JektJoin Date: 2012-02-05Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
edited November 2013
There most certainly is an excuse. When a game has absolutley zero anti cheat measures while at the same time trying to be competitive. What choice does a player, or an admin of NS2 competitive play for that matter have to confirm or deny any suspicions.
Your reasoning and threat is just as ridiculous as this decision, @Gisp.
I Want to make myself perfectly clear.
If anyone is using hacks or other 3rd party software to cheat, and im able to confirm it. I will not only BAN the player from all UWE servers, but allso report em to VAC.
There is NO EXCUSE, what so ever to use hacks, for any reason.
If you suspect anyone using hacks, report em to the local server admin, or if on a UWE server, @Ironhorse or myself.
If you are a server admin, and have suspected hackers, and you see me online and want confirmation or just lack the meens to record, poke me and ill come.
You are allso free to contact @Ironhorse or myself whit evidence (such as recordings, logs etc.) At any other time, and we will take it from there.
rofl this is hilarious.
As you've implied, all ns2 bans, especially when the punishments become as serious as account banning or tournament banning, require solid evidence. However there's a pretty big catch isn't there?
It is literally impossible to get any evidence in this game that would hold under scrutiny, unless you use injections yourself to check. What are you going to do? Watch a buggy FPV fraps that can't prove anything beyond reasonable doubt? Watch a demo? oh wait.. pffhahahahaha....
As an aside, i think it's important that admins need to be chosen first and foremost on the basis of whether they understand the difference between simply using injections and 'cheating'. Even valve gives players the option to create VAC free servers.
Power in the hands of the incompetent will never bode well though, so i'm not too surprised the WCS has taken for this turn of events. See you in Germany
I Want to make myself perfectly clear.
If anyone is using hacks or other 3rd party software to cheat, and im able to confirm it. I will not only BAN the player from all UWE servers, but allso report em to VAC.
There is NO EXCUSE, what so ever to use hacks, for any reason.
If you suspect anyone using hacks, report em to the local server admin, or if on a UWE server, @Ironhorse or myself.
Name & shame is not okey - try and keep it constructive - GISP
Players and tournament admins have been using wallhacks to catch cheaters since NS1. It is the only way to reliably detect and prove that someone is wallhacking. If having had a wallhack installed is grounds for banning someone, I should've been banned 10 years ago, and so should dozens of other players who have never cheated in an actual match a single time in their lives -- their only crime having been attempting to prevent hackers from ruining this game.
Lets take a step back for a moment and attempt to look at this in an unbiased fashion. Lets just make a plain, unambiguous statement.
A player downloaded and installed third party software allowing them to cheat during a game involving other players who were not aware that the player was doing this, nor did they give prior permission to that player. The player stated that this was merely an attempt to acquire evidence that another player had done the same. This person was then banned by an automated anti cheat service, at which point they were also barred from entering a tournament for the same game.
Now, reading that, does the response seem unwarranted? Attempt to remove from your mind the fact that you know the player in question, and perhaps are on good terms or even friends with said player. I mean certainly, there may be extenuating circumstances to consider here, but at its core, I cannot see how this preliminary judgement can be viewed as unwarranted.
The issue is that people have now started to throw their weight around. Making threats and allegations, insulting others. Now either one side caves under the pressure of a mob mentality, losing all credibility and respect, or they stand fast and risk losing prominent figures in the scene. Unfortunately both sides seem to have put their pride on the line now, which means no good can come of this, regardless of which way it goes.
I Want to make myself perfectly clear.
If anyone is using hacks or other 3rd party software to cheat, and im able to confirm it. I will not only BAN the player from all UWE servers, but allso report em to VAC.
There is NO EXCUSE, what so ever to use hacks, for any reason.
If you suspect anyone using hacks, report em to the local server admin, or if on a UWE server, @Ironhorse or myself.
Your an idiot. Not that it even matters, no competitive player would be caught dead on the UWE servers.
Dumbest shit i've ever read... Why are you in charge of anything I don't know. There are perfectly legitimate reasons to use cheats to detect cheaters as outlined beautifully below. It's obvious you don't know jack shit.
An extremely reknown high-profile player that streams games, doing a community service of attempting to shut down a real cheater and you have the high-horse to just flat out ban anyone disregarding any reasoning.
