Solution to Workshop mod problems

ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 1,016 Advanced user
So today again I have a server killed by the workshop. Has 22 players on core and after the map change lost everyone due to mod unavailable. As usual the server is then stuck this way until someone manually comes in and resets it so it can load the mods again.

This got me thinking that a SIMPLE solution could be used to help mitigate the workshop problems.

Please UWE consider doing the following:

Allow us to define particular mods as "critical". When a mod is defined as critical such as logically a custom map the server when trying to change to that map will have a fall back action if that map/mod is unavailable. In this instance instead of dropping all the clients it will simply go to the next map in the list and continue to traverse and retry until such time as it is able to reestablish communication with the workshop.

This way you can still have cases where the map loads and some non critical mods do not get loaded but for important mods like combat on your combat server or custom maps on any server the server will attempt to recover from the error.

This is a much simpler solution than trying to code some sort of workshop work around and this while not removing the source of the problem is able to dramatically reduce the effects of workshop errors and drop outs on clients and servers.

I hope that UWE will seriously consider a solution like this or some sort of mitigation as to help improve the reliability of modded servers.
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Server IP: NS2.IBISGaming.com
Server IP: NS2CO.IBISGaming.com
AurOn2radionautDrNoHamlet
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Comments

  • WalsaWalsa Join Date: 2011-06-28 Member: 106813Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 117 Advanced user
    I wish we could have server side mods that don´t depend in the workshop.....

    I think you should do something like they do in the HBZ server. They have all the mods they use, merged in a single one. marked as private in the workshop. That way they can control when the updates takes place, and in case of workshop dreadful error 28, update it manually.
    AurOn2
  • GhoulofGSG9GhoulofGSG9 Join Date: 2013-03-31 Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,821 admin
    Walsa wrote: »
    I wish we could have server side mods that don´t depend in the workshop.....

    I think you should do something like they do in the HBZ server. They have all the mods they use, merged in a single one. marked as private in the workshop. That way they can control when the updates takes place, and in case of workshop dreadful error 28, update it manually.

    There are pros and cons doing it this way. Also this won't fix the main issue zero is talking about.In fact i would also like if the server just loads the local mod files if workshop times out. By this way mod will still load up and at least a few bunch of ppl could join.
    Developer, Modder and Server Admin of Survival of the Fattest - Ingame Nick: Ghoul
  • WalsaWalsa Join Date: 2011-06-28 Member: 106813Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 117 Advanced user
    It seems like the timeout is only for downloading a new version. I don have problems when checking if the version in the mods folder is the same in the workshop. Whenever I get error 28 y just upload my version from my ns2 game and the mod is loaded in the server.
  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 1,016 Advanced user
    No, every time the map changes it checks for the mods and if it can not find them due to a workshop error they are gone. Then if the mod that it could not find happens to be a map, well your in trouble now.
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  • WalsaWalsa Join Date: 2011-06-28 Member: 106813Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 117 Advanced user
    O, my error then :(
  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 1,016 Advanced user
    Losing clients daily now with the file not found error. The workshop problems are starting to become a lot more common.
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  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 1,016 Advanced user
    Still seeing the file not found error on a daily basis. Can we please get this fixed?

    It is just stupid to have players get dumped from a server becuase there is no automated redundancy for when the workshop glitches, which is all the time.
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    Server IP: NS2CO.IBISGaming.com
  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 1,016 Advanced user
    Once again this issue occurs on virtually a daily basis of losing an entire server due to file not found. There needs to be some automated redundancy for when a map fails by continuing to the next map without losing clients.

    This is the most major issue effecting servers which run custom maps or mods in general. Something needs to be done as to offer players who wish to enjoy custom maps/mods a better experience.
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  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 1,016 Advanced user
    Another day and yet another instance of having a server die without recovery b/c the map was unavailable due to file not found error. This is a common problem of which the solution is to either simply not run custom maps or to get some sort of patch put into a future build to fix this.

    I assume that the devs like custom maps and so I hope that someone will look into fixing this either in a way described above or in some other method which mitigates the file not found error.
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  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 1,016 Advanced user
    It is getting to the point where a server is now be down more than it is up because of how often this error occurs.
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    Server IP: NS2CO.IBISGaming.com
  • cpt000cpt000 Join Date: 2013-08-28 Member: 187152Members Posts: 104 Fully active user
    I'm experiencing this with my combat server too. It's random and doesn't appear to have any key cause. Could be running fine for 80 minutes then boom it happens. I have to reset the server manually to fix.
  • GhoulofGSG9GhoulofGSG9 Join Date: 2013-03-31 Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,821 admin
    cpt000 wrote: »
    I'm experiencing this with my combat server too. It's random and doesn't appear to have any key cause. Could be running fine for 80 minutes then boom it happens. I have to reset the server manually to fix.

