrasting blue and aquamarine displays and such, in a setting that appears to be a base on mars.
It is a cluttered metallic mess of dull grayish colours, like every other NS2 map. Summit is the least cluttered, which is probably why it plays so well and is so generally well liked, though overplayed.
d4rkAlfSwedenJoin Date: 2013-11-12Member: 189309Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
I sort of disliked Eclipse at first. After playing it more and learning what works and not, I've started to question my disdain.
One thing that I have realized is a big issue is the placement of the techpoint in Marine Start. It's just so damn hard for marines to clear lifeforms that hide behind it.
Eclipse was a beloved map in NS1 and its revival was a very popular decision. The fact that the community has turned on it so strongly after release is proof that there is something wrong IMO - Veil has its critics but nothing like this. It's a beautiful map and I would like to play it more often, so I hope that "it's just different and nobody understands" is not the official stance.
JektJoin Date: 2012-02-05Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
edited February 2014
I really enjoy Eclipse, the crates litterered around everywhere defiantly kill it for me though. As does the importance of PSJ.
I'd certainly rather play it than ns2_nanogrid.
I sort of disliked Eclipse at first. After playing it more and learning what works and not, I've started to question my disdain.
One thing that I have realized is a big issue is the placement of the techpoint in Marine Start. It's just so damn hard for marines to clear lifeforms that hide behind it.
Agreed. Also you can't build structures behind it, as I'm certain you can do in other maps with static marine spawn. (Veil comes to mind first)
I sort of disliked Eclipse at first. After playing it more and learning what works and not, I've started to question my disdain.
One thing that I have realized is a big issue is the placement of the techpoint in Marine Start. It's just so damn hard for marines to clear lifeforms that hide behind it.
Agreed. Also you can't build structures behind it, as I'm certain you can do in other maps with static marine spawn. (Veil comes to mind first)
Oh yeah, I forgot that as well. If they just made it slightly larger then that might be enough. I really feel Marine Start is lacking a good place to build the observatory and enlarging that area might be just what's needed.
Nostalgia is a double edged sword when it comes to Natural Selection it seems, its a shame. There is a tangible attitude change when certain maps come on but over time we warm to them, Refinery, Decent and Veil all come to mind. I hope there are a few tweeks planned for Eclipse to help people back to loving it.
Descent unfortunately was not designed well for gameplay purposes. The ship in the hanger and robots get in the way. The curving stairs also ruin it. Biodome has rooms slightly too big and it is a performance hog for some people. Those 2 maps are internally flawed for some players while other players like them. Eclipse however can still be great for everyone if enough effort is made to improve it.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Played a few more rounds on eclipse today, and it is visually so cluttered, that my brain really doesn't register the map space. I am struggling to register map vs lifeforms and buildings. I can't say why, but it is just such hard work to play this map, even though, I already know it. It is almost unrecognisable as Eclipse.
We did get a marine win today as well, which was nice, but that was because aliens spawned in computer core, and that has always been a bad first spawn for aliens.
Hmm, dunno McFly - game started at 8 mins, was 20 mins into the game with no generator action yet - kinda think Aliens forgot about Onos etc. More an example of why not to Fade on a low res node map unless you are just keen on practicing (thus not so much on the team work) or already really good. Or maybe it was Maint that was the problem for Aliens
We did get a marine win today as well, which was nice, but that was because aliens spawned in computer core, and that has always been a bad first spawn for aliens.
CC is the best spawn for the aliens, was so in NS1 too. Especially in the NS2 version both of your naturals are virtually unassailable.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
LOL, Virtually unassailable? That's why we won in under 20mins with aliens trapped in CC. Fast Eclipse cap, then clear out maintenance, and Aliens are boxed in with nowhere to go. Forward base on the natural towards eclipse, aliens didn't stand a chance. It is the first time I have played with a marine team capable of following a simple strat on eclipse, but it worked like a charm.
Yeah. On veil, the marines once just capped the entire pipeline-side of the map, built a phase gate in nano, overlook and cargo and researched w3a3 jetpacks. After that the aliens were trapped in sub and didn't stand a chance. Clearly sub is the worst alien start on veil.
Generator monitors and south loop are perhaps the most awkward resource nodes in the game to attack as marines. Both are very far away from marine start with plenty of ambush spots on the way, and both rooms are ridiculously tight and cluttered with vents, giving the aliens 3-4 different routes of attack, with the marines only being able to shoot at the aliens when they're already within a couple of meters. Cue in a few whips and a crag, and it's just easier to ignore those rooms completely as marines than to waste time trying to get through.
The biggest fault with the CC hive is that it's the easiest hive to siege from west access. West access is extremely easy to defend, however.
We had a marine win with a CC start the other day, too, but it might have had something to do with me and one other marine (who I didn't know, btw) locking down power sub junction by ourselves at the very beginning of the game. 'Rookie free' server?
Comments
inb4 ban
eclipse is fine, stop asking for new material then instantly voting it off
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/profile/156625/It's Super Effective!! for a quality video.
What defines the look of eclipse, and what is the aesthetic you just have to capture in order to make something recognizable as eclipse?
For me it is a very uncluttered look, with plain "rosy brown" ceramic-looking walls (wall lab texture set), with trims containing some metallic bronze, metallic grated floors and mostly warm-white lighting, with some contrasting blue and aquamarine displays and such, in a setting that appears to be a base on mars.
It is a cluttered metallic mess of dull grayish colours, like every other NS2 map. Summit is the least cluttered, which is probably why it plays so well and is so generally well liked, though overplayed.
One thing that I have realized is a big issue is the placement of the techpoint in Marine Start. It's just so damn hard for marines to clear lifeforms that hide behind it.
People like Refinery just fine now in my experience, after it went through a few iterations.
I'd certainly rather play it than ns2_nanogrid.
Agreed. Also you can't build structures behind it, as I'm certain you can do in other maps with static marine spawn. (Veil comes to mind first) I lol'd.
Again: Descent.
Oh yeah, I forgot that as well. If they just made it slightly larger then that might be enough. I really feel Marine Start is lacking a good place to build the observatory and enlarging that area might be just what's needed.
We did get a marine win today as well, which was nice, but that was because aliens spawned in computer core, and that has always been a bad first spawn for aliens.
CC is the best spawn for the aliens, was so in NS1 too. Especially in the NS2 version both of your naturals are virtually unassailable.
Generator monitors and south loop are perhaps the most awkward resource nodes in the game to attack as marines. Both are very far away from marine start with plenty of ambush spots on the way, and both rooms are ridiculously tight and cluttered with vents, giving the aliens 3-4 different routes of attack, with the marines only being able to shoot at the aliens when they're already within a couple of meters. Cue in a few whips and a crag, and it's just easier to ignore those rooms completely as marines than to waste time trying to get through.
The biggest fault with the CC hive is that it's the easiest hive to siege from west access. West access is extremely easy to defend, however.
I'd like to see how eclipse plays out in comp. It obviously never gets voted in gathers though