Players and tournament admins have been using wallhacks to catch cheaters since NS1. It is the only way to reliably detect and prove that someone is wallhacking. If having had a wallhack installed is grounds for banning someone, I should've been banned 10 years ago, and so should dozens of other players who have never cheated in an actual match a single time in their lives -- their only crime having been attempting to prevent hackers from ruining this game.
Why are competitive players worrying about hackers in pub games?
Use a hack, week later you are VAC banned -> working as intended.
Nope, its a retarded admin decision that if its not overruled will tarnish the whole competition. Uninformed admins making decisions they do not understand
cheating has to result into an punishment, but for what ever reason a players in this community which we all know since the beta days should be able to clear his name again. NS2 is not some shitty cs:go game where you just creat a new account and keep playing. NS2 got this special community where people are working their ass off to create something awesome for everyone. This envirement NS2 has given us is a place where getting people back into the community and being able to clear ones name is something which is only possible for us as a community. I can not think of any other game where this is possible.
So just give him a chance to clear his name and is reputation. He choose the diffcult way to do so instead of just getting a new ID and pretend to be someone else. Done we all want to keep playing with such an awesome community where people are honest and try to fix their mistakes instead of running away.
no one suspects him of cheating and even if someone does, with the solutions provided we can be 100% sure that he is not cheating in any offical game.
Is there any comp players you are able to say that he is not using any kind of cheats or scripts and be 100% sure about it? there is no one, the only envirement is a LAN event or POV stream with live webcam behind him which eisfeldt is willing to do so.
I have full confidence in wasabi, virsoul, zefram, and the entire ns turd cup blue ribbon commission to right all wrong doings
nadyli did make the most cogent point in this entire thread though, I hope people aren't glossing over it even in spite of being fully in agreement with fana, dragon, etc...
on a serious note though, this post seriously brightened up a pretty dreary looking day for me, thx.
Forcing screenshots wont do anything to fix the issue, any reasonably well designed hack that bypasses vac can easily be extended to bypass that.. And for the record, the consistency check can be completely bypassed by those with knowledge, allowing you to make any kind of wallhack and aimbot you desire with 0 risk of a vac ban.
Someone using cheats and using the ingame tools of it. VAC can not do shit.
Thats the reason this community has to trust each other. Accusing someone to cheat is something realy diffcult in such a small community because its naming and shaming. Thats the reason eisfeldt wanted to get a solid proof before taking any other action. The way he did that was the most retarded way you can think off.
But the reason for that does not matter, cheating is cheating. Like i said before ... becoming clean again should be our focus as a community.
Lets take a step back for a moment and attempt to look at this in an unbiased fashion. Lets just make a plain, unambiguous statement.
A player downloaded and installed third party software allowing them to cheat during a game involving other players who were not aware that the player was doing this, nor did they give prior permission to that player.
hahah the thread that keeps on giving.
You call that an unbiased statement? 8/10 for using language that suggests that he actually did cheat and that there is solid evidence showing him doing so.
So just give him a chance to clear his name and is reputation.
No, Eis does not need to clear his name and reputation at all. That's ridiculous. Any and all damages are solely the responsibility of the NS2WC (and any UWE cough orange pants cough) staff.
They failed to prove that he was cheating, and then proceeded to ban him without evidence supporting their allegation. Any reasonable person would know doing that is going to tarnish that player's reputation justifiable or not.
Ofcourse, it's up to Eis if he wants to bend over or not.
GISPBattle GorgeDenmarkJoin Date: 2004-03-20Member: 27460Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester, Forum staff
edited November 2013
Its not a popularity content, but how would it reflect on me as a admin, if the same rules didnt apply to people i like or dislike, casual or pro. I know Eissfeldt to be a great guy, but the fact is he used a hack on a VAC secured server.
I have to stay compleatly neutral when it comes down to it.
I will however have a talk whit @Eissfeldt and @Ironhorse in private.
As for his participation in the NS2WC, thats up to the turnament admins
Since I've been asked twice to post my opinion here, I made my mind.
Here is my point of vue :
I don't wanna tie my name to any kind of vac banned account. I won't beg or harass ns2wc admins to unban him.
This is all about Eiss, his team and the admins themselves.
I'm not seeing any point of just spamming dramas all over uwe's forum.
However, it's pretty bad to lose a player if this story is the true truth. But, in any case I will disagree for such a rule : banning people from all cups if he has VAC Ban. I'm kind of a VAC Banned account racist, you know.