    It depends how high the load of your regions steam server is. So atm it happens quiet alot due to wintersale.
    Developer, Modder and Server Admin of Survival of the Fattest - Ingame Nick: Ghoul
  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 1,016 Advanced user
    Yea the issue is not something caused on your end and thus nothing we can control can fix it. The only solution is for UWE to accept that this is a problem and implement a solution which prevents users from getting kicked when this error occurs and allows the server to recover and continue operating as normal.
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  • GhoulofGSG9GhoulofGSG9 Join Date: 2013-03-31 Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,821 admin
    edited December 2013
    ZEROibis wrote: »
    Yea the issue is not something caused on your end and thus nothing we can control can fix it. The only solution is for UWE to accept that this is a problem and implement a solution which prevents users from getting kicked when this error occurs and allows the server to recover and continue operating as normal.

    A simple solution would be to just load up the local modfiles instead of not loading them at all ... . But this is something uwe has to fix.

    Developer, Modder and Server Admin of Survival of the Fattest - Ingame Nick: Ghoul
  • SamusDroidSamusDroid Colorado Join Date: 2013-05-13 Member: 185219Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,155 mod
    That needs to be fixed in engine code*
    My mods --- Watermod collaboration with Feha
    For some reason, the instant you ask players to behave differently to be successful, they associate that with bad mapping. - KungFuDiscoMonkey
    Z5UIr2s.png
    GhoulofGSG9ZEROibis
  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 1,016 Advanced user
    Had it occur twice so far today, the issue appears to be getting worse. I would hope that UWE is working on a solution given that currently players essentially can not play the game during holidays or when the starts are misaligned.
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  • Omega_K2Omega_K2 Join Date: 2011-12-25 Member: 139013Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 558
    Needs fixing. Suggesting loading mods from disk if the webquery fails (and distributing from desk too if necessary)
    ZEROibis wrote: »
    Had it occur twice so far today, the issue appears to be getting worse. I would hope that UWE is working on a solution given that currently players essentially can not play the game during holidays or when the starts are misaligned.

    For the time being, you can write a script as workaround that changes map until all required mods are loaded.

    German Slaughterhouse | GS Servers | Server Hardware
    IGN: [#OMEGA] - K2 (Hive)

    NS2 long standing issues (Fix ETA: Never):
    Bad Netcode (no adjustable tickrate, extremly delayed hit feedback, bad hitreg),
    Bad Performance (Poor Multi-threading, Mouse Lag, bad server performance, almost no multi-threading in server application)
    Bad Balance (GL Spam, semi-useless exos, poor chance of comebacks, no upkeep/or RT dimishing returns...)
    Technical Issues (Mouse Lag, Memory Leaks, Memory Corruption (and memory corruption server crashes))
    Bad Workshop implementation (down = kicks people/connection prboelms, out of date = nobody can join server),
    GhoulofGSG9
  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 1,016 Advanced user
    That is true that if we had a mod that bypassed workshop that did what you suggest it will at least let the server come back even though all the players still get kicked. Hopefully, someone with the know how will release something.
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  • GhoulofGSG9GhoulofGSG9 Join Date: 2013-03-31 Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,821 admin
    ZEROibis wrote: »
    That is true that if we had a mod that bypassed workshop that did what you suggest it will at least let the server come back even though all the players still get kicked. Hopefully, someone with the know how will release something.

    He's talking about a system sided script not a ns2 mod.

    Developer, Modder and Server Admin of Survival of the Fattest - Ingame Nick: Ghoul
  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 1,016 Advanced user
    And yet again, I know I am starting to sound like a broken record but I assure everyone that it is the workshop that is broken yet again and kicking 22 players out of their enjoyable game with no option of return until I manually change the map. I am not sure if server operators are expected to sit next to our servers all day/night speaking sweet nothings into its mic so that it can be calmed when separated from its beloved workshop, but it turns out that we are not robots and therefore an official fix to this problem would be very nice :D
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  • RustyRusty Canada Join Date: 2013-07-02 Member: 185850Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver Posts: 64 Advanced user
    edited January 2014
    I operate DiamondGamers.net and I agree with ZEROibis. NS2 is not dependant and as such relies on a constant connection to the steam workshop. Please either fix the issue, which is only going to escalate as more mods are created. Or sever the link and allow servers to have client downloadable mods from the server directly; or server specified third party. Our servers are suffering, and I hope you get this message. Four of the largest operators are in need of a fix.

    Are you working on a solution? Please tell us !
    DiamondGamers.net
    A Rich Gaming Experience.
  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 1,016 Advanced user
    Making it non dependent will likely take too much time. This is why I am still just asking for simple redundancy to allow for it to simply change the map until the workshop does work. This should take significantly less time to code and therefore might actually be implemented.
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    DrNo
  • Omega_K2Omega_K2 Join Date: 2011-12-25 Member: 139013Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 558
    edited January 2014
    ZEROibis wrote: »
    Making it non dependent will likely take too much time. This is why I am still just asking for simple redundancy to allow for it to simply change the map until the workshop does work. This should take significantly less time to code and therefore might actually be implemented.

