It's happened.... hitching problems found and fixed (mostly still WIP)

135

Comments

  • joederpjoederp Join Date: 2012-11-02 Member: 165992Members
    edited November 2013
    When joining normal servers I am not seeing any improvement, is that expected? Also I got kicked from a server due to inconsistent game files, is that from modifying the consistencyconfig.json ?
  • HivelordHivelord Join Date: 2003-06-21 Member: 17567Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    Yup without consistancy is a lot faster on loads. But point is folk, we need cosistancy until something better comes a long.

    No. All of the real hacks bypass hash checking anyway as they're dll injects. All this is doing is stopping pink skulks, which I care nothing about. It's not worth this crippling performance.

    The most amazing part about all of this, consistency is literally crippling performance and its not even stopping the real hacks.
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    Hivelord wrote: »
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    Yup without consistancy is a lot faster on loads. But point is folk, we need cosistancy until something better comes a long.

    No. All of the real hacks bypass hash checking anyway as they're dll injects. All this is doing is stopping pink skulks, which I care nothing about. It's not worth this crippling performance.

    The most amazing part about all of this, consistency is literally crippling performance and its not even stopping the real hacks.

    Hopefully we can get a couple of servers to run this and I'm sure the pub scene would love to be able to mod their clients again.

    Though the issue comes back to this.

    1PwUVzFl.jpg

    We would need to be able to record demos to help identify cheaters.
  • lwflwf Join Date: 2006-11-03 Member: 58311Members, Constellation
    Consistency checking is necessary. Yes, it's possible to bypass. What isn't? The point it's there so that it has to be bypassed, that way VAC can detect the bypass. If you disable consistency checking you might as well disable VAC. It becomes unnecessary as well since cheats can just be built in Lua and there's no way VAC could detect that. But perhaps more importantly it stops "casual", risk free cheating like the one above.
  • MigeMige Join Date: 2005-03-19 Member: 45796Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited November 2013
    Build 252 (reinforced) did bring somekind forced texture streaming and I got hitches. build 246 (7months ago) did bring a long waited consistency hash and I didn't have any of these hitches. Server admins can easily change consistency file if they want to... a lot easier than upload hundreds files to server when every new build could broke the consistency check.. at the time there was servers were you couldn't upload or have good ftp access

    Don't know how strict consistency is now days (in public)
  • SamusDroidSamusDroid Colorado Join Date: 2013-05-13 Member: 185219Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    edited November 2013
    From what I understand texture streaming loads things on demand instead of everything at once on load. Which this undoes in a way. Loads everything on load.
  • sotanahtsotanaht Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179215Members
    Well even having disabled my consistency as per Ghostthree3's instructions I am not getting anything close to a 10s load time (more on the order of 60-90s). It DOES seem to be faster than prior to disabling checking, which was probably closer to 2-3 minutes. The mod itself still has no effect of course.
  • SewlekSewlek The programmer previously known as Schimmel Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    ...which is now Sewlek's job and he isn't who I'd truly call UWE even if they did employ him recently...

    I wouldnt say that 2 years ago is recently
  • KamamuraKamamura Join Date: 2013-03-06 Member: 183736Members, Reinforced - Gold
    While you push and pull various knobs and levers, hoping for an unlikely miracle, y'all can as well listen to some folksy music:

  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
    note that I tested with a SSD!
    10 seconds no consistency is with a ssd.

    If I on a ssd even notice such huge differences, I can imagine non ssd is even a bigger difference.
  • CuelCuel Join Date: 2013-01-22 Member: 181295Members, Reinforced - Shadow
  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    Yup without consistancy is a lot faster on loads. But point is folk, we need cosistancy until something better comes a long.

    No. All of the real hacks bypass hash checking anyway as they're dll injects. All this is doing is stopping pink skulks, which I care nothing about. It's not worth this crippling performance.