We can't see anywhere some kind of steam support report about this VAC Ban so I won't defend any opinion, the decision is up to admins right now. I won't push them to accept the suggestion made above (check eiss's stream after every match). It's just a non sense to give more work to people that are busy organizing such a great event. God, they aren't even paid for that.
Anyway, Eissfeldt, I respect the player but who can know the true truth ? It's internet guys... I'm not a witness in this situation.
You seem to be under the assumption that VAC is perfect, it can stop some old and entry level stuff sure, but admins with the proper tools is what usually keeps servers safe.
Plus VAC ban times can vary from hours to even months after it has detected something.
Lets take a step back for a moment and attempt to look at this in an unbiased fashion. Lets just make a plain, unambiguous statement.
A player downloaded and installed third party software allowing them to cheat during a game involving other players who were not aware that the player was doing this, nor did they give prior permission to that player.
hahah the thread that keeps on giving.
You call that an unbiased statement? 8/10 for using language that suggests that he actually did cheat and that there is solid evidence showing him doing so.
I am more than willing to resolve any grievance you have with my account of the situation, and change any part that is not based on verifiable data.
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
I can't understand the logic in the ban and the refusal to reconsider it.
He never cheated in a competitive game. He got banned by VAC outside of competitive gaming. He has a reasonable excuse for why he did it.
Now one might argue that he is stupid, fair enough, he might be. But he clearly showed his willingness to prove that he is not cheating. Considering that there is no report of him ever cheating in a competitive game, that sounds already good enough for me.
This is a community tournament, we celebrate ns2. Banning players for things they did outside of the competitive scene seems unreasonable and against the spirit of the tournament. At least the spirit i had in mind when i donated to support the tournament.
This is a community tournament, we celebrate ns2. Banning players for things they did outside of the competitive scene seems unreasonable and against the spirit of the tournament.
Lets continue on where that logic ends off.
Since it was outside the competitive scene, what if the player in question is then banned from all non official matches. He may compete in any and all games that his team is scheduled to play inside the tournament, but remains barred from all other games and servers. You would view this as reasonable, yes?
Everyone even attempting to debate "should eissfeldt be allowed to play in the wc" is doing so in vain anyways as someone pointed out earlier.
Eissfeldt sucks and he cheats and blah blah blah cry baby crap, no one cares, but Fissfeldt on the otherhand, is an awesome player and decent guy who will make a great addition to his team and will do great in the WC and never cheat. So that ends the entire debate of that point.
You should be using this thread to seriously reconsider your community "leaders", "figureheads", or whatever that are being relied upon to make administrative decisions like this. Clearly they're not competent and never have been. At the very least you should be demanding some deference to community members actually capable of identifying cheaters or resolving competitive play issues. Obviously your current "leaders" don't do this or have a warped view of who actually is capable of making these determinations otherwise these issues would never crop up in the first place. Granted you're such a small community now that "community leaders" are basically just whoever ticked the "I wanna waste my sunday evenings babysitting people playing videogames" checkbox when they looked at their calendars.
You should be using this thread to seriously reconsider your community "leaders", "figureheads", or whatever that are being relied upon to make administrative decisions like this. Clearly they're not competent and never have been.
Are you still playing ns2 at least ? Why the hell would you bother posting your opinion there.
Should we also talk about the reasons you suddenly quit archaea and started fakenicking on every server you joined ?
However, these community leaders, as you call them, are giving their free time to make something happen in this game. Decision making is sometimes hard and you have to face community's opinion (cf. Swalk with his retarded decisions but made NSL seasons happen and I still respect the effort).
naa, I stopped actively playing 6-8 months ago, but I did try to play again at one point, but couldn't ever get the game to load reliably.
I've explained why i fakenicked to anyone that's asked me directly. I don't feel bad about it at all. Honestly I feel pretty justified in doing it after everything was said and done tbh.
but I'm pretty sure I covered your last point. That's why I made it a point that your current leaders need to atleast show deference to the fana's, dragon's, elodea's, etc...
I qualified my entire statement with exactly what you're saying, that you have limited resources, and they're volunteers etc.. So I don't understand how your point in anyway contends mine.
Since I've been asked twice to post my opinion here, I made my mind.
Here is my point of vue :
I don't wanna tie my name to any kind of vac banned account. I won't beg or harass ns2wc admins to unban him.
This is all about Eiss, his team and the admins themselves.
I'm not seeing any point of just spamming dramas all over uwe's forum.
However, it's pretty bad to lose a player if this story is the true truth. But, in any case I will disagree for such a rule : banning people from all cups if he has VAC Ban. I'm kind of a VAC Banned account racist, you know.
