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Also depends on the room. Cargo on Veil is a nightmare vs. jetpackers. Run up the boxes to get the rine grenading the hive AANND... oh what? He's on the other boxes now, and his JP is fully refuelled. Like SamusDroid and others have said, the regen needs to be a bit slower. IMO the jetpack should be mainly used to maneuver for a short period when in combat, and if you can't kill them before you run out of fuel... well you probably deserve to die then.
They'll never be unless the biomass requirement is reduced to 4-5 and they're given their own button to be used in combat instead of being assigned to the build menu. Plus everything breaks them, nades, flamer, GL, dunno if they even affect exo. They're really not relevant right now.
Yep, web's were a huge counter to jps in NS1, but the current requirements are so silly they are never used.
If web's requirements were reduced and made more intuitive to use, there would be a lot less god-mode solo jps.
Personally I'd like to see them have their own weapon slot, and behave like clogs (max placeable, say 3, and no res cost. Really need to be available with 2 hives, 4-6 biomass.
Jetpacks are in a pretty good place right now and are absolutely lethal in the right hands. The only thing that could or should be changed is the regen rate of the fuel while in the air. Possibly reduce it by 20%, while having full regen when touching the ground.
As someone mentioned somewhere before, parasite doesn't have much of a use late game (especially if aura is up). Perhaps having parasite slowing a JP marine by 10% for 3 seconds.
Otherwise I think JPs are in a good spot. Perhaps it's changes that are needed for aliens against them.
Jetpacks are in a pretty good place right now and are absolutely lethal in the right hands. The only thing that could or should be changed is the regen rate of the fuel while in the air. Possibly reduce it by 20%, while having full regen when touching the ground.
As someone mentioned somewhere before, parasite doesn't have much of a use late game (especially if aura is up). Perhaps having parasite slowing a JP marine by 10% for 3 seconds.
Otherwise I think JPs are in a good spot. Perhaps it's changes that are needed for aliens against them.
What makes them seem so powerful is the that the change coincided with the change to fades' energy usage. Fades have commonly been one of the best counters to sg+jetpack because of their ability to take a sg blast combined with blink in the air, but the new energy usage combined with the decreased boost from blink makes it that much harder to fight the new jetpacks.
Since they buffed them a couple of patches ago, they're kind OP right now IMO. That's my feeling anyway. However, I did not enjoy them being total crap before they were buffed. A SMALL decrease in the ability to stay in the air would be good.
Whining about not being able to kill jetpackers with an onos is a bit funny though, I'll give you that. If you haven't figured it out, it's not your role to kill jetpackers with an onos.
Since they buffed them a couple of patches ago, they're kind OP right now IMO. That's my feeling anyway. However, I did not enjoy them being total crap before they were buffed. A SMALL decrease in the ability to stay in the air would be good.
Whining about not being able to kill jetpackers with an onos is a bit funny though, I'll give you that. If you haven't figured it out, it's not your role to kill jetpackers with an onos.
Sorry, where did I whine about not being able to kill a jetpacker with an Onos? Can no one read?
Please nerf teamwork, map control and upgrades as it makes my 1 hive/25 minute onos unable to kill everything in sight without taking any damage.
Hi, my name is Roo and I like to miss the point.
Edit: Just because you failed to provide an accurate counter I shouldn't lower myself. Instead, here: "Please nerf teamwork, map control and upgrades" could be used as a (pathetic) argument against any nerf in the game, past present or future and completely misses the point. It's almost as if you thought I said, "I cannot kill everything easily as an Onos so please nerf anything that contravenes that" which is utterly asinine. But it was an amusing comment. Right? Right? lols
The 17:1 ratio of dislikes to likes in your op speaks for how your suggestion has been received. Combinations of lifeforms working together are required to take down a jp/sg (38 res assuming a welder), much like what is required to take down a good fade. Delaying the enemy's resource flow is a central part of this game. Jp/sg plus upgrades represents a significant res expenditure, and takes considerable time to research. Instead of nerfing the jp, how about a marginal buff to the emasculated onos, or perhaps a slight boost to the higher biomass health bonus? There are better ways to address the problem that you perceive (late game Marines are powerful, but they have to earn it).
I got the point you were making, I'm afraid it just wasn't a valid one, as the response to your op suggests.
I think the response to my OP was due to my laziness in making myself clear (as well as the stupidity of the masses which never ceases to amaze - some idiot thought I was saying I should be able to kill jetpackers with the Onos; which you sort of can but he said it like I thought i should be able to do it constantly).
