A Civil Discussion on why the Big Announcement was not so big....
Idleray
Join Date: 2012-10-04 Member: 161464Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2012-10-04 Member: 161464Members, Reinforced - Shadow
For me personally it was a let down and the reason is simple.
For me e-sports is as much as about hype as it is about the spectacle of top-level team play and display of skill. What's hype? It's the personalities, the rivalries, the tribalistic US vs THEM mindset between fans of different teams, fans of different countries.
I do not feel any hype for the NS2 e-sports scene right now. Sure there's a higher level of player skill and teamwork on offer, but the events on Twitch rarely get 800+ viewers. There is little to no scene in the Asian countries. The prize money on offer can't compete with the other big names (but this is the leastest gripe. The big ones we gotta work on is still growing the size of this community).
It all comes back to that perennial problem; you need to grow the player base, you need more community involvement, you need a REASON for people to keep coming back for more, and THEN they will go "oh hey look it's a tournament for this game that I am emotionally invested in, I better check it out!".
So really I am disappointed because the Big Announcement wasn't the BUS or the organised play system or some other persistent player stat-tracking gadgetry. The latter would've gotten me to play again earlier. This new tournament does not affect my enthusiasm levels.
For me e-sports is as much as about hype as it is about the spectacle of top-level team play and display of skill. What's hype? It's the personalities, the rivalries, the tribalistic US vs THEM mindset between fans of different teams, fans of different countries.
I do not feel any hype for the NS2 e-sports scene right now. Sure there's a higher level of player skill and teamwork on offer, but the events on Twitch rarely get 800+ viewers. There is little to no scene in the Asian countries. The prize money on offer can't compete with the other big names (but this is the leastest gripe. The big ones we gotta work on is still growing the size of this community).
It all comes back to that perennial problem; you need to grow the player base, you need more community involvement, you need a REASON for people to keep coming back for more, and THEN they will go "oh hey look it's a tournament for this game that I am emotionally invested in, I better check it out!".
So really I am disappointed because the Big Announcement wasn't the BUS or the organised play system or some other persistent player stat-tracking gadgetry. The latter would've gotten me to play again earlier. This new tournament does not affect my enthusiasm levels.
Comments
well, it was a MASSIVE DISAPPOINTMENT.
hugh jeremy and everyone else related to marketing of this should be ashamed that they put marketing needs and wants ahead of the players and the trust of the whole community.
...at least they will satisfy the competitive players and increase sales from the event but this whole "BIG ANNOUNCEMENT" is BULLSHIT.
THE NS2 community is NOT INTERESTED IN INDIVIDUALS STROKING THEIR EGOS with broadcasts and casting...we want a better bigger game!
...and we were led to expect something to that end.
thus, hugh jeremy's big announcement is a shame and broke a lot trust we had for him and his marketing sensibilities.
that said, i do enjoy watching a good game with professional commentary but i'm not paying for it and its not a big announcement.
I enjoy watching good comp games with nice casting.
I enjoyed watching it last time around... but I enjoy watching the non-localised event online also (blind etc,...). Not sure.-...
Granted this thing was apparently organised first by WasabiOne and other community leaders and then got approval from UWE.
No offense to Wasabi and all other guys actively involved in this, you guys do an amazing job at generating excitement for this community, but the problem is that this community isn't big enough, and the core reasons for that still lie with the game itself. The game needs to introduce social play systems that gel with UWEs motto "uniting the world through play". It needs a reason for people to come back that is beyond new in game weapons, gadgets and maps which only create a transient sense of newness. It needs to fully exploit that social aspect to get people committed.
PS. BTW joohoo please read the thread title. This is supposed to be a civilized discussion. Saying that the community leaders are stroking their egos is untrue, it is a base-less attack that disrespects the amount of time and commitment they put into the community.
"This will affect everyone who plays NS2" - more like the 24 people who are good enough to be on a top 4 comp team and one person who wins the raffle
"This has never been done before" - NS2 has already had two international tournaments, and there's already been a fundraiser event
"It will change the face of the NS2 community" - I don't see how this is even remotely true.
i will edit my original wording.
thank you.
ps. they still haven't delivered on the promise of posters and tshirts from the reinforcement program and now theyre asking us to raise more than twice as much money for an event we cant participate in?
You have a marketing budget, you use it for marketing.
You have a development budget, you use it for development.
You balance the two, set goals and budget for, lets say a year, and you keep those budgets in place so the different departments can actually function and plan ahead.
And this is why according to my limited understanding there seems little sense in spending money promoting NS2 esports, YET.
There's
1. Little in the way of stuff for players to purchase in-game, whether it be micro-transaction stuff like LOL or a subscription fee like WOW
2. Not enough numbers in the community to make the above work anyway
3. No other UWE titles.
So, I'm not saying tournaments are useless. they keep part of the community alive and busy, but does little to grow it and keep the base of casual players.