We can't see anywhere some kind of steam support report about this VAC Ban so I won't defend any opinion, the decision is up to admins right now. I won't push them to accept the suggestion made above (check eiss's stream after every match). It's just a non sense to give more work to people that are busy organizing such a great event. God, they aren't even paid for that.
Anyway, Eissfeldt, I respect the player but who can know the true truth ? It's internet guys... I'm not a witness in this situation.
But IMO, he's not cheating.
Peace.
You can use the proposed stream in two ways:
1.- Getting a ref to watch the entire thing live. If it's public it's guaranteed someone will watch it anyways and point if there's something fishy. In any case, this is forcing a ref to "waste time".
2.- Using it as a replacement of demos. If the other team complains about eiss cheating, the admins can then check the stream, if the stream is missing then there is no helping his case, just like, if demos were working and a player refused to give his demo he'd be in deep shit. This doesn't waste anyone's time.
Eissfeldt sucks and he cheats and blah blah blah cry baby crap, no one cares, but Fissfeldt on the otherhand, is an awesome player and decent guy who will make a great addition to his team and will do great in the WC and never cheat. So that ends the entire debate of that point.
He should wear this, if he makes it to cologne, lol:
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2013
I certainly agree with ray that making decisions can be tough, and running competitive events in ns1/2 has always been known as a thankless job. The people who put in the effort needed to get things done deserve all the more respect for that, including Zefram and WasabiOne. They have both done a lot of good for the ns2 community, and will hopefully continue to do so in the future.
That does not, however, mean that they should not be given proper notice when they make poor decisions. One mark of a good leader is the ability to accept responsibility and to recognize the mistakes you've made when they are pointed out to you, instead of taking the easy way out and saving face. I hope these guys will prove up to that task.
In the end, this is a tiny community, and we are not, as Tane pointed out in a different NS2WC thread, professional players, nor should be we treated as such. If this was a huge game with millions of dollars in prize money on the line, sponsorships and player contracts, then it might be possible say that Eissfeldt's actions were unacceptable. The reality, however, is that everyone who plays this game are pure amateurs, and we do it for the fun. In such a community, justice and fair treatment must always trump public relations concerns -- and make no mistake, the only reason Eissfeldt is banned is because of public relations concerns.
I'm sorry, but if Valve catch you with cheats installed, whether you used them or not, that's idiotic behaviour and you should be punished for it. The use is implied by the mere fact it's installed on the system. You can't expect any gaming tournament to allow this. Say, if Blizzard banned a high-ranking SC2 player for cheating, they would not be allowed to play in a tournament. Same should go for any other game.
Professional cs 1.6/go player, swag; used cheats off-client and still competes online / @ lan with his high skill level - He received a vac ban, but they would never take him out of the tournaments because he is one of the top NA players in the world (mainly from 1.6) -- and they know he doesn't actually cheat, plus he's beyond lan proven
I've played with Eissfeldt, and he doesn't cheat.. you could ruin an entire team (not like they're are many for this game) from entering a tourny because they're down a player (if he's on a team - not following the game atm)
Comments
Your reasoning and threat is just as ridiculous as this decision, @Gisp.
As you've implied, all ns2 bans, especially when the punishments become as serious as account banning or tournament banning, require solid evidence. However there's a pretty big catch isn't there?
It is literally impossible to get any evidence in this game that would hold under scrutiny, unless you use injections yourself to check. What are you going to do? Watch a buggy FPV fraps that can't prove anything beyond reasonable doubt? Watch a demo? oh wait.. pffhahahahaha....
As an aside, i think it's important that admins need to be chosen first and foremost on the basis of whether they understand the difference between simply using injections and 'cheating'. Even valve gives players the option to create VAC free servers.
Power in the hands of the incompetent will never bode well though, so i'm not too surprised the WCS has taken for this turn of events. See you in Germany
A player downloaded and installed third party software allowing them to cheat during a game involving other players who were not aware that the player was doing this, nor did they give prior permission to that player. The player stated that this was merely an attempt to acquire evidence that another player had done the same. This person was then banned by an automated anti cheat service, at which point they were also barred from entering a tournament for the same game.
Now, reading that, does the response seem unwarranted? Attempt to remove from your mind the fact that you know the player in question, and perhaps are on good terms or even friends with said player. I mean certainly, there may be extenuating circumstances to consider here, but at its core, I cannot see how this preliminary judgement can be viewed as unwarranted.