    You can do that yourself with a script with very little effort.

    The proper solution to the issue is simply to load the mods from disk, and distribute them to the players if connection to workshop fails.
    Also, a real download system that could be used along side would be nice (ala source), i.e. a repo where you can put hosted files. Plus no requirement for workshop (/private repos).

    Less annoying then having to work around those issues...
    German Slaughterhouse | GS Servers | Server Hardware
    IGN: [#OMEGA] - K2 (Hive)

    NS2 long standing issues (Fix ETA: Never):
    Bad Netcode (no adjustable tickrate, extremly delayed hit feedback, bad hitreg),
    Bad Performance (Poor Multi-threading, Mouse Lag, bad server performance, almost no multi-threading in server application)
    Bad Balance (GL Spam, semi-useless exos, poor chance of comebacks, no upkeep/or RT dimishing returns...)
    Technical Issues (Mouse Lag, Memory Leaks, Memory Corruption (and memory corruption server crashes))
    Bad Workshop implementation (down = kicks people/connection prboelms, out of date = nobody can join server),
    coolitic
  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 1,016 Advanced user
    Once the file not found error occurs it kicks all clients I am talking about having the recovery built into the game so that the game actually works for players and does not kick them off a server just b/c the workshop messed up and instead allows them to keep paying but on a different map.

    As you said this should not take long to make and therefore I can see no reason why such a fix can not be implemented into the game sooner rather than later other than the fact that this is not a major issue for competitive players and thus not likely very high on the list of things to fix.
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  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 1,016 Advanced user
    Yet again today better hope your server does not change maps b/c the workshop going down will take your server with it...
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    Server IP: NS2CO.IBISGaming.com
  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 1,016 Advanced user
    Still losing servers on map changes when the workshop fails and fail it does... Will we ever see some sort of recovery for these major problems?
    image
    Server IP: NS2.IBISGaming.com
    Server IP: NS2CO.IBISGaming.com
  • Omega_K2Omega_K2 Join Date: 2011-12-25 Member: 139013Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 558
    ZEROibis wrote: »
    Still losing servers on map changes when the workshop fails and fail it does... Will we ever see some sort of recovery for these major problems?

    Again, make a script that changes map to fix that problem for you. Don't count on UWE fixing things in a timely manner, not gonna happen.
    German Slaughterhouse | GS Servers | Server Hardware
    IGN: [#OMEGA] - K2 (Hive)

    NS2 long standing issues (Fix ETA: Never):
    Bad Netcode (no adjustable tickrate, extremly delayed hit feedback, bad hitreg),
    Bad Performance (Poor Multi-threading, Mouse Lag, bad server performance, almost no multi-threading in server application)
    Bad Balance (GL Spam, semi-useless exos, poor chance of comebacks, no upkeep/or RT dimishing returns...)
    Technical Issues (Mouse Lag, Memory Leaks, Memory Corruption (and memory corruption server crashes))
    Bad Workshop implementation (down = kicks people/connection prboelms, out of date = nobody can join server),
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members Posts: 1,684 Advanced user
    Omega_K2 wrote: »
    ZEROibis wrote: »
    Making it non dependent will likely take too much time. This is why I am still just asking for simple redundancy to allow for it to simply change the map until the workshop does work. This should take significantly less time to code and therefore might actually be implemented.

    You can do that yourself with a script with very little effort.

    The proper solution to the issue is simply to load the mods from disk, and distribute them to the players if connection to workshop fails.
    Also, a real download system that could be used along side would be nice (ala source), i.e. a repo where you can put hosted files. Plus no requirement for workshop (/private repos).

    Less annoying then having to work around those issues...

    Exactly what I was gonna say. You don't need UWE to make mod support since it's already readily available. We would of course first need someone to make a mod so these kinds of mods show up in server browser (which I would imagine should not be that hard).
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 1,016 Advanced user
    So the solution is to complain about this in the mod form and hope that someone fixes UWEs game for them?
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  • HamletHamlet Join Date: 2008-08-17 Member: 64837Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 373 Advanced user
    edited February 2014
    Happened to my server once.
    Apparently, workshop can't help but check if the installed mod is the lastest version, every time a map changes.
    Even if not a single mod changed, it will still try to check and when it can't reach the workshop, decides to kick everybody off.

    This default workshop behaviour is killing the server.
    The sad thing is that pretty much everybody who was on the server last round should already have all the required mods at hand.
    The required mod files are all already there, sitting on their disks...
    They don't need to check or download anything, they just need to connect again.

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