People can do whatever they want with their money. Don't shame them because they want to help create something that you don't care about. You wouldn't ask someone who donates money to a library to instead give their money to pay your bills because you don't like reading. Some of the posts in this thread are just obnoxious.
I think it's fair if you feel let down by the hype, though.
I'm guessing this was directed at me, so let me enlighten you Mr. Competitive player.
REINFORCEMENT PROGRAM what purpose did this serve? That's right it was due to the development budget of NS2 drying up. Community plz donate money so we can continue the development and improvement of NS2 into the foreseeable future. Nothing at all wrong with this it was a great idea for UWE to generate more cash flow.
Now, there is two huge issues with this announcement. The first is it is tapping into the same money source that is for the reinforcement program which directly impacts the entire player base. The second even though Wassabi stated this is independent of UWE which it is not (Hugh/NS2 website being utilized to promote this) is that they stated during the broadcast that UWE would be financially supporting this but at a limited capacity (paying for the studio). Lets do some quick math 6 players per team 4 teams. How much does a plane ticket cost form the USA/ Australia to Europe? At least $1200 so at least half that budget alone is just for sending 12 people on a plane to Europe. So that points to how much $$$$$ UWE is willing to put up if they actually raise the 30K.
So now you are taking my reinforcement money and siphoning it to pay for some kids to have a paid vacation/gaming event to Europe. While that money was to be directly for the further development of NS2. Now you see why this annoys me.
People can do whatever they want with their money. Don't shame them because they want to help create something that you don't care about. You wouldn't ask someone who donates money to a library to instead give their money to pay your bills because you don't like reading. Some of the posts in this thread are just obnoxious.
I think it's fair if you feel let down by the hype, though.
I'm guessing this was directed at me, so let me enlighten you Mr. Competitive player.
REINFORCEMENT PROGRAM what purpose did this serve? That's right it was due to the development budget of NS2 drying up. Community plz donate money so we can continue the development and improvement of NS2 into the foreseeable future. Nothing at all wrong with this it was a great idea for UWE to generate more cash flow.
Now, there is two huge issues with this announcement. The first is it is tapping into the same money source that is for the reinforcement program which directly impacts the entire player base. The second even though Wassabi stated this is independent of UWE which it is not (Hugh/NS2 website being utilized to promote this) is that they stated during the broadcast that UWE would be financially supporting this but at a limited capacity (paying for the studio). Lets do some quick math 6 players per team 4 teams. How much does a plane ticket cost form the USA/ Australia to Europe? At least $1200 so at least half that budget alone is just for sending 12 people on a plane to Europe. So that points to how much $$$$$ UWE is willing to put up if they actually raise the 30K.
So now you are taking my reinforcement money and siphoning it to pay for some kids to have a paid vacation/gaming event to Europe. While that money was to be directly for the further development of NS2. Now you see why this annoys me.
Oh I'm sorry, but do you work in UWE's accounting department and have intimate knowledge of their budgets, cash flow projections, and access to their P&L's? You have a credible source that the money is coming from the reinforced donations?
No? Okay, then that just nullifies everything you just said. Thanks.
@ Belacose: I totally agree with you, but you got some of it wrong: 30'000$ are raised over crowedsourcing to help organize the event and fly the people to germany, the rest serves as prize pool.
Now UWE is tapping 30'000$ from its own resources, without a doubt partwise from the Reinforced program to pay the location and frontpage takeover of Twitch Tv.
@ Belacose: Now UWE is tapping 30'000$ from its own resources, without a doubt partwise from the Reinforced program to pay the location and frontpage takeover of Twitch Tv.
What resources? The continuing sales of soduku and ns2? This takes money away from NS2 in one way or another. They aren't going to risk taking a penny away from their next indie smash hit, and money certainly doesn't grow on trees.
i didn't read the entire thread so I have no idea if my post is going to mean anything
firefall tried to buy its esports scene too, but even after their monthly tournaments of $5,000, weekly $1,000 and a promise of $200,000 (so these tournaments would continue for another couple months), they just couldn't retain the players who did come to the game.
strenx and other big named quake players came over but quit after a week or two because it was a pretty shitty unbalanced game, hopefully NS2 isn't trying something similar.
basically, you can't cover up bad game mechanics with money
tribes ascend and shootmania also tried similar tactics
you can't create a competitive game if your game isn't good enough to get a strong player base first
UWE could just make a post saying a tournament or event is coming this weeked, tune in if you like the competitive scene.