The issue is that people have now started to throw their weight around. Making threats and allegations, insulting others. Now either one side caves under the pressure of a mob mentality, losing all credibility and respect, or they stand fast and risk losing prominent figures in the scene. Unfortunately both sides seem to have put their pride on the line now, which means no good can come of this, regardless of which way it goes.
Unfortunate.
Why are competitive players worrying about hackers in pub games?
Use a hack, week later you are VAC banned -> working as intended.
Take a look at the community mate, anyone in any sort of position of power (server admin / community admin) is a competitive player. We run this shit
fyi, no one gives a shit he was VAC banned. Its the fact he's banned from the WC
cheating has to result into an punishment, but for what ever reason a players in this community which we all know since the beta days should be able to clear his name again. NS2 is not some shitty cs:go game where you just creat a new account and keep playing. NS2 got this special community where people are working their ass off to create something awesome for everyone. This envirement NS2 has given us is a place where getting people back into the community and being able to clear ones name is something which is only possible for us as a community. I can not think of any other game where this is possible.
So just give him a chance to clear his name and is reputation. He choose the diffcult way to do so instead of just getting a new ID and pretend to be someone else. Done we all want to keep playing with such an awesome community where people are honest and try to fix their mistakes instead of running away.
no one suspects him of cheating and even if someone does, with the solutions provided we can be 100% sure that he is not cheating in any offical game.
Is there any comp players you are able to say that he is not using any kind of cheats or scripts and be 100% sure about it? there is no one, the only envirement is a LAN event or POV stream with live webcam behind him which eisfeldt is willing to do so.
nadyli did make the most cogent point in this entire thread though, I hope people aren't glossing over it even in spite of being fully in agreement with fana, dragon, etc...
on a serious note though, this post seriously brightened up a pretty dreary looking day for me, thx.
Why even mess around trying to catch hackers? If you run the server just ban them. If you're in a pub server, just leave or votekick.
VAC takes care of it, clearly.
like u can see below
Someone using cheats and using the ingame tools of it. VAC can not do shit.
Thats the reason this community has to trust each other. Accusing someone to cheat is something realy diffcult in such a small community because its naming and shaming. Thats the reason eisfeldt wanted to get a solid proof before taking any other action. The way he did that was the most retarded way you can think off.
But the reason for that does not matter, cheating is cheating. Like i said before ... becoming clean again should be our focus as a community.
You call that an unbiased statement? 8/10 for using language that suggests that he actually did cheat and that there is solid evidence showing him doing so.
No, Eis does not need to clear his name and reputation at all. That's ridiculous. Any and all damages are solely the responsibility of the NS2WC (and any UWE cough orange pants cough) staff.
They failed to prove that he was cheating, and then proceeded to ban him without evidence supporting their allegation. Any reasonable person would know doing that is going to tarnish that player's reputation justifiable or not.
Ofcourse, it's up to Eis if he wants to bend over or not.
I have to stay compleatly neutral when it comes down to it.
I will however have a talk whit @Eissfeldt and @Ironhorse in private.
As for his participation in the NS2WC, thats up to the turnament admins
Here is my point of vue :
I don't wanna tie my name to any kind of vac banned account. I won't beg or harass ns2wc admins to unban him.
This is all about Eiss, his team and the admins themselves.
I'm not seeing any point of just spamming dramas all over uwe's forum.
However, it's pretty bad to lose a player if this story is the true truth. But, in any case I will disagree for such a rule : banning people from all cups if he has VAC Ban. I'm kind of a VAC Banned account racist, you know.
We can't see anywhere some kind of steam support report about this VAC Ban so I won't defend any opinion, the decision is up to admins right now. I won't push them to accept the suggestion made above (check eiss's stream after every match). It's just a non sense to give more work to people that are busy organizing such a great event. God, they aren't even paid for that.
Anyway, Eissfeldt, I respect the player but who can know the true truth ? It's internet guys... I'm not a witness in this situation.
But IMO, he's not cheating.
Peace.
You seem to be under the assumption that VAC is perfect, it can stop some old and entry level stuff sure, but admins with the proper tools is what usually keeps servers safe.
Plus VAC ban times can vary from hours to even months after it has detected something.
I am more than willing to resolve any grievance you have with my account of the situation, and change any part that is not based on verifiable data.
He never cheated in a competitive game. He got banned by VAC outside of competitive gaming. He has a reasonable excuse for why he did it.