    #freexao
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited November 2013
    lwf wrote: »
    Consistency checking is necessary. Yes, it's possible to bypass. What isn't? The point it's there so that it has to be bypassed, that way VAC can detect the bypass. If you disable consistency checking you might as well disable VAC. It becomes unnecessary as well since cheats can just be built in Lua and there's no way VAC could detect that. But perhaps more importantly it stops "casual", risk free cheating like the one above.

    I'm sorry, but I was unaware VAC did anything in this game at all. I could google and have a wallhack for ns2 running and undetectable in under 10 minutes.
    Sewlek wrote: »
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    ...which is now Sewlek's job and he isn't who I'd truly call UWE even if they did employ him recently...

    I wouldnt say that 2 years ago is recently

    Wow really? I thought you got picked up like a month before 250 got released lmao.
  • Goliath VietnamGoliath Vietnam Join Date: 2013-01-07 Member: 178080Members
    Server Vanila ( no mods include consitency-check remove ) >> load map fast under <30s and change map fast , also no more red plug >> in server have 2,3 mods you can see these problem happens alot , and make NS2 some time flinching screen

    Remove consitency is good for performance , especially other Multiplayers game like AVA , CSGO ,L4D2 have less loadtime , which connect more players easyli
    Thats why so many players left NS2 , they cant stand load times and crash
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Server Vanila ( no mods include consitency-check remove ) >> load map fast under <30s and change map fast , also no more red plug >> in server have 2,3 mods you can see these problem happens alot , and make NS2 some time flinching screen

    Remove consitency is good for performance , especially other Multiplayers game like AVA , CSGO ,L4D2 have less loadtime , which connect more players easyli
    Thats why so many players left NS2 , they cant stand load times and crash

    This is actually an interesting point that makes a bit of sense, with less flooding from hash checking people with less stable connections would probably get less connection issues.
  • ezekelezekel Join Date: 2012-11-29 Member: 173589Members, NS2 Map Tester
    edited November 2013
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    Yup without consistancy is a lot faster on loads. But point is folk, we need cosistancy until something better comes a long.

    No. All of the real hacks bypass hash checking anyway as they're dll injects. All this is doing is stopping pink skulks, which I care nothing about. It's not worth this crippling performance.

    I don't use anything like that, but who cares; it's not like a glowing skulk aims for you, quake allows you to color your opponents to whatever you like; most common would be neon blue or neon white, including fullbrighting the entire map (removes all dark spots) and making the model anything you want for a specific sound

    To me that just feels a lot better and helps with focusing
  • ezekelezekel Join Date: 2012-11-29 Member: 173589Members, NS2 Map Tester
    edited November 2013
    Hivelord wrote: »
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    Yup without consistancy is a lot faster on loads. But point is folk, we need cosistancy until something better comes a long.

    No. All of the real hacks bypass hash checking anyway as they're dll injects. All this is doing is stopping pink skulks, which I care nothing about. It's not worth this crippling performance.

    The most amazing part about all of this, consistency is literally crippling performance and its not even stopping the real hacks.

    Hopefully we can get a couple of servers to run this and I'm sure the pub scene would love to be able to mod their clients again.

    Though the issue comes back to this.



    We would need to be able to record demos to help identify cheaters.

    sv_pure 2 stops that
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited November 2013
    OK, HERE IS A MIDDLE GROUND

    I just tested on my server how fast it would be if you did a check [ "*.lua" ] consistency. Hashing all 773 lua files is just as fast (to my eyes anyway) as doing no consistency at all.
    What does this mean? We can have our cake and eat it too. This stops people coding in aim bots all walls for themselves and actually allows people to mod the "most moddable game ever made". Yes people WILL be able to use pink skulks, personally, don't care. People can use those red gun models on the workshop they seem to have a hard on for while loading in in under 10 seconds as well.

    Make. This. A standard. Check lua files only. Even if it's just for public servers so people don't hate playing the game, I know I for one am EXTREMELY put off by load times and sometimes just /quit while loading. I can understand more advanced checking for competitive servers, though if some alternative to it can be found I'm all for it.