Instead we get this hype it was just like that entire video showing us 20 pixels of biodome in the corner. Trust me its the best map so far (IN MY OPINION if you plan on disagreeing here)
But i think instead of holding back on information you could try a new approach and INFORM us with upcoming things, post progress of builds or maps like discovery, i cant sit and wait a half year for a map or a HMG.
@ Belacose: I totally agree with you, but you got some of it wrong: 30'000$ are raised over crowedsourcing to help organize the event and fly the people to germany, the rest serves as prize pool.
Now UWE is tapping 30'000$ from its own resources, without a doubt partwise from the Reinforced program to pay the location and frontpage takeover of Twitch Tv.
Why do people think this?
In any business, you budget money for various things. In a game development studio, it's things like development (artwork, animation, programmers), advertisement, and probably other stuff of which I'm not aware. Who are you to say that UWE is taking money out of its development pot (a.k.a. the Reinforcement donations) and putting it into its advertisement/marketing pot (helping fund the tournament)?
As far as I know, UWE is paying for the studio and front page Twitch. The crowdfunding is where the plane/train tickets, housing costs, transportation, and food comes in.
Please, get your facts straight before you start spreading rumors about where money is coming for this. And honestly, for a company that spent $550k on a content patch, $30,000 (if this is indeed the amount that they're putting into the studio/twitch) is not a great deal of money for reaching a market of ~200k people. If even 3,000 viewers of the tournament purchase NS2 at a discounted price of $10, guess what? They make their money back. More likely, they will make money from this event. And we have better systems in place now to retain those players. Tutorials, training videos, performance is better.
As for the way the announcement came out, I also believe it was over-hyped. I had prior knowledge that the tournament was going to be announced, and when I saw Hugh's video on Friday night, I thought he was going to be announcing something different. I thought, "Wow, this would be a good idea. Announce the tournament alongside some upcoming content, maybe match-making. That would be really cool." Unfortunately, that didn't occur.
Now, do all of us have a right to be upset? I think so. Hyping up the announcement with things like "It will impact every NS2 player", and "change the way the game is played in late 2013 and into 2014" was a HUGE mistake. A mistake that Hugh has almost certainly realized. Linking the Donation Page through a UWE hosted website, at least initially, was probably a mistake as well, since it reinforced the idea that some had that this was a UWE sponsored event and a UWE request for more money.
But it isn't.
This is the competitive community asking for help to put on an event. And all we need is a little bit.
It's entertainment for most of you. That's the biggest question I'm seeing... "why should we care?" Entertainment. Six+ hours of NS2 coverage. Interviews, recaps of the tournament, and most importantly matches. The top FOUR teams in the world competing with no ping or equipment discrepancies. You can watch the best teams, with the best shots and the best teamwork duel it out on a live stage, playing this game we all love.
And all we need is a little bit.
3,000 people donating $10 each gets us to our goal.
So, be upset about how this announcement was handled. Voice your opinions about it. But don't forget that we all love this game. That we want to see it succeed. It has so much potential, and I hope that we can all come together to help that potential be realized.
You post presumes that putting money into the competitive scene for this game directly makes progress towards the game having better success. I would disagree with that premise. The population of the game is small, a couple thousand consistent people, and only a small portion of that care about the competitive side. Most of the people who initially tried to make NS2 into a league game aren't here anymore, and many, MANY more people care much more about making the game play better than watching/contributing to a competitive scene.
I really like competitive gaming, I was cal-i in cs, played tournaments for quake two, I was on one of the best L4D teams in the world, but I just don't see NS2 as a game that's currently fit for a good comp scene and I think any UWE money that goes to flying/housing a small group of people for a tournament is money misdirected and I would say a lot of people probably feel the same. The game's competitive scene really only functions for the benefit of the people in it right now, it doesn't draw people in to the game, it doesn't draw money in to the game, and it's not big enough to catch the attention of big sponsors or venues. The game has just been changed too many times and the performance has been too bad for too many people for too long, and the only hope for the game is focusing on gaining new players and retaining them.