Now one might argue that he is stupid, fair enough, he might be. But he clearly showed his willingness to prove that he is not cheating. Considering that there is no report of him ever cheating in a competitive game, that sounds already good enough for me.
This is a community tournament, we celebrate ns2. Banning players for things they did outside of the competitive scene seems unreasonable and against the spirit of the tournament. At least the spirit i had in mind when i donated to support the tournament.
Lets continue on where that logic ends off.
Since it was outside the competitive scene, what if the player in question is then banned from all non official matches. He may compete in any and all games that his team is scheduled to play inside the tournament, but remains barred from all other games and servers. You would view this as reasonable, yes?
Eissfeldt sucks and he cheats and blah blah blah cry baby crap, no one cares, but Fissfeldt on the otherhand, is an awesome player and decent guy who will make a great addition to his team and will do great in the WC and never cheat. So that ends the entire debate of that point.
You should be using this thread to seriously reconsider your community "leaders", "figureheads", or whatever that are being relied upon to make administrative decisions like this. Clearly they're not competent and never have been. At the very least you should be demanding some deference to community members actually capable of identifying cheaters or resolving competitive play issues. Obviously your current "leaders" don't do this or have a warped view of who actually is capable of making these determinations otherwise these issues would never crop up in the first place. Granted you're such a small community now that "community leaders" are basically just whoever ticked the "I wanna waste my sunday evenings babysitting people playing videogames" checkbox when they looked at their calendars.
C'est la vie
Are you still playing ns2 at least ? Why the hell would you bother posting your opinion there.
Should we also talk about the reasons you suddenly quit archaea and started fakenicking on every server you joined ?
However, these community leaders, as you call them, are giving their free time to make something happen in this game. Decision making is sometimes hard and you have to face community's opinion (cf. Swalk with his retarded decisions but made NSL seasons happen and I still respect the effort).
I've explained why i fakenicked to anyone that's asked me directly. I don't feel bad about it at all. Honestly I feel pretty justified in doing it after everything was said and done tbh.
but I'm pretty sure I covered your last point. That's why I made it a point that your current leaders need to atleast show deference to the fana's, dragon's, elodea's, etc...
I qualified my entire statement with exactly what you're saying, that you have limited resources, and they're volunteers etc.. So I don't understand how your point in anyway contends mine.
1.- Getting a ref to watch the entire thing live. If it's public it's guaranteed someone will watch it anyways and point if there's something fishy. In any case, this is forcing a ref to "waste time".
2.- Using it as a replacement of demos. If the other team complains about eiss cheating, the admins can then check the stream, if the stream is missing then there is no helping his case, just like, if demos were working and a player refused to give his demo he'd be in deep shit. This doesn't waste anyone's time.
He should wear this, if he makes it to cologne, lol:
That does not, however, mean that they should not be given proper notice when they make poor decisions. One mark of a good leader is the ability to accept responsibility and to recognize the mistakes you've made when they are pointed out to you, instead of taking the easy way out and saving face. I hope these guys will prove up to that task.
In the end, this is a tiny community, and we are not, as Tane pointed out in a different NS2WC thread, professional players, nor should be we treated as such. If this was a huge game with millions of dollars in prize money on the line, sponsorships and player contracts, then it might be possible say that Eissfeldt's actions were unacceptable. The reality, however, is that everyone who plays this game are pure amateurs, and we do it for the fun. In such a community, justice and fair treatment must always trump public relations concerns -- and make no mistake, the only reason Eissfeldt is banned is because of public relations concerns.
I hear a certain team (i will not use any names) has a huge sponsorship deal incoming from a global brand.
Steam with vac: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197960284752
Profile: http://play.esea.net/users/270583
League history: http://play.esea.net/users/270583?tab=history (doesn't include lans/events outside of esea)
Team: http://play.esea.net/teams/74783
Professional cs 1.6/go player, swag; used cheats off-client and still competes online / @ lan with his high skill level - He received a vac ban, but they would never take him out of the tournaments because he is one of the top NA players in the world (mainly from 1.6) -- and they know he doesn't actually cheat, plus he's beyond lan proven
I've played with Eissfeldt, and he doesn't cheat.. you could ruin an entire team (not like they're are many for this game) from entering a tourny because they're down a player (if he's on a team - not following the game atm)
(pic taken from http://www.ns2wc.com/)
Shouldn't we actually be going for this?
The way this is going is super sad...