Solution to Workshop mod problems

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  • Racer1Racer1 Join Date: 2002-11-22 Member: 9615Members Posts: 1,595 Advanced user
    edited February 2014
    Is there a chance someone could build a tiny passthrough server, which can (optionally) run on the same location as the game server? It would accept connections from the game server, and attempt to forward them to the workshop. If the workshop is available, everything works normally. If not, the passthrough server returns a local copy of the mods instead (if present).

    The only reason this might not work would be if the workshop has some type of encrypted authentication that cannot be "forwarded".
  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 993 Advanced user
    edited February 2014
    Yet again today workshop kills the server. When failure is this high maybe a better solution if they have no intent on fixing this is for them to put a disclaimer that mods of any kind on servers are a bad idea b/c they rely on an unreliable system that is going to fail.
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  • SupaFredSupaFred Join Date: 2013-03-03 Member: 183652Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 440 Advanced user
    Again, make a script that changes map to fix that problem for you. Don't count on UWE fixing things in a timely manner, not gonna happen.

    I've just started my own server and I don't know how to do this. Can someone post a script or explain how to do it? I run custom maps.
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  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 993 Advanced user
    Unlikely, the people that do know how to do a partial fix are keeping it to themselves and the devs apparently have decided that you should not host mods unless you also reprogram the entire game yourself so that it actually works. Unfortunately, this is not what one would call mod friendly but it is what we got...
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  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 993 Advanced user
    Well it is Tuesday again so it is that time of the week for the workshop to go down and your servers be unplayable. One would think that having a game where mods break 100% once a week for hours at a time would be a major issue. However, I assume that would only be for games that legitimately care about the modding community.

    An integrated fix for this issue is needed immediately.
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  • WalsaWalsa Join Date: 2011-06-28 Member: 106813Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 117 Advanced user
    I think its time to fix this, and reimplement the way the server downloads the mods from the steam workshop.

    1. Add some retries, and resume to the server code, prevent the dreadful error 28.
    2. If the mod cant be downloaded, add the option to run with the current version of the mod in the server. Give options to server admins.

    No being able to run custom maps and downloading new mods/fixes to the server is a real pain....
    Error: Error installing mod 'Docking fixed [263]' <download failed: 28>
    
    Racer1
  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 993 Advanced user
    Yet again today lost a server due to file not found. This is just a stupid and preventable error which prevents players from enjoying the game to its fullest.
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    inveigle
  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 993 Advanced user
    Why is it that the very "feature" that is supposed to enrich the game is what damages it the most by constantly killing servers with its poor implementation...
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  • GibsGibs Join Date: 2013-09-25 Member: 188455Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Diamond, Subnautica Playtester Posts: 173 Advanced user
    This happens on my server constantly. It is honestly depressing, to go from a full server to an empty one, only to have everybody spread out onto the other NS2 servers. Not to mention it's a real pain from the player's standpoint.
    "I must combat the urge to see everything eyebex writes is stupid, i must."
  • WalsaWalsa Join Date: 2011-06-28 Member: 106813Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 117 Advanced user
    Even if you fix the current system and the server loads older version of current activated mod from the workshop, the clients could download a newer version of the mod and be kicked on mapchange.
    To alleviate that you could merge all the mod that you want on your server, publish at the workshop and control when it updates, but that´s not the ideal solution.

    The only way to solve this problems once and for all is to ditch steam workshop and allow server side mods(shine should not have to be downloaded and installed in clients) and proper downloading/activating of game changing mods in clients directly from servers.
    But I don´t see this change in a near/far future from being implemented.
    GhoulofGSG9Racer1
  • Person8880Person8880 Join Date: 2013-01-02 Member: 177167Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 72 Advanced user
    Walsa wrote: »
    The only way to solve this problems once and for all is to ditch steam workshop and allow server side mods(shine should not have to be downloaded and installed in clients) and proper downloading/activating of game changing mods in clients directly from servers.
    But I don´t see this change in a near/far future from being implemented.
    Server side mods are horribly limited.

    Shine needs to be on clients so that they can use the vote menu, see the MotD window and have the chatbox among other things.