I would be in favour of allowing Fades to either go a bit faster or at least have the energy requirements decreased, though. The problem is that I either lerk and counter the jetpackers to an extent (very difficult when several marines with SGs as risking the bite or spore is too much) and then have an ineffective Onos (most people don;t know when to run away as the Onos so it's usually 60 res thrown away) or I go Onos and have ineffective assistance. It could be argued it's a fault of a lack of teamwork over the game mechanics but one could use this argument to explain anything. Either way perhaps my OP should be amended to, "have the jetpack have a more accessible counter". As someone said, JP is often easy mode much in the same way as pre build 250 Fade was.
It's quite tiring to have a marine be able to follow you around the entire map as an onos, or to have them fly in the air for 15 seconds straight - for 15 res with a 200dmg machine being blasted into your face.
It's quite tiring to have a marine be able to follow you around the entire map as an onos, or to have them fly in the air for 15 seconds straight - for 15 res with a 200dmg machine being blasted into your face.
What makes them seem so powerful is the that the change coincided with the change to fades' energy usage. Fades have commonly been one of the best counters to sg+jetpack because of their ability to take a sg blast combined with blink in the air, but the new energy usage combined with the decreased boost from blink makes it that much harder to fight the new jetpacks.
Again, this is why I said some changes would more likely be needed to be made to aliens than changing the jetpack again, which is in a pretty good spot. This is going back into the nerfed fades right now. Fades needed to be nerfed, however I wondered why they increased the initial blink cost with their decreased acceleration and ability to hold momentum, along with the fact they increased the swipe cost. Getting rid of this blink cost would be a slight buff to fades that is needed. Good JPers will still counter fades easily enough if that change was made.
How about
bring back the FOCUS so veils become more popular counter for the jps. Also introduce the ha/exo > focus fades > jps > onos > ha/exo lategame plan back
It's quite tiring to have a marine be able to follow you around the entire map as an onos, or to have them fly in the air for 15 seconds straight - for 15 res with a 200dmg machine being blasted into your face.
lol. Again, this is a comment about the jetpack fuel lasting too long. Could you point out where I mentioned the Onos killing the marine? Is English your first language?
It's quite tiring to have a marine be able to follow you around the entire map as an onos, or to have them fly in the air for 15 seconds straight - for 15 res with a 200dmg machine being blasted into your face.
lol. Again, this is a comment about the jetpack fuel lasting too long. Could you point out where I mentioned the Onos killing the marine? Is English your first language?
Dude calm down, it's implied. Your running for your life, we all assume it's because you attacked and were forced to retreat. If your forced to retreat its because you couldn't kill your target ie the JP. In addition everyone's personal experience with onos vs JP aids in this assumption.
The better way to go about this IMO would be to ask 3 questions.
1. Should JP fuel/regen be buffed? (Click awesome)
Or
2. Should JP fuel/regen be nerfed? (Click dislike)
Or
3. Should JP fuel/regen be left alone? (Click like)
From these you could generate a proper distribution to find the best balance.
My expected results currently would look like this
1. 5%
2. 40%
3. 55%
Assuming that balance isn't a single hard number but a small range of acceptible numbers, I would contend that with these results we are at the upper limit of that range. From this I would argue to nerf JP a-wee-bit to place it more centered in that range.
How about
bring back the FOCUS so veils become more popular counter for the jps. Also introduce the ha/exo > focus fades > jps > onos > ha/exo lategame plan back
Ahhh the good old days where things were just better than things, not counters for things
It's quite tiring to have a marine be able to follow you around the entire map as an onos, or to have them fly in the air for 15 seconds straight - for 15 res with a 200dmg machine being blasted into your face.
lol. Again, this is a comment about the jetpack fuel lasting too long. Could you point out where I mentioned the Onos killing the marine? Is English your first language?
Dude calm down, it's implied. Your running for your life, we all assume it's because you attacked and were forced to retreat. If your forced to retreat its because you couldn't kill your target ie the JP. In addition everyone's personal experience with onos vs JP aids in this assumption.
The better way to go about this IMO would be to ask 3 questions.
1. Should JP fuel/regen be buffed? (Click awesome)
Or
2. Should JP fuel/regen be nerfed? (Click dislike)
Or
3. Should JP fuel/regen be left alone? (Click like)
From these you could generate a proper distribution to find the best balance.
My expected results currently would look like this
1. 5%
2. 40%
3. 55%
Assuming that balance isn't a single hard number but a small range of acceptible numbers, I would contend that with these results we are at the upper limit of that range. From this I would argue to nerf JP a-wee-bit to place it more centered in that range.
Ideal results would be.
1. 13%
2. 13%
3. 64%
Agree with everything you said apart from your initial paragraph. I'm confused as to why you think it was implied that I attacked the jetpacker - I did not. I actually killed an exo in hub and had around 90% of my health at the end (he was already weak and he was looking the other way). The bonewall from my commander should have been better but the JPer easily followed me the whole way and rinsed me by ET. It's really just the overall point. Sometimes I like trying to res starve the marines by picking them off (any lifeform) and hitting RTs simultaneously but in public games (I can only speak as a spec for comp as I play at erratic times I cannot join a team and be there reliably) it's so often the death of everything on your team - jetpacks.