    EDIT: The largest hit by far is hashing the dds files, it's more than twice the total of everything else to hash on load. So yes, you COULD add some other file types (or more specific files, stop hashing map props srsly...) but in all honestly, I really want the game to return its state of extreme customisability. Especially if the alternative is doing extensive tests to see just how far you can push it before it's hurting performance again (this has a tendency to stretch over and over too as "that only added a LITTLE bit, we can go more" - repeat) only to be shooting myself in the foot ruining the game's modifiability.
  • SamusDroidSamusDroid Colorado Join Date: 2013-05-13 Member: 185219Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    You just need to exclude .model .material. and .dds.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited November 2013
    Actually, game_setup.xml should probably also be checked, it's one file and it's one worth doing.

    Here is the default consistency check file:

    2LNANFU.png

    I'm actually not up to date on what "restrict" means, none of my servers even have it. However, I would like to see it looking like this:

    5EL4v4y.png

    I left the restrict there due to my ignorance of it. If you can list file types samus that are worth doing (I will test how they impact load time/hitches) then I will add them to this list.

    EDIT: Awesome, the code tags in the forum are broken. Shows fine on save comment, then fails on refresh.

    EDIT2: It's collapsing my post, sweet.... edits incoming.

    EDIT3: Try and collapse images forum.

    EDIT4: I'd rather not add anything else to the list unless there's a legitimate reason to do so (ie. cheating). Lua I get, you could easily code in hacks without them being checked, but anything else I just don't see a reason for. It just pisses people off in one way or another (load times or blocking their cool mods).

    EDIT5: Ok here's a new one that will block the game_setup.xml file, lua files, and changes to the skulk, lerk and fade models. Surely everyone is happy with this one?

    WctK5Jf.png
  • A_PajanderA_Pajander Join Date: 2002-12-31 Member: 11695Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    The developers didn't fix the #1 gripe with the game that EVERYONE had.

    #1 priority for ALL members of the community, developers let us sit and stew for over a year.

    I don't remember signing that.

    It's awesome that there's gonna be a fix for a problem SOME members of the community are having but I haven't really noticed it personally. So tone down the hyperbole.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Updated post above with new checks.
  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    You could also add the dds files for the player textures, would prevent the glowing models and its not many
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Yeah I'm adding a ton of stuff right now. Big config coming soon, not happy about it, but it's the only way it'll get accepted, I just hope it's still efficient.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited November 2013
    Ok, got a config. Like I expected, it's far bigger than I would have liked, but it's still probably twice as fast to load on.

    uJyXf0x.png

    Link to code below.
  • GhoulofGSG9GhoulofGSG9 Join Date: 2013-03-31 Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts
    edited November 2013
    @Ghostthree even as it speeds up things dont exclude models/props/*
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    Ok, got a config. Like I expected, it's far bigger than I would have liked, but it's still probably twice as fast to load on.

    eC5fKIw.png

    Could you use something like gist to post those config files?
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited November 2013
    Here.

    https://gist.github.com/anonymous/7577968

    This one I'm happy with.

    Runs well.

    EDIT: It's now running on my server (search for server name "seraphic"), should be huge improvement in load times, and I very veryyy much doubt you can pink skulk or invisi wall on it.
  • SewlekSewlek The programmer previously known as Schimmel Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    Wow really? I thought you got picked up like a month before 250 got released lmao.

    he nope, i worked since early beta on ns2 and wrote big parts of the lua code
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    That's news to me. Nice job!
  • GhoulofGSG9GhoulofGSG9 Join Date: 2013-03-31 Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    Here.

    https://gist.github.com/anonymous/7577968

    This one I'm happy with.

    Runs well.

    EDIT: It's now running on my server (search for server name "seraphic"), should be huge improvement in load times, and I very veryyy much doubt you can pink skulk or invisi wall on it.

    Blue marines are still possible ;)
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