    Removing the client side part would make the mod crippled and would destroy a lot of time and effort I've put into it.
    GhoulofGSG9Gibs
  • WalsaWalsa Join Date: 2011-06-28 Member: 106813Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 117 Advanced user
    edited March 2014
    if they implement an api for menus it would not be a problem. Look at sourcemod in source engine games.
    An between you and me, your chat box had to be implemented in the core game ages ago.
  • Person8880Person8880 Join Date: 2013-01-02 Member: 177167Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 72 Advanced user
    Walsa wrote: »
    if they implement an api for menus it would not be a problem. Look at sourcemod in source engine games.
    An between you and me, your chat box had to be implemented in the core game ages ago.
    They're not going to do that though. An API for menus would never be complete enough for every possible usage. That's the advantage of being able to run on the client, I can build all kinds of UI elements that better suit what I'm trying to do.

    The solution to the workshop problem is not going back to the dark ages of modding and making most mods server side only (see back when there was the horrible yellow modded server colour in the browser). Many ideas have already been suggested that would work (downloading from the server's copy being the best) and no action has been taken so I'm guessing that UWE don't see this as a problem.
    GhoulofGSG9
  • WalsaWalsa Join Date: 2011-06-28 Member: 106813Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 117 Advanced user
    Then, how can we make them listen ?
    How much more noise do we have to make for someone to make this change, a change that will make NS2 modding something stable and robust.
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue Posts: 4,268 Advanced user
    I guess as with most things it would be up to the community to get together and create something to do the job. We may see a little support from UWE, but I doubt enough to remedy all our issues. If the community came up with something, like the big community update for UT2004, that ended up getting released officially, which has fixed, new content etc. If some sort of community effort could be co-ordinated, then yeah, otherwise, I don't think things will change too much on this front now.
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  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 993 Advanced user
    The problem lies with the core of the game though so a modded solution from the community would basically require our own version of the game which we would also need clients to run unless we find a way to auto side load clients with a mod that will still run even if the workshop is down and communicate all mod hand shake independent of workshop and ect ect. Like I have said before the solutions available to the devs are simple but unfortunately for us very limited and complicated due to how far mods can go.
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  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 993 Advanced user
    16 hours of a dead server just b/c of this error. I pray that at least combat standalone will ship with a fix as that mod is the most effected by this problem. However this is also why custom maps are simply not worth the risk for pubs.
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  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 993 Advanced user
    Want to play ns2 on your fav server Friday afternoon. Not today your not with glitches like this.
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  • Crysknife_FixedCrysknife_Fixed US Join Date: 2014-02-22 Member: 194231Members Posts: 7
    Is anyone listening to ZEROibis? I want to play on this particular server with my friends and I can't because of the constant issues he has brought up. Are we asking too much for what seems to be a simple fix?
    Yojimbo
  • SamusDroidSamusDroid Colorado Join Date: 2013-05-13 Member: 185219Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,155 mod
    edited May 2014
    Run less mods, have better configs. I know server admins who have not crashed in more than a month. If you upload your configs I'm sure someone would be generous enough to check them.
    My mods --- Watermod collaboration with Feha
    For some reason, the instant you ask players to behave differently to be successful, they associate that with bad mapping. - KungFuDiscoMonkey
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  • GhoulofGSG9GhoulofGSG9 Join Date: 2013-03-31 Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,819 admin
    edited May 2014
    SamusDroid wrote: »
    Run less mods, have better configs. I know server admins who have not crashed in more than a month. If you upload your configs I'm sure someone would be generous enough to check them.

    Tell me more about those admins please. Would really love to hear their tricks. I don't have many crashs anymore but like 1-3 a week. Mostly those weird maploading crashs (Corrupted stack).
    Developer, Modder and Server Admin of Survival of the Fattest - Ingame Nick: Ghoul
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  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 993 Advanced user
    SamusDroid wrote: »
    Run less mods, have better configs. I know server admins who have not crashed in more than a month. If you upload your configs I'm sure someone would be generous enough to check them.

    WHAT!?!?!?!


    The issue this thread is discussing is that the STEAM WORKSHOP CAUSES mods to not load on a server because of PROBLEMS with the STEAM WORKSHOP. The only way to eliminate this would to NOT RUN ANY MODS on your server. The largest problem this glitch causes is with custom maps b/c all the clients get kicked when THEY CAN NOT COMMUNICATE WITH STEAM WORKSHOP.

    In NO WAY is this problem caused by the game server it is caused 100% BY THE STEAM WORKSHOP AND THIS GAMES FAILURE TO HAVE ANY SIMPLE FALL BACK SYSTEM IN PLACE.