Comments
Yep, web's were a huge counter to jps in NS1, but the current requirements are so silly they are never used.
If web's requirements were reduced and made more intuitive to use, there would be a lot less god-mode solo jps.
Personally I'd like to see them have their own weapon slot, and behave like clogs (max placeable, say 3, and no res cost. Really need to be available with 2 hives, 4-6 biomass.
As someone mentioned somewhere before, parasite doesn't have much of a use late game (especially if aura is up). Perhaps having parasite slowing a JP marine by 10% for 3 seconds.
Otherwise I think JPs are in a good spot. Perhaps it's changes that are needed for aliens against them.
What makes them seem so powerful is the that the change coincided with the change to fades' energy usage. Fades have commonly been one of the best counters to sg+jetpack because of their ability to take a sg blast combined with blink in the air, but the new energy usage combined with the decreased boost from blink makes it that much harder to fight the new jetpacks.
Whining about not being able to kill jetpackers with an onos is a bit funny though, I'll give you that. If you haven't figured it out, it's not your role to kill jetpackers with an onos.
Sorry, where did I whine about not being able to kill a jetpacker with an Onos? Can no one read?
I think the response to my OP was due to my laziness in making myself clear (as well as the stupidity of the masses which never ceases to amaze - some idiot thought I was saying I should be able to kill jetpackers with the Onos; which you sort of can but he said it like I thought i should be able to do it constantly).
I would be in favour of allowing Fades to either go a bit faster or at least have the energy requirements decreased, though. The problem is that I either lerk and counter the jetpackers to an extent (very difficult when several marines with SGs as risking the bite or spore is too much) and then have an ineffective Onos (most people don;t know when to run away as the Onos so it's usually 60 res thrown away) or I go Onos and have ineffective assistance. It could be argued it's a fault of a lack of teamwork over the game mechanics but one could use this argument to explain anything. Either way perhaps my OP should be amended to, "have the jetpack have a more accessible counter". As someone said, JP is often easy mode much in the same way as pre build 250 Fade was.
Here:
Those are far from being the same thing.
Again, this is why I said some changes would more likely be needed to be made to aliens than changing the jetpack again, which is in a pretty good spot. This is going back into the nerfed fades right now. Fades needed to be nerfed, however I wondered why they increased the initial blink cost with their decreased acceleration and ability to hold momentum, along with the fact they increased the swipe cost. Getting rid of this blink cost would be a slight buff to fades that is needed. Good JPers will still counter fades easily enough if that change was made.
bring back the FOCUS so veils become more popular counter for the jps. Also introduce the ha/exo > focus fades > jps > onos > ha/exo lategame plan back
lol. Again, this is a comment about the jetpack fuel lasting too long. Could you point out where I mentioned the Onos killing the marine? Is English your first language?
Dude calm down, it's implied. Your running for your life, we all assume it's because you attacked and were forced to retreat. If your forced to retreat its because you couldn't kill your target ie the JP. In addition everyone's personal experience with onos vs JP aids in this assumption.
The better way to go about this IMO would be to ask 3 questions.
1. Should JP fuel/regen be buffed? (Click awesome)
Or
2. Should JP fuel/regen be nerfed? (Click dislike)
Or
3. Should JP fuel/regen be left alone? (Click like)
From these you could generate a proper distribution to find the best balance.
My expected results currently would look like this
1. 5%
2. 40%
3. 55%
Assuming that balance isn't a single hard number but a small range of acceptible numbers, I would contend that with these results we are at the upper limit of that range. From this I would argue to nerf JP a-wee-bit to place it more centered in that range.
Ideal results would be.
1. 13%
2. 13%
3. 64%
Ahhh the good old days where things were just better than things, not counters for things
And he's right. They were just nerfed with this jumping first bullshit
By double tapping jump ( Street fighter way, cf http://sf4answers.com/questions/11/p-linking-and-double-tapping ) you can actually jet in vents.
Completely dependent on the vent.
Increasing the jerk factor on these forums would take it to dangerously high levels...
Agree with everything you said apart from your initial paragraph. I'm confused as to why you think it was implied that I attacked the jetpacker - I did not. I actually killed an exo in hub and had around 90% of my health at the end (he was already weak and he was looking the other way). The bonewall from my commander should have been better but the JPer easily followed me the whole way and rinsed me by ET. It's really just the overall point. Sometimes I like trying to res starve the marines by picking them off (any lifeform) and hitting RTs simultaneously but in public games (I can only speak as a spec for comp as I play at erratic times I cannot join a team and be there reliably) it's so often the death of everything on your team - jetpacks.