"quite often companies" NEVER DO THAT.
The product for this one is just more subtle and diverse:
-you get a hamburger
vs:
-you get a community spirit boost, something too watch, some 'social status' (i.e. badges), a feeling to belong / feel part of.. etc.
I am in the competitive community and I think this is a bad idea. I can't even imagine how disappointed people who don't care about the competitive scene are.
UWE: look at the badges of the people in this thread. These are your core audience. These are the people who had no problem throwing money at you for Reinforced.
Yours truly, Missed-the-whole-big-what-thing?
No one can make you guys be excited for this tournament, and its fair enough that you guys feel it was a letdown. I would say that the hype might have been read into a bit too much, but this event will affect the community positively. Trust.
But hey, if you guys aren't interested in supporting the tournament, you don't have to. But believe me, this is pretty different, just based on the fact that 4 teams are going, and its live semis and grand finals. Add in international teams and a huge front page position on twitch it will most likely be a fantastic event.
But you know what would be more positive? What would work synergistically, in tandem with something like this that leads to a lot of exposure for the game?
That would be a more a more welcoming gaming experience especially for new players. I understand that UWE has definitely made progress in this area, but it is my belief that ALL of their resources should be put into this. That anything and everything that helps player retention should be priority #1(as far as NS2 is concerned, obviously UWE could be focusing on their next game and I've no beef with that).
http://unknownworlds.com/games/
NS1, Zen of Sudoku.
And you prefer to join an alive game than a dead one. Also some competitive players from outside might be interested.
It kills me that totalbiscuit has yet to upload the NS2 footage from PAX, in my opinion he really needs to drop the "Hearthstone" bandwagon for a couple of days and do a WTF is NS2 video already since he obviously either missed out on the interview with UWE at PAX or simply put lost the footage.
Space, Year of our Lord 2561 (or somethin)
Sir,
Your unconstrucrivess is beyond words! No longer will I allow this gross ravaging of Lady UWE's honor.
I will meet you at noon for Tea and a duel to the death afterwards.
Bring the familiy.
Kind Regards,
CCTEE
That is fair enough. But this is barely anything to do with UWE. Apart from the funding if we raise 30k, UWE will be putting no resources into the organisation and development of this tournament. I hope that clears it up for a few people. UWE is a sponsor, not the host/organiser.
I want to see the same features in the game too, but it doesn't make me any less excited for a tournament like this.
but since it was promoted by UWE as something big that will change the face of the community for the sole purpose for us to watch the show and donate for the event...well, i'm still getting over the massive disappointment and anger at being misled by the UWE website and Jeremy Hughs post titled "Tune in For Something Big"
...an honest title would've been "Tune in For Something Big from the NS2 Community"
...but then they wouldnt have gotten as many donations.
great work hugh, you did what you wanted!
This in my opinion is the most important bit, moreso even than expanding the playerbase.
UW's fatal flaw was letting their hardcore base, alpha preorders, ns1 vets, and all fanboys slip through their fingers by ignoring performance and simple necessities (such as a functional key binding system). With it's steeper learning curve NS isn't in need of exposure to new players, it needs to be enjoyable to keep those new players through the learning process.
"It will change the face of the NS2 community" - I don't see how this is even remotely true. <<<<
How? How in any way does this affect most players ?
Another feelgood event funded by players that will involve no more than 200 players. (And I think that's a high guess)
-_-
This tournament isn't instead of those things. It's an independently run tournament.
He is actually doing them a favor in particular, because he likes Hugh. Unlike other PAX videos, he wanted to record a commentary for NS2 later on instead of using the one live from the show. And he is waiting with the video until a patch fixed the performance issues that arose after the Reinforced update.
While TB can give a big popularity boost to games, he's like a card that you need to play at the right time to make the most of it. You need to make sure that the game is in a top condition so that it can actually draw people in with the new popularity instead of losing them right away due to bad first impressions.
Performance is one major thing that influences first impressions. Getting stomped by veterans is another thing, though, so ideally he would not release the floodgates until some kind of matchmaking system is in place that prevents stacked roflstomps against rookie teams. Because that is exactly what killed SMNC after TB promoted it.
On the left side 4 people trying to tell us how awesome this tournament going to be and on the right side the reactions.
In times with 800 players peak and top teams disbanding (duplex, archea, godar,..) this is the big event every one is waiting for?
NO
Why the hell should i pay some € to see the the usual suspects in cologne?
@UWE
In your marketing blabla you try to tell the people "Hey, be part of this. Join a team, you can be in cologne"
Cmon, dont tell me you believe in that.
My predictions for the finals: Snails vs Saunamen
Dare I ask for a 'source' on this?
The NS2 esports experiment should clearly be over, please give it up. There aren't enough players to care.