    In the OP which has been posted for MONTHS I suggest what should be a SIMPLE alteration to the games core code which would NOT ELIMINATE the problem but WOULD MITIGATE ITS NEGATIVE EFFECTS TO PLAYERS AND SERVERS.

    Instead we get responses like above. THERE IS A MAJOR PROBLEM with the games workshop implementation which HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CRASHES (other than perhaps the workshop crashing).

    Instead this issue remains COMPLETELY IGNORED by the devs. By simply declaring any problem regardless of what it is the FAULT OF THE SERVER OPERATORS they get to blow past anything that is wrong with the current TERRIBLE WORKSHOP IMPLEMENTATION.

    THIS IS A PROBLEM RELATED TO THE WORKSHOP HAVING INTERMITTENT COMMUNICATION WITH THE SERVER AND OR CLIENTS. NOT UEW NOR THE SERVER OPERATORS CAN EVER FIX THIS. As the cause can not be fixed, I have requested for months in this thread that some sort of fall back mitigation be added to the core of the game as to not interrupt clients and servers when a workshop error does happen.

    THESE GLITCHES WILL CONTINUE TO EFFECT CLIENTS AND SERVERS ALIKE UNTIL UWE IMPLEMENTS A WORKAROUND OR STEAM WORKSHOP FUNCTIONS WITH 100% UPTIME...
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  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 993 Advanced user
    Yet again today lose all the players and have the server stuck with no mods on a map no one can join for hours due to the workshop. This problem is as common as the rising as setting of the sun yet we see not even a hint that the issue is being taken seriously.
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  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,822 admin
    How is anybody even playing NS2 when Steam is down? When Steam is down, it doesn't let me into the game period.
  • GhoulofGSG9GhoulofGSG9 Join Date: 2013-03-31 Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,819 admin
    edited May 2014
    BeigeAlert wrote: »
    How is anybody even playing NS2 when Steam is down? When Steam is down, it doesn't let me into the game period.

    Steam =/= Steam Workshop ( Steam Community Servers ) ;)

    BTW @Zeroibis if you have so many workshop issues i would start with disabling all outdated mods of your server first like player badges, snowballs in rr ( those two contain outdated lua files ) + maybe dak as it hasn't got updated since some time so there could be some issues we are not aware of.
    Developer, Modder and Server Admin of Survival of the Fattest - Ingame Nick: Ghoul
  • WalsaWalsa Join Date: 2011-06-28 Member: 106813Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 117 Advanced user
    edited May 2014
    The problem is when the server changes maps/starts and can't query into steam workshop, or stops in the middle of a download. Instead of loading the current downloaded version, it runs the server without that mod. Generally, if it can't check/download one mod, the rest will follow.
    It's not a problem of what mods he has activated, or if the are outdated, it is how ns2 works. A real lame implementation with no backup plan as an option.....
    ZEROibis
  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 993 Advanced user
    BeigeAlert wrote: »
    How is anybody even playing NS2 when Steam is down? When Steam is down, it doesn't let me into the game period.

    Steam =/= Steam Workshop ( Steam Community Servers ) ;)

    BTW @Zeroibis if you have so many workshop issues i would start with disabling all outdated mods of your server first like player badges, snowballs in rr ( those two contain outdated lua files ) + maybe dak as it hasn't got updated since some time so there could be some issues we are not aware of.

    Problem occurs with maps the number of mods and if they are outdated is meaningless. I have been on the other side of the earth for 3 months walking up mountains it is a miracle I was still able to get internet to even keep an eye on the servers. Now back in the states I have moved and have been spending every day unpacking and drilling to run cat6 and 7 all over the house so I can get some dam internet. I am going to be making some mod changes but it is important to note that those mods have no impact with regard to the issue of this thread.
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  • cpt000cpt000 Join Date: 2013-08-28 Member: 187152Members Posts: 104 Fully active user
    Zero, how do you run stargate and descent on your server? I've tried any number of combinations of adding EEM, stargate and descent as mods/maps in the Web UI, but I always get the message " your game files do not match the server's try verifying your game cache in steam, or maybe an update just came out."
  • SupaFredSupaFred Join Date: 2013-03-03 Member: 183652Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 440 Advanced user
    @cpt000‌ You need to add some files to ignore in your ConsistencyCheck.json. It's the same with Twither and Nest. I can send you the file I use on my Combat server if you want.
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  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 993 Advanced user
    Also never use that web UI crap it is a total joke. Just edit the files directly and you will generally get much faster and better results. You even get to not lag your server to shit while doing it.
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