So for these reasons I'm annoyed about the deceptive nature of the announcement, but also that UWE funds are being put toward an investment that I really doubt will see any return for the rest of the player base.
What else can UWE do with NS2? You think there's some huge performance improvement in the pipelines they haven't announced or thought of yet? lol?
UWE have to stand behind any community endorsed endeavor, otherwise the same people posting about how it's all a waste of money would be posting it's all a waste of time since the devs don't even support it cheese whine etc.
You post presumes that putting money into the competitive scene for this game directly makes progress towards the game having better success. I would disagree with that premise. The population of the game is small, a couple thousand consistent people, and only a small portion of that care about the competitive side. Most of the people who initially tried to make NS2 into a league game aren't here anymore, and many, MANY more people care much more about making the game play better than watching/contributing to a competitive scene.
I really like competitive gaming, I was cal-i in cs, played tournaments for quake two, I was on one of the best L4D teams in the world, but I just don't see NS2 as a game that's currently fit for a good comp scene and I think any UWE money that goes to flying/housing a small group of people for a tournament is money misdirected and I would say a lot of people probably feel the same. The game's competitive scene really only functions for the benefit of the people in it right now, it doesn't draw people in to the game, it doesn't draw money in to the game, and it's not big enough to catch the attention of big sponsors or venues. The game has just been changed too many times and the performance has been too bad for too many people for too long, and the only hope for the game is focusing on gaining new players and retaining them.
So for these reasons I'm annoyed about the deceptive nature of the announcement, but also that UWE funds are being put toward an investment that I really doubt will see any return for the rest of the player base.
Reddog casted a premier division competitive game not too long ago. It was on twitch front page, and by the end of the evening there had been 123K unique viewers in total. Just to illustrate the advertising power of competitive games, thanks to dedicated casters. Events like these can bring in new players, which we can all agree on is a good thing.
I have supported by buying every tier below onos (was too late). I am NOT, however, a shareholder and I have no say in how UWE plans their business.
This announcement gives UWE several months to get sabot working and make further improvements to performance to put them in the best possible position to grow the player base and improve player retention.
Is my div3 team likely to make those finals? No. Is it still a good idea that makes me more optimistic about the future of ns2 for both pub and comp gaming? Absofuckinlutely.
Comments
I'm guessing this was directed at me, so let me enlighten you Mr. Competitive player.
REINFORCEMENT PROGRAM what purpose did this serve? That's right it was due to the development budget of NS2 drying up. Community plz donate money so we can continue the development and improvement of NS2 into the foreseeable future. Nothing at all wrong with this it was a great idea for UWE to generate more cash flow.
Now, there is two huge issues with this announcement. The first is it is tapping into the same money source that is for the reinforcement program which directly impacts the entire player base. The second even though Wassabi stated this is independent of UWE which it is not (Hugh/NS2 website being utilized to promote this) is that they stated during the broadcast that UWE would be financially supporting this but at a limited capacity (paying for the studio). Lets do some quick math 6 players per team 4 teams. How much does a plane ticket cost form the USA/ Australia to Europe? At least $1200 so at least half that budget alone is just for sending 12 people on a plane to Europe. So that points to how much $$$$$ UWE is willing to put up if they actually raise the 30K.
So now you are taking my reinforcement money and siphoning it to pay for some kids to have a paid vacation/gaming event to Europe. While that money was to be directly for the further development of NS2. Now you see why this annoys me.
Oh I'm sorry, but do you work in UWE's accounting department and have intimate knowledge of their budgets, cash flow projections, and access to their P&L's? You have a credible source that the money is coming from the reinforced donations?
No? Okay, then that just nullifies everything you just said. Thanks.
This sounds a lot less threatening when looking at you avatar.
@ Belacose: I totally agree with you, but you got some of it wrong: 30'000$ are raised over crowedsourcing to help organize the event and fly the people to germany, the rest serves as prize pool.
Now UWE is tapping 30'000$ from its own resources, without a doubt partwise from the Reinforced program to pay the location and frontpage takeover of Twitch Tv.
What resources? The continuing sales of soduku and ns2? This takes money away from NS2 in one way or another. They aren't going to risk taking a penny away from their next indie smash hit, and money certainly doesn't grow on trees.
you can't create a competitive game if your game isn't good enough to get a strong player base first
Instead we get this hype it was just like that entire video showing us 20 pixels of biodome in the corner. Trust me its the best map so far (IN MY OPINION if you plan on disagreeing here)
But i think instead of holding back on information you could try a new approach and INFORM us with upcoming things, post progress of builds or maps like discovery, i cant sit and wait a half year for a map or a HMG.
Would you say it's a big overreaction?
Why do people think this?
In any business, you budget money for various things. In a game development studio, it's things like development (artwork, animation, programmers), advertisement, and probably other stuff of which I'm not aware. Who are you to say that UWE is taking money out of its development pot (a.k.a. the Reinforcement donations) and putting it into its advertisement/marketing pot (helping fund the tournament)?
As far as I know, UWE is paying for the studio and front page Twitch. The crowdfunding is where the plane/train tickets, housing costs, transportation, and food comes in.
Please, get your facts straight before you start spreading rumors about where money is coming for this. And honestly, for a company that spent $550k on a content patch, $30,000 (if this is indeed the amount that they're putting into the studio/twitch) is not a great deal of money for reaching a market of ~200k people. If even 3,000 viewers of the tournament purchase NS2 at a discounted price of $10, guess what? They make their money back. More likely, they will make money from this event. And we have better systems in place now to retain those players. Tutorials, training videos, performance is better.
As for the way the announcement came out, I also believe it was over-hyped. I had prior knowledge that the tournament was going to be announced, and when I saw Hugh's video on Friday night, I thought he was going to be announcing something different. I thought, "Wow, this would be a good idea. Announce the tournament alongside some upcoming content, maybe match-making. That would be really cool." Unfortunately, that didn't occur.
Now, do all of us have a right to be upset? I think so. Hyping up the announcement with things like "It will impact every NS2 player", and "change the way the game is played in late 2013 and into 2014" was a HUGE mistake. A mistake that Hugh has almost certainly realized. Linking the Donation Page through a UWE hosted website, at least initially, was probably a mistake as well, since it reinforced the idea that some had that this was a UWE sponsored event and a UWE request for more money.
But it isn't.
This is the competitive community asking for help to put on an event. And all we need is a little bit.
It's entertainment for most of you. That's the biggest question I'm seeing... "why should we care?" Entertainment. Six+ hours of NS2 coverage. Interviews, recaps of the tournament, and most importantly matches. The top FOUR teams in the world competing with no ping or equipment discrepancies. You can watch the best teams, with the best shots and the best teamwork duel it out on a live stage, playing this game we all love.
And all we need is a little bit.
3,000 people donating $10 each gets us to our goal.
So, be upset about how this announcement was handled. Voice your opinions about it. But don't forget that we all love this game. That we want to see it succeed. It has so much potential, and I hope that we can all come together to help that potential be realized.
TL;DR It's not long, go read it.
I really like competitive gaming, I was cal-i in cs, played tournaments for quake two, I was on one of the best L4D teams in the world, but I just don't see NS2 as a game that's currently fit for a good comp scene and I think any UWE money that goes to flying/housing a small group of people for a tournament is money misdirected and I would say a lot of people probably feel the same. The game's competitive scene really only functions for the benefit of the people in it right now, it doesn't draw people in to the game, it doesn't draw money in to the game, and it's not big enough to catch the attention of big sponsors or venues. The game has just been changed too many times and the performance has been too bad for too many people for too long, and the only hope for the game is focusing on gaining new players and retaining them.
So for these reasons I'm annoyed about the deceptive nature of the announcement, but also that UWE funds are being put toward an investment that I really doubt will see any return for the rest of the player base.
UWE have to stand behind any community endorsed endeavor, otherwise the same people posting about how it's all a waste of money would be posting it's all a waste of time since the devs don't even support it cheese whine etc.
Reddog casted a premier division competitive game not too long ago. It was on twitch front page, and by the end of the evening there had been 123K unique viewers in total. Just to illustrate the advertising power of competitive games, thanks to dedicated casters. Events like these can bring in new players, which we can all agree on is a good thing.
This announcement gives UWE several months to get sabot working and make further improvements to performance to put them in the best possible position to grow the player base and improve player retention.
Is my div3 team likely to make those finals? No. Is it still a good idea that makes me more optimistic about the future of ns2 for both pub and comp gaming? Absofuckinlutely.